More Claims of MacBook Pro Adopting MacBook Air Form Factor in 2012 Redesign

[Blues003]

reasonable analysis. I pray we get a SSD + Platter HDD hybrid like the iMac's. SSD for OS X + Apps, HDD for data storage. Optical drive is out. Retina display in. And discrete graphics. Please let there be discrete graphics.

I doubt we'll see dGPUs on the 13". The space of the OD could be filled with battery, thus allowing higher voltage and higher performance, both CPU and GPU wise. A dGPU would still be best though, no doubt.

As for the SSD - HDD combo... it's a good thing to think about. Again, I'm pessimistic. But let's pray.

How about a bigger gap between the Pro and the consumer line?
Apple can stop producing 13" MBPros and enhance the 15" and 17", even making them more pricey.
It's about what the executives decide it's better to do. There isn't a clear logic to follow, otherwise everyone would start making the "next big thing".
To me this is to decide: a Pro line up, defenitely aimed at the real Pros (read: more expensive machines), or another approach in linking consumer and Pro segments.
The latter sounds more likely to me, and in this logic we won't see SSDs built in nor more advanced graphics.

Everything you said is right: Apple follows that logic. You have the MBP for pro mobility and MBA for consumer mobility, just like you have the Mac Mini and low-end iMac for consumer desktop, and higher-end iMacs and Mac Pro for pro desktop. Still, that doesn't mean they can't enhance the 13" as well?

 

[AidenShaw]

for those who hope for ethernet still..you can always buy

Image

Is that the new USB 3.0 Ethernet dongle that can run at gigabit Ethernet speed, or the old crippled USB 2.0 dongle?

 

[KPOM]

I'm still deciding which is the better option for me, but would like your honest opinion on whether I should buy my new laptop next month, or wait till my next trip back (probably September) to buy the new generation. A 15" air would complete me. I think my current laptop could probably hold out until September but it'll be close... This is quite the dilemma

The new models will have Ivy Bridge CPUs, which will have much better graphics and possibly better battery life. They will also likely support USB 3.0, since that will be built into the chip sets. If you are looking to hold onto it for a while, you might be better off waiting until the new models are released.

 

[Santabean2000]

reasonable analysis. I pray we get a SSD + Platter HDD hybrid like the iMac's. SSD for OS X + Apps, HDD for data storage. Optical drive is out. Retina display in. And discrete graphics. Please let there be discrete graphics.

I think this is a reasonable bet - SSD/HDD

Really want to keep ethernet (no USB ethernet adapter is not fast enough to do gigabit properly and Thunderbolt display is expensive and better not to need to get another adapter), replaceable 2.5" hard drive and upgradeable memory. If Apple doesn't allow user upgrades of memory that will be really bad. So often Macs can handle more RAM than Apple offers and being able to upgrade extends the usefulness of a Mac. 2.5" hard drives also allow using of HDDs or SSDs (whichever someone prefers).

Would like internal optical drive as well, but Apple wants people to get everything through their low quality iTunes Store

USB 3 Ethernet adapter faster?

 

[Frozzie]

It is a disaster if all MacBooks are thin. The performance compromise will be inevitable - even if they manage to fit into design, you can always say if the size was bigger there would have been increase in performance.

And let's face it - it is not necessary to have macbook pro thinner than it is now. The fact that you are carrying it means pro users won't mind how heavy it is anyway, well at least if they stick to current weight.

 

[KPOM]

So - as you seem to have fond inside knowledge on Win8ARM - despite the developer preview not being live - care to elaborate if it's worth the wait for a real souped up ARM-based super-tablet and then get a Win8 desktop to rip the Blus I love without quality loss?

Man - I'm talkin 48kHz PCM sound. Can't live without it on several music Blus I have.

Microsoft has made several announcements about Windows 8 ARM. Here is one.

As for Blu-Ray, my comments are based on Apple's actions over the past 4 years. They have removed optical drives from the Mac Mini, and the MacBook Air never had them. There is no indication whatsoever that they will reverse course and add Blu-Ray support, particularly with all the rumors of an Apple TV. It's all about promoting iTunes, and not a Sony-driven technology like Blu-Ray.

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It is pretty obvious that Apple is going to screw us all when it comes to SSD storage on the new Macbook "Air". 256GB is the maximum storage, but I think Apple is going to give all the new Macbook user free iCloud storage service of 50GB+.

Also, no one mentioned anything about USB 3.0 ports. I wouldn't want to stuck with TB and USB 2.0 when all the cheaper peripheral in the WinPC world will be moving to USB 3.0 standard.

USB 3.0 will be a standard part of the Ivy Bridge chipset. It is coming. In 2011, adding it would have required adding a separate chip. Since they are promoting Thunderbolt, they made the decision to use that space to add the Thunderbolt controller.

 

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The issue is that MBPs are a professional machine used across the board in creative industries. If they truly go towards the air that will mean fumbing down the power, as they did with FCP x, which in reality follows apples same path of a prosumer shift, including getting rid of the Mac Pros.

 

[icanhazapple]

I doubt we'll see dGPUs on the 13". The space of the OD could be filled with battery, thus allowing higher voltage and higher performance, both CPU and GPU wise. A dGPU would still be best though, no doubt.

As for the SSD - HDD combo... it's a good thing to think about. Again, I'm pessimistic. But let's pray.



Everything you said is right: Apple follows that logic. You have the MBP for pro mobility and MBA for consumer mobility, just like you have the Mac Mini and low-end iMac for consumer desktop, and higher-end iMacs and Mac Pro for pro desktop. Still, that doesn't mean they can't enhance the 13" as well?

and the more I think about it - do consumers need a 15" computer? No. Most home users would prefer the size/portability of a 13". 15" is nice, but unless you're working with media/graphics, you really don't need it if you're doing simple web browsing/email/office productivity work.

And therein lies the rub - extra screen size is for media/software development. You're going to power this with a Intel 4000 series integrated GPU? No way. Please no. And a 256GB SSD isn't enough for everything, not in the era of 100GB Dropbox accounts. I'd be perfectly content with a 120GB Intel 520 series SSD and a 320GB 5400PM platter.

I just hope someone at Apple recognizes this and doesn't screw it up trying to emulate Steve's 'less is more' zen tendencies.

Even he recognized that you need the right tool for the job.

 

[Blues003]

and the more I think about it - do consumers need a 15" computer? No. Most home users would prefer the size/portability of a 13". 15" is nice, but unless you're working with media/graphics, you really don't need it if you're doing simple web browsing/email/office productivity work.

And therein lies the rub - extra screen size is for media/software development. You're going to power this with a Intel 4000 series integrated GPU? No way. Please no. And a 256GB SSD isn't enough for everything, not in the era of 100GB Dropbox accounts. I'd be perfectly content with a 120GB Intel 520 series SSD and a 320GB 5400PM platter.

I just hope someone at Apple recognizes this and doesn't screw it up trying to emulate Steve's 'less is more' zen tendencies.

Even he recognized that you need the right tool for the job.

To be quite honest, I have no problem with a 15" MBA (read: consumer) laptop. What I am against (just like you are, from what I understood) is the elimination of the 13" MBP (read: pro). I too hope they don't screw this up.

 

[MacRazySwe]

If Apple manages to develop a 15" MacBook Air with upgradeable RAM, dedicated graphics, Retina display, minimum 256GB SSD (also upgradeable) and processing power above todays 15" MBP, I'd be willing to retire my old 2007 MBP Santa Rosa. I do not value the ODD above the unnecessary weight and thickness which could be reduced by removing it, even if it is my primary machine at my dad's place.

To be honest though, I have a hard time imagining that Apple will be able to pull all of this off. My bet is that we will see the introduction of a 15" MacBook Air (with 13" Air functionality, more or less. Still a bit restricted that is) as well as redesigned MacBook Pro's which will still be the top of the line notebook, with top of the line features and performance, however in a redesigned, smaller and lighter case.

 

[Marzzz]

It is a disaster if all MacBooks are thin. The performance compromise will be inevitable - even if they manage to fit into design, you can always say if the size was bigger there would have been increase in performance.

And let's face it - it is not necessary to have macbook pro thinner than it is now. The fact that you are carrying it means pro users won't mind how heavy it is anyway, well at least if they stick to current weight.

I can see the 15" and 17" having a thicker but still wedge-like shape similar to the MBA's, not necessarily as thin or like a guillotine. Definitely enough to differentiate it from the current unibody MBP. My current machine is a 1st gen unibody, time for the "Tick" after all those "tocks!"

 

[Saturn1217]

So many angry people

Wow! This thread has really brought out the passion in the macrumors community!

I am a bit torn by these rumors (and let's all remember that they are just rumors at this time)

On the one hand, I love the idea of lighter smaller computers. On the other, like many of you I am very concerned that Apple will effectively destroy the macbook pro line I've grown to love.

I do think that optical drives will disappear in the next update (at least for these upgraded thinner versions of the MBP). I don't necessarily agree with this although personally I wouldn't mind ditching the optical drive. I know for example that my parents and my sister would never be ok with losing an optical drive on their primary computer. BUT Apple did remove the OD from the Mini (most pointless decision ever) so its not hard to imagine them removing it from laptops where it actually does make sense at least in some circumstances.

I just hope that if they remove all the ports save for thunderbolt/usb (3!!!) that they actually start providing thunderbolt to ethernet/firewire adaptors. I use my usb ports way too often to have them taken up by a port such as ethernet that will be constantly in use (while I'm at work anyway). I still don't understand why Apple hasn't come out with thunderbolt to ethernet adaptors but hopefully if their going to make all laptops Air like these adaptors are coming. (of course ideally the ethernet port would remain built in but I'm just trying to be realistic).

I also really hope that in the larger systems (and hopefully somehow in the next 13inch MBA) Ram can remain upgradable. Easy ram and storage upgrades were a big feature of the unibody design when Apple first released it so I would be a little surprised if they completely reversed this.

In my dream fantasy world Apple will keep the 13inch MBP, make it just a little bit lighter (4.0lbs) and give it quality specs and an antiglare screen...But I might be able to make due with a reasonably light (hopefully 4.0lbs) 15inch MBAish machine that doesn't give up too much expandability...

 

[kd5hsm]

Concerns

I do understand the ODD going away. I could get by with an external one, but it would drive me loopy a lot. I know that Apple is pretty well against blu-ray, largely because they're wanting to drop optical as it is, so why invest in BR. The Internet speeds and data caps in my area don't really make digital download options feasible for downloading lots of HD video. Netflix / Apple Store rentals are not really great if you're on a trip and don't have Internet access.

My big concerns are the SSD not being large enough yet. All my ripped movies take up more than the 250G drives that come on the MBA. The whole point of ripping my movies and putting them on my HD is so I don't have to lug around a DVD case, so why do should I have to lug around an external HD?

I'm not real hot on the ethernet going away. People forget that when your wireless network starts going crazy, you gotta plug into the thing to get it working. I suppose there will be usb-ether adapters out there, but I'd really prefer it built in. It's like having to use the adapter to get to HDMI, not a major deal breaker, but just annoying.

I guess my only major concern is storage space, mainly that the sizes I want for storage are not available in SSD or just too friggin expensive.

 

[Cicatrix]

I can see the 15" and 17" having a thicker but still wedge-like shape similar to the MBA's, not necessarily as thin or like a guillotine. Definitely enough to differentiate it from the current unibody MBP. My current machine is a 1st gen unibody, time for the "Tick" after all those "tocks!"

NO, NO, NO. I don't want a wedge. I want it thin all the way around nice, and even.

 

[andrewsd]

CD's

I still enjoy and prefer to burn disc for playback in my cars disc player. call me
'old fashion" I guess Cd's are the records of my generation and I guess 8 tracks/tapes where the bridge between them to a point. (I'm only 26) I'd love to have a MacBook air like 15" but I'd have a separate burner for sure but also I don't see the whole MacBook line to go that way. I am on year 4 of my current MacBook and I'm going for a good, productive 6 years out of it and I'm sure that won't be a problem. My next one will be a 15" and depending on my needs either a "pro" or "air". At the moment I have access to a newer model 17" pro for my of my heavy lifting but I just really can't see them getting rid of the "PRO'S". Altogether as many others have stated that they aren't really that thick or heavy to begin with BUT Apple has sort of gone away with so called "PRO'S" so we will see.

 

[calderone]

As if any one cares, I will add my two cents.


- Optical: Don't care. I took mine out in favor of a second SSD. If Apple does make this move, it would be in their best interest to bring down the price of the external. Say $49.

The biggest annoyance here would be the inability to put in a second drive.

- Form factor: I don't like wedges unless they are cheese.

- Ports: This will annoy me. While I do have a Thunderbolt display, having these ports out in the field would be ideal.

- Upgradability: This is where it is going to hurt. My current 15" MBP is pretty loaded. I would never buy an iMac. I am done with Mac Pros. The Mini rocks it out as my server, but I still want portability. The MacBook Pro of today is the only machine from Apple that fits what I want.

The inability to go to 16GB, assuming they follow the model of the current MacBook Air would make this a done deal for me.

- Power: I think we can assume some of the internals will take a hit. Kiss dedicated graphics goodbye.

All in all, if true, I don't like this. I can only hope they keep the 15" and 17" MBP, while offering 13" and 15" MBAs. Possibly dropping the 13" MBP. Hell, if they kept the 17" MBP only, I would consider it when I upgrade.

If they don't keep something in the lineup that offers: ports, upgradability and at least the power offered today, I won't be happy.

 

[fabianjj]

The Expresscard slot should be functionally replaced by thunderbolt. A few vendors already sell (or plan to soon) external PCIe boxes connected via TB. Not quite as elegant as a simple eSata Expresscard, but you'd have an external box that can hold an eSata PCIe card (or multiple drives even if more than one port).

Seems a bit strange to complain about possibly losing the Expresscard slot for the sake of it's "elegance" when using an eSata card. Someone is bound to make a nice litte TB-eSata adapter that will do the trick. If eSata is so important, why not buy a computer that actually has eSata? Since that is an option, I think calling any other solution "elegant" seems ludicrous.

 

[Krazy Bill]

So why is it then that Air is the best selling mac on the marketplace and fueled the rise in sales last year?

Thanks for basically agreeing with me.

It's the fact the Air is so popular that I fear the "pro" will also go along the same path. Much more than people here are thinking. Just like the Air's who cater to non-power users, the new MBP's will be presented as a "take it or leave it" device with only Apple sanctioned upgrades. (And puny ones at that).

Apple has found it's niche in the PC arena and I guess I'm no longer in it. If they are headed down this sealed, salad-dicer style path merely for the sake of "sleek and light"... my next laptop/OS experience won't be theirs. And that's too bad because I'll miss their engineering quality.

Bottom line... whatever the next iteration of new MacBooks becomes, let me get inside it to upgrade memory and storage capacity and I'd reconsider. Anything less is a deal breaker.

 

[KPOM]

- Upgradability: This is where it is going to hurt. My current 15" MBP is pretty loaded. I would never buy an iMac. I am done with Mac Pros. The Mini rocks it out as my server, but I still want portability. The MacBook Pro of today is the only machine from Apple that fits what I want.

The inability to go to 16GB, assuming they follow the model of the current MacBook Air would make this a done deal for me.

I don't think that the 15" and 17" models are going to have the same processors as the 13" model. The 13" Pro and 13" Air is a better comparison. For the most part, they are highly comparable. The 1.8GHz i7 is about 90% as fast as the 2.4GHz i5 that is in the base 13" Pro. I can see tolerating a larger form factor because of a need for features, but the footprint, keyboard, and screen size of the 13" Air is identical to the 13" Pro. The 13" Air actually has a higher resolution screen (though less color gamut) than the 13" Pro. From a usability standpoint, they are virtually identical. The Air is more portable to carry around, though.

The whole point of Ivy Bridge and Haswell is that Intel is finally taking power consumption seriously. They want 17W TDP to be mainstream, rather than "low voltage." Intel has committed to this, so we'll see the trend everywhere, not just from Apple.

- Power: I think we can assume some of the internals will take a hit. Kiss dedicated graphics goodbye.
.

I don't think that will be the case on the 15" and 17" models. Just because the case would be thinner doesn't mean the logic board would be any smaller. Most of the extra thickness is to accommodate the optical drive.

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Who here thinks the current MBP needs to be slimmed down? I actually prefer the size and weight of my 2011 13" MBP over a 13" MBA. If anything, I would like Apple to start using reversed dome shaped keys like ThinkPad Edge laptops use.

I'm not sure why anyone would prefer the size and weight of the 13" MacBook Pro over the 13" MacBook Air. It weighs 50% more and doesn't have much to show for it (a Firewire 800 port, an optical drive, and a slightly faster processor).

 

[Blues003]

I'm not sure why anyone would prefer the size and weight of the 13" MacBook Pro over the 13" MacBook Air. It weighs 50% more and doesn't have much to show for it (a Firewire 800 port, an optical drive, and a slightly faster processor).

Also more storage space, faster GPU, better battery life and better base RAM.

If Apple phases out the 13" MBP, I'll phase me out of Apple.

 

[pmz]

Thanks for basically agreeing with me.

It's the fact the Air is so popular that I fear the "pro" will also go along the same path. Much more than people here are thinking. Just like the Air's who cater to non-power users, the new MBP's will be presented as a "take it or leave it" device with only Apple sanctioned upgrades. (And puny ones at that).

Apple has found it's niche in the PC arena and I guess I'm no longer in it. If they are headed down this sealed, salad-dicer style path merely for the sake of "sleek and light"... my next laptop/OS experience won't be theirs. And that's too bad because I'll miss their engineering quality.

Bottom line... whatever the next iteration of new MacBooks becomes, let me get inside it to upgrade memory and storage capacity and I'd reconsider. Anything less is a deal breaker.

You don't have much foresight or vision. Common sense seems to be lacking a bit too.

Do you HONESTLY believe that Apple is going to assassinate its MacBookPro line just to make bigger MacBookAir?

Apple could have made a 15" MacBook Air years ago, if they wanted to. They've taken a long time to approach it, and this is why. They want it to replace the 15" MacBook Pro, without compromising everything their customers expect from the MacBook Pro. I don't see how this is difficult for anyone to understand.

 

[calderone]

I don't think that the 15" and 17" models are going to have the same processors as the 13" model. The 13" Pro and 13" Air is a better comparison. For the most part, they are highly comparable. The 1.8GHz i7 is about 90% as fast as the 2.4GHz i5 that is in the base 13" Pro.

The whole point of Ivy Bridge and Haswell is that Intel is finally taking power consumption seriously. They want 17W TDP to be mainstream, rather than "low voltage." Intel has committed to this, so we'll see the trend everywhere, not just from Apple.

Of course the won't have the same processors. I am also absolutely fine with the trends in power consumption and dynamic clocks. The problem I have is that higher end processors are going to be ignored to fit into these models.

I don't think that will be the case on the 15" and 17" models. Just because the case would be thinner doesn't mean the logic board would be any smaller. Most of the extra thickness is to accommodate the optical drive.

No, but the problem is can they jam those packages in there while maintaining decent temperatures? They haven't done it with the Air as of yet (dedicated graphics).

We know this much: The Air has historically been fitted with less power hungry components. That in and of itself is fine, which means a reduction in the maximum possible performance attainable.

I don't want 90% of what my 15" can do, I want 100% and I want to be able to connect a multitude of devices and upgrade my RAM to 16GB+ (not at Apple prices and on my own terms).

 

[InuNacho]

It is a disaster if all MacBooks are thin. The performance compromise will be inevitable - even if they manage to fit into design, you can always say if the size was bigger there would have been increase in performance.

And let's face it - it is not necessary to have macbook pro thinner than it is now. The fact that you are carrying it means pro users won't mind how heavy it is anyway, well at least if they stick to current weight.

I too am worried that a smaller form factor would lead to decreased performance or what I'm more worried about is the removal of ports. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple decided to remove the FW800, ethernet, and audio in saying that you don't need them and theres always a new shiny Thunderbolt dock that has them if you need them.

If I had it my way all the MBPs would still have Express Card slots on them but whatever I guess. Just means I'll have to buy one of those Thunberbolt docks in order to get eSata whenever I get a 15 incher.

I'm not sure why anyone would prefer the size and weight of the 13" MacBook Pro over the 13" MacBook Air. It weighs 50% more and doesn't have much to show for it (a Firewire 800 port, an optical drive, and a slightly faster processor).

You answered your own question. People bought the 12 inch Powerbooks because they offered things the iBooks at the time didn't.

 

[KPOM]

Also more storage space, faster GPU, better battery life and better base RAM.

If Apple phases out the 13" MBP, I'll phase me out of Apple.

The SSD options are the same. The difference in the GPU is negligible (only the base speed is different - the boost speed is the same). They also have the same base RAM. True, the Pro can be upgraded to 8GB, but is that a function of the thickness? I doubt it.

I can see tolerating a larger form factor if you need extra features, but I don't see why there is so much opposition to producing thinner notebooks.

Remember that the Air is the replacement of the MacBook line. There may well still be a Pro/Air split, even perhaps at the 13" level, though less likely since there is a lot of overlap. At the 15" and 17" levels, there may well still be sufficient room for a secondary 2.5" HDD. There definitely will be room for a dedicated GPU in the larger machines, as well, and perhaps even upgradable RAM. The 15" and 17" platforms have much more surface area with which to work. Apple doesn't need to make the same compromises as it does with the 11" or even 13" Airs.

The general trend with computers for decades has been toward faster and smaller designs. The trend largely stagnated for the past 10 years, but seems to have been reignited by the success of the MacBook Air and Intel's Ultrabook concept. I'm not sure why there is so much resistance this time. Heck, if "portables" were still the size of the Mac Portable or even the Powerbook 540c, we could have PCIe expansion slots, 24 hour battery life, 64GB RAM, and the most powerful dedicated GPUs running. Why did we ever go smaller than that size?

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Of course the won't have the same processors. I am also absolutely fine with the trends in power consumption and dynamic clocks. The problem I have is that higher end processors are going to be ignored to fit into these models.

I think you are missing the point of Haswell. The 35W and 45W monsters will be going away at that point. 17W and 25W will be the new mainstream. The 15" and 17" would be perfect candidates for the 25W.

No, but the problem is can they jam those packages in there while maintaining decent temperatures? They haven't done it with the Air as of yet (dedicated graphics).

They haven't done dedicated graphics in the 13" Pro, either. It's a function of the surface area, not the thickness. Again, Ivy Bridge and Haswell bring faster graphics, and it's apparent from Apple's CPU/GPU choices over the past few years that they believe the 13" and smaller models can make do with integrated graphics.

I don't want 90% of what my 15" can do, I want 100% and I want to be able to connect a multitude of devices and upgrade my RAM to 16GB+ (not at Apple prices and on my own terms).

See my post above about the Mac Portable form factor. As for the Air, there are already third party blade SSDs. Let's wait and see about RAM, but I don't see a technical reason why it would need to be soldered into the 15" and 17" logic boards.

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You answered your own question. People bought the 12 inch Powerbooks because they offered things the iBooks at the time didn't.

That's preferring the functionality, not the size. I was replying to a poster who was commenting solely on the size and weight of the 13" Pro vs. the size and weight of the 13" Air.

 

[calderone]

The SSD options are the same. The difference in the GPU is negligible (only the base speed is different - the boost speed is the same). They also have the same base RAM. True, the Pro can be upgraded to 8GB, but is that a function of the thickness? I doubt it.

I can see tolerating a larger form factor if you need extra features, but I don't see why there is so much opposition to producing thinner notebooks.

Remember that the Air is the replacement of the MacBook line. There may well still be a Pro/Air split, even perhaps at the 13" level, though less likely since there is a lot of overlap. At the 15" and 17" levels, there may well still be sufficient room for a secondary 2.5" HDD. There definitely will be room for a dedicated GPU in the larger machines, as well, and perhaps even upgradable RAM. The 15" and 17" platforms have much more surface area with which to work. Apple doesn't need to make the same compromises as it does with the 11" or even 13" Airs.

The general trend with computers for decades has been toward faster and smaller designs. The trend largely stagnated for the past 10 years, but seems to have been reignited by the success of the MacBook Air and Intel's Ultrabook concept. I'm not sure why there is so much resistance this time. Heck, if "portables" were still the size of the Mac Portable or even the Powerbook 540c, we could have PCIe expansion slots, 24 hour battery life, 64GB RAM, and the most powerful dedicated GPUs running. Why did we ever go smaller than that size?

There isn't opposition to thinner notebooks, there is opposition to ONLY producing notebooks that are like the Air.

We know the drawbacks of these form factors by looking at the current Air. Fewer ports, reduction in upgradability, reduction in computing power, etc.

That is what I don't want. If they plan on trimming the 15" a bit, that is fine by me. I also fine with lower TDP CPUs (prefer it actually).