More Claims of MacBook Pro Adopting MacBook Air Form Factor in 2012 Redesign

[KnightWRX]

Does it have built in Ethernet ? special model ?

It doesn't require built-in Ethernet. I use Ethernet only when at work and I rarely drag my MBA to work with me. I usually work from home with it or on the go where I use Wi-fi or Bluetooth for connectivity.

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For me it isn't really the storage space, it is the lack of flexibility.

There's nothing more versatile and flexible than a home NAS. All my computers get access to the same storage, share files and when I buy a new computer, I don't have any data to move over.

Seriously, I've been running this setup since about 2007. Works like a charm, I'm not ever going back to local storage in my computers.

 

[RBR2]

I think you have said this a few times in this thread. And it is honestly a load of bull.

Optical media (in Macs) has seen no major changes or enhancements. The DVD and CD of today are much like they were years ago. Even Blu-ray isn't picking up traction. I think the death of optical media has much to do with moving away from a reliance on mechanical mechanisms in computing, but also more reusable forms of distribution.

Unix on the other hand has seen many substantial improvements over time. If Unix had not been changed and enhanced over time it would be living with Windows 95 right about now and the internet would be run on a different platform.

In other words, "old" in this case has some additional ideas packed in. Not just age but also relevancy and progress. CD and DVDs (and optical media in general) are simply not as relevant today as they were even just a few years ago and there has been no significant advancements in optical media that warrants its continued usage.

I agree about "old", but the optical drives are still likely to be deleted from at least some of the laptops, both Mac and others, simply because they are large and take up a lot of space which limits the ability to shrink the form factor. Considering that most people use the optical drive somewhat infrequently, it is unlikely that they would be all that upset if it were moved to a peripheral if the result is a lighter, smaller device that they carry a lot.

Cheers

 

[calderone]

There's nothing more versatile and flexible than a home NAS. All my computers get access to the same storage, share files and when I buy a new computer, I don't have any data to move over.

Seriously, I've been running this setup since about 2007. Works like a charm, I'm not ever going back to local storage in my computers.

I absolutely agree, my home directories are stored on my server so I can switch machines easily as well. However, I often work with large data sets and other various things where fast local storage is handy.

Aperture libraries over the network is not much fun, so that is stored locally and rsync'ed to my network storage.

I suppose I have just been spoiled with two 512GB SSDs in my MacBook Pro. The point is, not everyone has usage patterns that match your own and as such those individuals can be impacted by a change in Apple's offerings. I can get by with a single 512GB SSD, but there is more than simply that aspect that frightens me about a line-up of Airs.

I agree about "old", but the optical drives are still likely to be deleted from at least some of the laptops, both Mac and others, simply because they are large and take up a lot of space which limits the ability to shrink the form factor. Considering that most people use the optical drive somewhat infrequently, it is unlikely that they would be all that upset if it were moved to a peripheral if the result is a lighter, smaller device that they carry a lot.

Cheers

I am not in favor of keeping the optical drive. I am just responding to the notion that "old" is not a valid reason for removing the optical from notebooks and that comparing it to Unix is somehow a valid comparison.

I personally think it should go away.

 

[FuFuFu]

Well .. if Apple decides to cancel pro line, I am out here.

Pro means: High End Notebook CPU, discrete GPU (and not a low end model), changeable battery, ram, hdd or ssd.

Paying the same price as current pro models just for a thin notebook is crazy, you will need the power.

 

[Icaras]

We're not talking about half of Apple's product line. We're talking about the MacBook Pro line and only the MacBook Pro line. Though even if we were talking about half of the Mac line, do note that we're talking about the consumer half and not the professional/prosumer half.

I can see said future, but I have enough foresight to know that said future isn't here yet hence being "future" and not "present".

We're talking about trends, declining technologies, and surfacing technologies, and all the rumors and directions are pointing that the MBP will ditch it soon enough.

Like I told you before, from many discussions ago, that Apple would ditch the white Macbook, but you were too adamant and too blind to see that they wouldn't. I really don't think your foresight is quite good if you cannot see the trends developing right in front of you.

It's a safe assumption. People like him are more common than you or anyone else on here realize.

Until you provide me with data to prove these points, I have no reason to take said points seriously

Nope, more common? No one will take you seriously if you cannot provide your argument with data to prove that people who use the ODD are more common at all.

I've given my side of the data, and thats an easy one: the Macbook Air is the best selling Mac product, and it does not have an ODD, and thats where real data about real trends happen: in the sales numbers, not the trivial complaints you find and read here on MR. Furthermore, why do you think starting this CES 2012, this has been called the year of the "ultrabook"? Why do you think Intel, Asus, HP, and Dell are all now trying to copy Apple and jump on the super thin, light-weight notebook aesthetic that does not include an ODD?

Come on, stop being so defensive and emotional about a technology, just because you think its inconvenient for you and others to use. Look at the industry as a whole, and not to yourself and a few others anecdotes on this forum.

And really, just because the Macbook Pro has a "Pro" in it's name, you don't think consumers are buying these models too?

Again, the optical drive is still around on MacBook Pros released as recently as this past October (which mind you, was after it was removed from the Mac mini). What does that tell you?

Obvious is obvious? Uh, it tells me that was the past. I'm talking about the future. What was the purpose of pointing that out?

 

[Blues003]

No, "every MBA review" does not point out that the only reason the MBA is usable is its SSD speeds. Maybe that was true for the Core 2 Duo models, but the CPU in the base 2011 MacBook Air is as fast as the CPU in the 17" 2010 MacBook Pro.

The CPU in the base 13" MacBook Pro is a dual-core Core i5 with a base speed of 2.4GHz, dual-core Turbo Boost of 2.7GHz and single core Turbo Boost of 3.0GHz. The available Core i7 in the 13" MacBook Air has a base speed of 1.8GHz, dual-core Turbo Boost of 2.6GHz and single core Turbo Boost of 2.9GHz.

As for the GPU, both use the Intel HD 3000. The 13" (both the base and high-end) operate at a base frequency of 650MHz and a Turbo Boost frequency of 1.3 GHz. The GPUs in the Air operate at a base frequency of 350MHz and a Turbo Boost frequency of 1.2 GHz.

There is a difference, yes, but it is not drastic. FPS rates are pretty similar.

The difference is quite drastic on CPU-intensive tasks. Are you forgetting to take into account that the CPUs on the MBP are LV, while the ones on the MBA are ULV? Clock rates are not everything.

It's a quite well-known and well-established fact that the CPU and GPU on the MBP behave superiorly than the MBA's for intensive tasks. If for casual browsing/e-mailing/office work the MBA is more than sufficient, for heavier tasks such as movie exportation or music creation it lags severely. Indeed, I have experience with both machines on both these situations, and have verified multiple times that for my needs (which include these two) the MBA is absolutely not satisfactory.

 

[KnightWRX]

for heavier tasks such as movie exportation or music creation it lags severely. Indeed, I have experience with both machines on both these situations, and have verified multiple times that for my needs (which include these two) the MBA is absolutely not satisfactory.

If you really need time critical execution of code, why are you running it on a laptop to begin with ?

That's the primary fallacy of this whole debate.

 

[Stridder44]

The most common argument I've seen for the removal of the optical drive is "it's old", which I point out as stupid because UNIX is also old and we wouldn't ever apply that argument there.

So your argument is "UNIX is older"?

 

[KPOM]

The difference is quite drastic on CPU-intensive tasks. Are you forgetting to take into account that the CPUs on the MBP are LV, while the ones on the MBA are ULV? Clock rates are not everything.

It's the same instruction set and the same cache. If they are running at the same clock speed, they will perform exactly the same. You create a low voltage chip by clocking a chip at a lower speed than what it is capable of operating at.

Back in September, Macworld released detailed Speedmark 7 scores for every Mac it tested. It included the 13" MacBook Pro (which was 2.3GHz at the time) with an SSD. Its overall score was 178 vs 175 for the Core 1.8GHz Core i7 MacBook Air. If you drill down to the individual tests, there is a bigger difference at some of the CPU-intensive tasks (such as encoding or decoding H.264 files), but only about 10-12%.

I will grant that the 2.7GHz i7 option makes a bigger difference. However, with Haswell and even Ivy Bridge, it should be possible to cram higher speed chips into the smaller 13" Air frame.

http://www.macworld.com/article/162129/article.html

Anyway, Anandtech's very detailed review back in July made it quite clear that the 11" and 13" Airs' cooling systems allowed the ULV chips to operate at boosted speeds most of the time.

 

[Swain]

If it's just a MBA's in 2012, then I will be a sad panda.

 

[MrAndy1369]

My two cents here:

While I can understand technology is changing, and optical drives are becoming seemingly obsolete, I still see a need for Apple to keep the ODD. Here's why - you may not use DVD's, or treat your MBPs like a DVD player, but I and many others still do. There's a lot of real-world data not being considered here. Furthermore, whatever happened to choice? Simple solution - give customers a choice. ODD? Another HDD? What's so bad about that? That would drive up business and customers would appreciate the choices they have. BluRay would also be nice, but I'm not counting on it.

I know those in Apple's walled gardens would rather have it be the Apple way or the highway's, but there are people out there (like me) who prefer choice. Does that make me old school/old fashioned/weird? If so, I despise the direction the world has gone in, because choice isn't a bad thing. By the way, DVD's are nowhere close to being obsolete because they're still sold by the ton at pretty much every chain store.

Downvote me all you want. I don't care anymore.

 

[sososowhat]

Rip the DVDs.

End of discussion.

And invest 30+minutes for each movie before leaving home and precious SSD disk space? PITA, not end of discussion.

 

[Bubba Satori]

The iOS/iToy makeover is almost complete.
Another 18 months and the Apple Computer we all knew will be history.
I said this would happen when Apple Computer Inc. changed their name.
I must admit to being frankly astonished at the speed with which it happened.

 

[ryanide]

Black bezel!!!

I just hope that they continue the look of the black bezel on the 15". I refuse to buy the Air because of the silver bezel that looks so 1998 Cheap!

Drop that optical drive and give me a longer life battery with less weight and I'll be buying one!!

 

[KPOM]

The iOS/iToy makeover is almost complete.
Another 18 months and the Apple Computer we all knew will be history.
I said this would happen when Apple Computer Inc. changed their name.
I must admit to being frankly astonished at the speed with which it happened.

So you really think that a quad-core Ivy Bridge i7 15" or 17" MacBook Air would be a toy because it lacks an optical drive and may have SSD as its primary storage?

Heck, even the "slow" 1.6GHz dual-core Core i5 MacBook Air is quite capable of performing the vast majority of tasks most people need from computers. Remember, it wasn't too long ago we were using single-core systems and counting memory in MBs. What has happened is that Moore's Law has continued unabated far longer than even Gordon Moore envisioned. Computing power has advanced at a faster rate than most consumer and enterprises know what to do with it.

 

[filmbuff]

The iOS/iToy makeover is almost complete.
Another 18 months and the Apple Computer we all knew will be history.
I said this would happen when Apple Computer Inc. changed their name.
I must admit to being frankly astonished at the speed with which it happened.

The old Apple we all knew will be gone and the new, profitable Apple with products that people actually want to buy will replace it. Is that what you're saying?

 

[JoeG4]

I just hope that they continue the look of the black bezel on the 15". I refuse to buy the Air because of the silver bezel that looks so 1998 Cheap!

I prefer the silver bezel/matte option, but I know where you're coming from - it's probably the thickness of the bezel that gives it that 1998 look more than anything else. The shiny black MBP bezel 'looks' thinner, especially on the 17" where it is thinner! Unfortunately, I don't think Apple will be going back to the superthin bezels they used to use on the TiBook and such. In addition to being fragile, the thin bezel can't have that long taper used on the MBA (and latest MBP) - and believe me that taper does a LOT for the superthin look.

I have a 13" MBA and if you hold it at eye level a few inches away and look straight at it you'll notice that it's really pillow shaped and isn't as thin as the sharp edges suggest.

As for the hardware, tough call. I can attest that you will not be able to get high end CPUs or GPUs into an enclosure this small without burning a hole in it. Playing TF2 and Portal on my MBA causes the fan to kick into overdrive - it doesn't overheat or lag but damn does it get noisy lol.

I'm not sure the onboard graphics would scale up to a 1920x1200 or 1680x1050 display well enough to run games. On the other hand, how many MBP users actually do demanding stuff on their hardware? It's becoming an ego game. I've been there and done that, and ended up with a big heavy laptop I didn't need.

I'll let you in on a secret: Video editing doesn't even need a CPU monster or a GPU monster. That's why hardware encoding and decoding exist, right? Now if you're doing theatrical special effects (which I get the feeling nobody does on a laptop anyway), you might have something there. While I do think there's a crowd of people that DO need high-power laptops, and would like an Apple one.. that crowd is probably a lot smaller than you'd think.

It is unfortunate that half of the game with these machines is marketing; if it were not, the MBP would not be called a "MacBook Pro", it'd still be called a PowerBook. Apple is suggesting that you're someone special if you buy a pro because not everyone needs one.

In reality, those that buy a 13" Pro over a 13" Air probably do so because they want a real hard drive (or the optical drive.. or both). No doubt, if it is going to be your only computer it'll be just like people that buy SUVs as their only car because sure they're single, but what if they randomly need to carry 4 football players with them?!

I know it has fallen out of style, but I'd much rather have a MBA and an iMac than an MBP.

 

[Blues003]

It's the same instruction set and the same cache. If they are running at the same clock speed, they will perform exactly the same. You create a low voltage chip by clocking a chip at a lower speed than what it is capable of operating at.

Back in September, Macworld released detailed Speedmark 7 scores for every Mac it tested. It included the 13" MacBook Pro (which was 2.3GHz at the time) with an SSD. Its overall score was 178 vs 175 for the Core 1.8GHz Core i7 MacBook Air. If you drill down to the individual tests, there is a bigger difference at some of the CPU-intensive tasks (such as encoding or decoding H.264 files), but only about 10-12%.

I will grant that the 2.7GHz i7 option makes a bigger difference. However, with Haswell and even Ivy Bridge, it should be possible to cram higher speed chips into the smaller 13" Air frame.

http://www.macworld.com/article/162129/article.html

Anyway, Anandtech's very detailed review back in July made it quite clear that the 11" and 13" Airs' cooling systems allowed the ULV chips to operate at boosted speeds most of the time.

First of all, thanks for the very interesting links. Please note that I am not by any means trying to attack the MBA, but rather defend the need for a MBP.

What about the rumored i7 quad-core that would be making its way to the 13" ? Considering it's not Ultra-Low Voltage (or Ultra, as it's going to be called from now on), wouldn't the differences be substancial then?

Furthermore, there's the storage-space issue. SSD prices are still too high for Apple to be able to offer us 500GB of SSD at a 1200€ price-point. Indeed, I'd even doubt they offered 256GB. So they will be basically forcing us to carry an external HDD if we need more than 128GBs of storage, essentially ruining the main advantage the MBA has over the MBP. Cloud services are still some steps away from maturity, and even Apple doesn't offer stream solutions for bought movies, for example.

 

[jlj1290]

They aren't always the first to adopt though... USB 3?!! It took Apple an overly long to get USB2 into all their laptops.

I'm not talking about putting new hardware in first, I am taking about taking old hardware out first and others following.

 

[linkismyhero]

If these rumors become truth, then I'm glad I bought my late 2011 model MBP. I like having a bit of heft to my laptop, and a built in optical drive.

 

[angemon89]

If this is true, I think there will be a name change/rebranding of the line all together. But what to call them? Hmmmmm...

 

[linkismyhero]

If this is true, I think there will be a name change/rebranding of the line all together. But what to call them? Hmmmmm...

MacBook AirPower.

 

[Bubba Satori]

The old Apple we all knew will be gone and the new, profitable Apple with products that people actually want to buy will replace it. Is that what you're saying?

I reject your implicit premiss that they are mutually exclusive.
Would it destroy Apple's success to offer a truly professional range of laptops?
Can't the most profitable megawow corporation in the 17 dimensions of the universe
offer two lines of laptops and still have one hundred billion in the bank?

Is that an axiomatically unpossible dividing by zero situation?

 

[Imhotep397]

Actually it probably would make sense for them to add a MacBook Pro "Thin" to the pro line-up and see if it sells significantly better than the other upgraded MacBook Pros before attempting to railroad every Pro down the FCP X road again. Memory is another thing pros like to upgrade and memory generally doesn't take too kindly to confined spaces.

 

[Pegamush]

Furthermore, whatever happened to choice? Simple solution - give customers a choice. ODD? Another HDD? What's so bad about that? That would drive up business and customers would appreciate the choices they have. BluRay would also be nice, but I'm not counting on it.

if you want choices you should buy a Win/Linux pc.
but then of course you cannot chose OSX. that's indeed a sad world.

but really, can't you see the limited number of choices apple gives to customers? is always been like this, but now even more, because the -pro market is somehow left abandoned (and i'm scared/disappointed too).
the future of apple is in the iDevices, computers are obsolete, so let's hope Win8 is not that bad..