More Claims of MacBook Pro Adopting MacBook Air Form Factor in 2012 Redesign

[entropi]

puh-lease, no hybrids - just dump HDD's and ODD's and go SSD! (you don't need every episode of "Lost" or every musictrack ever made or hours of unedited 10bit video on your portable computer, IMHO)

 

[calderone]

I think you are missing the point of Haswell. The 35W and 45W monsters will be going away at that point. 17W and 25W will be the new mainstream. The 15" and 17" would be perfect candidates for the 25W.


They haven't done dedicated graphics in the 13" Pro, either. It's a function of the surface area, not the thickness. Again, Ivy Bridge and Haswell bring faster graphics, and it's apparent from Apple's CPU/GPU choices over the past few years that they believe the 13" and smaller models can make do with integrated graphics.

I am not missing the point. I am fine with less power hungry CPUs. Great in fact. When I said power, I meant computing power. We don't know the limits of the Air form factor. My fear is that we won't be seeing higher clocked chips due to limits on the form factor.

In addition, I thought I read that 25w Ivy Bridge chips were axed?

See my post above about the Mac Portable form factor. As for the Air, there are already third party blade SSDs. Let's wait and see about RAM, but I don't see a technical reason why it would need to be soldered into the 15" and 17" logic boards.

I know third party SSDs for the Air exist. The non-standard form factor bothers me however. In addition see below about opening the thing.

The technical reason is the form factor and the fact that Apple doesn't want you opening the thing. What they have had to do with the batteries to get to that form factor makes it impractical to open it. I don't think Apple wants people opening their machines either.

If they were to move the slots from their stacked orientation they could potentially offer the ability to upgrade, but I think the battery present a challenge.

 

[Pegamush]

It is a disaster if all MacBooks are thin. The performance compromise will be inevitable - even if they manage to fit into design, you can always say if the size was bigger there would have been increase in performance.

And let's face it - it is not necessary to have macbook pro thinner than it is now. The fact that you are carrying it means pro users won't mind how heavy it is anyway, well at least if they stick to current weight.

i like to carry my 15" mbp around all the time, and every reduction in weight is always welcome. as long as the performance are at least the same as the 2011 model, then i'm fine. but i doubt it.
it's possible to shrink the 15" to make weight like the 13"pro, if you get rid of the ODD, glossy screen, mechanical HDD, some ports (rj45, fw?), then you're ok, but please don't touch the GPU!!

 

[KnightWRX]

I solved the storage problem on my MBA ages ago (heck, this solution was in place in my house since before I even owned a Mac) :

$ df -H | egrep "disk0|afp"
/dev/disk0s2                              120G    86G    34G    72%    /
afp_3z8fmC3EnSPv4tIAlf2hvTFg-2.2d000005   983G   909G    75G    93%    /Volumes/Public

That's right, 1100 GB of space. Due for an upgrade too, I'm waiting for prices to come down on hard drives to upgrade the storage to around 6000 GB.

 

[Krazy Bill]

Do you HONESTLY believe that Apple is going to assassinate its MacBookPro line just to make bigger MacBookAir?

You're right. I must've missed the news about all the money Apple has thrown at the Mac Pro lately.

Oh wait...

You need some tea leaf reading lessons my friend.

Apple could have made a 15" MacBook Air years ago, if they wanted to. They've taken a long time to approach it, and this is why. They want it to replace the 15" MacBook Pro, without compromising everything their customers expect from the MacBook Pro. I don't see how this is difficult for anyone to understand.

What makes you think the whole MBP line is all about a 15" mac? The 13" has the "Pro" moniker as well. Apple dumped the dedicated GPU from it and didn't blink twice when it came time to keep it in the "pro" line.

It will one day be an "Air". Just like your precious 15 inch will also be an "Air".... with an iGPU. What makes you think just because they did that to the 13" it won't happen to the MBP15? I've provided more proof they will do just that than you have they won't. You're argument is they would've done it by now if that were in the plans. Huh?

And one day... (one day I say), the 17 inch will be gone.

The only differentiation between each model will be screen size with maybe few extra bells and whistles that can't be upgraded. That's it. Give Apple's history of axing everything in the past (including the declaration that an OS they shipped only 7 months ago is now defunct) I don't understand why this is so hard to understand.

 

[Blues003]

The SSD options are the same. The difference in the GPU is negligible (only the base speed is different - the boost speed is the same). They also have the same base RAM. True, the Pro can be upgraded to 8GB, but is that a function of the thickness? I doubt it.

I can see tolerating a larger form factor if you need extra features, but I don't see why there is so much opposition to producing thinner notebooks.

Remember that the Air is the replacement of the MacBook line. There may well still be a Pro/Air split, even perhaps at the 13" level, though less likely since there is a lot of overlap. At the 15" and 17" levels, there may well still be sufficient room for a secondary 2.5" HDD. There definitely will be room for a dedicated GPU in the larger machines, as well, and perhaps even upgradable RAM. The 15" and 17" platforms have much more surface area with which to work. Apple doesn't need to make the same compromises as it does with the 11" or even 13" Airs.

The general trend with computers for decades has been toward faster and smaller designs. The trend largely stagnated for the past 10 years, but seems to have been reignited by the success of the MacBook Air and Intel's Ultrabook concept. I'm not sure why there is so much resistance this time. Heck, if "portables" were still the size of the Mac Portable or even the Powerbook 540c, we could have PCIe expansion slots, 24 hour battery life, 64GB RAM, and the most powerful dedicated GPUs running. Why did we ever go smaller than that size?

I was wrong about the RAM. Sorry abotu that.

As for the 13"'s CPU and GPU, they are not just "minimally" different. They are MUCH more capable. Every MBA review points out that the only reason the MBA is usable is its SSD speeds, and if you need evidence of that, you can check youtube.com/detroitborg where he compares the speed of a MBA with a SSD-equiped MBP for CPU intensive tasks such as video exporting.

I have nothing against the MBA. I have a lot against killing the MBP. Sorry, but I don't want a computer that's less capable than the late-2011 13" MBP in terms of CPU and GPU.

 

[Nic0]

MBA style, means no Ethernet port anymore ? No ethernet = useless laptop

 

[KnightWRX]

MBA style, means no Ethernet port anymore ? No ethernet = useless laptop

My MBA has Ethernet. Which is great, because there's no wi-fi at my work.

 

[Nic0]

My MBA has Ethernet. Which is great, because there's no wi-fi at my work.

Does it have built in Ethernet ? special model ?

 

[Riemann Zeta]

Looks like my next MBP purchase (not that I need one, my current 2010-era machine is still perfect) will be a used top-spec 2011 model. Yes, the Macbook Air ultra-small industrial design is cool. But I want more than just "the cool," I want a computer. I hate the idea of no longer having a real discrete GPU, an optical drive, an actual spinning disc HDD (SSDs are still too 'black box,' because every manufacturer has a different proprietary chipset that presents a virtual HDD-like interface to the OS, there is no way of knowing how an SSD actually writes data, if files can ever really be deleted securely, if the flash chips will readily accumulate dead sectors/cells, etc...). I want more than one USB port, a real RJ45 ethernet jack and a Firewire port--not everything has to be super tiny, Apple.

The way the whole computer industry is moving is disturbing to us late-20s and up "old farts" who want hardware and software with options and custom configurability. Look at the direction both Apple and Microsoft are going: standardized 11-13" ultrathin appliance-like machines with integrated GPUs, zero interchangeable/repairable parts, sandboxed operating systems that don't allow users root access and won't allow 3rd-party executables that haven't been approved by corporate.

What happened to computers as broad-spectrum, infinitely customizable tools? As Apple of the mid-2000s/early-2010s demonstrated, it is possible to combine sexy design with utility. Not every computer needs to be supermodel thin, welded shut and purposed solely for checking facebook. Now get off my lawn, ya' damn kids

 

[Brien]

The writing was on the wall as soon as they opened the Mac App Store. Then they axed the ODD from the mini. This is the next logical step, followed by it's removal from the iMac, and if my hunch is correct, the discontinuation of the Mac Pro.

----------

Looks like my next MBP purchase (not that I need one, my current 2010-era machine is still perfect) will be a used top-spec 2011 model. Yes, the Macbook Air ultra-small industrial design is cool. But I want more than just "the cool," I want a computer. I hate the idea of no longer having a real discrete GPU, an optical drive, an actual spinning disc HDD (SSDs are still too 'black box,' because every manufacturer has a different proprietary chipset that presents a virtual HDD-like interface to the OS, there is no way of knowing how an SSD actually writes data, if files can ever really be deleted securely, if the flash chips will readily accumulate dead sectors/cells, etc...). I want more than one USB port, a real RJ45 ethernet jack and a Firewire port--not everything has to be super tiny, Apple.

The way the whole computer industry is moving is disturbing to us late-20s and up "old farts" who want hardware and software with options and custom configurability. Look at the direction both Apple and Microsoft are going: standardized 11-13" ultrathin appliance-like machines with integrated GPUs, zero interchangeable/repairable parts, sandboxed operating systems that don't allow users root access and won't allow 3rd-party executables that haven't been approved by corporate.

What happened to computers as broad-spectrum, infinitely customizable tools? As Apple of the mid-2000s/early-2010s demonstrated, it is possible to combine sexy design with utility. Not every computer needs to be a supermodel thin, welded shut and purposed solely for checking facebook. Now get off my lawn, ya' damn kids

Computers are going what automobiles went through in the late 70's. Computers and the internet will become increasingly lock-down/"simplified" for the everyman, at the expense of people like us. It sucks, but it's going to happen.

 

[calderone]

I solved the storage problem on my MBA ages ago (heck, this solution was in place in my house since before I even owned a Mac) :

$ df -H | egrep "disk0|afp"
/dev/disk0s2                              120G    86G    34G    72%    /
afp_3z8fmC3EnSPv4tIAlf2hvTFg-2.2d000005   983G   909G    75G    93%    /Volumes/Public

That's right, 1100 GB of space. Due for an upgrade too, I'm waiting for prices to come down on hard drives to upgrade the storage to around 6000 GB.

Funny, I have nearly 10TB of disk space on my server.

For me it isn't really the storage space, it is the lack of flexibility.

 

[OneOkami]

MBA style, means no Ethernet port anymore ? No ethernet = useless laptop

Both my Windows PC and my Mac are sitting right next to my N+ Wireless Router, and you know what, I don't even bother running Ethernet to either one because I've yet to feel the need. I've even played Starcraft II over battle this way and it was just fine. I'm all for one having the choice, but I do not agree that a Wi-Fi-only laptop is useless.

 

[calderone]

Both my Windows PC and my Mac are sitting right next to my N+ Wireless Router, and you know what, I don't even bother running Ethernet to either one because I've yet to feel the need. I've even played Starcraft II over battle this way and it was just fine. I'm all for one having the choice, but I do not agree that a Wi-Fi-only laptop is useless.

I agree, it surely isn't useless. I have N and it is a bit of a hassle to run a cable through my place, but I did it anyway as I just couldn't deal with the speeds.

And to be clear, we are talking local to local, not my internet connection for which wireless is obviously sufficient.

 

[Yebubbleman]

Old DVD movies on BR format cost from $6-10 and new movies are going up to $25 which is what DVD used to cost before BR came out. If you buy BR used you can buy for 1/2 to 3/4 off from $2-15. Just because you don't know how to buy it doesn't mean everybody else doesn't. But, maybe you are right let me buy some VHS or maybe Beta Tapes since they are cheaper than DVDs maybe some music tapes too. Sorry to burst your 'bubble' man... And, if you didn't know you can buy the external DVD drive from apple or use one form your house if you really need something from a disc.

I'm talking burnable media, not store-bought content. Also, you clearly were more focused on making an ass out of me than actually reading my comment on external DVD drives. Way to go! This thread needs more like you!

for those who hope for ethernet still..you can always buy

Image

It's only 10/100. If you think that this will suffice over Gigabit, then you should not be on a forum discussing the MacBook PRO.

I can see this happening:

Mac Book = The Current 11" and 13" Airs.

Mac Book Pro = The new 15" and 17" Airs.

The difference between Macbook And Macbook Pro? Discrete GPU.

You cannot fit a discrete GPU in a MacBook Air enclosure. Period. That, however, won't stop you from dreaming' on.

I don't think optical drives weigh that much.

THEY DON'T!

I can't tell if you're trolling or not. How are optical drives and UNIX even close to the same thing? One has mechanical moving parts because it's hardware and the other is, well, software.

The most common argument I've seen for the removal of the optical drive is "it's old", which I point out as stupid because UNIX is also old and we wouldn't ever apply that argument there.

It's already disappeared in half of Apple's Mac product line, so what does that tell you?

We're not talking about half of Apple's product line. We're talking about the MacBook Pro line and only the MacBook Pro line. Though even if we were talking about half of the Mac line, do note that we're talking about the consumer half and not the professional/prosumer half.

No, I'm really not confused. You're too focused on the dwindling group of users who are finding it "inconvenient" to carry around a simple, super thin, super light peripheral that weighs less than three quarters of a pound. You can't seem to see more than a couple of generations past you to see that the real future belongs to an ODD-less market.

I can see said future, but I have enough foresight to know that said future isn't here yet hence being "future" and not "present".

And how do you know that particular person has heard of it or not? I'm not going to sift through his/her entire post history to determine whether or not he has knowledge of said peripheral, nor am I going to go on epic mega quoted thread vendetta such as yourself just to prove a point.

It's a safe assumption. People like him are more common than you or anyone else on here realize.

Your focusing on problems and negative complaints that few people on internet forums are bringing up. It doesn't matter how many people you can keep track here that are getting pissy over the removal of the ODD. Do you not notice that the MBA is the best selling Mac in Apple's lineup? Macbook Air trumps the other Macs when it comes to sales. Customers are indeed voting with their wallets and they're saying that not having an ODD is not that important to them.

Until you provide me with data to prove these points, I have no reason to take said points seriously

Mac Mini was the last one to drop and it and Apple will do the same with the MBP lineup. Its inevitable and the few who do need it are not so important to Apple's bottom line that they'll keep hanging on to it.

Again, the optical drive is still around on MacBook Pros released as recently as this past October (which mind you, was after it was removed from the Mac mini). What does that tell you?

I'd like to see statistics of people actually using their optical drives on a regular basis before they claim the future MBPs should retain the drive (and vice versa). I guess it's up to those who use a MBP-spec'ed machine as a portable DVD player but if you lug those DVD wallets around you probably can also carry a USB-powered optical drive with it. Back in the days CDs held software or music where people went into stores to purchase them - not quite so today anymore anyway.

Look man, even if I only use my optical drive an average of once every other month, I still want it. It's not like it sticking around prevents Apple from doing anything other than reducing weight, which given that I'm a physically healthy adult, isn't important to me; I can carry the negligible amount of weight that the ODD adds. Again, for those that don't, buy an Air and get on with your life.

 

[RBR2]

2 GB RAM on edu model

is really going to suck. I can hardly wait until the bad reviews of its performance hit the street. I can not see much useful happening on these things that an Atom powered slug of a netbook could not do.

 

[calderone]

The most common argument I've seen for the removal of the optical drive is "it's old", which I point out as stupid because UNIX is also old and we wouldn't ever apply that argument there.

I think you have said this a few times in this thread. And it is honestly a load of bull.

Optical media (in Macs) has seen no major changes or enhancements. The DVD and CD of today are much like they were years ago. Even Blu-ray isn't picking up traction. I think the death of optical media has much to do with moving away from a reliance on mechanical mechanisms in computing, but also more reusable forms of distribution.

Unix on the other hand has seen many substantial improvements over time. If Unix had not been changed and enhanced over time it would be living with Windows 95 right about now and the internet would be run on a different platform.

In other words, "old" in this case has some additional ideas packed in. Not just age but also relevancy and progress. CD and DVDs (and optical media in general) are simply not as relevant today as they were even just a few years ago and there has been no significant advancements in optical media that warrants its continued usage.

 

[Ice Dragon]

- 4 GB RAM standard (option to upgrade to 8 GB)
- 128 GB SSD standard (option to upgrade to 256 on mid-range, 256 to 512 GB on high end)

I am a person of minimal needs.

 

[SRTM]

I hope it is more like the macbook air.
The specs will get downgraded in some areas, and lose the DVD drive.
Now I wont feel so bad about my recent MBP purchase, cause I love having the DVD drive.

 

[pmz]

You're right. I must've missed the news about all the money Apple has thrown at the Mac Pro lately.

Oh wait...

You need some tea leaf reading lessons my friend.



What makes you think the whole MBP line is all about a 15" mac? The 13" has the "Pro" moniker as well. Apple dumped the dedicated GPU from it and didn't blink twice when it came time to keep it in the "pro" line.

It will one day be an "Air". Just like your precious 15 inch will also be an "Air".... with an iGPU. What makes you think just because they did that to the 13" it won't happen to the MBP15? I've provided more proof they will do just that than you have they won't. You're argument is they would've done it by now if that were in the plans. Huh?

And one day... (one day I say), the 17 inch will be gone.

The only differentiation between each model will be screen size with maybe few extra bells and whistles that can't be upgraded. That's it. Give Apple's history of axing everything in the past (including the declaration that an OS they shipped only 7 months ago is now defunct) I don't understand why this is so hard to understand.

You obviously didn't read anything I posted, and you can't even put a coherent sentence together. I honestly have no idea what you were trying to say, it was that bad.

What are you getting at? Most of the same of what I was getting at, but with a ridiculous and anti-common sense conclusion.

Here it is, in nutshell:

1. Apple will eliminate the 13" MacBook Pro when new Intel Ivy Bridge U-series Dual Core i5 and HD 4000 are ready for inclusion in the 13" MacBook Air.

2. Apple will redesign the 15" & 17" MacBook Pro, eliminating the Optical Drive, and creating overall thinner and lighter machines.

Considering that you and I are not the engineers inside Apple working on this project at this very moment, we cannot state that Apple can't include the M-series Ivy Bridge in the 15 & 17" thin models.

What I CAN STATE, is that Apple will not replace the current 15 & 17 with thin versions, IF IT PREVENTS THEM from using the 2.6 - 2.9 Ghz Quad Core i7 (M-series) Ivy Bridge chips. Period. This is an easy statement to make, because Apple has used Intels top end mobile chipsets in every MacBook Pro revision, and this one will be no different, with or without the thin redesign. There is your "proof"

Everything else, such as user replaceable RAM & SSDs, and the use or abandonment of discrete graphics, is completely unknown and not even up for debate, since no one here can weigh in on that with any degree of accuracy or coherence. 95% of people inside Apple couldn't even weigh in on that if they wanted to, as they're not working on the project, so they have no idea what's possible and what's not.

 

[Riemann Zeta]

Computers are going what automobiles went through in the late 70's. Computers and the internet will become increasingly lock-down/"simplified" for the everyman, at the expense of people like us. It sucks, but it's going to happen.

Certainly true. Sadly, the politicorporate market-makers want the internet of the future to be like cable TV: a monolithic, pay-per-view service featuring for-profit infotainment that is centrally administered by an oligopoly--you either subscribe or don't. It's easy and cool, it works like a 'futurized' dumb terminal and it continuously absorbs money from you and transfers it to them. Look at ACTA, the attempt with SOPA and the general way the winds are blowing, it definitely sucks.

 

[pmz]

- 4 GB RAM standard (option to upgrade to 8 GB)
- 128 GB SSD standard (option to upgrade to 256 on mid-range, 256 to 512 GB on high end)

I am a person of minimal needs.

I find those options to be in the high 99% likelihood. Plenty of people will whine that they need more, but they don't, they just want more.

You have no idea how frustrating it can be in the IT world when people insist they need a 1 TB internal drive in their notebook...despite having less than 60 GB of content to speak of.

 

[aznguyen316]

Both my Windows PC and my Mac are sitting right next to my N+ Wireless Router, and you know what, I don't even bother running Ethernet to either one because I've yet to feel the need. I've even played Starcraft II over battle this way and it was just fine. I'm all for one having the choice, but I do not agree that a Wi-Fi-only laptop is useless.

I agree with my Airport Extreme + my GF's 13" MBA the speeds are pretty great and comparable to my desktop hooked up via gigabit. However the biggest thing I've noticed is I use a 2TB HDD hooked up to my Airport Extreme and file transfers are SOOO much faster via ethernet than over n speed. Plus if you have any g-speed wireless devices on your wireless router, it will slow down your n-speed as well. But ethernet is not a make it break it on a laptop for me since I rarely will hook up Ethernet to my X220 anyway.

 

[KPOM]

As for the 13"'s CPU and GPU, they are not just "minimally" different. They are MUCH more capable. Every MBA review points out that the only reason the MBA is usable is its SSD speeds.

No, "every MBA review" does not point out that the only reason the MBA is usable is its SSD speeds. Maybe that was true for the Core 2 Duo models, but the CPU in the base 2011 MacBook Air is as fast as the CPU in the 17" 2010 MacBook Pro.

The CPU in the base 13" MacBook Pro is a dual-core Core i5 with a base speed of 2.4GHz, dual-core Turbo Boost of 2.7GHz and single core Turbo Boost of 3.0GHz. The available Core i7 in the 13" MacBook Air has a base speed of 1.8GHz, dual-core Turbo Boost of 2.6GHz and single core Turbo Boost of 2.9GHz.

As for the GPU, both use the Intel HD 3000. The 13" (both the base and high-end) operate at a base frequency of 650MHz and a Turbo Boost frequency of 1.3 GHz. The GPUs in the Air operate at a base frequency of 350MHz and a Turbo Boost frequency of 1.2 GHz.

There is a difference, yes, but it is not drastic. FPS rates are pretty similar.

 

[thekev]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

The issue is that MBPs are a professional machine used across the board in creative industries. If they truly go towards the air that will mean fumbing down the power, as they did with FCP x, which in reality follows apples same path of a prosumer shift, including getting rid of the Mac Pros.

The term prosumer is used a bit too often. Their focus has seemed to center around device collections that people incorporate into their lives as much as possible. I don't think they care about "prosumers". $300 software is hobby level pricing. Anyone can afford it. It doesn't represent a shift toward prosumers but a continued shift toward all mass market products.

I don't think optical drives weigh that much.

I've used it in comparisons before when it comes to 13" air vs 13" pro weight comparisons. Using newegg to estimate potential weight of the parts and design influence, the HDD and optical drive combined probably add 6 to 8 ounces to the weight of the 13" over the Air equivalent with 6 seeming fairly likely. It's not that much, but it shows that it's more than the shell material bringing down the weight factor.

Personally I think all of you who believe that Apple can somehow work around all of the engineering problems involved in making a 15" pro with discrete graphics are silly. I think until technology matures further, you'll see a 15" Air added. The 13" Air already has the best hardware you can fit in that form factor. If they want an ultralight 15" they'll add one, but some featured used to justify Apple's markups can't be migrated into a 15" Air, and you would still be left with the lower bandwidth thunderbolt chip currently used in the air(look it up).