More Claims of MacBook Pro Adopting MacBook Air Form Factor in 2012 Redesign

[FluJunkie]

You keep using "PRofessional" when you mean "Professional videographer". I'm a "Professional Unix Systems administrator" and the MBA is a fine tool for my job. A MacBook Air Pro would work just as well.

A MacBook Air Pro wouldn't work just as well for me, and I'm not a professional videographer. I'm a professional scientist. If for no other reason than the maximum MBA ram is 50% that of a maxed out MBP.

The fact is, video production, CAD/CAM, animation, etc, are the most computer intensive lines of work and test computer capabilities the furthest. Therefore this discussion is the most relevant to these guys.

If I was drinking something, it would have gone fountaining out my nose. Video production and CAD/CAM are not "the most computer intensive lines of work". They are computer intensive, but seizing on the idea that you're the only folks who hit their computers hard, and thus the only people who matter is exactly what's the complaint.

Bioinformatics, heavy simulation work, signal processing, and about a dozen other fields are more than capable of making a claim on that.

 

[MorphingDragon]

It's not a cloud if I know how it's composed. A cloud is a network diagram drawing to represent a network for which you don't have implementation details. I know perfectly how my own LAN is setup, thus it's not a cloud. Hence why I didn't reply to you the first time.

Clearly we have differing definitions.

 

[KnightWRX]

A MacBook Air Pro wouldn't work just as well for me, and I'm not a professional videographer. I'm a professional scientist. If for no other reason than the maximum MBA ram is 50% that of a maxed out MBP.

And neither is an appropriate tool for scientific number crunching.

Look, a MBP is better suited than a MBA to run the SAP CIs we have at work, but guess what, I wouldn't use either one to do it. That's what server hardware is for.

Same for other lines of work. "Professional laptops" are not meant for big number crunching, they're meant as simple portable work tools for demonstration/executives/typing. They're perfect for IT people, management, HR, secretaries, accountants, journalists, investigators, sales representatives.

I really doubt as a scientist, you need to do big number crunching on the go, and if you do, you probably have VPN access to work and a TN3270 terminal emulator to connect to your IBM Z series instead of running your code locally on some dinky laptop, no matter if it has 4 GB of RAM or 8.

 

[FluJunkie]

And neither is an appropriate tool for scientific number crunching.

I really doubt as a scientist, you need to do big number crunching on the go, and if you do, you probably have VPN access to work and a TN3270 terminal emulator to connect to your IBM Z series instead of running your code locally on some dinky laptop, no matter if it has 4 GB of RAM or 8.

My Mac Book Pro is a perfectly appropriate tool for my line of work. There is admittedly some days when all I use it for is as a glorified SSH terminal into a cluster, but those days could just as easily been done on an iPad - and have been.

And you're welcome to "really doubt" what I do - except that you're talking to the person who actually does it, rather than your big bundle of assumptions. Nearly everyone in my field does the majority of their work on a laptop (supplemented with access to big nasty servers at times), but most of us prefer to work on our machines, and do most of our actual work there, especially with mockups, prototyping code and the like.

Twice the RAM means, for R or Python, more than twice (because there's OS and application overhead) the amount of data that can be held in memory. The jump in productivity, and what you can do on a local machine, is massive.

You can be dismissive if you want, but in my field, the landscape is dominated by folks using MBPs, and their black Lenovo equivalents.

 

[KnightWRX]

My Mac Book Pro is a perfectly appropriate tool for my line of work. There is admittedly some days when all I use it for is as a glorified SSH terminal into a cluster, but those days could just as easily been done on an iPad - and have been.

And you're welcome to "really doubt" what I do - except that you're talking to the person who actually does it, rather than your big bundle of assumptions. Nearly everyone in my field does the majority of their work on a laptop (supplemented with access to big nasty servers at times), but most of us prefer to work on our machines, and do most of our actual work there, especially with mockups, prototyping code and the like.

Twice the RAM means, for R or Python, more than twice (because there's OS and application overhead) the amount of data that can be held in memory. The jump in productivity, and what you can do on a local machine, is massive.

You can be dismissive if you want, but in my field, the landscape is dominated by folks using MBPs, and their black Lenovo equivalents.

Prototyping code, writing it out and even compiling it doesn't require gobs of RAM or a big CPU. I write out my system reporting scripts on my local machine too, but I run them where it counts.

And if I do need to run them locally for some ungodly reason, well, I just wait longer for the result. It still comes out.

Anyway, the 4GB vs 8GB argument is flawed. We're not talking about the current shipping versions, we're talking about the upcoming MBP refresh that might or might not use an "Air" form factor. The form factor has nothing to do with the amount of RAM or having an OpenCL/GPGPU capable graphics chipset.

If really, "videographers" and "scientists" and "game testers" are such a big demographics for Apple, they will target their offerings to you guys. If you're not, Apple has shown time and again that it is willing to drop niche demographics for much more lucrative ones and you might be left buying Dells or Lenovos or whatever else.

It's sad, but it's the way of Apple.

 

[AidenShaw]

It's not a cloud if I know how it's composed. A cloud is a network diagram drawing to represent a network for which you don't have implementation details. I know perfectly how my own LAN is setup, thus it's not a cloud. Hence why I didn't reply to you the first time.

Clearly we have differing definitions.

Maybe I should return my paychecks, then, since much of my work involves consulting on private corporate clouds.

"Cloud" is the new "client-server" - it's just that the "server" is distributed and you can't easily tell where your data is and who is giving you computes.

It doesn't matter if the "cloud" is a stack of MiniMacs in your closet, servers in your various corporate datacenters, or (like the Icloud) hosted by Microsoft in places that you can't determine. "Cloud" is an approach to modular, scalable, failure-resistant services.

Large corporations with security concerns, and academic/scientific groups with multiple sites, often use the "private cloud" approach.

 

[KnightWRX]

Maybe I should return my paychecks, then, since much of my work involves consulting on private corporate clouds.

"Cloud" is the new "client-server" - it's just that the "server" is distributed and you can't easily tell where your data is and who is giving you computes.

Cloud is newspeak. It does come from the fact that back in the 90s, we used clouds to represent parts of an infrastructure we didn't know about or were just "passing through", in order to simplify network schematics. We had distributed client-server computing back then (I remember the ISP I worked for had 3 frontal POP3 servers that all accessed a distributed database on a backend, with a round-robin dispatcher in front of it to make it look like a single server to customers).

It's like you say, "corporate clouds" are just the same thing we've always had, except spun in a way to make them look new and bring in the consultation fees for "migrations".

It's ridiculous and I refuse to use newspeak to refer to my well known and documented LAN. I have a NAS, it's remotely accessible. That's the end of it, it's not "cloud storage".

 

[AidenShaw]

named after the old clouds, not the same

Cloud is newspeak. It does come from the fact that back in the 90s, we used clouds to represent parts of an infrastructure we didn't know about or were just "passing through", in order to simplify network schematics. We had distributed client-server computing back then (I remember the ISP I worked for had 3 frontal POP3 servers that all accessed a distributed database on a backend, with a round-robin dispatcher in front of it to make it look like a single server to customers).

It's like you say, "corporate clouds" are just the same thing we've always had, except spun in a way to make them look new and bring in the consultation fees for "migrations".

It's ridiculous and I refuse to use newspeak to refer to my well known and documented LAN. I have a NAS, it's remotely accessible. That's the end of it, it's not "cloud storage".

I agree, your single NAS box is not "cloud storage". And if your single NAS box is sitting somewhere on the Internet (out in the Visio clip-art "cloud" from 1993) it's still not cloud storage.

If, however, your "NAS box" wasn't a single box, but was 3 or more NAS boxes with an intelligent dispatcher (i.e., something like RAID plus load balancing) then it becomes closer to a cloud. If you can put a .30-06 bullet through one of your NAS boxes and not see anything bad, then it becomes closer to a cloud. If you can add a few more NAS boxes, and the only visible change is that your NAS is bigger - it's also more like a cloud. If your NAS boxes are at different physical sites, and you could destroy a site or two with a tactical nuclear weapon without it causing any problems accessing your data, then it's more like a cloud. (Or more probable, have an earthquake, hurricane, tsunami or site/regional electrical grid failure without any problems.)

"Cloud computing" doesn't simply mean that things are offsite on the Internet. It means that services, computing and storage are all virtualized for reliability and scalability.

Apple cannot "host Icloud" at the North Carolina datacenter - that's why Microsoft hosts the Icloud as a service that Apple buys. (BTW, Microsoft has at least 4 data centers larger than Apple's North Carolina site...)

 

[FluJunkie]

Prototyping code, writing it out and even compiling it doesn't require gobs of RAM or a big CPU. I write out my system reporting scripts on my local machine too, but I run them where it counts.

It does if its simulation code creating data sets, or MCMC. Because *your* code doesn't doesn't mean all code does it.

And if I do need to run them locally for some ungodly reason, well, I just wait longer for the result. It still comes out.

Mine doesn't. The data gets to big, down everything goes.

Anyway, the 4GB vs 8GB argument is flawed. We're not talking about the current shipping versions, we're talking about the upcoming MBP refresh that might or might not use an "Air" form factor. The form factor has nothing to do with the amount of RAM or having an OpenCL/GPGPU capable graphics chipset.

The whole thing is speculative. You're on MacRumors. And given the Air is the only actual data point we have to go on, and it's lacking both a discrete GPU and unexpandable RAM (combined with Apple undergunning RAM on every machine they make by default), its not an insane worry.

If really, "videographers" and "scientists" and "game testers" are such a big demographics for Apple, they will target their offerings to you guys. If you're not, Apple has shown time and again that it is willing to drop niche demographics for much more lucrative ones and you might be left buying Dells or Lenovos or whatever else.

It's sad, but it's the way of Apple.

True. And if they do, they'll drop niche demographics. But I've discussed in the past the considerable footprint niche demographics have on things. I'm less likely to participate in the more lucrative parts of the "Walled Garden" if they've already kicked me out.

 

[JoeG4]

I was just thinking: What if Apple makes a new MacBook pro, new form factor and all.. but it still has most (if not all) of the current model's features and then some?

They could come up with something different, perhaps a thin bezel (I know, I'm dreaming). Perhaps a hybrid SSD/HDD setup or an optional HDD (or an optional optical drive).

The 15" Air could very well happen too. I'm not sure why a 15" Air would have to not have things such as firewire or ethernet if there's still room for them. They could use a collapsible ethernet port, for example.. or make the machine taper as the MBA currently does but have the widest end as wide as the MBP currently is.

For a bunch of "creative" professionals you guys sure aren't being creative in thought - it sounds like either you expect Apple to make the MBP exactly the same as it is now, or make it exactly like the 13" and 11" MBA.

 

[KnightWRX]

It does if its simulation code creating data sets, or MCMC. Because *your* code doesn't doesn't mean all code does it.

Mine doesn't. The data gets to big, down everything goes.

Leaves me to wonder what you did not back 2 years ago, when MBPs didn't support more than 4GB of RAM.

True. And if they do, they'll drop niche demographics. But I've discussed in the past the considerable footprint niche demographics have on things. I'm less likely to participate in the more lucrative parts of the "Walled Garden" if they've already kicked me out.

That argument didn't stop them from dropping the Xserve, their gateway product to client management for big entreprise installed bases of MBPs, Mac Pros, Mac Minis and iMacs. It doesn't seem like Apple has a broad vision when it comes to these things. 1 Xserve might not have made them profit, but the thousands of clients it could have managed would've. And they still chose to axe it.

That's their modus operandi unfortunately.

 

[thekev]

I was just thinking: What if Apple makes a new MacBook pro, new form factor and all.. but it still has most (if not all) of the current model's features and then some?

They could come up with something different, perhaps a thin bezel (I know, I'm dreaming). Perhaps a hybrid SSD/HDD setup or an optional HDD (or an optional optical drive).

The 15" Air could very well happen too. I'm not sure why a 15" Air would have to not have things such as firewire or ethernet if there's still room for them. They could use a collapsible ethernet port, for example.. or make the machine taper as the MBA currently does but have the widest end as wide as the MBP currently is.

For a bunch of "creative" professionals you guys sure aren't being creative in thought - it sounds like either you expect Apple to make the MBP exactly the same as it is now, or make it exactly like the 13" and 11" MBA.

Apple likes to axe things that they consider to be legacy items or only used by a smaller percentage of users. They tend to favor aesthetics over well.... everything else.

 

[FluJunkie]

Leaves me to wonder what you did not back 2 years ago, when MBPs didn't support more than 4GB of RAM.

Less interesting work. But then, science still got done with slide rules, that does not mean we shouldn't consider more powerful tools necessary.

That argument didn't stop them from dropping the Xserve, their gateway product to client management for big entreprise installed bases of MBPs, Mac Pros, Mac Minis and iMacs. It doesn't seem like Apple has a broad vision when it comes to these things. 1 Xserve might not have made them profit, but the thousands of clients it could have managed would've. And they still chose to axe it.

Except the Xserve is an entirely different question. Apple was not, and never would be, a major player in the server market, and even they knew it. Apple thrives on being able to set trends and make them work, and they didn't have that in the enterprise server market.

Beyond that, not using a Mac for a server doesn't have a whole lot of impact on the client-machine experience. You can connect a Mac to a Linux server easy as pie, and very few people will notice. That's an entirely different question than wanting to connect your iPad to a non-Apple machine.

 

[MorphingDragon]

Maybe I should return my paychecks, then, since much of my work involves consulting on private corporate clouds.

Maybe you should, we need some competent Admins/Consultants in New Zealand. Macleans IT is dropping the ball big time.

That being said, what do you think of a Hybrid cloud approach? I have been thinking about researching more into it as a way to cut entry costs for smaller businesses.

It's ridiculous and I refuse to use newspeak to refer to my well known and documented LAN. I have a NAS, it's remotely accessible. That's the end of it, it's not "cloud storage".

Wouldn't stop VMWare or RedHat (and other companies) to market it as such, and thats all that really matters. If you refuse to adopt new terms all you do is cripple your ability to communicate.

I usually tend to ignore cloud computing advertising however, it complicates things which don't need to be complicated. If I get asked by a client or a friend I usually give a rather generic answer.

 

[deconstruct60]

Where is the ****ing FW 800 port?

Most likely? On the 15-17" MBA-like body. The original MBA only had one USB port. The current 13" one has two. The side panel on the 15" or 17" is substantively larger to hold more that what the 13" model has.

While I think Apple may put the MBP on a diet (e.g., optical drive) , I'm a bit skeptical that they will become as minimalistic as the original MBA. I think they'll stay thick enough for SO-DIMM slots (as opposed to RAM horizontally soldered to the motherboard). Quad-core means they can only lower the thermal profile only so far (at least for a couple of years).
The case is going to be between where the MBP is now and the MBA size. It isn't going to limbo down to the match the MBA exactly because the MBA throws some CPU/GPU performance under the bus for the sake of thinness.


FW will probably start to disappear in 2013-2014 after TB and USB 3.0 become more firmly entrenched, but Apple would probably keep it for now as one of the "differentiators". When it starts to disappear from Macs then sure it will get added to some TB legacy connectivity boxes. There is going to be enough howling at the loss of the optical drive. They'll save the howling about FW for another year.

Even a HDD box is one box too much to haul, let alone with cables to lose along the way.

FW isn't cableless. It is funny how FW devices and associated cables are not 'world ending' problems to getting work done in the field but if there is a different cable or device the sky falls.

And what if the "Pro Video" crowd actually needs low-latency options that don't load the CPU that needs t be available for better tasks than I/O ?

In the context of storage drives? SATA. Actually, it is even lower latency and overhead than FW. SATA over PCI-e via TB is another.

I think folks are missing the point. Different subgroups are going to have different subsets of legacy ports that are "important" and other ports they they are going to be willing to let go. The number of people who absolutely need "everything all the time" probably don't have Macs (e.g. they don't have PS/2 , VGA , etc. ports now) or are likely very near or below 1% of users.

There is a viable solution for those folks now. If Macs were all " boxes with slots" folks would compenstate with PCI-e cards. Thunderbolt solutions just embed the PCI-e card in an external box.

 

[KnightWRX]

Except the Xserve is an entirely different question. Apple was not, and never would be, a major player in the server market, and even they knew it. Apple thrives on being able to set trends and make them work, and they didn't have that in the enterprise server market.

Same for the MBP in the "video editor" and "scientific" fields then. Glad we're in agreement.

 

[Tadros]

If you've just "made the jump" to DVD burning, you're about 10 years late. DVD burners have been cheap forever. Same for FW really. And they are all still available for the MBA through external options/adapters.



A decent GPU (nVidia's 320m integrated graphics), a laptop class CPU (instead of netbook class Atoms and AMD APUs), a screen with high resolution (1440x900), all in a 2.9 lbs package with SSD and 4GB of RAM.

What else do you want really ? Again, go back to October 2010, find me such a computer for cheaper than the MBA. I couldn't.



Again, they never stopped. Did you get a Verizon (CDMA) iPhone 4S per chance ? Those don't have a need for SIMs. Anyway, to prove I'm not lying here :

View attachment 324270

It even has a nice little drawing of a iPhone 4/4S with the SIM ejection tool being used.



Yes it was, and in case you missed my point, it was this : There are no "Liquid Metal cases". The liquid metal deal was for the SIM ejection tools. What properties does Liquid Metal bring to the table above and beyond what aluminum does ? No one can ever answer that. Everyone has a hard-on for it because they think it's black. It's not, it's the same grey color as what we have now.



So are all the so called "Pros". What's your point ? I think his point was that you're no more a Pro because you need a big CPU to compensate for something else than someone that can make do with a lesser CPU. And I tend to agree. The size of your CPU does not dictate your level of "Proness".



Forget reliability and connectivity issues, I have privacy issues with cloud storage. I don't like people having access to my files unless I give them access.

Yup, of all the things I could have purchased, I bought a MBP to compensate, cause all the ladies love my computer!

The argument wasn't even about the CPU either...

 

[KnightWRX]

Yup, of all the things I could have purchased, I bought a MBP to compensate, cause all the ladies love my computer!

The argument wasn't even about the CPU either...

And my point wasn't about the CPU either. My point was that buying a "MBP" does not make you a Pro. Not buying a "MBP" also does not remove your "Pro" status.

A computer is a tool for professionals if it is used as such, no matter what its name is. When I use my MacBook Air to run arcane Unix commands to make my servers perform magic, I'm using it profesionnally. It thus becomes a "Pro" machine, same as your MacBook Pro, no matter if it lacks built-in Ethernet, a ODD drive, only has 4 GB of RAM and a ULV CPU.

The fact you still can't wrap your head around this quite simple concept is astounding. Your level of "Proness" is not dictated by your tool, only by your usage of that tool.

 

[mabaker]

The fact you still can't wrap your head around this quite simple concept is astounding. Your level of "Proness" is not dictated by your tool, only by your usage of that tool.

Extremely wise words. Ppl forget all too often that you can be Pro even when using an ancient Wallstreet G3.

 

[ghostrider501]

Guys when will the new line of MBP's be released?

I hope it's before April,

 

[Yebubbleman]

I may admittedly have exaggerated slightly with respect to the thinness, but the Superdrive is actually a bit thicker than a 9.5mm HDD - which is why it is possible to replace the Superdrive with an Optibay - and even 12mm HDDs fit into current MBPs, so it should be possible to make it thinner by 2.5mm at least, if the ODD was removed.

Image

I'm still skeptical, but it's still a sexy mock-up nevertheless.

Apple claims they are registered for OS X Lion :

http://images.apple.com/macosx/docs/OSX_for_UNIX_Users_TB_July2011.pdf

But, as you can see, the OpenGroup doesn't list them. I don't think their page is out of date either, look at the bottom :



So... something is amiss.

No, I mean even with them saying that they've updated the website recently, what are the odds that the people handling the certification process aren't in the best of communication with the team running the website?

I'm sorry, but this has to be a joke.

As I said earlier, the SuperDrive isn't going anywhere, at least for the 15' and 17' MacBook Pro's. SSD's will NOT be implemented until the prices drop to about the same range as current disk based HDDs. MacBook Pro's will NEVER only depend on Thunderbolt. Ethernet ports are NOT going anywhere. Audio In isn't going anywhere either.

If Apple will like to be completely impracticable then all this will come true. But Apple likes efficiency. For example, I use ALL the ports on my 17inch MacBook Pro while in my recording studio. My USB ports run my iLok key, my HDPVR, and an external HDD. My Thunderbolt port runs my monitor. My FireWire 800 port runs my audio board. My ethernet port runs my internet at 42 Mbps download and 35 Mbps upload, which my wifi (current gen AirPort Extreme) can not replicate unless I am inches away from it. My Expresscard slot runs my eSata card for another external hard drive. And finally, my SuperDrive burns session DVD's for clients as well as CDs of their music and CD's for my car.

It's unrealistic to think that their Pro line will lose any of these features. Unless they completely get rid of the pro line, which in turn they will lose all their Pro users. i would never buy another Mac for Pro use if ANY of these features were excluded. I know they are stubborn and don't want to enter into the BluRay or the USB 3.0 market, but i honestly feel like they should. You all are talking about Apple moving forward, then why aren't these adapted? iTunes quality music will NEVER match CD quality, cause the files are too compressed. iTunes movies will NEVER match BluRay quality, cause the files are too compressed! So no i will not be purchasing any music or videos from iTunes, as I haven't. Even Steve Jobs didn't like to listen to digital music, he was a vinyl user!

If they want to allenate the consumers that kept them afloat in their darkest times and loss their business, none of us have a problem moving back to Windows. PCs are cheaper, Windows isn't as bad as it used to be, and more programs are compatible. Even things that kept people as Apple users have better options that are compatible with Windows. Logic < ProTools, Final Cut Pro X < Avid. Sorry guys.

As for Thunderbolt being a capable replacement for ALL these ports... no. As we learned in the audio/video field, the less convertors you have in your chain, the cleaner your signal will be and the easier things will run. If i start linking everything to a thunderbolt port, not only will it not be cost effective, but I doubt everything a Pro needs will run smoothly or elegantly.

Pro machines aren't meant to be small, they are meant to be beasts. When you buy a MacBook Pro, or even a Mac Pro, you are buying it for POWER and FLEXIBILITY! Limiting it's hardware will not be a good business plan at all, it just won't happen.

People also forget that not all software is available through the internet and disks are needed. Apple will continue to grow if it continues to hold it's developers connections, but if they don't then it's a bleak future. For example, even with my fast internet speeds, it took an hour to download the newest version of ProTools. Why waste an hour of my life when i can stick the disc into my DVD drive and install it? Until the Internet is fast enough for consumers, until servers allow faster download speeds, and until Internet costs drop, Disk based media is a necessity.

My Dream MacBook Pro (I know it won't happen, shut up)

Continue having the latest Intel chipsets
Continue having both onboard AND discrete graphics cards
3 USB 3.0 ports
2 Thunderbolt Ports
1 Ethernet Port
1 Firewire 800 port
1 HDMI port
Audio in/out
BluRay Superdrive
Expresscard port

I know USB 3.0, BluRay. and HDMI will probably never make it to the MacBook Pro, it's just sad when you can buy other Laptop/Notebook brands that will include all of them and have more ports, the same processor and graphics card all for around $1000 - $1500 cheaper.

This. Though, USB 3 is all but guaranteed on Ivy Bridge machines given it'll be the first time that Intel natively supports it.

This misunderstands the way a macbook pro is used by those who use it for pro purposes, for instance, in video and film production.

Right now, with tapeless cameras beginning to dominate, my macbook pro goes in the field on shoots, P2 and XDCAM cards are popped out of cameras and into the expresscard slot, the data cloned to 2 external hard drives (moving to thunderbolt these days), and quick assemblies of dailies strung out in AVID Media Composer, and the laptop maybe even connected to a external monitor and 3rd party hardware such as MOJO or AJA. The computer is used in the field just as heavily as at the desk.

There is no point to have even a faster, quad core MBA in the field and a docking station at home.

I think you might be agreeing with the poster you are replying to. That being said, if you have a MBA and you want discrete graphics, then a docking station at home is the only way you'll get discrete graphics at home (assuming it's that kind of docking station).

You keep using "PRofessional" when you mean "Professional videographer". I'm a "Professional Unix Systems administrator" and the MBA is a fine tool for my job. A MacBook Air Pro would work just as well.

Also, the bolded parts. Motion and Color run on a MBA, albeit with a performance hit. Also, the MacBook Pro 13" has no dedicated video card, yet still bears the moniker Pro. How do you explain that ?

The fact is, there's more than one line of "Professionals" out there, you videographers need to stop appropriating the term as if it only belongs to you.

----------



He's right. And I'm a Pro stating it and using a MacBook Air for my own profession. There's nothing especially "Pro" about the Macbook Pro. It's just a laptop.

You're arguing semantics. I know a ton of people that could get by in their PROfessions with just an entry-level Mac mini as their desktop machine. The whole design philosophy behind the MacBook Pro (at least the 15" and 17" is that it has everything you'd possibly need for a laptop in your profession. The fact that you get by fine without those features and are fine with a MacBook Air is great, but it does nothing for those who actually need/want features not present on your Air. Sure, desktop workstations are probably better for most things that you can't do on a MacBook Air, but that's a very black-and-white way of looking at it as you can still get that kind of work done on a MacBook Pro and you can still do so better than on a MacBook Air.

A point that a lot seem to miss. For the few times you do need that ODD, just use an external.

I don't think people miss that point as much as they don't find it a good solution. Personally, I have a ton of optical media and what I need, I tend to take with me, and one extra accessory to take around is annoying as is having to consciously remember or decide whether or not to bring it along. You can't argue that it's not more convenient to just have it in there for when it's needed.

Guys when will the new line of MBP's be released?

I hope it's before April,

MacBook Pros are released every 8-10 months and were last updated on October 24th, 2011. Do the math. June-August is more likely.

 

[deconstruct60]

I understand that asking for 3 USB 3.0 ports is asking a lot, for now... Notice current Macs have tons of USB 2.0 slots?

They don't. MBA 11" & 13" 2. MBP 13" 2. MBP 15" 2. Those are the highest selling units and two isn't a "ton of slots". The MBP 17" has 3 and the iMac & Mini have 4. Mac Pro has 5.

The underlying chipset support at least twice that top end number. Apple doesn't "pig out" on running USB sockets to the case edges.

The other issue is that the Intel Panther Point chipset that comes with Ivy Bridge only supports 4 USB 3.0 (out of 14 USB in general). About half is 2 (which was also the max of the original NEC/Renesas controller. )

I just want them to start adapting USB 3.0 so eventually USB 3.0 will become the new standard and their products will contain multiple ports. Hence why it was a "Dream" lol

Apple is being a conservative adopter. They are only picking up the technology have the early adopters have worked out most of the kinks. The issue is that USB 3.0 also pragmatically requires some new software for the xHCI stack. I would not be surprised if Apple punts that to the next OS X version (10.8) which won't show up for over year. If they have been working on it, I'll give the props because it has been deep stealth mode development process.

I can see if Thunderbolt were more popular and more products were released sooner that the need for an expresscard slot would be null, but for now I still need it to run my hardware. I was going to replace my 2007 MBP with a 15 2011 MBP but when I noticed it lacked the express card slot, I had to bump up to a 17 inch.

When Apple dropped the ExpressCard from the 15" they mentioned that their numbers showed less that 1% of MBP users were using the slot. There isn't a large viability hurdle to get over here. Esepecially if some vendor just ships a simple, inexpensive ExpressCard to TB dongle.

Intel is going to drop some new TB controllers this spring.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news...lt-controller-could-broaden-reach-of-spec.ars The Port Ridge controller is much more ideally suited for a "1 port TB dongle" solution.
USB 3.0 adoption didn't shift into second gear either until the second generation controllers showed up.

As for Apple not including the SuperDrive, I can see this happening for all their products except for the Pros.

There isn't much special the "Pro" label machines that makes that motivates this. In stationary set ups there is really not that much different between internal and external if you really need a DVD drive. So the Mac Pro is poorly motivating argument here. "My home workspace" for a MBP ... again poor. The only viable option here is DVD in the field.

Maybe not the iMac at least for another 2-3 years.

There are several value swaps that Apple could do with the ODD space in an iMac.

i. more cooling. Upper end iMacs can run hot if pushed hard. There is more room for fans/vents without the ODD.

ii. SATA USM more easily removable drive. Often there is a complaint can't easily get to HDD. One reason for that is that the ODD soaks up edge space. Even if not removable more easily laid out HDD + SDD space internally if not soaked up by ODD.

I know THEIR products are all digital downloads, but other companies products aren't.

Most commercial software companies have digital downloads. For example, large vendors like Adobe, Oracle, Autodesk, and VMWare all have digital download offerings. Small vendors like "donation ware" and smaller shops with reasonable sized applications have been on the primarily digital download track for a long time. Mozilla and Chrome are almost exclusively digital download.

What is unique about Apple is that they are digital download only for some apps.

Many users are doing it and several "mac only" vendors have jumped on the bandwagon.

“The Mac App Store has unparalleled reach and has completely transformed our distribution and development cycle,” said Saulius Dailide of the Pixelmator Team. “Offering Pixelmator 2.0 exclusively on the Mac App Store allows us to streamline updates to our image editing software and stay ahead of the competition.”

“In less than one year we’ve shifted the distribution of djay for Mac exclusively to the Mac App Store,” said Karim Morsy, CEO of algoriddim. “With just a few clicks, djay for Mac is available to customers in 123 countries worldwide. We could never have that reach through traditional channels.”

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/12/12Apples-Mac-App-Store-Downloads-Top-100-Million.html

[yes. to some extent those vendors are playing along so that Apple promotes them more highly in the store but there is real leverage and benefits. ]


DVD's also aren't the only distribution mechanism. Apple is distributing Lion on USB Flash drive. One of the most popular low cost tablets in India has a full sized USB socket.

" ... But the way that Indians carry around and manage data is the USB stick. ... "
http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2012/01/08/the-inside-story-of-indias-50-computer-tablet/

A quick look on Amazon shows that a 2GB ( DVD sized) USB flash drive is about $4 . It would not be hard for a software company to simply tack a $4 charge onto shipping that would cover cost of USB drive for a large population of DVD-less new Mac users.

It'd be foolish to do away with them so soon.

It is also foolish to overlook viable alternatives that cover the vast majority of users. It is goofy to design a computer around the 1% of the user base.

And I am already paying $2000 + for the notebook, it should at LEAST come with a DVD Burner if not a BluRay!

Not really. If Apple substitutes something of equal or greater value for an ODD then it still makes the $2000+ price point viable. For example, a Blu-Ray burner costs more than a DVD burner. Is that a 'bad' value proposition? No. You get more, you pay more. Generally, that's not an issue.

So if Apple drops the $40-50 DVD drive for a $40-50 SSD then the price would stay the same and you'd have a laptop that still had $2000 valuation.
The relatively small number of people who use DVDs everyday might not be as happy as the majority of users whose laptop now runs faster and lasts longer on battery. However, often the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Most users would see a net value increase.

One of the major disconnects in these forums are the folks who position "thinner and less weight" as having the greatest value. That is a bit dubious. While the 13" MBA has been priced higher than the MBP 13" and Macbook it also sold in substantially lower numbers. ( like fewer than the Mac Pro kind of numbers). The overall numbers picked up with Apple scarificed the MB for the MBA 11". Almost anything creditable at the $999 Mac laptop entry price point is going to be popular.

Most users aren't going to buy into the "taking away most of the ports" increases value sales pitch.

You can't not include the current media while your competitors are...

Yes you can if what the competitors are including is primarily just "feature list war", low value differentiation. Sure some people buy based on number of sockets on the edge of box and higher GHz clock. However,

Trying to be all things to all people isn't really a good business practice. At best this typically leads to very low margins and bloated organizations. At worse it tanks whole companies.

As long as Apple's competitors have 10's of billions less in the bank, substantially lower profit margins, and very low product differentiation, I think you are going to be extremely hard pressed to get anyone in power at Apple to buy into your premise.

Apple hasn't been hampered much by the lack of 5-in-1 media card readers , VGA socket , combo USB/eSATA socket, or PS/2 ports. It is not what sockets the competitors have that is important. It is which sockets/media do users actually use that is critical. As long as the defaults along the case's edge are what most peope use then the product is viable. If some single digit (or smaller) percentage of users need something else then they can pay more for the additional functionality if that functionality has high value to them.

Also, I don't think Apple went digital to get rid of the DVD Rom drive, they went digital to control their product sales without having serial numbers and to lessen costs of production of DVD Roms.

No. Apple has never been big on software DRM (and hence serial numbers). There are some titles that they have acquired that had numbers/DRM but most "exclusively grown internally" titles over Apple's history don't have them.

What the Mac App stores does is not only lower DVD production costs, it removes the 'middleman'. Instead of the distributors/retailers getting a 10-20% cut of the price Apple gets to keep it all. Apple is on track to putting a 30% tax on the vast majority of Mac OS X software sold. In short, there is far more money to make than there is to save here. Revenue growth pumps up the stock which makes the execs (and other stockholders ) more wealthy.

The Mac App store has also lowered users cost. Lion and other software is now cheaper. That also is an objective for Apple. If Mac OS X software overall costs less, users have more money to spend on Mac systems.


The other issue is just plain usage. Most users don't use the drives that much. Software Installation is only an occasional usage thing. There is very little justification to drag around a ODD for an activity that users only rarely do.

 

[natejohnstone@g]

Please no!!

I'm with the rest who hope that this rumor is NOT true! I want a MacBook PRO ... notice the PRO ... not a 17" MBA. If they think there is money in larger MBAs, then sobeit, but keep the MBP as well.

If they get rid of the 17" MBP, and only offer large-sized net-machines (i.e. no power, pitiful GPU, etc), then I'll have to go back to a PC which I really don't want to do!

 

[JoeG4]

I'm with the rest who hope that this rumor is NOT true! I want a MacBook PRO ... notice the PRO ..

Ok, let's just call the 15" and 17" models MacBook Pros.

Problem solved.

 

[RBR2]

I'm with the rest who hope that this rumor is NOT true! I want a MacBook PRO ... notice the PRO ... not a 17" MBA. If they think there is money in larger MBAs, then sobeit, but keep the MBP as well.

If they get rid of the 17" MBP, and only offer large-sized net-machines (i.e. no power, pitiful GPU, etc), then I'll have to go back to a PC which I really don't want to do!

Don't feel like the lone ranger. There are more people than Apple would care to admit sitting on the fence waiting to see what direction Apple will take with Mac Pros as well as MacBook Pros. Not only is there a need for a 17" MBP, but a 13 inch MBP for use by photographers in the field among other core customers. It is not that the people sitting on the fence want to move to a different platform. On the contrary, most have been long term Apple customers, but need hardware that fits their needs. Among the photography community, a surprising number of professional photographers made the switch because Adobe did not commit to producing a 64 bit version of Creative Suite for OS X for quite a long time and the switchers simply could not give up the productivity gains waiting to see if or when Adobe would turn out an OS X product. There can be little doubt that Adobe's position was influenced by Steve's battles with them. There simply was a lot of bad blood and the truth was that Apple needs Adobe more than Adobe needs Apple.

Let's hope that the new team practices some fence mending.

Cheers