More Claims of MacBook Pro Adopting MacBook Air Form Factor in 2012 Redesign

[FluJunkie]

Same for the MBP in the "video editor" and "scientific" fields then. Glad we're in agreement.

Are you suggesting that Apple isn't a major player in the high end laptop market? Now you're just being disingenuous.

Hell, the last conference I was at, Macs outnumbered PCs by a decent margin.

And I even like the Air.

 

[natejohnstone@g]

Are you suggesting that Apple isn't a major player in the high end laptop market? Now you're just being disingenuous.

Hell, the last conference I was at, Macs outnumbered PCs by a decent margin.

And I even like the Air.

Apple is absolutely a major player right now. IF this rumor is true, though, they'll be intentionally cutting off the pro users, and willingly loosing a decent size of their customer base. It would be a ridiculous move. The current MBPs can play well with the the high-end PC laptops in many respects, and ending that by ditching the powerful laptop line would be so crazy that if I owned Apple stock I'd sell. That's if this rumor is true.

I personally think (perhaps hope is a better word) that they simply plan to add a 15" MBA to the lineup, but keep the 15" and 17" Pros (redesign or no).

 

[Tech198]

Makes sense for USB3.0 since Thunderbolt is not getting off the ground. and by the looks off it, anytime soon.

But Apples pushing for TB not USB 3.0 ...... Good luck with that one though.


As for Blue ray... Its not relaly fair to say the new mac WON"T have blueray. as this kind of implies that the previous macs did. which isn't true.... Apple never and will not ever have Blue ray, thats just a proven fact.

Steve was always against it anyway, doesn't matter who's in control. If Apple had any sense, they would not change it.

Good thing Ivy Bridge will bring is lower power consumption.... so desktops will be taking a break on the side line for a while, while laptops get the spotlight

A Senior Advisor today diring a troubleshooting itunes, he asked me why I won't consider APP. I relied because I'm hopefully getting a new mac next few month. The poor guy was probably astonded by the fact that Macbook Air May hav a 15" display.. I would understand customer service response, but a senior advisor ? They are the guys "in-the-know"

 

[talmy]

I would understand customer service response, but a senior advisor ? They are the guys "in-the-know"

Nobody outside of 1 Infinite Loop is "in-the-know".

 

[KnightWRX]

Are you suggesting that Apple isn't a major player in the high end laptop market? Now you're just being disingenuous.

Wait, when did this discussion change from "mobile workstations" to "high-end laptops". A MacBook Air, with 4 GB of RAM, is still a high-end laptop. The scientific work and video editing discussions are about mobile workstations.

Is Apple a major player in that particular field (mobile workstation) ? Dunno, no one gives out such specific sales number, even Apple doesn't break down on a per-model basis.

But the thing is, that particular field is a niche. It's small. Is it too small for Apple to consider it moving forward ? That's what you should be asking yourself.

 

[thekev]

Wait, when did this discussion change from "mobile workstations" to "high-end laptops". A MacBook Air, with 4 GB of RAM, is still a high-end laptop. The scientific work and video editing discussions are about mobile workstations.

Is Apple a major player in that particular field (mobile workstation) ? Dunno, no one gives out such specific sales number, even Apple doesn't break down on a per-model basis.

But the thing is, that particular field is a niche. It's small. Is it too small for Apple to consider it moving forward ? That's what you should be asking yourself.

That's a pretty big stretch. Reasonable port allocation, quad core cpu options, and discrete gpus are still very mainstream items. Platforms referred to as mobile workstations typically offer a lot more in the way of features than a macbook pro. I'm not talking about preference here. I'm referring to gpu options, multiple drives, and the ability to do long streams of number crunching within temperature limits approved for 24/7 use, without throttling. See that is a niche market. The features offered by the current macbook pro are still those of a mainstream product. It's just that Apple's idevices dwarf their growth making even items that ship in high numbers look like niche products. Personally I don't see a point in dropping what they currently have in the macbook pros if it means comparable internals to that of the Air. The Air uses the fastest available cpus that are currently appropriate to that form factor. You're not going to pull a lot of extra performance out of such a design without moving to a different class of parts in terms of cpu/gpu components and ram/port allocation.

Also if you're looking at thunderbolt, the macbook air uses a lower bandwidth chip than the current macbook pro. I'm not sure if it's a size or power thing, so I don't know how to determine if this would be factored into a slimmed down 15". The tech sites will probably mention it once they see a working unit.

 

[MorphingDragon]

Wait, when did this discussion change from "mobile workstations" to "high-end laptops". A MacBook Air, with 4 GB of RAM, is still a high-end laptop. The scientific work and video editing discussions are about mobile workstations.

Is Apple a major player in that particular field (mobile workstation) ? Dunno, no one gives out such specific sales number, even Apple doesn't break down on a per-model basis.

But the thing is, that particular field is a niche. It's small. Is it too small for Apple to consider it moving forward ? That's what you should be asking yourself.

I don't think any globally penetrating market providers segment to the point of mobile workstations.

 

[Eidorian]

I don't think any globally penetrating market providers segment to the point of mobile workstations.

Dell has their Precision mobile lineup along with boutique vendors shoehorning in a X58/X79 into a 20 lb. monster.

And how could we forget this baby and some fun here.

 

[MattInOz]

Dell has their Precision mobile lineup along with boutique vendors shoehorning in a X58/X79 into a 20 lb. monster.

And how could we forget this baby and some fun here.

this baby seems to have been replaced.

This product is unavailable. Below we have suggested a like or better computer to satisfy your immediate needs

The new design brings back 'fond' memories of the A3 Rotoring drawing broad I use to lug around.

 

[Eidorian]

this baby seems to have been replaced.

The new design brings back 'fond' memories of the A3 Rotoring drawing broad I use to lug around.

It feels like we were discussing the XPS M2010 just yesterday.

 

[Cubytus]

FW isn't cableless. It is funny how FW devices and associated cables are not 'world ending' problems to getting work done in the field but if there is a different cable or device the sky falls.

It's all about number. Yet Another Cable/Device is NOT having just an external drive (2 parts, cable + drive). It would be, at worst, docking station (1pt), ODD drive (1pt), external HDD (2 pts), plus all the added weight and volume, without increasing performance whatsoever.

In the context of storage drives? SATA. Actually, it is even lower latency and overhead than FW. SATA over PCI-e via TB is another.

Yet vendors manage to promote a "dumb" enclosure (i.e. no logic required) as a "premium" feature and charge you for it. Anyway. eSATA only allows for one external drive. If it's not fast enough, or big enough for your taste, too bad, you can't chain them. Plus.... Where do you actually connect your video camera, pro audio interface? Those are commonly used in video production.

I think folks are missing the point. Different subgroups are going to have different subsets of legacy ports that are "important" and other ports they they are going to be willing to let go. The number of people who absolutely need "everything all the time" probably don't have Macs (e.g. they don't have PS/2 , VGA , etc. ports now) or are likely very near or below 1% of users.

Agreed. I just ordered a small USB-RS232 adapter to make the Mac compatible with my legacy TI-GraphLink cables, but I wouldn't consider it a deal-breaker. Adaptor is very cheap and small. But in FW's case, you just can't replace it with an adapter without killing its advantages: even Card/34 format places a bottleneck in the data's path. FW controller has to be closer to the CPU.

If you've just "made the jump" to DVD burning, you're about 10 years late. DVD burners have been cheap forever. Same for FW really. And they are all still available for the MBA through external options/adapters.

Not quite.

DVD burners were extremely expensive 10 years ago, and a retailer asking $400-600 for one wasn't at all unusual (same period where you couldn't get a laptop for less than $1500). Only a rich friend of mine bought one in special where it was "only" $250, and I provided my own DVD-Rs.

FW HDD still command a large premium over similar, USB-only ones. I'm talking about 30-40% more. FW+USB enclosures are typically 80% more expensive than pure USB ones. There are expensive enough that you will forfeit higher speed if you don't really care about the added handicap of higher CPU requirements.

I needed the speed for virtualization, and wasn't willing to change the internal drive since it was still under factory warranty at that time, so I ponied up the cost. But $180 for 750GB still looks expensive.

Forget reliability and connectivity issues, I have privacy issues with cloud storage. I don't like people having access to my files unless I give them access.

*Kiss* on both cheeks. I hope you're staying as far as possible from Facebook and especially Google's non-search-related services, 'cause they want to get massive amounts of info about you, without specifically telling what they are doing with it.

About cloud storage, SpiderOak swears your data is encrypted on their servers. I'm using it for offsite backup, and really sensitive files are locked inside TrueCrypt containers. Give them a try if you wish.
***

There is very little justification to drag around a ODD for an activity that users only rarely do.

And there is also very little justification to grossly over-priced external accessory. $80 for an external SuperDrive is too much.

But as much as I hate to admit it, Apple have looked for years to get rid of its SuperDrive. Back when I occasionally used Panther, then Tiger, then Leopard, there was no way to burn a plain old video DVD. Free burning applications are almost non-existing, non-updated. Commercial ones don't get updated very often. Most lack a functional DVD-video mode. External USB DVD drives still commonly fail to burn DVDs properly, even at the lowest speed setting. The OS isn't available on plastic discs anymore. Although BD-ROM drives have been available in low-cost PCs since two to three years, Apple still didn't update the SuperDrive functionality.

I wouldn't be surprised if it went the way of the dodo, although it would really piss me off, especially as the university doesn't lend external DVD drives.

 

[KnightWRX]

I hope you're staying as far as possible from Facebook and especially Google's non-search-related services, 'cause they want to get massive amounts of info about you, without specifically telling what they are doing with it.

They can want to all they want, they aren't getting more than I am giving them. There's a big difference between uploading my project files and data to a cloud provider, and sharing a few pictures here and there that I don't mind sharing with the world.

And no, I don't have a Facebook account TYVM.

----------

And there is also very little justification to grossly over-priced external accessory. $80 for an external SuperDrive is too much.

Then buy a 30$ from Samsung or any other brand really. No one forces you to buy the Apple option. That's the beauty of external devices.

 

[AidenShaw]

Not exactly true

Anyway. eSATA only allows for one external drive. If it's not fast enough, or big enough for your taste, too bad, you can't chain them.

eSATA ports with PM (port multiplier) can connect 5 drives to 1 eSATA port. They show up as 5 independent drives on the host computer.

This can be done with either a 2 to 5 bay multi-drive enclosure like

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816111177​

or an eSATA hub like:

http://www.sataport.com/​

connected to single-bay (or multi-bay RAID) enclosures.

 

[MorphingDragon]

Dell has their Precision mobile lineup along with boutique vendors shoehorning in a X58/X79 into a 20 lb. monster.

And how could we forget this baby and some fun here.

Not available in NZ or AUS.

I'm actually quite disappointed at Dell sometimes, they have some products that would fit wonderfully into New Zealand's small business IT market. Like the vStart Vritual Appliances products.

 

[Yebubbleman]

Don't feel like the lone ranger. There are more people than Apple would care to admit sitting on the fence waiting to see what direction Apple will take with Mac Pros as well as MacBook Pros. Not only is there a need for a 17" MBP, but a 13 inch MBP for use by photographers in the field among other core customers. It is not that the people sitting on the fence want to move to a different platform. On the contrary, most have been long term Apple customers, but need hardware that fits their needs. Among the photography community, a surprising number of professional photographers made the switch because Adobe did not commit to producing a 64 bit version of Creative Suite for OS X for quite a long time and the switchers simply could not give up the productivity gains waiting to see if or when Adobe would turn out an OS X product. There can be little doubt that Adobe's position was influenced by Steve's battles with them. There simply was a lot of bad blood and the truth was that Apple needs Adobe more than Adobe needs Apple.

Let's hope that the new team practices some fence mending.

Cheers

Personally, I think that this article as well as the Gizmodo article covering the exact same topic is a load of rubbish. They won't merge as a merger wouldn't yield anything different than already provided except for the mythical 15" MacBook Air, which could still come out, but odds of it replacing the 15" MacBook Pro are slim as you can get the thing any thinner without making sacrifices that those who want a laptop with things like a quad-core CPU and a discrete GPU wouldn't want to make. That said, I don't want to have to buy a 17" MacBook Pro to get a full-featured Mac with Ethernet, FireWire 800, an optical drive, a hard drive, and a discrete GPU, but if the 13" and 15" models go away, that's exactly what I'll do. It's stupid and needlessly consumer-centric, but if that's the game that they're playing, I'll have no choice but to bite as Hackintoshing a PC laptop is still not as easier as building a tower for it.

Makes sense for USB3.0 since Thunderbolt is not getting off the ground. and by the looks off it, anytime soon.

But Apples pushing for TB not USB 3.0 ...... Good luck with that one though.


As for Blue ray... Its not relaly fair to say the new mac WON"T have blueray. as this kind of implies that the previous macs did. which isn't true.... Apple never and will not ever have Blue ray, thats just a proven fact.

Steve was always against it anyway, doesn't matter who's in control. If Apple had any sense, they would not change it.

Good thing Ivy Bridge will bring is lower power consumption.... so desktops will be taking a break on the side line for a while, while laptops get the spotlight

A Senior Advisor today diring a troubleshooting itunes, he asked me why I won't consider APP. I relied because I'm hopefully getting a new mac next few month. The poor guy was probably astonded by the fact that Macbook Air May hav a 15" display.. I would understand customer service response, but a senior advisor ? They are the guys "in-the-know"

Senior technical advisors are just as in the dark as we are, if not moreso. Only higher-up engineers, and senior marketing people are truly "in the know" at Apple. That said, Thunderbolt and USB 3.0 will co-exist. The only reason why Apple hasn't adopted it yet is that they didn't want to use a third-party controller for it and thusly wanted to wait for Intel to natively support it in their chipsets which they won't do until Ivy Bridge.

Wait, when did this discussion change from "mobile workstations" to "high-end laptops". A MacBook Air, with 4 GB of RAM, is still a high-end laptop. The scientific work and video editing discussions are about mobile workstations.

Is Apple a major player in that particular field (mobile workstation) ? Dunno, no one gives out such specific sales number, even Apple doesn't break down on a per-model basis.

But the thing is, that particular field is a niche. It's small. Is it too small for Apple to consider it moving forward ? That's what you should be asking yourself.

4GB of RAM a high-end laptop doth not make anymore. 4GB of RAM is quickly becoming the new standard size, and given that the Air's RAM capacity can't be upgraded (and thusly the liklihood of any MacBook Air purchased today to be able to run Mac OS X 10.9 being slim) makes it a stupid buy for anyone in any professional field demanding (a) a lot out of their computer today and (b) upgradability for the longer haul. It's a consumer product. Can professionals get by with it, absolutely; but to say that it can withstand the same demands that a MacBook Pro can is shortsighted.

 

[KnightWRX]

4GB of RAM a high-end laptop doth not make anymore.

My point, which you missed by about 3 miles, was that a high end laptop is not just defined by its RAM size.

MBA are high end laptops. They are far from commodity 300$ laptops you can get at Best buy.

What they lack in sheer electronics specifications, they make up in their physical specifications and justify their price in that way.

High end laptops are not synonymous with mobile workstations, which are just big powerhouse of electronic specifications (big processors, big RAM, big storage). You can also have high end laptops which are the ultimate portable machines, or simply cheap electronics incased in gold. Saying something is "High end" only means it's in that upper price bracket.

 

[wickedking94]

MacBook pro with the Air design? great. because I want less hard drive, no dvd drive, and to pay 2000$ for one that has any usable amount of CPU/GPU power.

Goodbye MacBook Pro, you were just fine they way you were.

 

[kilohawk]

Lol, lots of 17" MBP's in our offices and you can sure as heck surf the web and do lot's of other tasks without the fans spinning up

2011 quad core???

----------

Fans spinning up is completely normal. I'm aware that "reports" exist but honestly, its from people who don't know much about computers.

I work in IT for a living and I assure you fans spinning is a normal operation. Computers shut themselves down when they overheat. If this isn't happening the cooling systems are doing their jobs and the computer isn't overheating.

i'm not 'completely' daft i know they're not overheating, but if the design of a top of the line laptop can't cool itself without telling everybody around it that it is getting warm then something isn't right. especially if your not running anything too taxing.

 

[Yebubbleman]

My point, which you missed by about 3 miles, was that a high end laptop is not just defined by its RAM size.

MBA are high end laptops. They are far from commodity 300$ laptops you can get at Best buy.

What they lack in sheer electronics specifications, they make up in their physical specifications and justify their price in that way.

High end laptops are not synonymous with mobile workstations, which are just big powerhouse of electronic specifications (big processors, big RAM, big storage). You can also have high end laptops which are the ultimate portable machines, or simply cheap electronics incased in gold. Saying something is "High end" only means it's in that upper price bracket.

I don't quite agree with that semantics assertion of yours. A $400 camcorder encrusted with diamonds for P-diddy (or whatever Sean Combs calls himself these days) to cost $3000 should not be in the same class of "high-endedness" as the camcorders that cost $3000 for their feature-set. The MacBook Air's hardware as well as the hardware of other ultrabooks shouldn't really be compared to that of a standard laptop for the price because, in a lot of ways, unless weight and thinness are the most important thing, you're paying more for less. That's not to say that the MacBook Air isn't worth its weight in gold, but to compare it to a non-ultra-book laptop in terms of anything, price included, is like comparing apples and oranges That said, I'd say that the $1,599 model 13" Air is the highest-end MacBook Air, especially compared to the $999 model 11" Air. To call it "high-end" in that context makes sense because you're comparing two like objects. But to compare the MacBook Air to a $700 PC laptop (even if the user replaces the stock hard drive with an SSD) is an Apples and oranges comparison, even if your only definition as to what is high-end or not is price.

Or am I missing more pieces of your missed argument?

 

[Cubytus]

They can want to all they want, they aren't getting more than I am giving them. There's a big difference between uploading my project files and data to a cloud provider, and sharing a few pictures here and there that I don't mind sharing with the world.

And no, I don't have a Facebook account TYVM.

Just when you sign up for their email service, you are accepting to forfeit many, many private data about you and who you write to. To a point, I seriously considered not replying by writing to people with only a G-Mail address, since I didn't want big G to store anything about me.

Then buy a 30$ from Samsung or any other brand really. No one forces you to buy the Apple option. That's the beauty of external devices.

Are they as reliable and performant as Apple's? I used to know that, if an optical disk wasn't readable in an Apple ODD, it won't be readable anywhere.

eSATA ports with PM (port multiplier) can connect 5 drives to 1 eSATA port. They show up as 5 independent drives on the host computer.

This can be done with either a 2 to 5 bay multi-drive enclosure like

Image
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816111177​

or an eSATA hub like:

Image
http://www.sataport.com/​

connected to single-bay (or multi-bay RAID) enclosures.

Yet Another Device.

Two more big parts to haul, to just reach one goal. Storage is my main one, but other professionals may have 2, 3 of them still out of reach with an hypothetical FireWire-less, ODD-less MBP.

This enclosure seems to have its place on a desk, but nowhere near portable.

Still, many other possible points of failure possible. No vendor willing to take responsibility when it eventually fails. Worse overall customer experience.

MBA are high end laptops. They are far from commodity 300$ laptops you can get at Best buy.

What they lack in sheer electronics specifications, they make up in their physical specifications and justify their price in that way.

High end laptops are not synonymous with mobile workstations, which are just big powerhouse of electronic specifications (big processors, big RAM, big storage). You can also have high end laptops which are the ultimate portable machines, or simply cheap electronics incased in gold. Saying something is "High end" only means it's in that upper price bracket.

No need to preach to converts

 

[Anthony T]

Any idea when this is supposed to be announced/released?

 

[KnightWRX]

I don't quite agree with that semantics assertion of yours. A $400 camcorder encrusted with diamonds for P-diddy (or whatever Sean Combs calls himself these days) to cost $3000 should not be in the same class of "high-endedness" as the camcorders that cost $3000 for their feature-set.

They aren't, and I'm not saying they are. One is a luxury camcorder, the other is a prosumer camcorder.

Same with a gold encrusted "luxury" laptop vs a mobile workstation vs an premium Ultrabook.

All of them are high-end, all of them have nothing in common and can't really be compared to each other.

So you don't agree, but then go and say the same thing I did. *golf clap*.

 

[jingjianasdfq63]

Laptop as a portable DVD player? Ugh!

How do you carry all your DVDs around? Do you have one of those folders that zips open with all the little plastic folders inside?

 

[KnightWRX]

Just when you sign up for their email service, you are accepting to forfeit many, many private data about you and who you write to. To a point, I seriously considered not replying by writing to people with only a G-Mail address, since I didn't want big G to store anything about me.

My work e-mail is my work e-mail and never touches Google. Any code/data/sensitive information I have I never send via e-mail either. I know how to handle my privacy. It would be weird if I didn't, seeing how I have these privacy issues with cloud providers, no ?

Are they as reliable and performant as Apple's? I used to know that, if an optical disk wasn't readable in an Apple ODD, it won't be readable anywhere.

Suffice it to say an Apple logo does not reliable and performant make.

 

[Cubytus]

Laptop as a portable DVD player? Ugh!

How do you carry all your DVDs around? Do you have one of those folders that zips open with all the little plastic folders inside?

Actually, yes. At least I find it less silly than a $150 DVD-only portable player, that won't play XviD or MKV movies and have a crappy screen. Just my two cents.

My work e-mail is my work e-mail and never touches Google. Any code/data/sensitive information I have I never send via e-mail either. I know how to handle my privacy. It would be weird if I didn't, seeing how I have these privacy issues with cloud providers, no ?

I know many people not being consistent, e.g. protesting against Apple's voluntary tracking for ads, while using every kind of G's service imaginable. Or speaking about internet freedom while handling their personal info to GMail.

Both my work and personal email don't touch Google. I'd rather pay for an IMAP server than rely too much on free provider's (although I do have Hotmail and Yahoo adresses, these providers don't track users as much as G's do)

Suffice it to say an Apple logo does not reliable and performant make.

Right. But having had a look around me, non-Apple tend to have non-working ODD very early in their lives, non-responding network adapters, colored rows or columns of pixels, and commonly, dead batteries that won't hold even a few minutes of charge. All these issues also exist on Macs, but to a much lesser extent. Still, they come out from the same factories as PCs.