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Right. But having had a look around me, non-Apple tend to have non-working ODD very early in their lives

Funny you say that, I don't think I ever had a superdrive survive 2 burn sessions. Also had to have my MBA's screen changed, the fan in my Unibody MB, 4 24" LED ACDs, an iPhone 3GS with a faulty mute switch.

Electronics have problems. That's what warranties are for. Apple isn't immune nor is it any better than anyone else in that department. The superdrives aren't anything special.
 
Hmmm, your SuperDrives must have an ill omen on them. Mine burnt tens of DVDs.

But I'm glad we're in agreement when it comes to extended warranties. Some are just another way to make free money, and some are really worth their value.
 
Are you kidding me? Merge the MBPro and the Air into one? With four different flavors? Has this been confirmed?

I'm a professional musician and require something with a dedicated GPU, a robust CPU, and the ability to record Quality Audio remotely- hence the laptop when I'm away from my studios. ( and I sure would prefer an internal ODD) Sorry, but the new one's aren't going to cut it if this is the direction they go.. I'm less than pleased to hear this, to say the least. If Mac goes this route I'm done with them for a laptop.

My 2007 15" 2.2 MBP just took a dump last month & I want a replacement and was holding-out for the next-gen MBP. Hmm...
 
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What would you guys do:

Im going away for 2 months in 2 weeks (to asia)
Ive 4 months left to get 50% tax refund because of my company (which is going to stop in May)

Buy macbook pro 15 inch anti glare model now (1950euros) or the glossy (There will be a lot a lot of heavy bright sun light and I have to use it for work as well)
Or wait for macbook pro new model and buy a cheap laptop now?

Thanks/Cheers.
 
But I'm glad we're in agreement when it comes to extended warranties. Some are just another way to make free money, and some are really worth their value.

Extended warranties ? Hell no we're not in agreement there. Electronics usually fail within the manufacturer's default warranty and if they do fail outside of it, here we have decent consumer protection laws where manufacturers don't get to not cover you after a pitiful year.

Extended warranties are a sham and unneeded.
 
What would you guys do:

Im going away for 2 months in 2 weeks (to asia)
Ive 4 months left to get 50% tax refund because of my company (which is going to stop in May)

Buy macbook pro 15 inch anti glare model now (1950euros) or the glossy (There will be a lot a lot of heavy bright sun light and I have to use it for work as well)
Or wait for macbook pro new model and buy a cheap laptop now?

Thanks/Cheers.

C: Buy the anti-glare 15" now, and if when you get back the changes to the new model are worthwhile (to you) sell the MBP and buy the new one.

The resale value of the current MBP will probably be high enough that this would cost less than throwing money away on a cheap laptop.
 
C: Buy the anti-glare 15" now, and if when you get back the changes to the new model are worthwhile (to you) sell the MBP and buy the new one.

The resale value of the current MBP will probably be high enough that this would cost less than throwing money away on a cheap laptop.

that's my plan
 
C: Buy the anti-glare 15" now, and if when you get back the changes to the new model are worthwhile (to you) sell the MBP and buy the new one.

The resale value of the current MBP will probably be high enough that this would cost less than throwing money away on a cheap laptop.

Yeah I think thats the best thign I can do right now.
Than just one quick question, as I will be my first macbook pro ever, is it worth it if you only use it for video watching and office and random internet things?

Thanks
 
They aren't, and I'm not saying they are. One is a luxury camcorder, the other is a prosumer camcorder.

Same with a gold encrusted "luxury" laptop vs a mobile workstation vs an premium Ultrabook.

All of them are high-end, all of them have nothing in common and can't really be compared to each other.

So you don't agree, but then go and say the same thing I did. *golf clap*.

I don't know where you get that from. In any event, you're saying that high-endedness is solely a matter of cost, I'm saying there's more to it than that. Toward that end, you say that the MacBook Air is a high-end laptop, in terms of machines both in and out of its class of notebook, I'd disagree. We can argue this and be frustrated with the other one's lack of agreement (and mistake that for a lack of understanding of the opposite viewpoint) or we can just agree to disagree. Your call, I'm always up for both.

Laptop as a portable DVD player? Ugh!

How do you carry all your DVDs around? Do you have one of those folders that zips open with all the little plastic folders inside?

I don't carry all of them as when am I ever out and wanting to watch all 200ish DVDs that I own? But yes, I do have a folder that zips open that has all of the optical discs that I'll ever want or need for that day and I do take them with me. Shocking that such a rare breed of person exists, I know. Shocking that I'm not all ahead of the times by having everything on an external hard drive and doing everything on my MacBook Air. Puh-leaze people! Just because you don't do it doesn't mean that (a) you have an accurate perception of how many people do (especially if you use these forums as your metric) or don't and (b) that people actually don't do it.
 
So I usually read the last comments first to see what everyone is talking about and if they're deciding whether the rumor is true or not and when the upgrade/release may actually happen but this thread is now talking about camcorders and high end vs low end, which is kinda funny. Anyways, I'm looking forward to purchasing a macbook pro thats a little lighter, even if it doesn't have an optic drive. I know that people out there still use it, but I personally haven't used one in over 2 years. In an ideal world it would allow me to upgrade it to 8gb ram and come with a good graphics card. Here's to hoping, cheers! :)
 
So I usually read the last comments first to see what everyone is talking about and if they're deciding whether the rumor is true or not and when the upgrade/release may actually happen but this thread is now talking about camcorders and high end vs low end, which is kinda funny. Anyways, I'm looking forward to purchasing a macbook pro thats a little lighter, even if it doesn't have an optic drive. I know that people out there still use it, but I personally haven't used one in over 2 years. In an ideal world it would allow me to upgrade it to 8gb ram and come with a good graphics card. Here's to hoping, cheers! :)

You kind of can't make it thinner while retaining the ability to use any sort of "good graphics card", which is something virtually everyone on these forums fails to realize.
 
I don't know where you get that from. In any event, you're saying that high-endedness is solely a matter of cost, I'm saying there's more to it than that. Toward that end, you say that the MacBook Air is a high-end laptop, in terms of machines both in and out of its class of notebook, I'd disagree. We can argue this and be frustrated with the other one's lack of agreement (and mistake that for a lack of understanding of the opposite viewpoint) or we can just agree to disagree. Your call, I'm always up for both.

So what, the MacBook Air is a low-end laptop ? Looking at laptop prices, it's pretty much up there. Again, there's many different categories at the top, and they are all defined by their specifications or characteristics, but they can all be described as high-end in their own way, even if they don't all cater to you or me or whoever.

I don't want a mobile workstation, I won't call them low-end because they're so bulky and heavy compared to a MBA. You shouldn't be calling a MBA low-end because you want more RAM and a faster processor either.

Respect that choice is important for everyone, and not everyone makes the same choices.
 
My 2007 15" 2.2 MBP just took a dump last month & I want a replacement and was holding-out for the next-gen MBP. Hmm...

You're reading a rumor. It is not confirmed. There's also a rumor of cpu delays with Ivy Bridge. It's not a huge release anyway in terms of the obvious evolutionary upgrades (updated cpu and gpu relative to what is available).

C: Buy the anti-glare 15" now, and if when you get back the changes to the new model are worthwhile (to you) sell the MBP and buy the new one.

The resale value of the current MBP will probably be high enough that this would cost less than throwing money away on a cheap laptop.

Yeah especially if you go for a simple refurb without any upgrades that carry volatile pricing models. Basically don't spend hundreds or thousands on ram, and if you upgrade to an ssd on your own, keep the original drive so you can just move the SSD into the new one months later.

You kind of can't make it thinner while retaining the ability to use any sort of "good graphics card", which is something virtually everyone on these forums fails to realize.

Thinner is an ambiguous term here. I'm tempted to reference a cheesy stephen king movie whenever someone says it. The macbook pro has always stuck with a mid range to upper mid range card in its top model. I think it's more than just component price. My guess would be that battery life is a factor too. Macbook pros aren't really marketed as gaming laptops which is usually where you see the fastest mobile cards. If they went with something close to the Air design in overall density, yeah they'd have to trim down the internals, but I don't see the point in a full migration like that. That would give you an identical machine to a fully loaded 13" aside from display size, and possibly with a larger battery.

It's possible we may see a 15" Air. I would imagine they've tested a number of designs regardless of what we see actually come to market. I mean even if we don't see something that is simply a scaled up Air, it doesn't mean a spec design was never discussed.
 
So what, the MacBook Air is a low-end laptop ? Looking at laptop prices, it's pretty much up there. Again, there's many different categories at the top, and they are all defined by their specifications or characteristics, but they can all be described as high-end in their own way, even if they don't all cater to you or me or whoever.

I don't want a mobile workstation, I won't call them low-end because they're so bulky and heavy compared to a MBA. You shouldn't be calling a MBA low-end because you want more RAM and a faster processor either.

Respect that choice is important for everyone, and not everyone makes the same choices.

I'm not criticizing your choice of buying a MacBook Air. For what you do it seems perfect. Hell, I'm not CRITICIZING anything you're doing or saying and am somewhat puzzled at your reaction here. All I'm doing is DISAGREEING with your DEFINITION of high-end. If your MacBook Air works for you, what does it matter if it is considered high-end or not, let alone by someone else on a forum? (By which I ask you, why the "jumping down my throat" reaction?)

Thinner is an ambiguous term here. I'm tempted to reference a cheesy stephen king movie whenever someone says it. The macbook pro has always stuck with a mid range to upper mid range card in its top model. I think it's more than just component price. My guess would be that battery life is a factor too. Macbook pros aren't really marketed as gaming laptops which is usually where you see the fastest mobile cards. If they went with something close to the Air design in overall density, yeah they'd have to trim down the internals, but I don't see the point in a full migration like that. That would give you an identical machine to a fully loaded 13" aside from display size, and possibly with a larger battery.

It's possible we may see a 15" Air. I would imagine they've tested a number of designs regardless of what we see actually come to market. I mean even if we don't see something that is simply a scaled up Air, it doesn't mean a spec design was never discussed.

Let me put it this way, they're not going to release a laptop with drastically inferior graphics to the one they're replacing, especially in the higher-end MacBook Pro end of things. Gaming isn't the only application of a discrete GPU; programs like Motion and AutoCAD sort of depend on a discrete GPU, and the GPUs in the 15" and 17" MacBook Pros are not the gamer-laptop GPUs we find in the real gaming laptops (and the iMac). Still, in a 15"/17" MacBook Pro, a discrete GPU is useful and if they make the computer any thinner, they sacrifice that power, and I have a feeling they won't do that for the sake of thinness.

That being said, a 15" MacBook Air would serve a need currently not being served by either the 15" MacBook Pro nor the 13" MacBook Air. The only cannibalization or merger that I could foresee is the discontinuation of the 13" MacBook Pro and the lower-end 15" MacBook Pro in favor of the 13" MacBook Air and the 15" MacBook Air, leaving the line-up to look like this:

11.6" Air Low-end
11.6" Air High-end
13.3" Air Low-end
13.3" Air High-end
15" Air
15" Pro (previously known as the high-end model)
17" Pro

I don't at all like it, but I could picture it happening all the same.
 
I'm not criticizing your choice of buying a MacBook Air. For what you do it seems perfect. Hell, I'm not CRITICIZING anything you're doing or saying and am somewhat puzzled at your reaction here. All I'm doing is DISAGREEING with your DEFINITION of high-end. If your MacBook Air works for you, what does it matter if it is considered high-end or not, let alone by someone else on a forum? (By which I ask you, why the "jumping down my throat" reaction?)

I don't think you're getting my point. I'm not offended at all or jumping down your throat, I'm saying you're defining "high-end" to mean only something "high-end" in the particular niche you cater to.

Respect that high-end is a generic term, a MacBook Air might not cater to your needs, but in its own niche, it is still a high-end product. Same as what you like, big specs, might be high-end in your niche, but I don't see the use.

The point is, your limited definition of "high-end" actually means "top of the line in the niche I like", which is quite not what high end means.

That is what I meant, respect that the high-end is populated with things that might not seem useful or desirable to you, but that doesn't make them not-high-end.
 
I don't think you're getting my point. I'm not offended at all or jumping down your throat, I'm saying you're defining "high-end" to mean only something "high-end" in the particular niche you cater to.

Respect that high-end is a generic term, a MacBook Air might not cater to your needs, but in its own niche, it is still a high-end product. Same as what you like, big specs, might be high-end in your niche, but I don't see the use.

The point is, your limited definition of "high-end" actually means "top of the line in the niche I like", which is quite not what high end means.

That is what I meant, respect that the high-end is populated with things that might not seem useful or desirable to you, but that doesn't make them not-high-end.

With respect to the Mac Notebook line and with respect solely to price, the MacBook Air is not high-end, in fact, Apple is intentionally positioning it at its low-end. A 17" MacBook Pro would be considered high-end. I can see how, if you're talking about laptops with an IGP, it's high-end; sure; I'll bet that the current 13" MacBook Airs are definitely some of the priciest laptops to come with just an Intel HD 3000. And sure, if we're talking solely about price, a MacBook Air is higher-end than a $500 Sandy Bridge Pentium notebook. Even in its own category, it's not that much higher-end than ultrabooks by the competition. Yes, a 13" Air is higher-end than an 11.6" Air or a competing 11.6" product, but it's fairly in line with what others are charging for a 13.3" ultrabook. But again, I don't agree with your definition of high-end, and it's not because the MacBook Air isn't my machine of preference and it's not because I don't respect that it is the preference of someone other than myself. Again, we're arguing semantics and on the whole, it's one of the sillier arguments to be having on here (only hairs sillier than an optical drive debate).
 
The Mac notebook line does not exist in a vaccuum. Compared to other options on the market, pretty much all Macbooks are high-end, premium laptops.

...if price is your only definition of "high-end", which it seems to be. Again, I disagree here, and I see no point to continuing an argument with things to support my viewpoint when all it boils down to is a disagreement of the definition of "high-end". Frankly, I'd rather spend the same amount of time PMing you asking you about how you like your HP TouchPad.
 
Let me put it this way, they're not going to release a laptop with drastically inferior graphics to the one they're replacing, especially in the higher-end MacBook Pro end of things. Gaming isn't the only application of a discrete GPU; programs like Motion and AutoCAD sort of depend on a discrete GPU, and the GPUs in the 15" and 17" MacBook Pros are not the gamer-laptop GPUs we find in the real gaming laptops (and the iMac). Still, in a 15"/17" MacBook Pro, a discrete GPU is useful and if they make the computer any thinner, they sacrifice that power, and I have a feeling they won't do that for the sake of thinness.

That being said, a 15" MacBook Air would serve a need currently not being served by either the 15" MacBook Pro nor the 13" MacBook Air. The only cannibalization or merger that I could foresee is the discontinuation of the 13" MacBook Pro and the lower-end 15" MacBook Pro in favor of the 13" MacBook Air and the 15" MacBook Air, leaving the line-up to look like this:

11.6" Air Low-end
11.6" Air High-end
13.3" Air Low-end
13.3" Air High-end
15" Air
15" Pro (previously known as the high-end model)
17" Pro

I don't at all like it, but I could picture it happening all the same.

Heh... you know I feel like I never know with Apple. Hardware rarely seems to be at the top of their priority list. Some of the cad and 3d programs do certify macbook pros to run their software. Autocad is one of those. They always skip the integrated graphics models due to lack of dedicated vram, overall poor graphics drivers, and lack of power in general. You're completely correct on that. I kind of figured they'd make a 15" Air. I'm sure they've gone through testing for a variety of designs. If by some remote chance they do thin it out to the extreme, you're right, it wouldn't be able to fit comparable innards. People have reported near 100C while gaming on an Air. Even if they could physically fit the hardware of the macbook pro into such a package, it would run too hot under strenuous use meaning they'd have to throttle it or run the entire thing below native clock speed, and at that point what is the point in using it at all?

They have the entirety of the ulv range covered by the Airs. I don't think we'll see any immense changes. If we do, I won't buy one. I don't think Apple cares about this stuff anymore.
 
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Most of you seem to forget that not everything is "watching a movie", and that "entertainment" is not the only function of the optical disk drive.

Many of us (and I'm sure we're not the majority) need to work with files on an optical disk other than "movies that can be ripped". Case in hand, almost all the patients that undergo an MRI, a CAT scan, an EEG, a polysomnography, or some other imaging or physiological paraclinical tests recibe (and later hand you for reviewing) an optical disc with the study data, besides the written report.

I work in different locations (at least 2 separate offices) and mobility/portability is important to me --sometimes I don't carry even the AC brick because is inconvenient--, so bringing along another accessory (in this case, an external Superdrive) is out of the question.


Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)
...It's not that big of a deal if Apple gets rid of the ODD. Many people have options and if they still need an ODD then there's the external or another product altogether...

Looks like your another one who has never heard of the external super drive...

Lugging around another accessory is not convenient. Macuserx86 even calls it a "horribly backwards" solution. And it's "you're".


Rip the DVDs...
... With stuff like Netflix/Hulu and digital downloads there is no point to dvd/br's and all software can be easily put on the app store.

Again, not everyone uses the ODD just to watch movies. And not all software can be "easily put on the app store".


...constantly having to carry external ...accessories just to recoup lost functionality is horribly backwards...
If you have software you use all the time that requires CD's or DVD's to be used, then an external drive is annoying...

Exactly my point.

... I mean, who uses optical drives anymore?

Lots of people that WORK with CURRENT standards (We're a minority, though, I concede). And it's not that files in optical disks are the best thing in the universe, but it is the standard many industries (not hollywood) CURRENTLY use.


...Optical drives are dinosaurs and need to die off, not to mention an external USB optical drive can be had for $25-$35...

Just exactly like the USD $0.5-$2 that optical discs sell for. But again, I'm not arguing that DVDs are the future and the answer to every data storage and transfer problem there is, I'm not even suggesting they are most cost-effective. I'm just stating that they are convenient, and sometimes unavoidable in certain lines of work.
 
you asking you about how you like your HP TouchPad.

I think it's useless frankly. I use it as a clock on my kitchen counter. Using it as a web browser or anything for more than 2 minutes makes me miss my laptop. :(

Fortunately, I didn't pay iPad prices to find out what I knew : I hate the tablet form factor.
 
Lugging around another accessory is not convenient. Macuserx86 even calls it a "horribly backwards" solution. And it's "you're".

If Mr. Macuserx86 calls it "horribly backwards", then I call it "delightfully progressive". I'd like to add that the weight of both the Air and the Superdrive together, still weigh less and probably has less volume still than the Macbook Pro 13".

Lots of people that WORK with CURRENT standards (We're a minority, though, I concede).

Then you already know what Apple will do. The only reason why there is heated debate on this subject is because the steadily declining ODD user base like to believe what they think is right, and don't stop to think how Apple thinks and behaves themselves on these particular issues.
 
Extended warranties ? Hell no we're not in agreement there. Electronics usually fail within the manufacturer's default warranty and if they do fail outside of it, here we have decent consumer protection laws where manufacturers don't get to not cover you after a pitiful year.

Extended warranties are a sham and unneeded.
Strange. All my electronic devices were keen on failing just days or weeks outside the standard 1-year warranty.

Plus, I don't know where you live, but surely it is not Québec. Here, standard manufacturers warranties are most commonly 1-year long, unless you buy the devices with a warranty-doubling credit card. Typical retailers (Future Shoppe, e.g.) usually don't take back your product after 30 days, as they're not legally obliged to cover manufacturer's defects. Most of them even won't help you ship the device back to the manufacturer if it fails.

@cdcastillo: Geez, even being in the medical research field, I haven't realized how much MD exchanged data by a so-called sneaker-net.

In many medical settings, wi-fi is forbidden, and since you're on the go, you can't always find a wired network. USB keys are cheap, but still 10 times more expensive than a good-quality DVD-R.

Research settings typically mix dinosaur-era storage with top-of-the line technology. I saw rows of ZIP disks, even 5.25" diskettes and the corresponding drive, gathering dust along with a same-era Mac, but still usable. I personally worked for months acquiring data from specifically encoded VHS tapes after shuffling through tens of pounds of printouts.

More recent data fills cabinets of CD-Rs and DVD-Rs, as per journal requirements to keep data for at least 25 years.

Many researchers have a hard time trusting HDD, since they tend to fail quite early. Plus, cost of data recovery is prohibitive, and bears no guarantee of success.

Having a few illegible optical discs in a drawer isn't the end of the world. But having a dead HDD containing at least 100 DVD worth of data is serious.

Many major software we use don't get updated as much as smaller editor's. Plus, some of them being terribly expensive, we don't update them as often as new version come out. Also, when there are many computers to install, it's much more efficient to keep a local copy on DVD to hand out, just in case.

Currently, I keep all my data on internal HDD, and burn DVDs on an as-needed basis.

They have limitations, too: e.g. how do you distribute a 12GB application suite in order to install it quickly, without worrying about the media cost?


Democratization shouldn't be an absolute goal. To me, its meaning is just too close from comfort from "design by committee", a concept that is definitely un-Apple.

I believe that truly good products shouldn't have to bend to each and every requirement from the mass. If so many people bought it in the first place, they must have found it worth to get despite a few quirks. Ironing out all kind of difference isn't good.
 
Strange. All my electronic devices were keen on failing just days or weeks outside the standard 1-year warranty.

Plus, I don't know where you live, but surely it is not Québec. Here, standard manufacturers warranties are most commonly 1-year long, unless you buy the devices with a warranty-doubling credit card. Typical retailers (Future Shoppe, e.g.) usually don't take back your product after 30 days, as they're not legally obliged to cover manufacturer's defects. Most of them even won't help you ship the device back to the manufacturer if it fails.

Hum, yes I do live in Quebec, and if you don't know, the law here is clear and so is the legal precedents :

http://www2.publicationsduquebec.go...lecharge.php?type=2&file=/P_40_1/P40_1_A.html
CHAPTER III
PROVISIONS RELATING TO CERTAIN CONTRACTS

DIVISION I
WARRANTIES
...

37. Goods forming the object of a contract must be fit for the purposes for which goods of that kind are ordinarily used.

Extended warranties are a sham because you're already covered by the Consumer Protection Act and the "fit for the purposes". Small claims court have given awards based on the simple fact that no, a refrigator is not something you change every year. Same for a TV or computer. 1 year warranties in Quebec are illegal basically, unless the good sold is something that has only a year of expected life.

So yes, I'm from Quebec, it's just that I actually know the law that protects me. Pays to know your rights. ;)
 
That means most retailers are illegally. I note that the law doesn't stick a timeframe on what is supposed to be a reasonable warranty, even if I agree that most devices and appliances aren't supposed to fail so early.

Article 38 states:
38. Goods forming the object of a contract must be durable in normal use for a reasonable length time, having regard to their price, the terms of the contract and the conditions of their use.

but doesn't define what a "reasonable length time" is in regard to price. If I'm poor, does it means that the "reasonable length time" must be longer?

49. The merchant or the manufacturer shall assume the real cost of transportation or shipping incurred in respect of the performance of a conventional warranty, unless otherwise stipulated in the writing evidencing the warranty.
I understand that would make it illegal to ask for any kind of payment to use our right to warranty... Yet many manufacturers do ask for a defective device to be shipped at a consumer's expense.

It is also illegal to sell a PC including Windows inside (since they come from a different manufacturer), yet they do it.

Right, they're acting illegally, but good luck defending your rights against a foreign company. And who is actually willing to go up in court, spending weeks while a product is being held by the manufacturer, or otherwise unusable?
 
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