More Details on Apple's Intel Mac

[ailleur]

I think some of you are WAY too much in love with your macs.

Its like, if you wont hear the lil chimes and the white apple logo when the thing boots, youll throw it out the windows.
Heres a solution, push the power button, dont turn on the screen, and walk away from the room.
When you come back and its booted, you wont even be able to tell how the little piece of silicon inside your case treats the data your OS is sending to it.

 

[Macmaniac]

People really need to calm down, Apple is just shipping a Dev kit, just because it has integrated graphics card does not mean that we will not have good graphics cards when the actual machines come out. Calm down people, I hope MR does not become two camps for the next two years. I hope the transition goes smoothly, I don't want this to get too ugly.

 

[boat]

Damn it, do none of you even know what BIOS means? well I'll tell you, it stands for basic input output system, it is an integral part of every computer that tells the computer how to talk to it's most basic hardware like the keyboard and mouse. your current mac has a BIOS, it might be proprietary but it essentially does a simple task and you wont notice any difference. so please stop talking about this as if it matters or you understand the implications of it when you clearly have no idea!!

secondly, what makes a mac a mac is the software, they can throw any type of chip in there they want as long as it runs os x quickly and beautify i don't really care what's powering it.

the other thing that makes a mac a mac is the great hardware designs, and just like os x, these wont be going away. i don't think the powerbook is awesome because of the g4 in it, i think it's awesome because it's tiny, well-designed and gets good battery life. why does anyone think switching chip architectures is going to change apple's entire design philosophy.

and os x wont run on standard pc boxes if apple doesn't want it to

and finally, viruses attack weaknesses in software not hardware, so mac os x will be just as secure as it ever was.

 

[Peace]

I build a lot of PCs too - and honestly I think you are just not used to looking at the MB upside down

That 'fan built into the MB' IS the fan on the CPU, that thing you are looking at with no fan on it is one of the controller chips on the MB.

It looks like a pretty stock system to me. Its just a dev box, this whole conversation is pointless, the real deal will have nothing to do with it at all.

The only thing I'm concerned about is the lack of open firmware, but that's due to the developer docs at apples site. We have no information if they will end up using BIOS (the fact that the dev box uses it is meaningless) - and this dev box is nothing to base any conclutions on at all except for one thing:
The new Apples will run on x86.

That's all there is to see here, and we already knew that.

Thanks Bug.I've admitted to my old time PC building twice now

 

[tdar]

Do you guys think that Apple will still be shipping Dual processor Mactels?
Perhaps it will as it is now, low end PowerMac single, and the rest of PowerMacs Dual processor workstations. I sure hope so, I got used to seeing to CPU in the PowerMacs.

Sure and they will be Xeon's!!!

 

[benja55]

Modern PC's do not show boot up Bios messages unless someting does not work right....Boot up a new Dell....you'll see the Dell logo and then the Windows XP splash screen.....In fact that is required in the MS OEM agreement....no doubt that Apple will do it on their systems too....

Shows you the last time I booted a PC.

 

[joeboy_45101]

Yes, and couldn't Apple make a custom motherboard? ... and wouldn't that make it even more difficult to install OSX on another PC system?

Well, Apple is obviously going to keep designing and using their own logic boards. Machines like the Mac mini, iMac, and eMac all need their own custom boards to run on. And for the PowerMac's, PowerBooks, and iBooks Apple will probably continue to design the logic boards since it's usually a point of pride when they can get powerful machines into compact or innovative designs.

As far as a BIOS goes, I think it would be in Apple's best interest to probably stick with OpenFirmware since they have so much time and effort invested into it already. I don't believe the Developer Kits represent any future design or feature that will be around when the iNtel Mac's start to ship.

 

[ailleur]

Reply to the fuss about the motherboard

As was pointed to me in another thread, it seems its a BTX motherboard, a new thermal design made by intel.

Google it up, or theres an article about it on anandtech.

 

[Quixcube]

Why go backwards?

BIOS is bad. Very bad. It is limited to 256 kilobytes and VGA-only resolution. No mouse input either. Open Firmware is far more..... better. It allows you to trouble shoot hardware, change preferences, etc. Even use color. Nearly every single PC manufacture wants to get away from the BIOS, but they can't. Windows is too locked into it. I mean, to change the boot order on a Mac with Open Firmware you... don't. OF takes care of it. BIOS is a POS.

[...]

My favorite Mac trick is starting into FireWire target disk mode. I've used it to backup data, save data off of a hard drive (PC hard drive, long story), and install OS X. Also, pressing Option on boot is the only way to get from OS 9 to OS X if your OS X is on an HFSX volume and OS 9 is on an HFS+ volume. Otherwise, you're screwed.
Oh, and the Apple Hardware Test on newer computers. Those do the same Option trick because they are on the SAME DVD as the Software restore! You use Option to choose AHT instead of OS X install.

I agree. Standard BIOS can't do what Apple already offers in OF. I don't think Apple plans to get rid of existing features in future products. They just got the migration wizard really singing, which uses Firewire target disk mode. Why do away with it?

Why does anyone think they would? If anything, it will be expanded to be Firewire/USB 2.0 target disk mode.

 

[iPoster]

- No Open Firmware. Uses Phoenix BIOS.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooo! Embrace the power of the Dark Side!

Well, I guess that was to be expected though. At least it looks like the Mac gaming performance should be on a par with Windoze, depending on API's/Drivers, in 2-3 years.

 

[jarodsix]

that turned out to be a joke, and the kid apoligized afterwords.

The glowing green light is amazing!!! I want would want a powermac just because of the case! You could tune it to include some really fancy effects.

 

[papersushi]

When Intel-based Macs come out, you bet developers will be supporting PPC crows. The installed base of PPC will be a lot larger than the new Intel-based Macs for many years. Software developers develop softwares to sell, to make money. You want to sell them to broader customers.

 

[steeldrivingjon]

Get a hold of yourself

I really hope this doesn't mean intergrated graphics (shared ram and all) in future macs:

Why on earth would Apple spend extra on the video card in a freaking temporary loaner meant to tide developers over until the real Intel Macs ship?

 

[tdar]

Well, Apple is obviously going to keep designing and using their own logic boards. Machines like the Mac mini, iMac, and eMac all need their own custom boards to run on. And for the PowerMac's, PowerBooks, and iBooks Apple will probably continue to design the logic boards since it's usually a point of pride when they can get powerful machines into compact or innovative designs.

As far as a BIOS goes, I think it would be in Apple's best interest to probably stick with OpenFirmware since they have so much time and effort invested into it already. I don't believe the Developer Kits represent any future design or feature that will be around when the iNtel Mac's start to ship.

I think this is going to be the most interesting part of all of this ...will the PM's use a Apple designed MB or a Custom Intel board like Dell uses.....The Cost difference is very big......and I bet part of this change is about getting lower prices....

 

[tdar]

Reply to the fuss about the motherboard

As was pointed to me in another thread, it seems its a BTX motherboard, a new thermal design made by intel.

Google it up, or theres an article about it on anandtech.

No doubt that the PM's will be BTX....and maybe the Imac's too....

 

[dicklacara]

If this x86 version of OSX leaks, you will have every wintel person
running OSX 2 years before the new MACs come out.

And that would be bad, how?

... Considering that when the Real, fleshed-out, OS X Intel is released it will only run on Macs?

...lotsa' ways to assure this!

 

[abluesky]

Reply to the fuss about the motherboard

As was pointed to me in another thread, it seems its a BTX motherboard, a new thermal design made by intel.

Google it up, or theres an article about it on anandtech.

I believe it is a 945G chipset.
http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/945g/index.htm

This chipset supports the 660
http://www.intel.com/products/processor/pentium4/

could be this mother board...
http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/tp/

...

 

[ruud]

Even if the devkit machines use integrated graphics, they do support CoreImage. Watch the keynote stream where Jobs adds dashboard widgets, and see the ripple effect. (Assuming Jobs used the same system as the devkits).

 

[wildworldofspor]

history reduex
sgi and intel, sun and pc components, compaq and alpha all great products which had to succeed to windows and intel. None had a good outcome but of course the outcome wasn't going thier way anyhow. I wonder if apple can sell an X86 for the same markup as they have now...sgi couldn't. maybe to home users..... xserves i would doubt it. I still wonder if they will open OSX to any pc hardware as they will need volume if they cant get the markup

 

[ailleur]

I believe it is a 945G chipset.
http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/945g/index.htm

This board supports the 660
http://www.intel.com/products/processor/pentium4/

...

Possible, but BTX is a form factor, not a chipset, its set to "replace" ATx on the desktop pc market, but i dont see it happening any time soon.
And google seems to suggest the 945G is available in a BTX form factor.
And they were designed for none other than DELL! oh the irony.

 

[dicklacara]

I'm curious if the new Mactel platform will support one of my favorite features, that of target disk mode. Will the various keystroke combos that can be used at boot be the same? That is to say, will I need to learn a new skillset to effectively use the mactel?

Nah, a lobotomy will take care of the differences?

 

[JW Pepper]

I would like to see someone change the date on the dev box to see if the OS will still run in 2007. I suspect that there are all sorts of things embedded to prevent the leak of dev OS's

 

[balconycollapse]

"Dar, those intel chips in that G5 box are...unnattractive" -The SeaCaptain

I know they will look rad eventually...

 

[brap]

Reply to the fuss about the motherboard

As was pointed to me in another thread, it seems its a BTX motherboard, a new thermal design made by intel.

Google it up, or theres an article about it on anandtech.

Or, you could read the BTX design guide (warning: 4mb), in which it becomes clear this isn't a BTX design at all. Note the memory at 90 degrees to natural airflow. It's an upside-down ATX.

This is not to say new ones won't be BTX -- but there's enough FUD in this thread already.

 

[Brian0523]

OMG!

OMG you whining idiots need a reality check. Apple has clearly stated that they WILL NOT ALLOW OS X to run on any PC's other than those sold by Apple. Dell owners will not be able to buy and install OS X on their boxes.

Get a freaking grip. Stop your bitching, and take a deep breath so the blood can flow back in to your brain.