iPod More Microsoft Zune BS, Secret Goal=Make Ipod Cost More

[philips]

No-Go.

First, I'm convinced that the labels are doomed and the economics of selling 'bits' of data that software turns into sound is totally different from the vinyl albums of yesteryear.

Well, I got tired half way reading the topic - so I'll just post my thoughts in the end of the thread

Gov't wouldn't allow music industry to tax another (adjacent) industry. (*) One of the goals of gov't is to ensure growth and diversity of markets. That comes directly from constitution, ppl. RIAA wouldn't succeed unless it would amend constitution - luckily (for them) the same democrats who approved DMCA came back to power.

If RIAA would succeed, then I expect biggest benefiter to be McDonalds - you hardly can counter that to work and work productively people have to eat. Without food industry no other industry can exist. We all benefit from food. So why not to fork them off a buck or two?

(*) There are/were exceptions. For example IBM and other big computer companies were obliged to pay special fees for computer-related education in Universities. Until market had diversified itself to the point of self-sustainability. The template: something expensive (often paid by public money) with few benefiters. Then the few benefiters might be obliged to pay. Education is expensive and few companies 30 years back could have afforded computers. Music production isn't expensive. And there are whole bunch of benefiters.

 

[matticus008]

Gov't wouldn't allow music industry to tax another (adjacent) industry. (*) One of the goals of gov't is to ensure growth and diversity of markets. That comes directly from constitution, ppl. RIAA wouldn't succeed unless it would amend constitution - luckily (for them) the same democrats who approved DMCA came back to power.

Where, exactly, does the Constitution say anything about government fostering growth and diversity of economic markets? None of this has anything to do with amending the Constitution.

As for the DMCA--it was authored by a Republican representative and later passed unanimously in the Senate, which as we all know, was a Republican-controlled body. The people who passed the DMCA never left power, with the exception of Bill Clinton, who merely signed the bill like presidents do 90%+ of the time.

 

[pseudobrit]

(Reuters) TURIN, Italy - Fiat S.p.A, majority owner of Ferrari, has come to an agreement with 46 US states regarding speed limits being violated with their sports cars. Under the agreement, Ferrari will pay an undisclosed fee for every vehicle sold in the US. "The fact is that many Ferrari buyers later go on to violate many – and sometimes all – of our traffic laws. We think that Ferrari are partially culpable for providing the vehicles in which these laws are broken. Their advertising, styling and brand image are no doubt responsible for many drivers' decisions to go very fast. The powerful engines and capable suspensions and brakes facilitate such behaviour. Many unticketed incidents result from these infractions and automakers must atone for this loss of state revenue" said Jack Thompson, lawyer for the states.

 

[MacGopher]

I'll have to add this to my list at gotzuned.com

 

[jcdenton]

I'm not sure the Canadian model is a good one to compare this to.

In the Canadian case, the tax was levied by government, and there was a tradeoff involved. We pay a minor cost for the media, which is irritating - but in exchange, we also have no legal difficulties associated with sharing music electronically. The Canadian RIAA (CRIA) made one attempt at a RIAA-style lawsuit a few years ago and lost in court; it hasn't tried again since.

Sounds like a bad model for a country that ALSO has the DMCA, etc. to worry about, though.

 

[colocolo]

SRSound, may i recommend reading the book "The Long Tail"?

It has some really good insights on how industries are shifting economic models these days.

 

[Flowbee]

One of the goals of gov't is to ensure growth and diversity of markets. That comes directly from constitution, ppl.

As your location is listed as Germany, are you referring to the German constitution? Because I don't remember the US Constitution addressing market growth anywhere.

 

[groovebuster]

Did anybody read this????

http://www.flx-tech.net/2006/11/zune_on_early_sale_at_bestbuy_1.html

Hahahaha... sooo funny!

groovebuster

 

[Macnoviz]

Did anybody read this????

http://www.flx-tech.net/2006/11/zune_on_early_sale_at_bestbuy_1.html

Hahahaha... sooo funny!

groovebuster

Classic

 

[emotion]

Did anybody read this????

http://www.flx-tech.net/2006/11/zune_on_early_sale_at_bestbuy_1.html

Hahahaha... sooo funny!

haha priceless.

 

[pilotError]

Zune Yahoo Poll

Anyone catch the Yahoo Zune Poll in Yahoo's finance page?

http://finance.yahoo.com

I also love how they are going to release it on a Tuesday...

Results so Far:

Microsoft's portable music player -- Zune -- will be released on Tuesday. Do you plan to buy one?

Yes 8%
No 82%
Maybe 11%
29926 Votes to date

 

[APPLENEWBIE]

A good desk top

I find that the error message / girl photo makes a nice desktop....

 

[Dunepilot]

This "Vinyl 4Ever!" nonsense has got to stop.

The truth is that vinyl is not a great medium. Yeah, I said it. There are many reasons for this, chief among them that the record sounds worse every time you play it. There's also the crap with buying a brand new record (made of recycled PVC) that already has clicks and pops in it. The static charge that accumulates, cheerfully gluing dust into the tiny nooks and crooks of your "Kenny Rogers and the First Edition" LP. Clicks, pops, skips, wow, flutter, tonearm vibrations, a noise floor that is put to shame by normal consumer grade digital stuff. Each copy made is inferior.

<snip>

Pft... keep the damned vinyl. It's crap. Seriously.

Well, we've all now read your opinion on the matter, and yes, there's some truth in some of this - caring for your vinyl records etc. But I have to argue against you, as someone who's recently been converted to the virtues of vinyl. Guess what - it sounds leagues better than the equivalent CD on modestly-priced equipment. I've re-purchased a number of albums recently on vinyl, and the improvement is marked. Yes, it doesn't have the convenience factor of CD, but quite frankly any solid medium is really inconvenient when you compare its portability with that of a digital file.

Quite frankly, you should educate yourself better on this topic, at vinyl anachronist.

 

[emotion]

Well, we've all now read your opinion on the matter, and yes, there's some truth in some of this - caring for your vinyl records etc. But I have to argue against you, as someone who's recently been converted to the virtues of vinyl. Guess what - it sounds leagues better than the equivalent CD on modestly-priced equipment.

A lot of the difference is in the mastering to a format like vinyl and the rest is in the slight distortion that vinyl playing equipment introduces to the sound. CD mastering generally compresses (in audio terms, not in terms of bits) the sound so it sounds, to some ears, brighter. Like radio does. Some people like this and perceive CDs as sounding "better".

I personally buy all my music on vinyl and record to my laptop (for djing and listening purposes). I prefer the way this sounds. It's also a hard habit to kick, my house is full of vinyl.

This discussion is academic though, it's looking like vinyl might be disappearing at some point soon as all the lacquer manufacturers die out. Most vinyl is produced as a labour of love these days and the same goes for the lacquers used in it's manufacture. There's only so long these people will keep on doing this so enjoy vinyl while it lasts.

 

[weg]

What's next? Does the music industry get paid for every CD player sold, every radio, every hard drive (after all, they store music too)?

Uhmm.. welcome to Europe? Don't tell me that you don't pay a fee for every writable CD and for every hard-disk in the US

 

[milo]

Well, we've all now read your opinion on the matter, and yes, there's some truth in some of this - caring for your vinyl records etc. But I have to argue against you, as someone who's recently been converted to the virtues of vinyl. Guess what - it sounds leagues better than the equivalent CD on modestly-priced equipment. I've re-purchased a number of albums recently on vinyl, and the improvement is marked. Yes, it doesn't have the convenience factor of CD, but quite frankly any solid medium is really inconvenient when you compare its portability with that of a digital file.

Meh. Been there, done that. I've had enough of the hissing, crackling, popping, etc. I'll happily take my digital formats, thank you very much.

 

[emotion]

Meh. Been there, done that. I've had enough of the hissing, crackling, popping, etc. I'll happily take my digital formats, thank you very much.

If you don't like the sound then that's cool. Is it a problem if others like vinyl?

 

[kalisphoenix]

Well, we've all now read your opinion on the matter, and yes, there's some truth in some of this - caring for your vinyl records etc. But I have to argue against you, as someone who's recently been converted to the virtues of vinyl.

Fine -- but understand that I've already been there and done that. I had inherited a 1000+ LP collection from my parents, who cared for the collection meticulously, and a quite decent Numark turntable with a brand new cartridge. I'm not talking about what you get when you go down to Goodwill and buy a $2.50 copy of Neil Diamond's Jonathan Livingston Seagull soundtrack that was used as a toilet seat cover.

Now I'm perfectly happy listening to ALAC's through a Logitech Z-5450 setup. Missing in the midrange, but otherwise sounds just as good as anything I've ever heard, and my audiophile friend (note the singular -- I don't suffer fools gladly) has spent thousands on Cerwyn Vegas and Focals and Klipsch and other ridiculously expensive components. And when I'm not listening to the Logitechs, I have Grado SR-125's on.

Guess what - it sounds leagues better than the equivalent CD on modestly-priced equipment.

Can you provide me with some sort of source for this? I mean, obviously a quality judgment is subjective... but maybe you can say that CDs have less dynamic range (they don't), or they have less frequency range (they don't), or dithering is the devil (digital is always better for the same price), or whatever. Just something that didn't come flying out of some audiophile's mouth -- something that has actual physics or experiments or something to back it up.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not unfamiliar with these theories. My audiophile friend has paid over $200 for a 3-foot audio cable before. And he's not stupid -- we were both nuclear power plant operators in the Navy, and he worked for a few years as a car stereo installer. And he says the exact same crap about analog vs. digital: "No, Kalisphoenix, you can totally hear the difference. CDs suck, man."

I've re-purchased a number of albums recently on vinyl, and the improvement is marked.

Where is it marked? Get some audiometers or something, show me the difference, and, for God's sake, make sure that you aren't listening to two different mixes. I've fought before with, for an example, imbeciles comparing the LP Aoxomoxoa with the CD Aoxomoxoa, which were mixed completely differently by two different people. Beatles albums, Beach Boys albums? Make sure both are mono.

Mix differences are legendary in their abilities to make one recording sound wonderful and another sound like utter crap -- hence the reason for these exhaustive remasterings that come out for popular albums.

Yes, it doesn't have the convenience factor of CD, but quite frankly any solid medium is really inconvenient when you compare its portability with that of a digital file.

Damn straight. Evolution is a wonderful thing.

Quite frankly, you should educate yourself better on this topic, at vinyl anachronist.

Reading some random guy's rants? Who is he, and what is your solid objective proof that he has better ears than me? The top result on Google for "Marc Phillips" was a guy selling rugs...

*shrugs*

 

[hulugu]

'm not talking about what you get when you go down to Goodwill and buy a $2.50 copy of Neil Diamond's Jonathan Livingston Seagull soundtrack that was used as a toilet seat cover.

That's a terrible example, that album sounds horrible no matter what you do to it. That's the music they play in hell.


Vinyl has a fair bit of voodoo attached to it. Part of that comes, I believe, from the inherent rituals vinyl has. There's more reverence to putting on an old vinyl disk, setting the needle just right, listening to the sound pop for just a second and then music comes from the ether. CDs and digital files are more pedestrian, more immediate and convenient. Vinyl is the tea ceremony of music.

 

[Ugg]

Vinyl has a fair bit of voodoo attached to it. Part of that comes, I believe, from the inherent rituals vinyl has. There's more reverence to putting on an old vinyl disk, setting the needle just right, listening to the sound pop for just a second and then music comes from the ether. CDs and digital files are more pedestrian, more immediate and convenient. Vinyl is the tea ceremony of music.

....and vinyl does not even come close to the real thing. The ritual involved in a concert hall or outdoor theatre or local coffeehouse far surpasses any attempt at capturing the music for private consumption. Those who praise vinyl over cds as opposed to the real thing are simply ill-learned luddites

 

[hulugu]

....and vinyl does not even come close to the real thing. The ritual involved in a concert hall or outdoor theatre or local coffeehouse far surpasses any attempt at capturing the music for private consumption. Those who praise vinyl over cds as opposed to the real thing are simply ill-learned luddites

Public rituals and private rituals are different, both have their place. I wouldn't call LP-adherents luddites necessarily, just those who think that CDs and digital formats are completely inferior to vinyl.
Each has their place, just as the tea ceremony. If I want something with breakfast, I'm boiling a pot or nuking the water in the microwave, but if I want ceremony and meditation, I can see enjoying a tea ceremony.

 

[Ugg]

Public rituals and private rituals are different, both have their place. I wouldn't call LP-adherents luddites necessarily, just those who think that CDs and digital formats are completely inferior to vinyl.
Each has their place, just as the tea ceremony. If I want something with breakfast, I'm boiling a pot or nuking the water in the microwave, but if I want ceremony and meditation, I can see enjoying a tea ceremony.

I agree but personally, I don't want my life cluttered up with all the paraphenalia necessary to pursue so many rituals. I don't have a stereo or TV, just my Mac and see no point in devoting all the money, time, energy and space to having a separate system just because from time to time it might be nice to engage in some arcane ritual. Am I missing out? Maybe, but as a result, I have more time, energy and money to pursue those things that really matter to me.

Vinyl will never make a serious comeback, it's simply too fragile and non-portable, for those who enjoy it, great, enjoy it! Don't believe for a second however that it will ever occupy any more than a niche in the wall of music history.

 

[hulugu]

I agree but personally, I don't want my life cluttered up with all the paraphenalia necessary to pursue so many rituals. I don't have a stereo or TV, just my Mac and see no point in devoting all the money, time, energy and space to having a separate system just because from time to time it might be nice to engage in some arcane ritual. Am I missing out? Maybe, but as a result, I have more time, energy and money to pursue those things that really matter to me.

Vinyl will never make a serious comeback, it's simply too fragile and non-portable, for those who enjoy it, great, enjoy it! Don't believe for a second however that it will ever occupy any more than a niche in the wall of music history.

Hey, I agree. I don't have vinyl either. I make the crude mistake of playing music over the Airport Expresses I have all over the house from the Mac in the office. I have good speakers and a nice amp, but I don't have a dedicated system because I'm like you, I have better things to fiddle with. But, I like the ritual of vinyl, even if it's only a speck in history.

I wish CDs and digital files could have the art of vinyl though, for instance the cover to Bitches Brew is just awesome, but the CD leaves much to be desired, and while I really enjoy CoverFlow, it's only equivalent if you have a great scan and a 30" monitor.

 

[bartelby]

Much of the music I listen to sounds better on vinyl. There's a warmth to it that cds just can't match.

On my cheap system there's, obviously, more detail to be heard on CDs but it's too clinical.
On high end systems vinyl can be just as detailed as cds but it still sounds nicer!

 

[Ugg]

I wish CDs and digital files could have the art of vinyl though, for instance the cover to Bitches Brew is just awesome, but the CD leaves much to be desired, and while I really enjoy CoverFlow, it's only equivalent if you have a great scan and a 30" monitor.

Album art has never made an impression on me, so it's not a big loss.

When MTV came out, I was absolutely enthralled. Yes' "Owner of a Lonely Heart" was ingenious. MTV has since become something different but those early days were heady, indeed. MTV really bothered a friend of mine. He felt that the visuals destroyed whatever idea of the music that he had in his head. I'm sure the advent of TV itself was treated the same way.

I guess we all process music differently and the hiss, crackle, pop and the ritual of vinyl may be just as important to some people as the music itself. Personally, the iTMS and the iPod have totally transformed my relation to music. I've stopped listening to music radio, and for the most part find new music through friends or browsing the iTMS or through the web. I'm much more likely to sit down and really enjoy music now that all that I have accompanies me almost everywhere.

Digital music is more than just convenience to me, it's the availabilty.