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More on Booting Windows on the Intel Mac?

Airforce said:
Wow, your university is willing to pay for 3 OS licenses for each machine? Must be nice having all that money allocated to your department :(
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they would pay for only one and then would run it on apples
 
jrhone said:
OK we are on the same page....I agree 100%...there will be a software virtual environment WITHIN OSX that will allow windows to run at full, or near full speed. I don't think we will see a dual boot system for LOTS of reasons....I for one think people would go the OTHER way....use the mac more for Windows than OSX....even though OSX is better, people dont like change.....and if they dont HAVE to use OSX, they wont. there are some that would, but the masses would not.....
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Well, I do think we will see people dual-booting--it's just not the method I would choose for running Windows! (For the security and productivity reasons noted.) Some people will do it, though--I expect it to be made to work sooner rather than later. (Not by Apple or MS, but by someone on the outside.)

As for most dual-OS Mac people (if I understand your comment) using Mac to run Windows rather than OS X, I disagree--some will, but most dual-OS Mac owners will lean towards OS X:

* People who PLAN to avoid OS X will still end up wanting to check out OS X and iLife that they just spent money on. Spending cash makes people curious :)

* Apple hardware is great, but it's not the main reason to buy a Mac. Some will buy a Mac for that alone but it would be a big trend.

* You're right that "the masses" won't bother learning a second OS if Windows is running on their Mac just fine. BUT "the masses" aren't the people who will be sneaking Windows onto their Macs in the first place. They're people who, if they manage to take the risk of trying a Mac, probably don't even know what an OS is. They'll stick with what's on there.
 
PtMD said:
Have you heard anything about when VMWare may be releasing a product to OSX as a host OS?
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I asked them. They said they wont comment on unreleased products.
 
I just dont understand, but apparently this is a hot topic? Why would anyone want to run Windows on a Mac? :confused:

Am I the only one who is lost here or is this whole undertaking inconsequential?
 
brepublican said:
I just dont understand, but apparently this is a hot topic? Why would anyone want to run Windows on a Mac? :confused:

Am I the only one who is lost here or is this whole undertaking inconsequential?
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Windows on Mac is indeed inconsequential for very many people, like yourself. They don't need Windows at all and they don't want it.

Why would OTHER people want (or need) to run Windows? I will refer you to pages 1-3, 5-7, and 8 of this thread. Also page 4. :)

I myself need it only rarely--mainly for testing Windows apps I build on Mac for Windows clients of mine.
 
brepublican said:
I just dont understand, but apparently this is a hot topic? Why would anyone want to run Windows on a Mac? :confused:

Am I the only one who is lost here or is this whole undertaking inconsequential?
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Some people (sadly) are forced to carry around 2 laptops, their Mac (because they like it), and then a Windows for work.
This could save those people a lot of hassle and money.
 
killr_b said:
What's that little note at the bottom????- "*Note: I refuse to use the title MacBook. While I’m not one to get hung up on names its stupid to change it for the heck of it when you have a perfectly good, and well known, name in use already. All asterisks in my post denote the substitution of MacBook with PowerBook. If you have a problem with that take it up with management."

Grow up? It's a MACbook now yo. I like Macbook. It's... mac. I like having Mac's... not Powers(?).

My OS X is better than a religous iCon(man)- I ask and shortly after receive.

B
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after a brief stint of hating the macbook pro name, i have come to realize that it is relatively unimportant. by talking about more adament protestors' signatures that mention they will boycott the macbook name, we flexible mac users empower their strike. we call attention to their struggle and it will just go on longer. why don't we just ignore it?
 
One word .... testing

Anyone who works in software Q.A. has a *major* need for emulation products like vmware or VirtualPC. It's simply impractical to reformat and reinstall every time you need to test a software application in a different localization of Windows, for example. (EG. How will our app really run on the Chinese version of Win XP? How about the Russian edition?)

There's also a need if you work as a computer consultant, like myself, and run into all sorts of unexpected situations needing resolution. For example, I had one client with an old Novell server running Groupwise as their in-house messaging system. The workstations all ran Windows and nobody had any Novell software loaded other than the essentials for mapping to shared drives.

The easiest way to take care of their occasional requests to add/change/delete a user account or mailbox was to install the Novell management software on my laptop. I had a PowerBook with VPC 6 on it that ran just fine with the Novell Client for Windows and Novell's "ConsoleOne" software installed on it. Otherwise, this simply wouldn't have been possible without owning a Windows laptop.

I also have some car analyzer software and a special (OBDII) serial cable that is only available for Windows, but I got it working in VPC using a KeySpan serial to USB adapter. Again, saved me a need for an otherwise unwanted Windows laptop.


Randall said:
Why emulate when you can run the real deal?! I can see the point to emulating for web developers and other people that need to run just that one application that is only for Windows. Other then that, if you need hardware support (gaming) then there is no substitute to dual booting. :cool:
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kingtj said:
Anyone who works in software Q.A. has a *major* need for emulation products like vmware or VirtualPC. It's simply impractical to reformat and reinstall every time you need to test a software application in a different localization of Windows, for example. (EG. How will our app really run on the Chinese version of Win XP? How about the Russian edition?)

There's also a need if you work as a computer consultant, like myself, and run into all sorts of unexpected situations needing resolution. For example, I had one client with an old Novell server running Groupwise as their in-house messaging system. The workstations all ran Windows and nobody had any Novell software loaded other than the essentials for mapping to shared drives.

The easiest way to take care of their occasional requests to add/change/delete a user account or mailbox was to install the Novell management software on my laptop. I had a PowerBook with VPC 6 on it that ran just fine with the Novell Client for Windows and Novell's "ConsoleOne" software installed on it. Otherwise, this simply wouldn't have been possible without owning a Windows laptop.

I also have some car analyzer software and a special (OBDII) serial cable that is only available for Windows, but I got it working in VPC using a KeySpan serial to USB adapter. Again, saved me a need for an otherwise unwanted Windows laptop.
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That's all well and good, but hardcore gamers want the ability to run Windows on bare metal. No emulation (dual booting) is the only way. Don't worry about it hurting OS X, because If I had a choice I would always use OS X. Just like I would always use Linux. The bottom line is that we live in a Windows world and there are many great gaming titles only on DirectX etc. Must...dual...boot...
 
brepublican said:
I just dont understand, but apparently this is a hot topic? Why would anyone want to run Windows on a Mac? :confused:

Am I the only one who is lost here or is this whole undertaking inconsequential?
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Is this a joke? I mean really, this HAS been answered at least 100 different times.
 
a new form of horror visuals

Yeah... one of my most frightening and eerie computer moments was when I booted Windoze on my Mac via VirtualPC. It just seemed such a dirty corruption of my Mac's purity.

ok, ok... seriously... I think that booting Windows (natively-ish) on a Mac will have some advantages IF it works well. I could use it for the currently PC-only apps and plugins as I need them. This could probably bring hordes of switchers over too.

BUT... I want to know what the ramifications are for viruses and all of the Windoze security issues. Is Windoze on an Intel Mac going to be as horrific and unstable as it is on a PC box?

I'm not going to be one of the early adopters on this one...
 
I guess by some of the responses from the more Macentric people is that why should we drop down to windows level when we should be dragging them up to Mac OS X? I can see that there are practical reasons for allowing this and although I am a Mac snob I grudgingly accept this. I'd suggest we just chillout a bit...
 
brepublican said:
I just dont understand, but apparently this is a hot topic? Why would anyone want to run Windows on a Mac? :confused:

Am I the only one who is lost here or is this whole undertaking inconsequential?
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I think the biggest point was to run software that's for Windows only. For me this is the case (games)......
 
EricNau said:
Some people (sadly) are forced to carry around 2 laptops, their Mac (because they like it), and then a Windows for work.
This could save those people a lot of hassle and money.
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Yeah, it is a sad day for all when a single person is forced to carry around TWO laptops against their will. :rolleyes:

In the end though, dual booting will have advantages for people that rely on some Windows apps to get jobs done. I may/may not run some flavor of it on my new Mac, but I can safetly say it won't be getting a boot unless its utterly required for me to use it to complete a task.

It's only a matter of time before some 12 year old from some obscure European nation (who's parents bought an iMac for his birthday) finds some way to boot an EFI capable version of Windows.

Only a matter of time...
 
2 all those who really need some WinOS prgs:)

I will buy an outside HD only for WIN applications, period. I know plenty of people, who have 1 or more outside HDs. Maybe there is a way in a few wekks/months to startup your Mac, then choose which way you want to go, Apple OS or Win OS. That way you have no WinCrap on your Mac! I am not a knowledgable in the techspecs, but maybe this is the best bet to keep your Mac clean.
Ciao
DeVizardof OZ:D
 
yup o

toneloco2881 said:
Yeah, I think you need to get over your blind prejudice. Step off that facade of a pedestal your on, and realize that we live in a world populated by windows users. Any incentive we give them to try out the Mac platform, is a win for Apple. Most people that try OS X grow to say they can't ever imagine going back to windows. Some Mac users seem like such elitist that I think they actually hurt the platform.
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For sure. Show me one mac user who lives in an MS free world. MS is a pain in the butt, but a nessisary evil from time to time.
 
brepublican said:
I just dont understand, but apparently this is a hot topic? Why would anyone want to run Windows on a Mac? :confused:

Am I the only one who is lost here or is this whole undertaking inconsequential?
Click to expand...

No, I personally like the hardware for asthetic reasons. The OS is not something that really matters to me. I've tried both and, while Tiger looks much nicer, Windows is still too mainstream to discount at this point. Don't get me wrong, I like all the widgets and the pretty interface but I can't get things done efficiently without Windows at this point in time. Who know? Maybe it will be different as Apple gets its footing in the OS market with the new intel processors. But for now, I'd at least like to use the hardware again. The 40lb Dell brick in my lap is cutting off my circulation, not to mention frying my khakis. At least I can be one step closer to a great experience without losing all functionality or, at best stifling productivity. A dual boot would be a nice compromise.

Now when is Apple going to introduce the smaller form factor Macbook? I'd buy one yesterday.
 
ldburroughs said:
No, I personally like the hardware for asthetic reasons. The OS is not something that really matters to me. I've tried both and, while Tiger looks much nicer, Windows is still too mainstream to discount at this point. Don't get me wrong, I like all the widgets and the pretty interface but I can't get things done efficiently without Windows at this point in time. Who know? Maybe it will be different as Apple gets its footing in the OS market with the new intel processors. But for now, I'd at least like to use the hardware again. The 40lb Dell brick in my lap is cutting off my circulation, not to mention frying my khakis. At least I can be one step closer to a great experience without losing all functionality or, at best stifling productivity. A dual boot would be a nice compromise.
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AGREED! It would be awesome if we were able to use all those windows apps on the mac. As an architect i use Rhino, Autocad and Solidworks all the time on my ugly grey P4 PC. Wouldn't it be great to have those apps running on a great looking computer like the mac?
I suppose I would still do all the web surfing and research with OSX but for everything else i would use windows.:D
 
No way is that POS actually booting any of my Macs, but...

It would be cool to have a sandbox that windows (XP, Fister, whatever. It'll be the same old piss in a different shaped bottle) could soil itself in without doing any damage.

VPC is too damn slow, even on a DP 2.5. I currently have an old stinkpad in a box. It gets dragged out maybe twice a year, when I REALLY need it. With a decent virtualisation setup, I could finally ditch it!
 
chuchin said:
If apple sells macs preloaded with windows, do you think that people would be buying dell, hp, toshibas or acers??
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I think this will have to happen before you get the general public rushing out to buy macs.

Most computer users I know would have great difficulty installing windows onto a pc :)
 
Just another update. As the Windows experts around here know, Windows Vista requires ACPI support in order to boot. If you try to boot Windows Vista on an intel iMac you run in to a certain error over and over, C0000225. This error is basically "ACPI not found". So it looks like Vista might have booted, had it not required ACPI, or had Apple chosen to include ACPI. Unfortunately, there will need to be a workaround to support or spoof ACPI if we are to have any chance at booting up Windows natively on the Mactels. I suspect that once people get their MacBook Pros, they will join the struggle for eternal fame, because whoever gets this working first will surely be remembered in the computing world.
 
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