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More Panther 7B21 Notes

Fax from Mac

Does anyone even know how to get faxing to work from a Mac? It doesn't seem to work with any of my machines. I've tried every fax program and get the same problem. The fax is created, phone dialed, recipient fax machine answers, and then they cannot negotiate a connection so it is dropped.

Very frustrating and the same is true in 10.3

Any ideas???

Anyway, after a few days, Mail is definitely improved and some modifications are quite apparent in Expose. Apple seems to be working on the visual snap to make the OS move faster than it really does. I think M$ does this also. The built in Zipping is nice, but primative and I'd rather they improved burning. The problem is that much more burning could put Roxio out of business and Apple might not want to go down the path taken by M$ and eliminate all competition.

The other thing we REALLY need is a new version of AppleWorks. I dont use it a lot, but I might if it did what I wanted and worked with Endnote.
 
Odd Little Bug

I've only been using 7B21 for about a day. So far, I'm impressed. It does seem considerably faster, and I was able to install it over the previous Panther DR without a problem.

I've run in to one odd, and somewhat amusing bug. I can't minimize finder windows to the dock using the yellow minimize button. When I click on the minimize button, the finder window "genie effects" down to the dock, then pops right back out again and "sticks" to my pointer. In other words, when the finder window pops back up, it follows the movement of my mouse unless I click again to release it. Strangely, I can minimize finder windows by double clicking on their title bars just fine. And, windows in all other apps minimize normally with the yellow minimize buttons. The finder windows just don't want to stay in the dock when using the minimize button. They seem to love being close to my cursor. I guess I should find this annoying, but it just strikes me funny. Small things... small minds.

Has anyone else run in to this bug? Could it only be on my machine? I wonder...

This didn't happen in the first Panther DR by the way.

Cheers,
The Macbear
 
Re: Odd Little Bug

Originally posted by Macbear
I've only been using 7B21 for about a day. So far, I'm impressed. It does seem considerably faster, and I was able to install it over the previous Panther DR without a problem.

I've run in to one odd, and somewhat amusing bug. I can't minimize finder windows to the dock using the yellow minimize button. When I click on the minimize button, the finder window "genie effects" down to the dock, then pops right back out again and "sticks" to my pointer. In other words, when the finder window pops back up, it follows the movement of my mouse unless I click again to release it. Strangely, I can minimize finder windows by double clicking on their title bars just fine. And, windows in all other apps minimize normally with the yellow minimize buttons. The finder windows just don't want to stay in the dock when using the minimize button. They seem to love being close to my cursor. I guess I should find this annoying, but it just strikes me funny. Small things... small minds.

Has anyone else run in to this bug? Could it only be on my machine? I wonder...

This didn't happen in the first Panther DR by the way.

Cheers,
The Macbear
Click to expand...

That happens to me on occassion, and I'm still running on the first Panther build (with the test update from SUPP). It doesn't happen all the time, and there doesn't seem to be a method to that madness.
 
Originally posted by AidenShaw
If so, please explain how? Is it true 64-bit, so that the standard malloc call returns a 64-bit pointer? Do all system calls (I/O, graphics, frameworks) accept 64-bit pointers?

Or is there a mutant 64-bit malloc, e.g. malloc64, that returns a 64-bit pointer while the standard call returns a 32-bit pointer.

If there are two different sizes of pointers, do you get two different classes of memory? Do you have to copy data between 32-bit buffers and 64-bit buffers in order to do I/O with it?

All we know for sure is that Panther's O/S is able to use more that 4 GiB of physical memory, and to divide that up among 32-bit processes. Just like Windows and Linux do on x86 systems with up to 64 GiB of RAM today. Just like 32-bit VMS did on Alpha systems, just like 16-bit PDP-11 operating systems did 30 years ago.

If you have proof of application-level access to extended virtual addressing, please post it.




My 32-bit Windows and Linux systems do native 64-bit floating point, with full 64-bit datapaths.

The only difference with the PPC970 is that 64-bit integers become native - on x86 you need to use the SSE2 for 64-bit integers or (more commonly) synthesize using multiple 32-bit integer operations.

For the small number of applications which have significant 64-bit integer code, this is a win for the PPC970. How much of a advantage is open for speculation - since the superscalar O-O-O-E chips like the x86 can run multiple integer operations in parallel. Only benchmarks of 64-bit integer-heavy apps will be able to answer this question.

(BTW, are you sure that it is possible to use 64-bit integers while in 32-bit mode on the PPC970? I was trying to read the PPC documentation to determine this, and some references imply that the "32-bit mode" sets the effective integer register width, which would mean that a 32-bit program could not do native 64-bit integers.)

Anyway, thanks for the list of non-stylistic enhancements.
Click to expand...
Apple has already stated, in public, that Panther is *not* a 64-bit OS, so why don't you all just chill. As someone else pointed out, the G5 and OS X have just *started* what will be a gradual and generally seamless transition to 64-bit computing, that also supports 32-bit apps, ala Sun Micro and Solaris. Ya got it now?

-----

On a different topic, the 7B21 downloads have been fixed on the ADC site. However, I couldn't get them to start with Safari, and I can't seem to determine the password token to do direct ftp. I've had to resort to IE. Japan and Asia Pacific are not showing up as available download sites, at least here in the US, as the used to.
 
Re: Address book crashing

Originally posted by vrapan
Same here it crashes every time I open it I have repaired permissions but still no good. Anyone suggestions?
Click to expand...

I get that too. From the error message, it seems to be related to Bluetooth being checked upon startup of AddressBook.

Even disabling Bluetooth altogether via the PrefPane didn't help.

Do you guys have Bluetooth adapters or built-in bluetooth with your machines?
 
Re: Bluetooth issues in Panther beta

Originally posted by jaedreth
Have you guys gone to Utilities to Directory Access, and manually shut off Bluetooth?
Click to expand...

Hmm. Actually I don't see anything related to Bluetooth in Directory Access. I shut it off via the Bluetooth Preference Pane but that didn't do anything.
 
Bluetooth

I'm going from memory here, don't have my iBook with me.

Also, I'm running off of 10.1 and 10.2 knowledge, I'm not a paying developer.

In Directory Access there is a place where you can turn off services you don't need, such as Bluetooth, Rendevous, and even SMB. A services tab? I don't remember. I'll post late tonight when I get home if you can't find it. Or it may not be in your build, it is beta...

Jaedreth
 
Re: Bluetooth

Originally posted by jaedreth
In Directory Access there is a place where you can turn off services you don't need, such as Bluetooth, Rendevous, and even SMB. A services tab? I don't remember.
Click to expand...

There's no Bluetooth service in Directory Access in either 10.2 or the 10.3 betas for me. Both versions almost identical, they seem to have dropped NIS and LDAPv2 from 10.3 though.

The rest includes Apple Talk, BSD Configuration Files, LDAPv3, NetInfo, Rendevous, SLP and SMB. And there's indeed a "Services" tab :)
 
Hi Omnivector,

Originally posted by omnivector
everything seems to work fine for me except the address book.. it crashes every time i try and open it. any one getting the same or know how to fix it? i even tried logging in as another user and launching addressbook, so it shouldn't be my user prefs :(.
Click to expand...

I'm having the exact same experience. I just installed 7B21 today. I used the intallation option where it copies your current system over to a "Previous Systems" folder, but preserves user settings.

As you mentioned all seems well except for Address Book. I even tried moving all of the Address Book related files from my ~/Library folder elsewhere and running it -- same problem.

If you do come across a fix please do let us know!

--gordon
 
Re: Re: Address book crashing

Hey Scoop,

Originally posted by scoop
Do you guys have Bluetooth adapters or built-in bluetooth with your machines? [/B]
Click to expand...

I'm using one of the 17" PB's with built-in Bluetooth. Like the others, I have it disabled and I'm still getting the Address Book crash.

--g
 
Mommy, make Apple stop it first!

Originally posted by daveL
Apple has already stated, in public, that Panther is *not* a 64-bit OS, so why don't you all just chill.
Click to expand...

When Apple says that it's 32-bits, I'll chill....

Tell them to cut this crap out until the O/S supports the chip!

indextop06232003.jpg
indextitle06232003.gif
 
Re: Mommy, make Apple stop it first!

I dont understand all the fuss about 64 bit. It is only of interest to people who manipulate HUGE files requiring over 2GB of RAM.

It will NOT make most of your task faster so it is irrelevant that Panther is 32bit with 64 bit support. A worse problem might be for Panther to be 64 bit with 32 bit support. This would mean all your 32 bit apps could be considered as running emulation.

Forget 64 bit until your apps are 64 bit.
 
Re: Re: Mommy, make Apple stop it first!

Originally posted by pcharles
I dont understand all the fuss about 64 bit. It is only of interest to people who manipulate HUGE files requiring over 2GB of RAM.
Click to expand...

Actually, 2 GiB files aren't relevant.

I often work with video files that are a couple of hundred GiB in size. Works fine on a 32-bit computer, since only a few seconds of video are ever resident in memory at any instant.

It's streaming through the hundreds of gigs, but 32-bits is fine for the few dozens of megabytes that need to be worked with at any point in time.

You don't need 64-bits for large files....


Originally posted by pcharles
Forget 64 bit until your apps are 64 bit.
Click to expand...

Grasshopper, I see that you truly understand the universe! ;)
 
Re: Re: Re: Mommy, make Apple stop it first!

Originally posted by AidenShaw

You don't need 64-bits for large files....
Click to expand...

I quite agree. Although video editing software never really works with the huge files, just "images" of them. So, in most cases the files are not actually hundreds of GB. I work with with FCP to develop educational videos and the project files are rarely more than MB because it links out to the media. Even iMovie and iDVD do this. The project folder can be many GB, but the individual files are smaller. The only time I ever break this rule is when importing from Analog video cassettes to one single file using FCP. Even then it is written to hard drive.

I could see that a rewrite of cleaner or sorenson pro would be great in 64 bit because it could then read analyze and compress much larger chunks and that would probably speed up the process. How much, however, is a question.

The 64Bit addressing could allow companies such as Adobe and Apple to rewrite this kind of software so that it reads 2, 4, or 6 GB of data into memory and allows you to manipulate that if it could predict what you wanted to do next.

I think the main advantage will come with HUGE databases because larger chunks of them will now reside in memory and be searched a lot easier.

It seems that for now, however, the 64bit addressing is less important than some of Panthers more entertaining features such as:

1. Much improved open/save dialogs that offer several of the default folder options a sidebar, click-to-rename, resizable panes

2. Updated Mail which displays perfectly rendered HTML. This is becoming a superb email application.

3. Preview has many new features including the ability to select and copy chunks of text and images as well as perform a cropping.

4. I much improved and streamlined disk utility-disk copy application

5. Finder level zipping under a pop-up menu.

6. Desktop Printer Icons returning with the new print setup

7. Integrated remote desktop server

8. iChatAV

9. Dual 2GHz with potential for Dual 3GHz

All of which, I believe, are immediately more beneficial to most people than the ability to install 8GB of RAM
 
Re: Re: Mommy, make Apple stop it first!

Originally posted by pcharles
I dont understand all the fuss about 64 bit. It is only of interest to people who manipulate HUGE files requiring over 2GB of RAM.

It will NOT make most of your task faster so it is irrelevant that Panther is 32bit with 64 bit support. A worse problem might be for Panther to be 64 bit with 32 bit support. This would mean all your 32 bit apps could be considered as running emulation.

Forget 64 bit until your apps are 64 bit.
Click to expand...
There isn't any "emulation" on PPC, just like there isn't any "emulation" on Sun UltraSPARC. They both run 32-bit and 64-bit with equal well.

AidenShaw:

It's called marketing. Deal with it. Sun Micro did the same thing with UltraSPARC: First they built the hardware, then they gradually transitioned to a true 64-bit OS, with the ability to continue to run 32-bit apps. They advertised the UltraSPARC hardware as having 64-bit processors before the OS support was there. Maybe you should expend some of your apparent zeal for monitoring high tech marketing on a Sun forum? I'm personally tired of hearing you rant.
 
Things I've noticed...

The default shell has been changed from "/bin/tcsh" to "/bin/bash" -- I've have actually used tcsh as my normal shell ever since my first shell account back on unixs.cis.pitt.edu.

When I try and change my shell from /bin/bash to /bin/tcsh it doesn't exactly work. I don't recall this issue with WWDC 10.3, anyone else notice this?

Another thing.. when I use scp to copy files from my iBook to my linux box I get a strange kerberos login popup in OSX. I have to cancel that popup 2x and then I get a "password:" prompt back in terminal.
 
Re: Things I've noticed...

Originally posted by Delta-9
The default shell has been changed from "/bin/tcsh" to "/bin/bash" -- I've have actually used tcsh as my normal shell ever since my first shell account back on unixs.cis.pitt.edu.

When I try and change my shell from /bin/bash to /bin/tcsh it doesn't exactly work. I don't recall this issue with WWDC 10.3, anyone else notice this?

Another thing.. when I use scp to copy files from my iBook to my linux box I get a strange kerberos login popup in OSX. I have to cancel that popup 2x and then I get a "password:" prompt back in terminal.
Click to expand...
You didn't say how you were chaning the shell; you don't do it in /etc/passwd. You have to use the netinfo utility to change it in your user entry. This is also where you can enable the root login. Maybe you already know this? I use Bash, so I haven't had a reason to chnage it in 10.3, but that's how I changed it in 10.2.

Looks like the default setting for scp is to use Kerberos authentication, with a fall-back to simple passwords. There must be a config file somewhere.
 
TSCH -> BASH

Yay. I just changed my stuff from tcsh to bash, and I'm still trying to correct all my paths and scripts so they will work again.

So after this momentous work I have ahead of me, once I get it all working, if OS X 10.3 uses Bash, then I won't have to change it again or back up. Yay.

Jaedreth
 
Re: Re: Things I've noticed...

Originally posted by daveL
You didn't say how you were chaning the shell; you don't do it in /etc/passwd. You have to use the netinfo utility to change it in your user entry. This is also where you can enable the root login. Maybe you already know this? I use Bash, so I haven't had a reason to chnage it in 10.3, but that's how I changed it in 10.2.

Looks like the default setting for scp is to use Kerberos authentication, with a fall-back to simple passwords. There must be a config file somewhere.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information. I was trying to change it in: Terminal > Preferences. The same place my friend used in 10.2 to change his from the default (tcsh) to bash. I tried changing it there and it did not "take."

As far as the scp/kerberos thing goes, I had no idea where/how to change/configure that.
 
Re: Re: Things I've noticed...

Originally posted by daveL
You didn't say how you were chaning the shell; you don't do it in /etc/passwd.
Click to expand...

Actually I did try changing it via "chsh" which, essentually changes it in /etc/passwd, but I figured there had to be another way to do it, which is why I mentioned that I tried the Terminal > Preferences and didn't mention "chsh"

-d9
 
Thanks everyone for the interesting updates. (I am not a developer, so I will have to wait until I can buy it.)

Any comments on a new iCal? Everything sounds so exciting about Panther, but no news on what I consider the very worst of the iApps.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. iCal gives me headaches everyday, but I suffer through it since I don't want my data locked up by M$ in some proprietary file format with no export options. (You can tell I am still bitter about the experience of switching from the PC and getting my--MY--information out of Outlook.)

Thanks.
 
Changing Shells

The best place to change it is in Utilities in Netinfo Manager.

Just edit said user(s) and change the shell from bash to tcsh.

That's it. Of course, my work uses bash, so I am going bash all the way.

Jaedreth
 
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