More Shareholder Notes: SDK Hints, "Lots of" iPhone Apps, No Flash

[iPost]

If Flash player does come out for the iPhone, it woud not be Flash 9, it would be Flash Lite(3), which is specifically designed for hardware limited devices, so it would be snappy -- well, if the dev is experienced.

That doesn't make sense. Flash Lite is used for making full-screen mobile applications using a subset of Flash functionality. You don't embed Flash Lite in web pages. The iPhone's Safari browser is used to experience the real web. So, in order for sites using Flash to work in a browser, it needs to be the real thing, not Flash Lite.

 

[iBeast]

For those whining about no Flash this blog sums up my thoughts

 

[Tosser]

For those whining about no Flash this blog sums up my thoughts

Sorry, but if you cannot be bothered to post your opinion here instead of just a link so you can drive traffic to your site, I, for one, am really not interested in your opinion on flash.

 

[icoffee]

Lies, lies, lies

As I previously posted, my old Windows Mobile phone plays Flash just fine. Now there's a new browser in beta for Windows Mobile devices that integrates Flash. All that is required is a Windows Mobile 5 or 6 PDA. BTW, mine runs Windows Mobile 5 and has a 300 mhz processor, much slower than the the iPhones'. Jobs is just full of it. Flash lite, Flash for Desktops...who cares. As long as I can play my vids, all I really need to know is that "It just works (when I click)". Here's a link to the Skyfire browser beta. http://www.skyfire.com/ I love my iPhone but its apparent closed ecosystem doesn't deliver THE WHOLE INTERNET in my pocket, rather, my pocket is feeling a bit lite these days. Need I say again that my PDA is 4 YEARS OLD?

Skyfire, the full pc web on your phone. Every web app, every web site, every video. Need I say more? Here' a demo video, but I think you need Flash to watch it. http://www.skyfire.com/product/index/demo08 They even demo the iPhone's Safari against this browser! Skyfire supports Ajax, Javascript, and the Desktop version of Flash 8 & 9!

 

[Tosser]

Swet, icoffee! Skyfire is certainly the way it should be.

Unfortunately, I can already see the apologists going "He cheated! It's not possible to click precisely on those links without a stylus!!" "Styluses are old fashioned, it's much better to use our fat fingers on huge buttons. Steve told us so" – and all the rest of the squirming in an effort to claim the iPhone is the end all of useablity.

 

[JackAxe]

That doesn't make sense. Flash Lite is used for making full-screen mobile applications using a subset of Flash functionality. You don't embed Flash Lite in web pages. The iPhone's Safari browser is used to experience the real web. So, in order for sites using Flash to work in a browser, it needs to be the real thing, not Flash Lite.

Your answer really doesn't pertain to what I stated. Great job! Here's a happy face ---- >

I hate to burst your bubble, but you're 'wrong' about Flash Lite not running in a browser.

Here's Opera with Flash Lite 3. You should probably look into FL3, one of its new features is improved web browsing support.

I have Flash Lite 2.1 standalone player on my Nokia FYI. I've been developing with it since 2.0. There's not a huge difference between developing for it and FP7. I like your techno spew, but you can keep it, since it's flawed.

You should know that Adobe has not released FP8 or FP9 SDK and has no plans to do so.

You should also know that Adobe discontinued the Flash Player 7 SDK October 1st 2007. They specifilaly state that Flash Lite 3 is the migration path.

So if you think about it, if the iPhone/Touch does get Flash, it will not be FP8 or FP9, it will most likely be Flash Lite 3.

<]=)

 

[JackAxe]

I agree... with both you and Steve. Flash is terribly engineered. It requires a good desktop processor which it will make a lot of use of. I always know when I hit a web site with Flash because my fan goes on.

I'm VERY VERY happy that I won't have to put up with Flash draining my battery on my iPhone. Thank you Steve! I'm also not looking forward to installing any AIR apps either.

I realize that a lot of creative types are into it, but I really wish they'd find something different to express themselves with.

Terribly engineered. Really?!! That's a load of bull. Well, if you can do a better job, than get a job at Adobe. I'm sure they don't need your help though, they're doing just fine from what I've witnessed.

A properly authored Flash site/content, does not hit the CPU anymore than any other web tech performing a similar task. With FP9 and properly coded content, it use less CPU than other solutions. Watching a Flash video takes just a much CPU as a QT as an example.

There's lots of crap out there, but I can say the same for any other web tech. Nothing ticks me off more than a Flash site that is using almost 100% of my CPU for no obvious reason. But I've also encoutered Java and AJAX sites that were equally as bloated.

And if you're refering to a top of the line proc when stating a good desktop proc, that's simply not true for properly authored Flash content. Are you still on a G3 or something?

Ge, expressing myself provides me with a really nice income here in southern CA. If you're that worried about draining your iPhone's battery, you probably shouldn't browse the web, watch videos, or talk on it.

<]=)

 

[Nym]

It was me who suggested www.papercritters.com but, I don't understand the "lack of a mute button" since it has one above the main interface, it says "Music On/Off", what could be more obvious?

Another great example of Flash done right, IMO! always.. is http://kuler.adobe.com/

For those who are Flash developers here, you can realize the amount of work put into making something like this work and be 100% dynamic.

My point is, Flash should be available for those who want it, there's a bunch of websites with video content that are not youtube (metacafe, dailymotion, etc) and if the iPhone can really show the "internet in your pocket" than I assume nothing less than what they tell me the device can do.
Whether you like it or not, Flash is a part of the internet and the option to "dismiss" it shouldn't be taken with "argh, I don't like it anyway so I don't care".

I wonder if they decided to remove CSS support

 

[Tosser]

It was me who suggested www.papercritters.com but, I don't understand the "lack of a mute button" since it has one above the main interface, it says "Music On/Off", what could be more obvious?

Where does it say "/Off"?

Edit: This time I could actually click it. Seems like a hit'n'miss-thing.

 

[Nym]

Where does it say "/Off"?

Edit: This time I could actually click it. Seems like a hit'n'miss-thing.

It doesn't need to say "Off". It's a toggle switch mate!

However, I guess it could be more obvious, but it's still up to the interface designer to notice that. Still, you can't deny that this concept would be almost impossible to create using any other web language, and even if someone managed to do it, it wouldn't have the little touches that make it feel more like an application than a webpage.

And I've actually printed one of these stupid toys and built one successfully

 

[Tosser]

It doesn't need to say "Off". It's a toggle switch mate!

However, I guess it could be more obvious, but it's still up to the interface designer to notice that. Still, you can't deny that this concept would be almost impossible to create using any other web language, and even if someone managed to do it, it wouldn't have the little touches that make it feel more like an application than a webpage.

And I've actually printed one of these stupid toys and built one successfully

haha, yup, the third time around I could get it to toggle. But not the first and second. It did absolutely zilch the first couple of attempts. Hence my thinking when I took that screen shot, that there were no off-button. Then I tried again, just after uploading, and golly, it worked.
Personally, I hate websites with flash. The info on them - if there is such a thing - cannot be printed (unless they have it set it for it. But the flash part is not always the same as the printable part, when it comes to info). Of course, I could go the source code route and whatnot, but that is a bitch. Unless I really have to, I never go to flash sites.
I still want to be able to, though.

Speaking of languages: I'm danish, and you cannot select some text on a flash site and google it. No, you have to type it. And for blind people that uses screen readers, it's a complete no-go.

(edit: PS. I'm not going blind, afaik).

 

[Nym]

haha, yup, the third time around I could get it to toggle. But not the first and second. It did absolutely zilch the first couple of attempts. Hence my thinking when I took that screen shot, that there were no off-button. Then I tried again, just after uploading, and golly, it worked.
Personally, I hate websites with flash. The info on them - if there is such a thing - cannot be printed (unless they have it set it for it. But the flash part is not always the same as the printable part, when it comes to info). Of course, I could go the source code route and whatnot, but that is a bitch. Unless I really have to, I never go to flash sites. I still want to be able to, though.

Speaking of languages: I'm danish, and you cannot select some text on a flash site and google it. No, you have to type it. And for blind people that uses screen readers, it's a complete no-go.

(edit: PS. I'm not going blind, afaik).

Yeah, I understand your "copy/paste" issue, but that is also up to the developer, if the text field inside Flash is set as Dynamic and Selectable you can copy and paste it.
Also, I'm working on a project which uses something that is called the SWFAddress, which allows you to write "www.exsite.com/exsection" on the browser address field, the Flash page detects it and automatically jumps to that section, which is a very needed accessibility feature that should have been implemented from the get go.

Like I said, the responsibility of making these implementations is on the Developer side and not on Flash itself. I struggle to find new ways to make Flash more "accessible" and "htmlish" everyday, I guess in the end, it's the programmer's quality that makes a good website or a lousy one, we just can't assume that Flash will do our work for us

Ps - We're completely off-topic

And BTW, I completely agree with you that there are a huge number of websites which should NEVER use Flash for a bunch of reasons which I don't need to list, just don't get me fired and ban Flash from the web! ahah.

 

[Tosser]

Is the exsite-thingy a message to the screen readers? I don't know jack about programming, I'm into a completely other line of career …

Also, I didn't even knew about that people could make text selectable in flash. I haven't seen that yet. To me it looks like people are making it non-selectable on purpose, then?

Anyhow, if the accessibility issues and the copy/pasting can be adressed (and people actually implement them), then I guess flash _can_ be all right.
But then again, that means that most flash-designs out there are amateurish are crap born out of laziness or lack of knowledge of useability and accessibility.

 

[Nym]

Is the exsite-thingy a message to the screen readers? I don't know jack about programming, I'm into a completely other line of career …

Also, I didn't even knew about that people could make text selectable in flash. I haven't seen that yet. To me it looks like people are making it non-selectable on purpose, then?

Anyhow, if the accessibility issues and the copy/pasting can be adressed (and people actually implement them), then I guess flash _can_ be all right.
But then again, that means that most flash-designs out there are amateurish are crap born out of laziness or lack of knowledge of useability and accessibility.

The "exsite" thing was an example of how the SWFAddress thing works. One of the main issues with Flash is that when you're inside a page and click "Back" on the browser button to revert to the page you were inside the Flash page it sends you to the last address you were instead of the Flash site section you were before, with this additional programming bit, if you were viewing a Flash webpage like "www.mywebpage.com/aboutme" and if you pressed "Back" on the browser it would just send you too "www.mywebpage.com" instead of the last website you were in

The thing about Text in Flash is that, if you set it to Dynamic and you want to use a non-system font (some font other than Arial, Verdana, Times, etc) you have to embed the font characters and glyphs, which makes the exported Flash file heavier in Kb's. That is why Flash designers usually only use Dynamic text fields when it's really necessary, and even when they do, they can always turn the "Selectable" option off . In some cases, it should be definitely turned on, especially text fields with phone numbers, street addresses and stuff like that.

What I'm saying is, the possibilities of Flash with ActionScript are almost unlimited because Flash can import CSS's,/call JavaScript functions/ use HTML formatted text and can even connect to ASP or PHP databases if you know how to do it. Problem is, most Flash developers don't

 

[Tosser]

The "exsite" thing was an example of how the SWFAddress thing works. One of the main issues with Flash is that when you're inside a page and click "Back" on the browser button to revert to the page you were inside the Flash page it sends you to the last address you were instead of the Flash site section you were before, with this additional programming bit, if you were viewing a Flash webpage like "www.mywebpage.com/aboutme" and if you pressed "Back" on the browser it would just send you too "www.mywebpage.com" instead of the last website you were in

Ah, like that. I see.

The thing about Text in Flash is that, if you set it to Dynamic and you want to use a non-system font (some font other than Arial, Verdana, Times, etc) you have to embed the font characters and glyphs, which makes the exported Flash file heavier in Kb's. That is why Flash designers usually only use Dynamic text fields when it's really necessary, and even when they do, they can always turn the "Selectable" option off . In some cases, it should be definitely turned on, especially text fields with phone numbers, street addresses and stuff like that.

To me it sounds like it's not even possible to make flash screen reader "compliant"?

What I'm saying is, the possibilities of Flash with ActionScript are almost unlimited because Flash can import CSS's,/call JavaScript functions/ use HTML formatted text and can even connect to ASP or PHP databases if you know how to do it. Problem is, most Flash developers don't

So, I'll toast to flash-programmers in general growing up! (or rather: Grow the hell up, and do it properly!), lol.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Nym]

Thanks for the explanation.

No problem mate!

I guess it's my duty to clear some things up regarding Flash so I can still have a job

Flash is like modern science, it can be used for good if done right but most of the times it's real-world application is just wrong

To sum up, honestly, the iPhone lacking Flash is nowhere to being my biggest gripe with the device.

Although the iPhone is (still) not for sale in my country, I'm beginning to feel very inclined to buy a 32Gb iPod Touch instead of it for one reason only: Battery Life! I don't want to spend all day not listening to music with fear of not making through the day without charging my phone. I'm kinda used to the freedom that my POS 3 year old 1st
Gen phone Nokia gives me, I only charge it once a week, really!

At least if I have an iPod Touch and it runs out of battery I can still receive calls I actually like separate devices for different uses. Maybe it's just me.

 

[coffey7]

Using an iphone with or without flash to browse the web is not my idea of a fun time. I rather just have the ilaptop for that. I could not imagine trying to read a newspaper on a tiny screen. Without flash I could not watch all of my tech shows and sports highlights. Oh well its just not for me.