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More Shareholder Notes: SDK Hints, "Lots of" iPhone Apps, No Flash
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May be something to do with how crap the Flash player is on the Mac? Flash banner ad's using 60-80% cpu is not uncommon.
Firefox + adblockplus.
there will be some flash on the pages these days. yes, they take lots of RAM/CPU to render them but small flash objects are ok. some sites have flash stuff that cant be displayed on the iphone. there are newer j/s available that can do stuff just as well as flash, but sometimes you need (for me), the vector based flash to do the work although i try to avoid it as much as possible due to compatiibility issues - and this was before the iphone came out.
You also do realize that Summer means, in Steve's own term, the very end of June at least, right?
I like the name iServe
I don't mean to get off topic, but could you tell me how you animated your avitar? I uploaded a gif for mine but it isn't animating.
Well, it's not necessarily about being against Flash. In 2K, everybody was using flash for this and that. Now, these days (thank God), Flash is (mostly) used for:
a) Advertisement banners
b) Video feed
c) Very glamorous web site (ala Louis Vuitton)
OK, a lot of forms are now flash-based but those could be easily done in HTML/XML without fancy buttons and flashy effects. Plus, I think it's bad to rely on a technology not everybody has (as opposed to a decent browser with basic JavaScript capabilities).
In this regard, I think it's good not to have Flash on iPhone/iPod Touch. I mean, it would be cool to be able to view Flash animation but for me, it's far from necessary.
Do you often use Flash on a Blackberry?
Wait, you think that the mac fans are against having flash?
Well i didn't read the rest of the thread so i don't really know but from what i've heard everybody seems to really want flash and it's only apple itself that doesn't want it.
Even if you are an iPod touch or iPhone user and you don't want flash then you could just turn it off in the settings, it will be that simple, or there'd better be that option.
As much as flash would be really nice to have, i think that i'd probaby just turn it off most of the time to keep it snappier.
I agree. Most sites seem to use Flash (including my own) and it's disappointing to not be able to see it on the iPhone or iPod Touch. I don't think this makes both these beautiful products failures as some have posted, but I do hope that Apple and Adobe will work towards a solution soon.
That's not the player, that's the crap-Flash content. There's still too many Flash developers out their that don't know anything beyond tweening, or using a bloated component to get something done. They can't imaging anything beyond the timeline and don't know the first thing about optimization. These same 'designers' don't manage their loops/listeners, which in-turn create SWFs that waste CPU cycles unnecessarily.
Flash 8 introduced bitmap caching, which when uses properly really cuts down the CPU's usage. Flash 9 with proper AS3 create content, has greatly furthered the performance of Flash Player. YouTube uses FP7 FYI.
I'm just as annoyed by these poorly developed Flash banners as the next guy -- especially the crap that comes out of these larger agencies, but I also know that when Flash is used right, it offers a solution that no other web tech can currently match.
<]=)
Does anyone even see flash ads anymore? AdBlock with FF pretty much stops all of the ads, including the flash ones. If getting rid of flash on the iphone is the only way to stop flash ads, then maybe it's the problem of the browser not blocking ads well and not a problem of having flash?
I'm pretty sure it's the Player. Whenever I view Flash content on Windows, it always seems faster. And yes, on a similarly powerful computer.
But I do admit I could definitely learn more about optimizing
lolYou also do realize that Summer means, in Steve's own term, the very end of June at least, right?
Well seeing summer only starts on the 21 June, that isn't too unreasonable
I'm pretty sure it's the Player. Whenever I view Flash content on Windows, it always seems faster. And yes, on a similarly powerful computer.
But I do admit I could definitely learn more about optimizing
It is the player but now how you think. Safari has two methods for hosting plug-ins the netscape method and a newer webkit way. The flash player uses the netscape way so they only need to write one plug-in for firefox and safari.
The trouble is the netscape plug-in api is not really smart and really inefficient. For example CPU is used to redraw content even when the image is not changing.
Well seeing summer only starts on the 21 June, that isn't too unreasonable
I think we will have the SDK in some form tomorrow. So that developers will have time to make Apps for release in the summer.
I think the missing part will be the ability for developers to sell their stuff on the store. Developers will probably be able to make apps and test them out in some-kind of emulation program like how all the asteroid development is going on now.
I do hope that some apple made apps will be available (games, exchange support?)
This is what i don't understand.
iPhone has a video/media chip in it (it is an iPod after all).
Increasingly Desktops and coming with Video hardware with decoding built in as well these days
Websites and media can use this chip just by deliverying in a number of standard video formats, including the golden child H.246.
Yet every wants a flash a software based decoder that runs on the main CPU ignores support hardware.
So is herpes.
I'd suggest most of the bells & whistles Flash brings to the table can be coded. And the end result would be a lot leaner, faster and more device-friendly.
Flash is way overrated, IMO.
Not to mention: Printable, if one so choose.
Absolutely. Unfortunately, being able to view it at times is a necessity.
Flash
One of the posters gave the example of papercritters.com as a fun flash site. I went to try it out. It didn't work as advertised. I stuck stuff on and drew and they didnt show up in preview. I couldnt find anywhere to shut off the annoying sound. As a time waster it was pretty damn boring.
But here is the point. Informational sites for the most part should NOT use flash. I think this is a usability issue. I want to get information quickly and easily. And when I need that information on my iPhone it's usually when I'm out on the street and have only Edge. For that, web apps like weather, stocks, and google maps are great. The new "locate" feature along with google maps search is probably the most useful addition to the iPhone yet (I live in NYC so don't need GPS but I do need to know where a bank or post office or fedex branch is near where I am at a given moment). Web sites modified to work snappily on an iPhone are my favorite - digg, bbc news, etc.
In general, I see flash's only value is in multimedia entertainment. I rarely go to websites for entertainment even on a full computer. But if I want entertainment on the iPhone I have video, podcasts and musics. Soon there will be sdk-based games which are far more useful than flash over edge or even wi-fi. As for those of you who use flash sites regularly, you are probably going to get a much better experience on a large screen computer anyway (see the critters site - how the f-- would I use that on an iPhone screen even if it has flash and could do flash snappily). In short iPhone is great even wthout flash, and I'm not making "excuses" for Apple. I use my iphone dozens of times a day and I'm glad I bought it the first day! (I got $200 back, btw since Amex paid me $100 - they deserve a plug here for being so consumer friendly). If SJ doesn't want flash cause he doesn't want to help out Adobe, personally I couldn't care less.
One of the posters gave the example of papercritters.com as a fun flash site. I went to try it out. It didn't work as advertised. I stuck stuff on and drew and they didnt show up in preview. I couldnt find anywhere to shut off the annoying sound. As a time waster it was pretty damn boring.
But here is the point. Informational sites for the most part should NOT use flash. I think this is a usability issue. I want to get information quickly and easily. And when I need that information on my iPhone it's usually when I'm out on the street and have only Edge. For that, web apps like weather, stocks, and google maps are great. The new "locate" feature along with google maps search is probably the most useful addition to the iPhone yet (I live in NYC so don't need GPS but I do need to know where a bank or post office or fedex branch is near where I am at a given moment). Web sites modified to work snappily on an iPhone are my favorite - digg, bbc news, etc.
In general, I see flash's only value is in multimedia entertainment. I rarely go to websites for entertainment even on a full computer. But if I want entertainment on the iPhone I have video, podcasts and musics. Soon there will be sdk-based games which are far more useful than flash over edge or even wi-fi. As for those of you who use flash sites regularly, you are probably going to get a much better experience on a large screen computer anyway (see the critters site - how the f-- would I use that on an iPhone screen even if it has flash and could do flash snappily). In short iPhone is great even wthout flash, and I'm not making "excuses" for Apple. I use my iphone dozens of times a day and I'm glad I bought it the first day! (I got $200 back, btw since Amex paid me $100 - they deserve a plug here for being so consumer friendly). If SJ doesn't want flash cause he doesn't want to help out Adobe, personally I couldn't care less.
ok i am an owner of an ipod touch and nintendo DS. look at all the game possibilities of games with them both having the touch screen!!! gimme games!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i really really really also want to customize my touch it would be so much better
I'm pretty sure it's the Player. Whenever I view Flash content on Windows, it always seems faster. And yes, on a similarly powerful computer.
But I do admit I could definitely learn more about optimizing
I've been developing in Flash since version 2 --the days of suck. I have both Macs and PC(s) -- my XP3200 died
-- here for testing. I don't have an Intel Mac -- but soon -- so I can't speak for that player's performance, besides a quick glance, but the PPC player runs great in relation to the system's performance, weather its on my 5 year old DP G4, or DP G5.I recall how poorly Flash was under OS 9 -- I switched to my old T-Bird for all dev at that time, but after Safari for OS X was released with a few mintor updates, the Macs from my perspective have performed on par with their PC counterparts. I can't speak for Vista, but OS X can certainly handle full browser Flash better than any XP PC I've tested.
Use Debabilizer for all optimization. OK, that program is old, I haven't even touched it for almost a decade.
<]=)
Boring, that shows your level of creativity.
I'm sure kids will find papercritters.com very enjoyable. And the preview not working is simply a bug they need to fix. And they should have built in a mute button. Regardless of those minor gripes, the site for what it is was designed quite well and Flash was the best choice for that kind of site period. Now step back and imagine this same site built in Java. It would be a bloated experience with inconsistent results across browsers and platforms. It would require way more system resources and that's of course after it was downloaded and complied just to be played. And any AJAX attempt would be a failed attempt with way more problems.The usability issue comes down to the person designing the site. A poorly designed site will suck no matter what web-tech it was built in. There are more pros towards using a properly designed Flash site than cons. Saying that informational sites should not use Flash, is just like saying Macs are not good for business. Flash 9 + AS3 can do way more than any previous Flash, it's substantially faster, and as of now it's one of the most powerful web/cross-platform solutions.
And speaking of maps, Yahoo is working on a Flash 9 version of its maps. The guy working on the AS3 API in a developer video that I watched, stated that there was 10x performance gain over the current map implementation -- if I'm recalling correctly. You have your plug for AMEX, mine is for Yahoo, because they're doing some great things with Flash.
If Flash player does come out for the iPhone, it woud not be Flash 9, it would be Flash Lite(3), which is specifically designed for hardware limited devices, so it would be snappy -- well, if the dev is experienced.
Just like other devices, where as FL has support for their unique features, this would hold true for FL on the iPhone/Touch, so once again, it's up to the dev to do things right. And only for reference, look at Flash Home to see what it's doing for other phones that aren't remotely as nice as the iPhone, which of course does not need it.
In the end, Flash on an iPhone or Touch would only be a plus. It's not there to replace the current apps, but it will certainly open up more content, which you as the user can choose to ignore.
<]=)
I agree... with both you and Steve. Flash is terribly engineered. It requires a good desktop processor which it will make a lot of use of. I always know when I hit a web site with Flash because my fan goes on.
I'm VERY VERY happy that I won't have to put up with Flash draining my battery on my iPhone. Thank you Steve! I'm also not looking forward to installing any AIR apps either.
I realize that a lot of creative types are into it, but I really wish they'd find something different to express themselves with.