Mossberg Previews Lenovo ThinkPad X300, Pits Against MacBook Air

[marcel22]

Hi folks,
I do not usually respond to blogs or reviews, however this discussion is very interesting for myself. I am huge fan of Apple, however ThinkPad user for the last 10 years with Linux (main) and Win (Adobe) OSes.
I work as a consultant in IT all around the Europe and traveling a lot. Both of the products are partly focused on marketing to people like me, however I will personally not buy Air for my business or personal use simply because it does not scale well.
As X series ThinkPad user I really don't need CDrom and I have never used one (not even for Linux installation), I really don't need replaceable batteries since flights within EU are relatively short (max 2-3 hours) and caring spare ones would make the bag bigger. I use only ONE handbag while traveling and I use projectors a lot. I do visit rough areas and companies in dusty conditions and require more than one USB and PCMCIA port to attach additional equipment to my laptop so all in all it really does not matter how fast the computer is, if the battery is replaceable or not, however it really matters how compact the whole bundle with laptop is - that means if I really need to take additional pieces of equipment in the bag or just grab the laptop, charger and off to go.
I was very excited by the 12" PB, but they are not available any more - if they were I would be probably using Apple now - the great benefit is that they had very compact design - the thickness of the laptop is not as critical during traveling as the actual size and durability where X series from Lenovo surpasses Air. Another issue is connectivity - wifi is just not an option in many companies for many reasons - mostly security - when usually 3G comes to play.
Please note that I am a great fond of Apple and I respect their design choices, but I can not respect other people in this forum being so focused on branding and image even if they actually do not use laptop as productive tool - Air is a consumer product for people who usually surf the web and play music and whatever, but it fill not scale well when the laptop is actually a tool for you to earn money. In this case every single little issue annoys you like the lack of USB ports or glossy screens - you just dont want to be bothered by solving such issues when you really need to focus on business.
The same with actual product design - ThinkPads are not ugly - they are perfectly designed for people to focus on the job, presentations and money making. You do not even want that. Not in Europe at least - nobody is so much aware of Apple and nobody really cares - you dont want to be seen as a geek who spends more time on the internet choosing laptop than actually focusing on real job. Marketing is quite different for both products and if you compare the focus group you will understand that comparing Apples to ThinkPads is just not a way to go.
Cheers!
m.

 

[cube]

The weight is 3.8 lbs and height is 1.3 inches. You're getting towards MacBook class rather than MacBook Air class.

It's only 250g heavier than the MBA. That puts it in the same class. Thickness does not matter.

And it has a real graphics card.

 

[Quillz]

I think road warriors like windows more than mac os x. to them, apple is just childish - just see the getamac ads.
they usually want security as well as expandability (fingerprint, usb...)

I think to most people, Apple behaves childishly. They certainly make it clear just how much market share they have... next to none.

 

[shadowfax]

Add faster processor and cheaper price to the list of MBA.

In the end, Lenovo offers a much more expensive laptop in a slightly heavier and thicker package, with a shorter battery life, smaller hard disk, 50% slower processor that runs Vista (which will slow it down even further) in return for a few extra ports, a DVD drive and removable battery. Oh, and it offers only VGA instead of DVI. I don't think Lenovo is that attractive.

I would pick the MBA over the Lenovo even if it were slower.

Looks like the jury is still out on the processor in the X300. We will see. I hope it is spec'ed high, that would make me ecstatic. I can't wait to see Apple's current MBA get the snot beaten out of it in the ultraportable market. Why? Because I am dying to have a MBA in about a year, and if someone shows Apple up, they will have to step up--bringing us all better MBAs sooner. And I know they can and will want to win. Bring it!

It's only 250g heavier than the MBA. That puts it in the same class. Thickness does not matter.

And it has a real graphics card.

Who taught you mathematics?

MBA is 1,360 g. with a 37 Wh battery. The Asus U3Sg is 1,750 g... with a 3 cell battery that has a 26.6 Wh capacity. How much life are you going to get out of that with a 2 GHz Processor and a "real" video card? Answer: probably less than 2 hours. So the difference in weight is actually 390 g (read: closer to a pound than half a pound) for a laptop with no battery life, that's a lot thicker... than a MacBook, not to even mention the MBA.

You can say all you want, but that laptop is a far cry from the MBA. It could not be classified as an Ultraportable IMHO, because it probably weighs 4.5 pounds or more when you put a real battery in it. It's a Macbook competitor, and if it doesn't cost a ton, it could be a good one with that video card.

As long as you can get over how ugly it is.

 

[i.maverick]

thats another thing...

Sorry for the confusion folks. The CPU is from various resellers sites (Best Buy) which cite the CPU as the SL7100, which runs at 1.2 GHz. Should have made that clear in the post.

away from topic, but i find it really irritating that all of these companies when they release specs, for the processor they list some wierd number that i do not understand.. why can they simply not give the exact spec as to what the speed is and stuff. why do i have to stare at a meaningless number.
be clear people.

 

[netdog]

First of all, saying that Mossberg pitted the two against each other is quite misleading.

Secondly, these are in different price categories and are not equivalent machines.

Third, they are designed for different sorts of users. When I used to do network administration for a bank and then an interactive ad agency, the road warriors almost never needed lots of ports. They would have loved the Air.

 

[Tosser]

First of all, saying that Mossberg pitted the two against each other is quite misleading.

Why? Because one has more features than the other?

Secondly, these are in different price categories and are not equivalent machines.

True that the X300 has more features, and as such, they're not equivalent machines. But they weigh around the same, have the same size screen, and unlike your claim about the price: The SSD-version of the MBA is in fact a little dearer than the X300, but still they are obviously in the same price category, namely very close to the 3000 US$-mark.

Third, they are designed for different sorts of users. When I used to do network administration for a bank and then an interactive ad agency, the road warriors almost never needed lots of ports. They would have loved the Air.

They would properly have loved the X300 more: A little less expensive (face it, both are expensive in the SSD-version), more ports, a DVD-writer/reader, a matte screen and a wee bit lighter than the MBA. And if they chose to use the bigger battery, they'd have more time in which they could use it.

 

[icecone]

First of all, saying that Mossberg pitted the two against each other is quite misleading.

Secondly, these are in different price categories and are not equivalent machines.

Third, they are designed for different sorts of users. When I used to do network administration for a bank and then an interactive ad agency, the road warriors almost never needed lots of ports. They would have loved the Air.

Who doesn't want more ports, dvd writer and microphone in, WiMax, GPS... if they can, and even cheaper?
road warriors will want their PCs to be able to used as home as well (multi-purpose), right?

 

[jeremyrader]

Who doesn't want more ports, dvd writer and microphone in, WiMax, GPS... if they can, and even cheaper?
road warriors will want their PCs to be able to used as home as well (multi-purpose), right?

No, that's what a dedicated home/work setup is for. I use my MBP as a portable desktop, sacrificing a little weight, a little cost, and a little performance to fill multiple roles and it still exceeds my needs. If I had gone with a Mac Pro (or maybe an iMac) as my dedicated home unit, the MBA for college and business trips would make perfect sense - just sync files and stick in a drawer when not in use.

I've never sat in class thinking, "If only I had an extra USB port for this thing right now," or on a business trip thinking, "damn, I've just got to burn off a dozen DVD's before I head back home," because God knows the true meaning of portability is a 2 pound laptop in a bag with 20 pounds of accessories...

Work smarter, you'll be amazed at how little you need.

 

[dsnort]

I can't believe all this bickering over two laptops that aren't all that portable!!! I mean, ya gotta have a bag to tote it around in!!??!!

True portables don't need no stinking bag!!!!

 

[Tosser]

No, that's what a dedicated home/work setup is for. I use my MBP as a portable desktop, sacrificing a little weight, a little cost, and a little performance to fill multiple roles and it still exceeds my needs. If I had gone with a Mac Pro (or maybe an iMac) as my dedicated home unit, the MBA for college and business trips would make perfect sense - just sync files and stick in a drawer when not in use.

I've never sat in class thinking, "If only I had an extra USB port for this thing right now," or on a business trip thinking, "damn, I've just got to burn off a dozen DVD's before I head back home," because God knows the true meaning of portability is a 2 pound laptop in a bag with 20 pounds of accessories...

Work smarter, you'll be amazed at how little you need.

You missed the point entirely: The point is, given the same weight and the approximate size, and a cheaper price, the computer with more features wins.
If you're so concerned with weight, you could use the small battery on the X300 and leave the optical at home, and it would weigh less than the MBA by quite a bit – and still have more features than the MBA, not to mention less weight.

We're not comparing a MBP to the Airbook. No, we're comparing a lighter, fully featured notebook to the MBA. Quite the difference.

 

[GamecockMac]

LOL, with that argument, they could sell you a Mac with 667mHz CPU, 256MB ram and a 10 GB harddisk, and it would still be a "supreme machine".

I guess it's obvious who's the pot smoking idjit around here.

reductio ad absurdum.

Look it up before you start throwing the idjit tag around.

 

[Tosser]

reductio ad absurdum.

Look it up before you start throwing the idjit tag around.

You are aware, that one of the classic ways to test whether an argument holds water is to see how far it can carry you, right? If the same argument can be used to argue absurdities, then the argument doesn't carry much weight.
Perhaps you should look "argumentation" and "logic" up. You obviously have a strong need to.

Btw, thought I'd help you a little:

There is a fairly common misconception that reductio ad absurdum simply denotes "a silly argument" and is itself a formal fallacy. However, this is not correct; a properly constructed reductio constitutes a correct argument.

from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

It's no fun throwing words around when you don't understand them, is it?

 

[GamecockMac]

Just like every other thinkpads, it looks RELIABLE

Yeah, it looks RELIABLE in much the same manner as a late-model Volvo.

 

[GamecockMac]

You are aware, that one of the classic ways to test whether an argument holds water is to see how far it can carry you, right? If the same argument can be used to argue absurdities, then the argument doesn't carry much weight.
Perhaps you should look "argumentation" and "logic" up. You obviously have a strong need to.

Yeah, true logic is demonstrated by setting up some absurd strawman to try to make another person's OPINION look wrong. That guy wasn't arguing anything, he was trolling for a reaction and you walked right into it. Why would you even take the time to reply to a post like that? Unless as a pot smoking idiot, you felt somehow slighted. After all, that was the group he was addressing.

PROTIP: Opinions can't be wrong.

At least your username suits you, as most of what you write is pseudointellectual wanking.

However, this is not correct; a properly constructed reductio constitutes a correct argument.

Key words: properly constructed

It's no fun relying on Wikipedia to back you up when it doesn't even prove your point. Actually, most intelligent people wouldn't look to Wiki to back them up in the first place.

 

[Tosser]

Yeah, true logic is demonstrated by setting up some
absurd strawman to try to make another person's OPINION look wrong.

Haha, you're accusing me of making use of strawmen? I have news for you, there's yet another term you ought to look up: Strawman argument.

That guy wasn't arguing anything, he was trolling for a reaction and you walked right into it. Why would you even take the time to reply to a post like that? Unless as a pot smoking idiot, you felt somehow slighted. After all, that was the group he was addressing.

And that would make you what? You react to me reaction to his? And after this long?

PROTIP: Opinions can't be wrong.

Opinions can be based on false premises, hearsay, and can be absurd in themselves.

At least your username suits you, as most of what you write is pseudointellectual wanking.

Really? That's funny, because I wasn't the one throwing a latin phrase in there, telling others to look it up, while not even getting the gist of it myself. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but that gamecock was you, wasn't it?

 

[t0mat0]

Easy now

Don't you think Mossberg did this a) because there's buzz round the MacBook Air and b) because the updated MBP is not out yet.

He's comparing 2 laptops that are from slightly different areas. Air going mimimalist, X300 going Swiss Army knife so to speak. You can get either to come on top, if you change the criteria you're most weighting for a top result.

Off the top of my head, I would have thought it would have been a more fair comparison to compare the X300 with a MacBook?

Hence the phrases comparing apples to oranges, and each to their own.

 

[GamecockMac]

wank, wank, wank... while not even getting the gist of it myself...wank, wank

As usual, the only one who doesn't "get it" is here is you. Probably don't get much of anything which leads you to be so tense as to try to look smart by jumping on an obvious troll and flexing what little grey matter you possess.

Guess what? You did exactly what that guy wanted. And I doubt he ever even bothered to check back with the thread to see your absurd response. So hopefully you gave yourself a smug pat on the back when you hit the Reply button, because you didn't impress anyone but yourself.

Try tossing something else once in awhile, maybe it will mellow you out a bit.

 

[Tosser]

Key words: properly constructed

It's no fun relying on Wikipedia to back you up when it doesn't even prove your point.

I am not relying on Wikipedia. However, it is much faster using that than using my books on logic and argumentation, translating them into english, and typing them out.
Before I quoted wikipedia, I told you how such a reduction can be used to test whether an argument holds water, but you're apparently not even aware of that. And yes, my reduction is properly made. You saying it's not is just a claim. Nothing else. Show me, instead of saying it's a "silly argument". You seem rather incapable of that.

Speaking of being ridiculous:

Actually, most intelligent people wouldn't look to Wiki to back them up in the first place.

Yet another unfounded claim pulled out from thing air. Where do you get that information from? It's simply just an idiotic opinion, where one of your premises is that I used wikipedia to back me up. I didn't I showed you were you could begin your search. There are other other places too, which, btw, all agree with that quote.
Further, you're really going far. You then infer that you cannot be intelligent to quote something from wikipedia, and hence I cannot be intelligent.

To think you're the bloke accusing me of using strawmen? What a joke.

 

[Tosser]

wank, wank, wank... while not even getting the gist of it myself...wank, wank

As usual, the only one who doesn't "get it" is here is you. Probably don't get much of anything which leads you to be so tense as to try to look smart by jumping on an obvious troll and flexing what little grey matter you possess.

First of all, how old are you since you think it's fine to put something you wrote in quote brackets by me? I guess though, that you need to, since you have no knowledge of how to argue a point. All you do is troll around, accusing people of things you don't even know what is.
And really, is some idiotic come-back about my user name the only thing you can come up with?

Guess what? You did exactly what that guy wanted.

So, let me get this right: You're trolling to a much worse degree, calling me all sorts of things, all the while trying to argue I shouldn't have fallen for trolls way back when? Are you kidding me?

And I doubt he ever even bothered to check back with the thread to see your absurd response.

What's more absurd is you reacting so strongly to my response. Especially given the period since then.

So hopefully you gave yourself a smug pat on the back when you hit the Reply button, because you didn't impress anyone but yourself.

Hmm, sorry to break this to, lad, but I don't post to impress. Just as I don't get impressed by reading stuff like that myself. But your focus on "impressing" tells me where your focus lies.

Try tossing something else once in awhile, maybe it will mellow you out a bit.

Haha, what a joke. You really are something. Isn't it fun to first accuse me of trying to impress, and bitch over me responding to a troll, and then in the next sentence you post that?

 

[GamecockMac]

wah, wah, wah. bleat, bleat.

LOL. So predictable.

You are just too easy. It's not even entertaining anymore.

I'll let you get back to your vast collection of books on logic and argumentation. They obviously come in quite handy when cruising MR looking to put trolls in their place. Tally-ho, brave hunter!

 

[Tosser]

Easy now

Don't you think Mossberg did this a) because there's buzz round the MacBook Air and b) because the updated MBP is not out yet.

He's comparing 2 laptops that are from slightly different areas. Air going mimimalist, X300 going Swiss Army knife so to speak. You can get either to come on top, if you change the criteria you're most weighting for a top result.

Off the top of my head, I would have thought it would have been a more fair comparison to compare the X300 with a MacBook?

Hence the phrases comparing apples to oranges, and each to their own.

I think you're right. Sort of. The thing is, the Airbook is a watered down MacBook, but here it kind of stops.

And since a huge feature is the lack of weight on that thing, the other obvious choice to compare it with is of course the X300: Both have somewhat the same footprint, same size screen, same size SSD and almost the same price. And neither have fw, haha!!

Ah, well, I think you're right about the rest, of course.

 

[Tosser]

LOL. So predictable.

You are just too easy. It's not even entertaining anymore.

I'll let you get back to your vast collection of books on logic and argumentation. They obviously come in quite handy when cruising MR looking to put trolls in their place. Tally-ho, brave hunter!

I never said I had a "vast collection". Using strawmen again, I see.
It's not books I need to look up in when cruising these forums, hence my link to wikipedia. You see, as opposed to you, I have actually read them, so there's no need for me to use them while reading here. And especially not your posts.

I see that you're very fond of trolling, though. It's especially funny to see how you react when you discover you're incapable of putting an argument together: Retype some nonsens and pretend the other said it, then you go on to accuse the person of all sorts of things, while making ridiculously juvenile jabs at the persons username.
Now, the question of the day to you is: Who's the troll?
Think about it.
Perhaps I'm the troll who likes a good argument, and that post you reacted so strongly to was the bait.
How do you catch a troll? You use the right bait …

 

[t0mat0]

I think you're right. Sort of. The thing is, the Airbook is a watered down MacBook, but here it kind of stops.

And since a huge feature is the lack of weight on that thing, the other obvious choice to compare it with is of course the X300: Both have somewhat the same footprint, same size screen, same size SSD and almost the same price. And neither have fw, haha!!

Ah, well, I think you're right about the rest, of course.

Why not compare with a MacBook - only 0.18 of an inch in it... (I take your point that it's lightness is one of it's key selling points, bar being slim and Apple product)
I htink Mossberg was doing a Scoble, and whipping up a teaser to get people to listen in to his review.
On a side note, I think macboys are still getting to grips with defending the Air - it's a niche market, (you don't want ultraportable, you want slim and unencumbured, and happy to lose the drive, ports etc).
- it's looking lonesome. Apple will bulk out the range, or do something with the lessons learned from shrinking their kit down to fit, but at the moment it has to defend itself with it's good looks and thinness...

(wouldn't everyone want the Air's tech to be passed on the the MacBook and the MBP? - Think mt pads for a thinner MBP, more kit in the MB...)

 

[Tosser]

Why not compare with a MacBook - only 0.18 of an inch in it... (I take your point that it's lightness is one of it's key selling points, bar being slim and Apple product)
I htink Mossberg was doing a Scoble, and whipping up a teaser to get people to listen in to his review.
On a side note, I think macboys are still getting to grips with defending the Air - it's a niche market, (you don't want ultraportable, you want slim and unencumbured, and happy to lose the drive, ports etc).
- it's looking lonesome. Apple will bulk out the range, or do something with the lessons learned from shrinking their kit down to fit, but at the moment it has to defend itself with it's good looks and thinness...

Well, I don't mind comparing it to the MacBook. It certainly is a thinner alu-Macbook with ports taken away from it. And for someone where only an Apple will do – no matter what - it certainly is the only you can compare it to.
The point I was trying to make was that it's pretty apparent that for someone arguing that the Airbook is the ultimate when it comes to portable without compromising on a decent size screen and keyboard, while going light (we all want light, right?), the X300 is a dead-on comparison. I think the reason the "Macboys" cry foul is because it's indeed a much better computer – and it can get even lighter. The only thing they can come up with is "But it doesn't run OS X". As much as I love OS X, the OS won't do me any good, if I work slower because of a glossy screen, or cannot connect that thing to whatever might pop up unforeseen. The screen on the x300 is 13.3 inch, but it actually has the resolution of my MBP. That means that going light wouldn't make me loose an real estate.

Btw, I think you're dead on when you write "you don't want ultraportable, you want slim and unencumbured".

(wouldn't everyone want the Air's tech to be passed on the the MacBook and the MBP? - Think mt pads for a thinner MBP, more kit in the MB...)

But of course.