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Mossberg Previews Lenovo ThinkPad X300, Pits Against MacBook Air

ha, funny that you responded point-by-point, because I don't feel like you addressed the core of what I said at all. just to hit a few core points, That poll still stands. It doesn't say anything about laptop models or brands or anything. It's a simple question--DO YOU or DO YOU NOT have a spare battery? Most people don't carry one. 92% of people in the poll don't have one, or at least never use it.

Another point that you seem to think is solidified is that it is probably going to be a whole ton more trouble to replace the battery in an MBA. That is only the case if you are able to find a battery right at the moment. And if batteries are recalled, that's not going to be the case. There is, indeed, a good chance that it will be a bigger nuisance than any other Apple laptop. But how much more? That's a matter of speculation.

But, be that all as it may, I am done arguing this point with you--I do not see the point of discussing the propriety of buying a laptop with someone who seems to think that he can judge others' purchases foolish on such speculations as you're making.
 
shadowfax said:
ha, funny that you responded point-by-point, because I don't feel like you addressed the core of what I said at all. just to hit a few core points, That poll still stands. It doesn't say anything about laptop models or brands or anything. It's a simple question--DO YOU or DO YOU NOT have a spare battery? Most people don't carry one. 92% of people in the poll don't have one, or at least never use it.
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Sorry about that, I figured that since you couldn't understand even the basics in polling and surveys, it would help you at least come to terms with the flaws in your argument. Alas, it didn't help at all – you obviously need to be spoon fed:

1) The poll is about whether people own more than one battery.
2) The poll is about people have chosen to get yet another battery.
3) The poll is on a site where computer geeks come (myself included).

4) The poll is not about whether people will find it a problem down the line in general.
5) The poll is not about whether will be more or less inconvenied when the battery gets old.
6) The poll is not about whether it turn into a problem in the long run.
7) The poll is not about whether people is capable of swapping the battery themselves.
8) The poll is not about whether it will be more or less of an inconevience in case of a battery recall.
9) The poll cannot be extrapolated to populus at large.

You are insisting, that you somehow can deduct all those things from that poll. Perhaps you should look up how to make a survey?
The reason, is, that you try to convince people, that the poll somehow proves any of your points. It doesn't. Not even close.


Another point that you seem to think is solidified is that it is probably going to be a whole ton more trouble to replace the battery in an MBA.
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Sheesh! You still utterly ignore valid arguments. I'm beginning to think it's on purpose.
What is it you don't get? Having to send in your computer in order to change a problematic battery will always be much more trouble than receiving a new battery by mail. And if there's a _huge_ battery recall, it will take longer to get your computer back.
I cannot believe you seem to so entrenched in your defense, that you come out and say it will be about the same trouble. How about applying some common sense, instead of claiming it will be no more trouble at all? The only way it won't ever be more trouble if it will never have to be swapped. Which, with the many global battery recalls recently, is the quite the naive position.

That is only the case if you are able to find a battery right at the moment. And if batteries are recalled, that's not going to be the case. There is, indeed, a good chance that it will be a bigger nuisance than any other Apple laptop. But how much more? That's a matter of speculation.
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You're beginning to use circular argumentation.
I have already informed you, that the "repair battery" in an MBP/MB has a different order number than the retail battery.
I have informed you (which shouldn't even be necessary) that when a battery needs to be replaced, Apple will order a "repair battery".
I have shown you, that in case of a major battery recall, it will be harder to come by repair batteries, but that with a battery that is hot swappable, you have a much bigger chance of getting hold of one.
I have explained how an inbuilt battery, especially in case of a major battery recall, will force you to be without your computer for a while.
Further, now you even claim it will be a bigger issue that the battery is swappable without bringing an argument to support that position to the table. All that can support that claim is your previous (just as invalid argument) that it will be just as hard as to come by a swappable battery than the repair battery.


But, be that all as it may, I am done arguing this point with you--I do not see the point of discussing the propriety of buying a laptop with someone who seems to think that he can judge others' purchases foolish on such speculations as you're making.
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Ah, yes. Poor you, playing a victim I see. It's sad every time someone prefers to pretend to be wronged, and pulls out of a discussion while claiming "I'm right, it's just you who are judgemental" and other cheap rhetorical tricks.
 
QCassidy352 said:
The x300 lags behind in two significant ways (other than not running OS X, of course) - the thickness, and the processor speed.
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They're both very thin. Is the difference really that significant for people? I doubt it.

I think this is an example of a company (Apple) creating a market for itself by introducing a problem that doesn't exist. Sure, portability has always been a huge selling point for some, but for many, that always meant getting an 11" screen (or smaller) in the process, not a laptop thin laptop with a big footprint.

Apple made something that didn't target any market segment, and simply tried to create one but convincing people how much this was needed by a different market segment (not you, of course, but someone else). If enough people tell you the MBA is enough laptop for the road warrior, eventually people just start to believe that 1 USB port is enough for a "road warrior". Eventually, people start to believe that 2.5 to 3.5 hours of battery life is enough for a "road warrior". People believe that portable = "thin", rather than a laptop with a 10" or 11" screen, light weight, 3G internet access, WiMAX, a real 6 hour battery life, and an interchangeable battery. Then these people, who were convinced by Apple's dog and pony show, go onto message boards to convince others.

As far as I'm concerned the X300 is a better laptop. The processor is slower, but if that one issue was addressed, then IBM just obliterated the MacBook Air.

Then the only other issue is the ugly factor. It's ugly, but it's just a shell. Lenovo made a poor shell. That's it. That's their flaw. If Apple designed something like the X300 but in its anodized aluminium, there would be no question how great the MBA is.
 
Tosser said:
Sorry about that, I figured that since you couldn't understand even the basics in polling and surveys, it would help you at least come to terms with the flaws in your argument. Alas, it didn't help at all – you obviously need to be spoon fed:


Sheesh! You still utterly ignore valid arguments. I'm beginning to think it's on purpose.

I cannot believe you seem to so entrenched in your defense, that you come out and say it will be about the same trouble. How about applying some common sense, instead of claiming it will be no more trouble at all?

You're beginning to use circular argumentation.

Ah, yes. Poor you, playing a victim I see. It's sad every time someone prefers to pretend to be wronged, and pulls out of a discussion while claiming "I'm right, it's just you who are judgemental" and other cheap rhetorical tricks.
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WOW.... :eek:

What does "In Time-Out" mean and how long does it last...?
 
Central Issues

1. Same essential weight, but with DVD and lots of ports - Adv. Lenovo, shame on you apple.
2. Lots of ports vs. minimalist look. I'm fine with Apple.
3. Removable vs. Nonremovable battery - Adv. Lenovo. Not a deal killer, but shame on Apple.
4. Battery life - advantage Lenovo, but I'd like to see the performance of the different sized batteries Lenovo might offer.
5. Footprint vs. thickness - smaller footprint seems more important to me, advantage Lenovo
6. Operating system - clear advantage Apple
7. Price - comparable, but Apple has conventional HDD option so adv. Apple
8. Looks - clear advantage Apple.
9. Build quality - comparable (and both class leaders over other OEMS)
 
A few people in this topic have understood the fundamentals here - that the business world is utterly dominated by Microsoft and that Apple are a niche player outside the North American market. Given that, the Lenovo is a better choice for business whilst the Air is better for personal use for the US. Europeans will most likely use other laptops made by, say, Dell or HP.

However, the X300 doesn't really do much more than the X61 (except have an optical drive) which, in my opinion (and that of PC World magazine), is a superior macine to both it and the Air.
 
ZorPrime said:
WOW.... :eek:

What does "In Time-Out" mean and how long does it last...?
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He's sinbinned. It's in the FAQ/Rules. Cool off period. Tosser was rather living up to his name (argumentative sometimes, cheeky in other threads). I think you don't have to bash to death someone with bullet points. Macrumors forums have rules of etiquette, and I imagine either this thread or another caused a meeting with a moderator.
 
I've only owned laptops for the last twelve years.

Only on two or three occasions did I switch in a second battery. Only a few people have or need a second battery, for everybody else (90%+) this point is irrelevant.

I have never ripped a CD, installed software or played a DVD while not being at home. From that point of view, an external DVD drive (or a second computer) would not be a real issue. It's only a minus on the style side for me.

Maybe once a month, I might plug-in more than one external device (I don't use external keyboards or mice). Only issue would be concurrent usage of USB and Ethernet. However, I use Ethernet basically only at home and in the office. Placing a USB2Ethernet dongle and a USB hub in both locations would solve this issue completely.

There is only one issue in which the Lenovo has a real advantage for me: 4 GB RAM. But without a DVI port the Lenovo looks much worse on a big LCD.

The small harddrive and no Firewire are the only issues that keep me from getting a MBA, the Lenovo has no advantages here.
 
t0mat0 said:
He's sinbinned. It's in the FAQ/Rules. Cool off period. Tosser was rather living up to his name (argumentative sometimes, cheeky in other threads). I think you don't have to bash to death someone with bullet points. Macrumors forums have rules of etiquette, and I imagine either this thread or another caused a meeting with a moderator.
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Neither, actually. It was because of being "off topic" in a thread and discussing such off topics as how heavy and useless a screen made of glassfibre would be.
And all three of us discussing got a time-out for a few days. It had naught to do with being argumentative or cheeky or using bullet points.

Anyhow. I like how people still come up with workarounds, such as place adaptors at their work place, adaptors at home and so on, to get around the Airbook's shortcomings. It sure seems like people do need more than the one USB, yet they claim they don't, all the while tlaking about how easy it is to work around it.
 
I think the macbook air is to impact those who want something that is trendy and looks "cute" as i've heard many females say they like it. The x300 has a few more features and all and i'm guessing that is for the more computer person.
 
Abstract said:
They're both very thin. Is the difference really that significant for people? I doubt it.

I think this is an example of a company (Apple) creating a market for itself by introducing a problem that doesn't exist. Sure, portability has always been a huge selling point for some, but for many, that always meant getting an 11" screen (or smaller) in the process, not a laptop thin laptop with a big footprint.

Apple made something that didn't target any market segment, and simply tried to create one but convincing people how much this was needed by a different market segment (not you, of course, but someone else). If enough people tell you the MBA is enough laptop for the road warrior, eventually people just start to believe that 1 USB port is enough for a "road warrior". Eventually, people start to believe that 2.5 to 3.5 hours of battery life is enough for a "road warrior". People believe that portable = "thin", rather than a laptop with a 10" or 11" screen, light weight, 3G internet access, WiMAX, a real 6 hour battery life, and an interchangeable battery. Then these people, who were convinced by Apple's dog and pony show, go onto message boards to convince others.
Click to expand...

Why is it if one actually decides for him/herself that the MBA is for them, it's because they were 'convinced by Apple's dog and pony show'? The 2 units are different enough that each person's individual preferences are going to matter.

I agree that the X300 is probably going to be the better choice for most people, but the MBA is an amazing device. Maybe the thickness doesn't matter to you, but that's a slippery slope- why not go thicker than the X300 and get even more features in a different Mac or Windows notebook? There's a reason why there are so many different notebooks with different sizes, weights, and feature mixes.

I think the MBA is really great if you have a main desktop computer, but has too many compromises if it's your only computer. But to each his own. A sales rep might think differently. OTOH a mobile power user will obviously want something else. And so on...It's quite possible for someone to really choose the MBA for no other reason than that's the best notebook computer for them.
 
Competition from the X300 is great! MBA is a wonderful start for a 1st gen product and Apple will have to keep raising the bar with each successive gen - just like Apple's competitors.
 
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