Motorola 1.5GHz G4... G4 PowerBooks?

[a17inchFuture]

Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
Let's remember this article is mearly saying that Moto has some new G4 chips on the way. Anything to do with another G4 PowerBook is purely speculation (although my opinion is that Apple will use them, and this is not necessarily a bad thing).

I second all those people that say that the current G4 PowerBooks are very good machines - all of them.

Yes they are good machines, and the reason I originally started posting and chekcing these sites. I completely wanted one with every fiber of my being. I came everyday to see the newest info, and after getting all the news and rumors over the last 4 months, I have to say, I think teh next pb will be a G5. Or if not, its gonna be a short-lived revision for the next g4 PB's, as I think the G5 will come out/be announced before september.

You are correct, 'tis speculation only, but I can much more easily see these chips going happily into the hands of future ibook, imac, and emac owners, than i can see them in the unenthusiastic hands of the pb owners. I think those apple/"power" comp users who spend more money on a comp than any other buyer (as the "power" comps are 200 percent or more than most wintel,etc. comps.) expect the most up-to-date, highly sophisticated, and generally cutting edge. And to phsyically sit on technology out on teh open market is something I dont think apple will do. Yes they could be working out other things besides the processor, but my point remains valid nonetheless, they wouldnt release less than top technology as if it were the top tech. powerbooks are the top, and they will get the top every time they are updated, and the 970FX is the top.

So thats why I hope you are wrong!

But yes, they are beeeeeeeeautiful computers no matter which way you look at them, technically and aesthetically.

 

[ClimbingTheLog]

Originally posted by kristo
To be honest, what is everyone using their laptops for that requires a g5?

Portability

aka Battery life.

The PPC970FX with PowerTune should be capable of increasing battery life a good 30% over the G4 at a similar clock.

Also, Hypertransport. Not per se, but that's how Apple hooks up faster memory. Faster memory is especially important for folks doing compiles and such, which with stuff like fink, is alot of people.

Faster memory == getting work done faster == longer effective battery life.

 

[a17inchFuture]

Originally posted by a17inchFuture
Yes they are good machines, and the reason I originally started posting and chekcing these sites. I completely wanted one with every fiber of my being. I came everyday to see the newest info, and after getting all the news and rumors over the last 4 months, I have to say, I think teh next pb will be a G5. Or if not, its gonna be a short-lived revision for the next g4 PB's, as I think the G5 will come out/be announced before september.

You are correct, 'tis speculation only, but I can much more easily see these chips going happily into the hands of future ibook, imac, and emac owners, than i can see them in the unenthusiastic hands of the pb owners. I think those apple/"power" comp users who spend more money on a comp than any other buyer (as the "power" comps are 200 percent or more than most wintel,etc. comps.) expect the most up-to-date, highly sophisticated, and generally cutting edge. And to phsyically sit on technology out on teh open market is something I dont think apple will do. Yes they could be working out other things besides the processor, but my point remains valid nonetheless, they wouldnt release less than top technology as if it were the top tech. powerbooks are the top, and they will get the top every time they are updated, and the 970FX is the top.

So thats why I hope you are wrong!

But yes, they are beeeeeeeeautiful computers no matter which way you look at them, technically and aesthetically.

Of course, all of this I've said is dependent on the factoid given that these chips wont be used until 3-6 months from now. I think that may is too late for a g4 update, and that is the earliest date available. I dont see apple releasing a g4 at the end of summer and introducing the g5 three months later. All their customers would feel ripped off. And apple usually updates every 6-8 months, so if they were to "update" in may, it wouldnt ship til june or july probably, and that is why i couldnt see an update after may being a g4. And if it is, it will be shipping in may, and the next update will be g5's in oct., which I still think is too soon.

let me reitterate my main point : from the beginning of time, we have been waiting for the g5 chip to be dealt with in some way that would solve the heat and power consumption issues. That day has come and gone. The G5 powerbook is imminent. Anyone who disagrees is an non-apple owner, or has just purchased a g4 in the last year.

Just a guess/my opinion.

 

[maxvamp]

Fast Forward

I fast forwarded a bit on this thread, so maybe I missed something...

I thought I saw in the article that the new 'blessed' ( read: not over clocked ) chip only used 9 watts at 1.2 GHz.

This sounds ideal for the 12" iBook, and even clocked up a bit, the 14" iBook.

Who is to say that Apple will not be releasing the PowerBooks with the G5, and then turn around and give us a really nice G4 iBook.

Also, I want to take some exception to the G3 Bashing... I own a iBook G3 - 600, and for the work I need to do on the road, I have found even that machine adaquate. We are talking about MS-Office, Macromedia MX stuff, and some programming.

While I would not do any video work on it, I have found this little unit to be one of the best computers I have ever owned.

<stepping off soapbox>

Max.

 

[manu chao]

Re: Re: Apple didn't just start work on this Yesterday

Originally posted by ionas


centrino, (centrino "2" and centrino celeron) technology is crushing the market since mid/end last year.

ppl stop buying stupid P4-Mobile or stupid AMD cpus for notebooks (regarding notebooks amd cpus consume too much energy and produce too much heat).
...
that would be hell for apple - cause the pentium-m beats (defacto) the G4 at the moment. (pentium m are available from 1.4-1.7 ghz atm - soon there will be speedbumps).

these cpus are used in notebooks that dont even use their fan most of the time - they are SILENT besides the harddrive which are the same apple uses - harddrives (2.5) are almost silent as well.

and they consume LESS power. you can have normal x86 notebooks with 5-7 hours running time (just look at ibm, toshiba or acer notebooks)
...

The Centrino undoubtedly consumes much less power than a G4, especially when in idle. But with everybody claiming (doesn't mean it's true) that the system controller, the graphic card and the screen (everybody knows that dimming it helps a lot) also contribute considerably to the power consumption (maybe as you said, the harddrive is not important, but the iPod's harddrive is parked during each song to save energy), I'm asking myself whether part of that big energy consumption reduction of Centrino notebooks also comes from a much more efficient and maybe less powerful graphic card.

Just saying, please compare the battery time of Centrino-based notebooks using the same graphic card as a Powerbook/iBook to said Apple products.

 

[AidenShaw]

HT is not used for memory

Originally posted by ClimbingTheLog
Also, Hypertransport. Not per se, but that's how Apple hooks up faster memory.

Look at http://www.apple.com/powermac/architecture.html .

HT is used to connect the PCI slots (item 6) and embedded I/O (item 7) to the system controller (item 4).

The CPUs connect to the system controller, and the memory connects to the system controller. These are not HT connections.

 

[aswitcher]

Re: Re: Re: Pathetic

Originally posted by a17inchFuture
There is a reason for this. If you read the link someone posted to an article with new G5 news. An "Analyst" for someone (i think macminute) predicted that the next pb would be a g5 powerbook, and that he felt unless they planned to do other cutting edge stuff, it could come out anytime.

Which also goes well with my belief( and the belief of others who have posted) that these new G4 chips are going to be "shipping in 3-6 months" in quantities ( however, 10,000 samples isn't exactly a small handful), means that these chips are going to be used for the ibook next rev.. They just introduced the new G4 in the ibooks in Nov (?), and 3-6 months would be a perfect time table to release the next rev. And it would also be a perfect time to do the turnover from g4 to 5 for the powerbooks. Not that they will be updated at the time, but in the same vein (aka g5 comes, so ibooks get the best g4's).

Think about how well that could revive the g4 "i" line of product sales (e.g. ibooks and imacs), something people on these forums were complaining about a day or two ago.

I guess...but for me the bottom line is that it could be anything up to 6 months by this prediction until I switch to a Mac because I will be keeping it 3-4 years or even longer, and I don't want old technology when new is just on the horizon.

If the iMac 20" anniversary edition appears in the meantime with a G5 I might be tempted away from a portable... not sure if this would be a good or bad thing

 

[Bilba]

damn you Apple....

I just placed an order for the 1.25 15" pbook....
I was fighting it for too long and having no Mac has been too hard.

This is how I rationalized the order (for those who are interested).
1) I don't think G5 will come out in the next 1-2 monts
2) It seems that the new revision of the G4 is not that impressive, AND if it is in fact meant for the powerbook it seems like it will also take 1 or more months to happen.
3) I am currently doing my last semester at college, and I need a laptop to write few papers, code, and do a computer music class project. In short, I prefer a G4 laptop while in college than a G5 machine afterward.
4) I am going away to visit home during Spring break in two weeks and having a laptop for the long flight/doing some work while I am away will be rather nice.
5) I am upgrading from a the 20gig/dvd drive/500Mhz tibook, so I am expecting a nice boost in performance.
6) I got a good deal via the Developer store, so I should be able to sell it for a minor loss if I'll choose to do so and upgrade later on.

As a result I figured out that it is more than likely that neither the G5 or the new G4 will not happen before I am back from my trip, which at that point I will NEED a laptop. So why not order it today rather than in 4 weeks and enjoy it now?

I hope I have made the right decision. The only things that can happen that will ruin it for me are (In worse to least worse order, again for those who care):
1) Apple will announce G5 powerbook, which will cost the same as the current model AND will be available for delivery during late March. (Very unlikely).
2) Apple will announce the new G4 which comes with 7200 harddrive and x4 superdrive and 1x512mb memory and better screen AND cost either the same or less than the current model AND will be available for shipment arround late March. (Also unlikely, given the late report of availablility in 3-5 months).
3) Apple just drops the price of the current model in 11 days by more than 150$. If it is less than that, I won't care. I figured out its worth me that much to have the machine with me during my trip.

That's it. My longest post in macrumors, which probably no one cares about. Well, maybe it will help others who consider wait vs. buy now.

P.S if any of you think that my logic is faulty, please let me know. There is still time to cancel it and change my rationale

BTW: where can I get good and low priced x2 dvd-r media ?

 

[hayesk]

Bilba, I would say your logic is right on. You want a PowerBook to use now, and you bought one - good for you!

The point that I really liked is - even if the G5 is announced in March, we probably won't be able to buy one until months from then.

I have the luxury of waiting. I have an iBook 466 which is ok for now, so I have decided to wait - when the next PB is announced, I will probably buy the existing model with an end-of-life discount. If it is a G5, I'll order one and wait, but I really think it will be another G4.

 

[iPC]

Originally posted by hayesk
Bilba, I would say your logic is right on. You want a PowerBook to use now, and you bought one - good for you!

The point that I really liked is - even if the G5 is announced in March, we probably won't be able to buy one until months from then.

I have the luxury of waiting. I have an iBook 466 which is ok for now, so I have decided to wait - when the next PB is announced, I will probably buy the existing model with an end-of-life discount. If it is a G5, I'll order one and wait, but I really think it will be another G4.

I have to agree. Buying for your needs now is much better than "it would be so cool if I could yxz..." etc.

Bravo!

Although I would like a 1.25ghz with combo drive and 2gb of RAM right now... but the ibook is good enough for now...

*sigh*

thin wallet disease can sure suck sometimes!

 

[maxvamp]

Thoughts

I just got done building an AMD64 machine. I have spent several days tweaking, and adjusting. Installing programs, and adjusting the BIOS.

After all is said and done, I go back to my little iBook, and I happily get done doing what I was there to do. Sure I can play games on the PC, but I know that at some time in the near future, I will have to tweak some more, or compensate for something I have installed, and over time, I will eventually have to scrub WindowsXp, and reinstall everything.

The amount of productivity I would normally lose on a PC is somewhat high, and as such, there are certain things I do not do on a PC. Likewise, there are things I do not do on a MAC ( lets be fair here. In my case Games seem better on a PC ).

My point is that I have a 600MHz iBook that I can achieve a slightly higher amount of productivity from, and it suites my needs for most of my tasks. Yes, it would be nice to get a G5 Powerbook, but in reality, I will not buy another laptop until this one dies. At that point, I would buy whatever is availible at the time.

I suggest anyone who needs a laptop now do the same. You will most likely get three to five years of really good use from whatever you get today. That is nothing to sneeze at.

Max.

 

[john123]

You know, I have to say that I think the current crop of PowerBooks is not that impressive. And I say this fully aware that I posted in some forum here about half a year ago that the current crop of PowerBooks is a "good value."

The issue, truly, comes down to speed. They just aren't very fast for the way that OS X is designed. Case in point, compare file browsing in the Finder and other tasks in OS 9 vs OS X. I have a PowerBook 1Ghz but, when in X rather than 9, I very much miss the speedy Finder interface. Absent Apple providing an option to turn off a lot of the stuff that slows down the Finder (e.g., antialiased fonts), the only other solution is faster chips.

When Apple creates a machine that can scroll through thousands of files, go through hierarchical menus, and perform similar tasks as fast in OS X as my 1Ghz PowerBook can do it in OS 9, then I'll be a candidate to upgrade.

 

[Tomaz]

other grafic card for new g4 pb ?!

This is my first posting in this forum.
I own a Dell notebook at the moment and decided to switch to powerbook. I'm actually not really in a rush, but can't wait to switch cause I really started to hate the windows system. So I don't wanna wait till september with buying a new pb, I kinda hope that they will release a quicker g4 very soon before the big upgrade to g5. Since the processor speed upgrade will not be huge, is there a chance we'll get a faster graphics adapter? Radeon 9700 or even 9800 maybe ?
That would be my wishlist: ~1.5GHz and ATI 9700 at least. Then I'm ordering!! Can't wait!

 

[john123]

Re: other grafic card for new g4 pb ?!

Originally posted by Tomaz
This is my first posting in this forum.
I own a Dell notebook at the moment and decided to switch to powerbook. I'm actually not really in a rush, but can't wait to switch cause I really started to hate the windows system. So I don't wanna wait till september with buying a new pb, I kinda hope that they will release a quicker g4 very soon before the big upgrade to g5. Since the processor speed upgrade will not be huge, is there a chance we'll get a faster graphics adapter? Radeon 9700 or even 9800 maybe ?
That would be my wishlist: ~1.5GHz and ATI 9700 at least. Then I'm ordering!! Can't wait!

I can't imagine the 9700 not appearing in the next crop of PowerBooks...

 

[aswitcher]

Re: Re: other grafic card for new g4 pb ?!

Originally posted by john123
I can't imagine the 9700 not appearing in the next crop of PowerBooks...

Yep. If its just a G4 tweak then they are going to have to wack on the upgrades to make it look more than the bandaid it would be. New screens (probably quite likely after last years fiasco), new graphics cards, at least half a gig ram standard, bigger base harddisks (maybe faster), BT and AE as standard on most configs?, maybe Appleworks as standard (unlikely), faster CD/DVD...

I would prefer to wait a few more months and get the real deal in the shape of the G5...but I've got use to disappointement and waiting

 

[FinnishFlash]

Re: Re: other grafic card for new g4 pb ?!

Originally posted by john123
I can't imagine the 9700 not appearing in the next crop of PowerBooks...

But can the G4 feed the 9700 to it's full potential?

I'm going to sell my G5 DP 1.8GHz when the next round of Powerbook updates arrive. I've noticed I really don't use more than 25% of it's power 99% of the time.

 

[Tomaz]

Re: Re: Re: other grafic card for new g4 pb ?!

Originally posted by FinnishFlash
But can the G4 feed the 9700 to it's full potential?

I'm going to sell my G5 DP 1.8GHz when the next round of Powerbook updates arrive. I've noticed I really don't use more than 25% of it's power 99% of the time.

That's exactly what I'm thinking. Of course it's not nice to buy a new notebook and 6 months later, the new generation comes out. But I'll be using my powerbook for MS Office, iTunes, iPhoto, iDVD and Internet. That's it. I don't play Unreal or do rendering or video encoding. I don't think that a g5 is necessary for that. Also I'm afraid that the first generation g5-powerbooks will have some issues that will be solved in later generations. I think I prefer the last generation of the g4 over the first generation of g5. Tell me if I'm wrong....

 

[~Shard~]

Re: Re: Re: Re: other grafic card for new g4 pb ?!

Originally posted by Tomaz
That's exactly what I'm thinking. Of course it's not nice to buy a new notebook and 6 months later, the new generation comes out. But I'll be using my powerbook for MS Office, iTunes, iPhoto, iDVD and Internet. That's it. I don't play Unreal or do rendering or video encoding. I don't think that a g5 is necessary for that. Also I'm afraid that the first generation g5-powerbooks will have some issues that will be solved in later generations. I think I prefer the last generation of the g4 over the first generation of g5. Tell me if I'm wrong....

That's a fair point - lots of time people don't realize that they don't NEED a G5 for what they want to do with their machine. They just figure since it's the latest and greatest, they better have it! Obviously there are many people out there who do intense video encoding, etc. who probably could use that 3 GHz G5 right now, but for a fair percentage of users, the G4 would probably do everything they need - I know I'm in that boat.

 

[a17inchFuture]

So I am reading macosrumors.net today, and they seem pretty confident that the new motorola chips are to be used in the next rev of pb's, which they say is literally around the corner.

But didn't the article say the chips wouldn't be ready for mass usage until 3-6 months from now? Wouldn't that be a bit long for the next pbook updates? And wouldn't it put the next pbook (prob a g5) on th back burner until at least 2005? I don't think they would update the g4 pbook, and then three months later pull a switch to g5? I think the people who just bought a g4 would be pissed, one of whom will probably be me.

And as a side note: Isn't macosrumors.net usually wrong?

 

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by a17inchFuture
And as a side note: Isn't macosrumors.net usually wrong?

I presume that you mean 'macosrumors.com', as 'macosrumors.net' doesn't exist. And, yes, MOSR is known for their poor track record. It's been said by some that they make up rumors just to boost their site visitation...

 

[aswitcher]

Originally posted by a17inchFuture
SNIP

But didn't the article say the chips wouldn't be ready for mass usage until 3-6 months from now? Wouldn't that be a bit long for the next pbook updates? And wouldn't it put the next pbook (prob a g5) on th back burner until at least 2005? I don't think they would update the g4 pbook, and then three months later pull a switch to g5? I think the people who just bought a g4 would be pissed, one of whom will probably be me.

SNIP

Yep, so its either goign to appear summer NH or a revamp G4, with the G5 perhaps MacWorld 2005...

 

[john123]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: other grafic card for new g4 pb ?!

Originally posted by ~Shard~
That's a fair point - lots of time people don't realize that they don't NEED a G5 for what they want to do with their machine. They just figure since it's the latest and greatest, they better have it! Obviously there are many people out there who do intense video encoding, etc. who probably could use that 3 GHz G5 right now, but for a fair percentage of users, the G4 would probably do everything they need - I know I'm in that boat.

I think this line of logic, while not altogether "inaccurate," is nevertheless somewhat spurious. Granted, most folks don't do high-power video stuff with crazy codecs and the like. At the same time, though, there is a speed gain that can be appreciated by even the novice user with a faster machine. I myself loathe how clunky OS X is in Finder browsing relative to OS 9, and that alone is justification to me to get a faster computer when the percentage increase is sufficient.

 

[gopher]

Originally posted by john123
You know, I have to say that I think the current crop of PowerBooks is not that impressive. And I say this fully aware that I posted in some forum here about half a year ago that the current crop of PowerBooks is a "good value."

The issue, truly, comes down to speed. They just aren't very fast for the way that OS X is designed. Case in point, compare file browsing in the Finder and other tasks in OS 9 vs OS X. I have a PowerBook 1Ghz but, when in X rather than 9, I very much miss the speedy Finder interface. Absent Apple providing an option to turn off a lot of the stuff that slows down the Finder (e.g., antialiased fonts), the only other solution is faster chips.

When Apple creates a machine that can scroll through thousands of files, go through hierarchical menus, and perform similar tasks as fast in OS X as my 1Ghz PowerBook can do it in OS 9, then I'll be a candidate to upgrade.

I have no trouble with my 1.33 Ghz Powerbook G4 with Mac OS X's speed. Most of the time the computer is waiting for me to give it the next command. It is incredibly spiffy.

 

[john123]

Originally posted by gopher
I have no trouble with my 1.33 Ghz Powerbook G4 with Mac OS X's speed. Most of the time the computer is waiting for me to give it the next command. It is incredibly spiffy.

Yeah, I remember when the Quadra 650 with its blazing 33Mhz 68040 was something I drooled at, too.

"Fast" is a relative term. Compare your 1.33Ghz PowerBook's Finder navigation with Finder navigation in OS 9 on a machine that runs at half the clockspeed. You'll find the latter machine, despite its slower processor, to be much faster at these tasks.

 

[johnnyjibbs]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: other grafic card for new g4 pb ?!

Originally posted by john123
I think this line of logic, while not altogether "inaccurate," is nevertheless somewhat spurious. Granted, most folks don't do high-power video stuff with crazy codecs and the like. At the same time, though, there is a speed gain that can be appreciated by even the novice user with a faster machine. I myself loathe how clunky OS X is in Finder browsing relative to OS 9, and that alone is justification to me to get a faster computer when the percentage increase is sufficient.

A lot of this waiting is due to the 4200rpm hard drives in PowerBooks. Mind you, OS X is very fast on my machine (10.3.2 seems faster than 3.1 and much faster than 10.2.7 and 8 too) with no lag whatsoever. Finder browsing is quicker than our new Dell desktop at home with Windows XP.