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Motorola and PowerBook, iMac Delays

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I can't believe those of you who continue this fantastic megagalactic bs that "ohi ohi ohi, lulalala, IT IS MOTOROLA's FAULT "

WTF are you thinking ? do you have an up to date Mac, be it PM, PB, iBool (ahahahahah) or iMac ? no. Oh sorry, it is MOT's fault. Do you think some half intelligent buyer is goint to say "oh well, I would love a Mac, ooops, I however understand this Mac are a bit underperforming, but ok ok, it is not Apple's fault, I understand"


ahahahaahhahaha

I guess what will be his final statement: "I understand. poor Apple really not its fault, but while Apple gets its c**p together I will buy a decent performing PC"

Now, clearly very few people around here are as half intelligent as you simply don't get it.
 
Well, point-by-point:

1. Duh. Moto had some problems, 'Books are late. Maybe late Sept. If we're lucky. Duh.

2. No one ever said there was a target date for either. If the 970 is ready to sell by Sept, they are on schedule. Moto may be right on schedule with their 7457s for all we know. But they probably aren't. They're probably late, as usual. That's why we hate them.

3. Rebates end in Sept., coinciding with several trade shows. If they've got nothing to show, they will suffer. We will b*tch (and we will b*tch). And have every right to. But I'm, thinking Sept. anyway.

4. Please stop saying "c'mon" Apple and threatening to buy a Dell. Accept it, new 'Books in Sept. If we're lucky. If you're going to buy a PC, go ahead. No sarcasm, it's just a computer. Personally, I hate Dells. My Stepmom's is terrible, and has LITERALLY 1 hour of battery life. even when it steps-down to half the CPU speed and dims the screen.

5. The current 'Books aren't that bad. No one likes to buy something that will be "outdated" in a few months, but such is technology. The 12" still seems to be doing rather well. I wouldn't wait this long just for a minor speed bump.

6. No dual 'Books any time soon. No way.

7. G5 'Books will be nice, but I'm not holding my breath. I hope I'm wrong.

8. G3 with Altivec is called Mojave. So far it's a just rumor. The Gobi does not have Altivec (that we know of), and will be about 1.1 GHz. Not a rumor, but we don't know the specifics yet. Except that it will be coming later in the year. Possibly. We hope.

9. iBooks were updated in April. eMac in May. No updates for awhile. iMacs first, probably after the P'Books. Hopefully at higher speeds than 1.3 GHz. xServes, too. Hopefully G5s.

10. IBM doesn't suck. Moto does. IBM saved Moto's @$$ during that whole 500 MHz G4 debacle. If IBM has the same issues, they will suck, too. And we will hate them. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

I really don't want to have to hate IBM too.
 
A rather inflamatory response

You do not seem to understand the dynamics of the situation, nor Motorola's shaky past with Apple.

And Apple cannot ditch plans that have been in the works for long periods of time, drop them at a hat, and then somehow shoot out a machine with no guts...

Apple can't ship a machine without a processor.

Apple can't use G3, the logic board is for G4.

Apple can't use G5, the boards won't be ready for half a year.

Apple is stuck over a barrel and it *IS* because of Motorola.

Motorola promised to ship the chips by mid May. It's now July, almost August, no chips.

So please refrain from purely derogatory and inflamatory comments that are devoid of any actual facts.

Thank you.

Jaedreth
 
With the current hardware that Apple has to choose from I don't see an immediate delievery of SMP notebooks. That doesn't mean that it is a bad idea by any means.

Once you'r running an OS like OS/X, SMP becomes a very credible feature on any PC. But like everything else in life you need to get by the engineering trade offs.

Thanks
Dave


Originally posted by sockseller
Can someone explain to me why people want dual-chip Powerbooks?

Maybe if Moto or Apple can cut the power consumption and radiant heat by a half...
Click to expand...
 
Dual Proc PB G4

You know, Apple does *want* to do Dual Proc G4's. However, they can't do that if Motorola can't supply an abundance of chips. Right now, they are still so far behind schedule it's not funny.

So even if we do get a PB G4 update, it's not going to be dual, thanks to Motorola.

So the PowerBooks will move to G5. At *that* point it will be an even further possibility of having dual processors. Not unless they wind up using low power consumption ones, at lower frequencies.

Now, if Apple could secure lower power chips, lower heat, lower voltage requirements, then it might be able to pull this off.

Imagine having PowerBook G5's available in 1GHz, 1.3 GHz (12"), 1.3GHz, 1.6 GHz (15"), 1.6GHz, Dual 1GHz (17").

So with this, Apple could offer a DP powerbook. Also, a DP 15" could be a configure to order via the Apple Store, if Apple wanted to be so bold. But they would have to use lower rating chips to do so.

Jaedreth
 
Originally posted by NHMac
Showing some extreme ingorance here... is there any IP that Moto or IBM has that would prevent another high volume chip maker, say AMD, Intel, Nvida, from making a G4/G5 chip? For Apple? They seem to have the processes down, why not leverage the volume and expertise they have in mass producing many, many processors?
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Well, nVidia doesn't produce chips, they simply design them. AMD and Intel are slaves for the Evil King Bill, so I don't see them pitching in any time soon...
 
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
______________________________________

This could also be a time for a "new" G4 with the IBM G3+altivec. Wouldn't that help everyone? Give IBM's new plant more business to keep them more efficient, give us a quicker and higher yield of products, less delays, more updates, show Motorola we don't need to deal with their BS, etc. It seems like IBM already has the ability to crank out G3s that could spank a Motorola G4, all they need is to add the altivec and they'll really fly.
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't a G4 basically a slightly improved G3 with Altivec?
 

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If a single processor has sufficient clock speed, dual processor is really not necessary. Also, for the sake of battery life, it is better to have single, efficient processor.

Personally I do not care if Apple does come up with dual processor laptop or not, as long as it performs well and has decent battery life.

Having said that, MOTOROLA IS NOT HELPING THE SITUATION MUCH!

For AGES, Motorola had Apple stuck around 500MHz with their G4 and even then caused delays because they couldn't ship enough chips on time. If you think Motorola is not at fault for causing trouble for Apple, slower sales (Power Macs) or losing market share (lack of speed upgrade on G4's) then you really have not followed Apple products long enough.
 
Amen

Yeah, anyone who has followed Apple since before the PPC era knows the score...

I remember when the 020 was a currently shipping chip.

And I agree about the battery issue. However, certain recon hints that Apple may be looking at alternatives to batteries. I really do expect the G5 to use this new technology if Apple has in fact already found a supplier, and if Apple does, dual processors will not be a problem.

But that's pure rumor and speculation at this point.

Jaedreth
 
Re: Amen

No, but heat may be...

Originally posted by jaedreth
I really do expect the G5 to use this new technology if Apple has in fact already found a supplier, and if Apple does, dual processors will not be a problem.
Click to expand...
 
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't a G4 basically a slightly improved G3 with Altivec?
Click to expand...
Yes it is. AltiVec is a type of SIMD (Single Instruction Multiple Data) that is designed to help processing multimedia (movies, music, etc) data informations.

But AltiVec is Motorola's version of SIMD and IBM has its own that it has implemented on their 970/G5 processor. IBM never embraced AltiVec and stuck with G3 development without SIMD. But there has been rumors about IBM developing G3 with their own SIMD (Gobi or something rather). So technically if IBM does build such processor, it could be could be considered a variation of G4.

Some people who consider G3 from IBM to be ideal for mobile computing because of good performance, energy requirement and etc. So it is not entirely without hope or expectation that IBM does develop its own G4 that can outperform G4 from Motorola.
 
it is apple's fault, they should have plan b ready the second it was obvious that mot wasn't going to be delivering the goods, probably was a couple of weeks before june wwdc.

plan b could have included cosmetic 15pb updates, like bluetooth, extreme, and firewire 800. not the biggest deal but sufficient to convince some folks to buy now instead of waiting (and waiting and waiting) and not think they will be getting an obsolete machine.

instead of being severely outdated, the 15 pb would just be outdated as the rest of the line.

it is silly to partially update the 15 pb, then updated again with the rest of the line, but a consumer oriented company would have considered that option, especially considering past delays.

either way, i'm waiting until a couple of days before school starts and i'm buying whatever the 15 pb product is out there. unless some one here would like to argue that the upgrades and price increase of the 15 ai doesn't make up for the cost saving of the 15 ti right now (with ed discount). anyone saying that?
 
Simply unacceptable, Motorolla. I'm tierd of it. Apple's products have suffered because of you for the last time! 😡
 
wait !

new user,
if I were you I'd wait, especially considering that you can "afford" to wait. Wait and see what happens, till school starts. I have a feeling the current PB's are pretty archaic and would not keep up adequately with new OS as well as other software developments.
 
it is apple's fault, they should have plan b ready the second it was obvious that mot wasn't going to be delivering the goods, probably was a couple of weeks before june wwdc.

plan b could have included cosmetic 15pb updates, like bluetooth, extreme, and firewire 800. not the biggest deal but sufficient to convince some folks to buy now instead of waiting (and waiting and waiting) and not think they will be getting an obsolete machine.

instead of being severely outdated, the 15 pb would just be outdated as the rest of the line.

it is silly to partially update the 15 pb, then updated again with the rest of the line, but a consumer oriented company would have considered that option, especially considering past delays.

either way, i'm waiting until a couple of days before school starts and i'm buying whatever the 15 pb product is out there. unless some one here would like to argue that the upgrades and price increase of the 15 ai doesn't make up for the cost saving of the 15 ti right now (with ed discount). anyone saying that?
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Cosmetic update for 15" PowerBook?

The real issue at this point is the performance of Apple products which is the area that Apple has been lagging (Motorola being a significant factor, if not the factor). Cosmetic upgrade at this point is pointless. Apple already introduced Power Macs with G5. People are expecting G5 PowerBooks, which is probably another year away from materializing. They need to boost performance on G4 PowerBooks. Mere cosmetic update is pointless. And if they want to update their PowerBook lines, they need latest processors for design and configuration. Apple probably already did worked that out with Motorola, except now Motorola can't deliver the parts.

Apple has been working with IBM and Motorola in partnership developing PowerPC processors. Only member that has consistently caused problems is Motorola and that is a fact. There has been many rumors about Motorola working on G5 but that never came through. IBM at least, even though it took them a while, delivered 970/G5.
 
Originally posted by macphoria
Yes it is. AltiVec is a type of SIMD (Single Instruction Multiple Data) that is designed to help processing multimedia (movies, music, etc) data informations.

But AltiVec is Motorola's version of SIMD and IBM has its own that it has implemented on their 970/G5 processor. IBM never embraced AltiVec and stuck with G3 development without SIMD. But there has been rumors about IBM developing G3 with their own SIMD (Gobi or something rather). So technically if IBM does build such processor, it could be could be considered a variation of G4.

Some people who consider G3 from IBM to be ideal for mobile computing because of good performance, energy requirement and etc. So it is not entirely without hope or expectation that IBM does develop its own G4 that can outperform G4 from Motorola.
Click to expand...


There are more differences between G3 and G4 than just Altivec.
G3 was basically derived from PPC 603. G4 borrowed lot from its PPC 604 father 🙂.eg FPU unit, that is considered to be much better than G3 one. I'm just sayin' that if you slap altivec unit on G3 it doesn't necessarily turns it into G4.
 
There are more differences between G3 and G4 than just Altivec.
G3 was basically derived from PPC 603. G4 borrowed lot from its PPC 604 father .eg FPU unit, that is considered to be much better than G3 one. I'm just sayin' that if you slap altivec unit on G3 it doesn't necessarily turns it into G4.
Click to expand...
Yes indeed. But hopefully you got the point I was trying to make, which is IBM has moved its G3 development along (which by the way can outperform Motorola's G4 at similar clockspeed in some non-AltiVec tasks) and could come out with G3 with SIMD that has potential to outperform Motorola's G4.
 
Originally posted by macphoria
Yes indeed. But hopefully you got the point I was trying to make, which is IBM has moved its G3 development along (which by the way can outperform Motorola's G4 at similar clockspeed in some non-AltiVec tasks) and could come out with G3 with SIMD that has potential to outperform Motorola's G4.
Click to expand...

Point certainly taken. Lets just hope that IBM will be able to come up with something in some reasonable time, that would replace Motorola CPU's in Apple's consumer boxes.This thing with Motorola inability to deliver is getting downright pathetic.
 
well this just sucks worse than anyone could have imagined.... i think i'll go turn on the oven and climb in.


Ok I'm over that.


How the HELL did this happen? could apple really have let motorola jerk them around for this long without having a plan b? if the rumors are saying that production is delayed until mid september, what's to suggest that they'll sort out whatever problem they're having between now and then? They're already months and months overdue. I don't see how another 2 weeks is going to fix whatever new catastrophe they've encountered.

It seems to me that laptops are probably going to get a tiny speed bump if anything at all, by overclocking the existing chips, and then another (hopefully) sizeable price drop. Once the deadline approaches and motorola drops the ball again, we'll be looking at early next year for an updated machine. By then, who knows. Hopefully apple put plan b into effect as soon as they got wind of motorola's foul-up.
 
the apple store is off limits... what's up?

just checked the apple store and it's off limits, it seems... maybe some PB or other news on the way???
 
Re: the apple store is off limits... what's up?

Originally posted by kshkval
just checked the apple store and it's off limits, it seems... maybe some PB or other news on the way???
Click to expand...

Loads fine for me. You ran into one of their maintainence periods.
 
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