Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Motorola MPC7457 PDF
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
i hope this theoretical speed increase of 40% turns out to be true. it's been a long time coming, but perhaps the double L2 and bigger L3 cache will really help. they'd better make a big difference... they're the only things that are different from the 7455.
and since Moto has posted that PDF, does that mean that now the 7457 is in large enought quantities to ship? could we be seeing updated PowerBooks soon?
and MattG, up until a couple of months ago i also had a 667 TiBook. i found it OK in speed, so now i guess i'd be happy with a 1GHz PowerBook, just as long as it had an aluminium case and the features of the 17" (backlit keyboard, blah, blah....)
Apple had better keep the prices where they are. if they go back up and there's no 40% performance increase then it's a second hand 1GHz TiBook for me.
and since Moto has posted that PDF, does that mean that now the 7457 is in large enought quantities to ship? could we be seeing updated PowerBooks soon?
and MattG, up until a couple of months ago i also had a 667 TiBook. i found it OK in speed, so now i guess i'd be happy with a 1GHz PowerBook, just as long as it had an aluminium case and the features of the 17" (backlit keyboard, blah, blah....)
Apple had better keep the prices where they are. if they go back up and there's no 40% performance increase then it's a second hand 1GHz TiBook for me.
Yes, that would be great for an update. Now just f***ing announce it already so I can buy one, Apple!!!!?!?!?!
it's something at least...
There is already a 1.4Ghz G4 chip. I didn't read the PDF, but I'm guessing this new chip is a low power unit suitable for Powerbooks.
We already have an 867 and 1ghz G4 laptop chip, so what's the point of this? The only thing it adds is 1.3Ghz.
A rather minimal speed bump on a platform needing a big speed boost.
Come on Motorola, stop slacking and deliver some SPEED for once.
There is already a 1.4Ghz G4 chip. I didn't read the PDF, but I'm guessing this new chip is a low power unit suitable for Powerbooks.
We already have an 867 and 1ghz G4 laptop chip, so what's the point of this? The only thing it adds is 1.3Ghz.
A rather minimal speed bump on a platform needing a big speed boost.
Come on Motorola, stop slacking and deliver some SPEED for once.
Re: laughable
perfectly put. no offense but this is just getting ridiculous.. we should boycott pbooks to get apple and IBMs arse on the move to get it over to a G5.. a while back I remember someone saying from apple that their relationship with Moto is still strong.. BOOOOOO.. this is a democracy .. competition... no need to be buddy buddy...give moto the cold shoulder they have done NOTHING good for us in TWO years. Bleh. Makes me sick.
perfectly put. no offense but this is just getting ridiculous.. we should boycott pbooks to get apple and IBMs arse on the move to get it over to a G5.. a while back I remember someone saying from apple that their relationship with Moto is still strong.. BOOOOOO.. this is a democracy .. competition... no need to be buddy buddy...give moto the cold shoulder they have done NOTHING good for us in TWO years. Bleh. Makes me sick.
Originally posted by MattG
Sometimes I read these forums and think I'm alone in thinking this, but...is anybody out there besides me not really concerned about what processor they put in there? A speed boost certainly wouldn't be a bad thing, however I'd even be happy with just a 1ghz processor like they're using now--I just want it in an aluminum body with a few other features current Powerbooks are lacking, like USB 2.0 for example. Up until a couple months ago I had a 667mhz Powerbook that I was very happy with (in terms of speed). I just want something built better!
Well, I have a Pweobook G3 500 and I'm fine with the speed, I'm doing heavy video with it but... I would like to get a Powerbook with more power. I'm glad my biggest concern is video ram more than processor. The real spped of a computer is when you add all the ram that you can. Now I would like to have a 12" Powerbook with everything in it but I feel upset of the lack of speed Powerbooks are suffering.
My best bet is to wait for the next line and get the obsolet line for less, may be $500 less.
any update = good. long time between updates = bad
I agree with the optimists here that any update will be a good one and chips at 1.33GHz with double the cache would be great even if the bus still lags at 167MHz and the update is LONG over-due.
I'm in the camp that says "I need to buy a laptop right now". So, unless Apple can throw us a bone - that would ship before Sept. 1 - I'm going to have to settle for one of the curent models. Very frustrating. :-(
I agree with the optimists here that any update will be a good one and chips at 1.33GHz with double the cache would be great even if the bus still lags at 167MHz and the update is LONG over-due.
I'm in the camp that says "I need to buy a laptop right now". So, unless Apple can throw us a bone - that would ship before Sept. 1 - I'm going to have to settle for one of the curent models. Very frustrating. :-(
Two things.
First off, isn't it true that Apple has 1.42 Ghz G4 chips from Motorola, although they claim on their website that it only goes up to 1.2 GHz (or possible 1 Ghz)? So just because they are only admitting to 1.3 GHz doesn't mean Apple can get some at 1.5 let's say.
Secondly, I though both caches were to double. while it has not been available on the PowerBooks, 2 MB of L3 cache has been on the PowerMacs for quite some time now. Shouldn't this chip have up to 4 MB of L3 cache? Maybe I just misread that, and only the L2 cache was to be doubled.
In either event, pretty weak Moto.
First off, isn't it true that Apple has 1.42 Ghz G4 chips from Motorola, although they claim on their website that it only goes up to 1.2 GHz (or possible 1 Ghz)? So just because they are only admitting to 1.3 GHz doesn't mean Apple can get some at 1.5 let's say.
Secondly, I though both caches were to double. while it has not been available on the PowerBooks, 2 MB of L3 cache has been on the PowerMacs for quite some time now. Shouldn't this chip have up to 4 MB of L3 cache? Maybe I just misread that, and only the L2 cache was to be doubled.
In either event, pretty weak Moto.
Appropriate
I think it's somewhat appropriate that this information came out on the same day that Motorola dropped off the top-10 chip manufacturer list for the first time in its corporate history dating back decades. Still, it'll be a nice little boost for the low end and if they've reduced costs, could lead to slightly better margins for Apple.
I think it's somewhat appropriate that this information came out on the same day that Motorola dropped off the top-10 chip manufacturer list for the first time in its corporate history dating back decades. Still, it'll be a nice little boost for the low end and if they've reduced costs, could lead to slightly better margins for Apple.
I'm so ready for ANY upgrade that it is ok if they don't have a higher bus speed. All I want is an upgrade. Apple, will you please give me one?
I dunno, looks okay to me.
1 GHz 12" and 15". 1.33 GHz 15" and 17". 166 MHz FSB. DDR 333. Up to 2 MB cache. Up to 80 GB HDDs. Faster Combo and Super drives. Better video card. Hopefully USB 2, FW800, BT, Airport Extreme, audio in/out. Keep 'em at the same prices or lower and it doesn't seem that bad. Not that great, but not horrible. Better than a Centrino with XP.
So far I've been unimpressed with anything on the Windows Laptop side, except IBMs. Still not that great. Sony's weren't that great either IMO, and my StepMom's Dell is terrible.
I'd get a 12" if it were just a little better. Like 2 user accessable DIMM slots, among other things. As long as the new ones aren't 867 MHz.
Too bad they won't be out until late Sept.
1 GHz 12" and 15". 1.33 GHz 15" and 17". 166 MHz FSB. DDR 333. Up to 2 MB cache. Up to 80 GB HDDs. Faster Combo and Super drives. Better video card. Hopefully USB 2, FW800, BT, Airport Extreme, audio in/out. Keep 'em at the same prices or lower and it doesn't seem that bad. Not that great, but not horrible. Better than a Centrino with XP.
So far I've been unimpressed with anything on the Windows Laptop side, except IBMs. Still not that great. Sony's weren't that great either IMO, and my StepMom's Dell is terrible.
I'd get a 12" if it were just a little better. Like 2 user accessable DIMM slots, among other things. As long as the new ones aren't 867 MHz.
Too bad they won't be out until late Sept.
The anticipation for a new 15" PowerBook is driving me crazy. Granted, I have been using my Lombard G3 series Powerbook since the day it came out in '99, and it still works considerably well and it is mighty fast (in OS 9... in OS X it is slower than a 3 legged dog on crack, causing me to basically run in OS 9 exclusively to get any real work done) My dad said he'll help me buy a new laptop before I go back to school this September, but if it doesn't happen in the next two weeks or so, it'll be all but hopeless. I know the Ti would work fine, but I never really liked the design as much as my G3 and definitely not nearly as much as the new case design, plus a faster Airport, faster HD, built in bluetooth, and rumored light up keyboard of the 17" are just too many small things that add up to make it worth settling on an outdated 15". Here's hoping for the updated PowerBooks soon, because I sure would love to jump into OS X in full force on a new 15" AlBook before I go back to college. I'm about two inches away from getting on my knees in front of Apple headquarters and begging/offering my firstborn.
G4
G4? Sing all together now, "Lets do the time warp again ..."
Looks like my money will stay in my pocket.
G4? Sing all together now, "Lets do the time warp again ..."
Looks like my money will stay in my pocket.
This should suffice until the G5 makes it into PowerBooks next year. (And it will be next year, or at least quite a while, Apple said so themselves).
I'm happy with this. I just want it to ship. Yes, a G5 would be fantastic but it is not ready yet. Think September 2004.
Once this comes out it will be the fastest Powerbook Apple ever shipped. More important to me, the overall feature set and integration of the PowerBook will be killer. A brighter, clearer screen, Airport Extreme, improved airport reception, backlit keyboard, bluetooth, better GPU, better battery life (presumably), maybe even a tad lighter. Having all these features in a small package and having them work harmoniously and reliably is more important to me than raw speed.
I would like a faster CPU than this for bragging rights but honestly, for all the applications I run this will be fast enough.
Possible exception will be Virtual PC 6 which I need to run our in-house proprietary app. However, that already runs so-so on an 867 QS. Should be great on this new PowerBook.
Not only that, various rumor sites are saying that Panther will be appreciably faster than Jaguar. A speed-bump in a CD. This is a great time to be using a Mac. I don't understand all the doom and gloom.
Now, if Apple would only ship the darn thing. I'm budgeted and ready to buy.
Off Topic:
Anyone else going to the opening of the Burlingame store Saturday morning?
Once this comes out it will be the fastest Powerbook Apple ever shipped. More important to me, the overall feature set and integration of the PowerBook will be killer. A brighter, clearer screen, Airport Extreme, improved airport reception, backlit keyboard, bluetooth, better GPU, better battery life (presumably), maybe even a tad lighter. Having all these features in a small package and having them work harmoniously and reliably is more important to me than raw speed.
I would like a faster CPU than this for bragging rights but honestly, for all the applications I run this will be fast enough.
Possible exception will be Virtual PC 6 which I need to run our in-house proprietary app. However, that already runs so-so on an 867 QS. Should be great on this new PowerBook.
Not only that, various rumor sites are saying that Panther will be appreciably faster than Jaguar. A speed-bump in a CD. This is a great time to be using a Mac. I don't understand all the doom and gloom.
Now, if Apple would only ship the darn thing. I'm budgeted and ready to buy.
Off Topic:
Anyone else going to the opening of the Burlingame store Saturday morning?
Quick specs
Here's a quick comparison of the low-power lines:
PPC7447 - new:
1.3 GHz
True DDR RAM support
2 MB L3 cache
130 nanometer, 9-layer CMOS
58 Million transistors
98.28 mm2
1.3 V Core power
PPC7450/7451 - current:
1.0 GHz
No true DDR RAM support
2 MB L3 cache
180 nanometer, 6-layer CMOS
33 Million transistors
106 mm2
1.6 V Core power
I think it's a pretty nice upgrade. It's no G5, but I could see this nearly doubling the speed of the current lineup.
Here's a quick comparison of the low-power lines:
PPC7447 - new:
1.3 GHz
True DDR RAM support
2 MB L3 cache
130 nanometer, 9-layer CMOS
58 Million transistors
98.28 mm2
1.3 V Core power
PPC7450/7451 - current:
1.0 GHz
No true DDR RAM support
2 MB L3 cache
180 nanometer, 6-layer CMOS
33 Million transistors
106 mm2
1.6 V Core power
I think it's a pretty nice upgrade. It's no G5, but I could see this nearly doubling the speed of the current lineup.
I disagree that Apple should not use the chip. It is a die reduction to .13 micron and will be more energy efficient, causing less heat on the PBs and longerlife. It is also supposed to be 40% cheaper, so that could allow for good price cuts across the board.
Moto-who???
I wonder how many years it will take them to completly ruin their semiconductor dep. beyond any chance of recovery..!
...well, they are doing their best to achive that goal. the downside of the story is the fact that this behavior affects Apple too...
grrrrrrrr
let's hope that IBM pulls the "mystery/phantom G3+altivec"-processor (which probably doesn't exist anyway) out of the hat so that Apple has a chip alternative for the sub-powermac lines
vSpacken
I wonder how many years it will take them to completly ruin their semiconductor dep. beyond any chance of recovery..!...well, they are doing their best to achive that goal. the downside of the story is the fact that this behavior affects Apple too...
grrrrrrrr
let's hope that IBM pulls the "mystery/phantom G3+altivec"-processor (which probably doesn't exist anyway) out of the hat so that Apple has a chip alternative for the sub-powermac lines
vSpacken
While I can't completely disagree with you with respect to a 40% increase that value has to be taken into context with a rather slow ramp in Power Book performance. I don't believe that the 970 yet has a place in a laptop, to this end a 7457 running at a speed of 1.6 GHz would have been much more desirable. Sure it is a long ways away from the G5 performance wise but I really was hoping that it was doable. We can only hope that Apple has some chips being speced for them at higher frequencies. It is not like that hasn't happened before.
What really has my interest though is the 36 bit addressing, I'm wondering if this is compatable with the way Saemgol and Panther as suspected to be managing memory? Any MMU experts out there? What I would love more than anything is for the low cost lines to have expansion capabilities beyond the 2 & 4 gigByte limits. I have it in my mind that this would be doable easily by apple. Yes I realize that a PROCESS would be limited to 4GB of memory. Thats not a bad thing and is better than trying to force programs and data into the small memory footprints of the machines.
Just a thought.
Dave
What really has my interest though is the 36 bit addressing, I'm wondering if this is compatable with the way Saemgol and Panther as suspected to be managing memory? Any MMU experts out there? What I would love more than anything is for the low cost lines to have expansion capabilities beyond the 2 & 4 gigByte limits. I have it in my mind that this would be doable easily by apple. Yes I realize that a PROCESS would be limited to 4GB of memory. Thats not a bad thing and is better than trying to force programs and data into the small memory footprints of the machines.
Just a thought.
Dave
Why don't we have IBM manufacturing these? At the very least manufacturing them, although it would be nice if IBM could get design revision rights as well. It would give IBM more production work to use its new facility for (helping them there), while at the same time helping Apple and getting an unwanted product off of Motorola's hands!
What does Motorola do well nowadays anyway? Are they dying or what?
What does Motorola do well nowadays anyway? Are they dying or what?
I'm reading through the specs and it is clearly stating 15.8 watts @ 1GHz and 18.7 @ 1.3 GHz typical. Max wattage is higher still.
Do these numbers strike anyone as still not being a significant improvement? Lets face it who wants a twenty watt light bulb sitting on their lap.
What I've seen so far is indicating a die shrink with very minor tweaks. This is terrible, should have happened a year ago. Maybe I'm to demanding but power usages has to be considered important to some.
Thanks
Dave
Do these numbers strike anyone as still not being a significant improvement? Lets face it who wants a twenty watt light bulb sitting on their lap.
What I've seen so far is indicating a die shrink with very minor tweaks. This is terrible, should have happened a year ago. Maybe I'm to demanding but power usages has to be considered important to some.
Thanks
Dave
C'mon people i really don't see what's so bad about this update.
This new G4 could actually be ok for PowerBook and i,eMac updates.
Although Motorola lists 1.3 Ghz as a max speed there is also another line of G4's that is sold to Apple (XC model numbers) and these are usually clocked higher. Thats why Apple was selling 1.45 Ghz PM while Motorola web site would lists max clock speeds around 1GHz. I'm positive that G4 XC could go as high as 1.6 Ghz. Of course i dont know what amont of heat this cpu would generate and if it would be suitable for PB,but it would go nicely into new consumer boxes ala iMac. Doubling amount of L2 cache is also an improvement and it really speeds up things particulary on G4/G3 architecture. It could be said that bus speed is the weakest link in G4 family of cpu's and this cpu doesn't do much to change it. Yeah measly 33 mhz increase won't do miracles but it can be offset by larger amount of L3 cache as someone previously has mentioned here. There's also that infamous Apple system controler with its few tricks to speed up things little further.
All in all seems like a decent update until IBM comes up with lower power (cooler) G5's.
This new G4 could actually be ok for PowerBook and i,eMac updates.
Although Motorola lists 1.3 Ghz as a max speed there is also another line of G4's that is sold to Apple (XC model numbers) and these are usually clocked higher. Thats why Apple was selling 1.45 Ghz PM while Motorola web site would lists max clock speeds around 1GHz. I'm positive that G4 XC could go as high as 1.6 Ghz. Of course i dont know what amont of heat this cpu would generate and if it would be suitable for PB,but it would go nicely into new consumer boxes ala iMac. Doubling amount of L2 cache is also an improvement and it really speeds up things particulary on G4/G3 architecture. It could be said that bus speed is the weakest link in G4 family of cpu's and this cpu doesn't do much to change it. Yeah measly 33 mhz increase won't do miracles but it can be offset by larger amount of L3 cache as someone previously has mentioned here. There's also that infamous Apple system controler
with its few tricks to speed up things little further.All in all seems like a decent update until IBM comes up with lower power (cooler) G5's.