Motorola Wins Preliminary Injunction, Could Bar Sales of iPhone and 3G iPad in Europe [Updated x2]

[divinox]

im not surprised the US is so much into debs. I watched some live us tv recently and was shocked at those commercials. Everything is promoted as "free" "affortable for everyone" on low credits credits credits.

I grew up with "never ever buy anything on credit, dont u dare" and to this day i dont




I sadly have to agree, all im seeing is Samsung lately and ppl r like "lol u still have an iphone" and my god those "whos gonna sue apple next" or "can u send me this song over bluetooth ... Oh wait" jokes r getting annoying

Same here. Thank god for that. Best way to keep people down, have them consume things they can't afford. That way they'll never become rich. A member of the most prominent swedish families (in financial and business terms - the family now indirectly control 1/3 of Swedish BNP) reportedly once said something in the following line:

The true road to richness does not go through vast incomes, but small and controlled expenses.

As i see it, nothing could ever be more true. If you ever want not to work, you have to let money work for you.

 

[Abazigal]

Apple should have never started these fury of lawsuits. They were outselling them (all competitors) outright without having to use "The Suits" involved. Only win here are lawyers.

I disagree. It is exactly because Apple is enjoying such success now that all the more they cannot afford to rest on their laurels and think that everything will continue to always go their way.

Success now doesn't necessarily imply that they can continue to always leapfrog the competition in terms of innovation. For all we know, tablets is just be a phase and it may only be a matter of time before another company releases the next "in" thing for gadgetry.

If there ever was a time to start solidifying your position on the tech market or think about what changes to make, now is it.

Moreover, if Apple were to wait until sales/demand for their products were on the decline due to widespread copying before they started initiating this sort of lawsuits, it would be far too late to remedy anything. The damage would already have been done.

It's basic management 101. I may not necessarily agree with the way Apple is going about it, but I can certainly understand their motives.

 

[divinox]

I do pay a licensing fee to use Microsoft's .Net framework. Most free open source frameworks have specified licenses as well.

Which would've been interesting if it was relevant. Are you free to write a framework paralleling the functionality offered by .NET? Pretty much, yes. Would MSFT get paid for the work they put into .NET, regardless of software patents? Most certainly. How do i know? Simple buy-or-make decision. Replicating the functionality yourself (i.e. not copying, as that would infringe on copyright) would cost you more than paying for the service of MSFT doing it for you. Thus, you really seem to be confusing things here. I'm not saying that others should be able to free-ride of your work. I'm saying that others should be able to do the work themselves, should they find that a better option. In fact, i'd say that one of the biggest problems in todays developer community (open source aside) is the limited ability to monetize on ones code. Theres really no need for people to continuously re-invent the wheel - which is what we currently do. However, there certainly shouldn't be a law preventing it either.

p.s.

i apologize if i came across as harsh. That was not my intent.

 

[oliversl]

Its an algorithm patent, too bad ...

 

[*LTD*]

Why would it quadruple? Aren't you the guy who always says that people don't pay attention to these things?

No, but when Fritz wants an iPhone and he's told he can't have one, there might be hell to pay.

Moto got an injunction in Germany against sales of the most popular phone on the planet (for which Apple can barely meet demand), over an old 3G worldwide wireless FRAND-related patent that was collecting dust in a closet.

And people think THIS is payback??

Motorola, a **** company with bad products, horrendous product support, horrendous customer service, who almost had to go dark a couple of years ago, and who became little more than buyout bait a couple of years later, has not won anything here, other than a few dollars. Does this 'win" help magically cause the Xoom to be redesigned?

All that this will result in is a disservice to consumers, who will seek to get Apple gear from whatever other sources. Moto has neither the product quality, nor the support, nor the mindshare, nor the cachet to do anything about it.

And here one would think that Moto was granted an injunction on the relative strength of their products' design or something. Instead, they played a lame FRAND 3G wireless tech card like that other lame dinosaur Nokia. Because that's really all that these old, crumbling organizations have left. Any old-ass mobile company well past its sell-by date can pull out an old wireless tech patent and wave it in the air. But what does it mean exactly? Nothing.

And besides, it could all come to that: nothing. Motorola now can claim its right to stop the sales, but only after paying a "security deposit" of 100m€. It is not currently in place yet, and it's unsure if this might even happen, since Apple announced legal steps they will be taking against this ban (again).

Apple has product strength and commands vast consumer attention and desire, worldwide.

Motorola has an old patent, a dwindling bank account, and a suite of products that probably make even a no-name, low-budget Android OEM look innovative.

 

[AidenShaw]

No, but when Fritz wants an iPhone and he's told he can't have one, there might be hell to pay.

Moto got an injunction in Germany against sales of the most popular phone on the planet (for which Apple can barely meet demand), over an old 3G worldwide wireless FRAND-related patent that was collecting dust in a closet.

And people think THIS is payback??

Motorola, a **** company with bad products, horrendous product support, horrendous customer service, who almost had to go dark a couple of years ago, and who became little more than buyout bait a couple of years later, has not won anything here, other than a few dollars. Does this 'win" help magically cause the Xoom to be redesigned?

All that this will result in is a disservice to consumers, who will seek to get Apple gear from whatever other sources. Moto has neither the product quality, nor the support, nor the mindshare, nor the cachet to do anything about it.

And here one would think that Moto was granted an injunction on the relative strength of their products' design or something. Instead, they played a lame FRAND 3G wireless tech card like that other lame dinosaur Nokia. Because that's really all that these old, crumbling organizations have left. Any old-ass mobile company well past its sell-by date can pull out an old wireless tech patent and wave it in the air. But what does it mean exactly? Nothing.

And besides, it could all come to that: nothing. Motorola now can claim its right to stop the sales, but only after paying a "security deposit" of 100m€. It is not currently in place yet, and it's unsure if this might even happen, since Apple announced legal steps they will be taking against this ban (again).

Apple has product strength and commands vast consumer attention and desire, worldwide.

Motorola has an old patent, a dwindling bank account, and a suite of products that probably make even a no-name, low-budget Android OEM look innovative.

So, in other words, Apple should be free to steal anyone's IP without paying reasonable royalties - but if any other company so much as puts a rectangular device in a rectangular cardboard box Apple should be able to nail them for "trade dress" infringement.

You probably don't even realize how inconsistent your statements have become.

 

[AppleScruff1]

So, in other words, Apple should be free to steal anyone's IP without paying reasonable royalties - but if any other company so much as puts a rectangular device in a rectangular cardboard box Apple should be able to nail them for "trade dress" infringement.

You probably don't even realize how inconsistent your statements have become.

Of course he realizes it. He's just playing the opposite game that the haters are. He pretends that he is the ultimate Apple customer just to get reaction here.

 

[AidenShaw]

Of course he realizes it. He's just playing the opposite game that the haters are. He pretends that he is the ultimate Apple customer just to get reaction here.

OK - I sometimes forget that he wears his downvotes as badges of honor - since he "knows" who the down-voters are!

 

[JackMohack]

FRAND Issue

This is a FRAND issue but it only applies if Apple accepted the non-discriminatory terms that Moto offered, which they did not, they wanted special terms. That is what the ND stands for in FRAND, Non-Discriminatory. Since they didn't accept non-discriminatory terms Moto is able to sue over this patent. Moto first offered this in 2007 and then again in 2010.

 

[AidenShaw]

This is a FRAND issue but it only applies if Apple accepted the non-discriminatory terms that Moto offered, which they Apple did not, they Apple wanted special terms. That is what the ND stands for in FRAND, Non-Discriminatory. Since they Apple didn't accept non-discriminatory terms Moto is able to sue over this patent. Moto first offered this in 2007 and then again in 2010.

Edited to clarify pronoun usage.... Not wanting to play the role of grammar Nazi - but if "they" is "Apple" the quote is completely different from if "they" is "Moto".

 

[iBug2]

So, in other words, Apple should be free to steal anyone's IP without paying reasonable royalties - but if any other company so much as puts a rectangular device in a rectangular cardboard box Apple should be able to nail them for "trade dress" infringement.

You probably don't even realize how inconsistent your statements have become.

I don't really get how you could deduce that from his post. He's simply saying that it's really "lame" to play an old patent card just to get back at Apple.

He's not implying anywhere that Apple should be able to infringe freely on other peoples IP.

So there's no inconsistency anywhere. It's just an opinion biased towards Apple.

 

[JackMohack]

Edited to clarify pronoun usage.... Not wanting to play the role of grammar Nazi - but if "they" is "Apple" the quote is completely different from if "they" is "Moto".

No offence taken, I completely understand, and thank you. It's just me thinking people will know what is in my head when I post.

 

[AidenShaw]

I don't really get how you could deduce that from his post. He's simply saying that it's really "lame" to play an old patent card just to get back at Apple.

If a patent is valid, it makes no difference when it was granted.

He's not implying anywhere that Apple should be able to infringe freely on other peoples IP.

If you assume that Moto has a valid patent, that other phone manufacturers are paying FRAND royalities for - that's exactly what he is implying.

And if that assumption is incorrect - no court (outside of East Texas) would have granted the injunction.

Apple recently lost a similar case with Nokia, and had to pay hundreds of millions in "back royalties" for illegally using IP without paying FRAND royalities. (see http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/apple_settles_iphone_patent_lawsuit_with_nokia/)

 

[iBug2]

If a patent is valid, it makes no difference when it was granted.

And he's not saying it's invalid, he's saying it's lame to play that card.

If you assume that Moto has a valid patent, that other phone manufacturers are paying FRAND royalities for - that's exactly what he is implying.

Not really. You'd have to be biased in a different way than I am to deduce that from his words. All I've read is what Motorola is doing is lame, and it doesn't help them to improve their products and they are a bad company blah blah and they should be better handling their own products rather than banning good stuff Apple does. So it's a judgement on Moto's policy which is not related to whether or not Apple should be infringement immune in general.

 

[JackMohack]

And he's not saying it's invalid, he's saying it's lame to play that card.




Not really. You'd have to be biased in a different way than I am to deduce that from his words. All I've read is what Motorola is doing is lame, and it doesn't help them to improve their products and they are a bad company blah blah and they should be better handling their own products rather than banning good stuff Apple does. So it's a judgement on Moto's policy which is not related to whether or not Apple should be infringement immune in general.

I guess you can try and ignore my post, but why?

 

[iBug2]

I guess you can try and ignore my post, but why?

What are you talking about?

 

[Dbrown]

I agree to an extent. But some Apple products are beyond reproach. No one can look at a Macbook Pro or Macbook Air and say that its junk. Solid construction, no creaking plastic or hinges, the BMW of laptops.

The best constructed laptop you can buy is a PC.

Anyways your analogy falls apart because the only difference between a macbook and PC laptop is the case.

 

[JackMohack]

I guess you can try and ignore my post, but why?

What are you talking about?

To quote myself: This is a FRAND issue but it only applies if Apple accepted the non-discriminatory terms that Moto offered, which they did not, they wanted special terms. That is what the ND stands for in FRAND, Non-Discriminatory. Since they didn't accept non-discriminatory terms Moto is able to sue over this patent. Moto first offered this in 2007 and then again in 2010.

PS: The ND in FRAND stands for Non-Discriminatory.

 

[AppleScruff1]

OK - I sometimes forget that he wears his downvotes as badges of honor - since he "knows" who the down-voters are!

Exactly! He posts the way he does to see how many down votes he gets. He must have inside info to know who votes his posts down. There must be at least a dozen or so users who do it on a regular basis. The whole post voting is entertaining in itself. Anyone who posts facts that don't favor Apple gets down voted. Anyone who is the least bit critical of Apple gets down voted.

 

[Renzatic]

Exactly! He posts the way he does to see how many down votes he gets. He must have inside info to know who votes his posts down. There must be at least a dozen or so users who do it on a regular basis. The whole post voting is entertaining in itself. Anyone who posts facts that don't favor Apple gets down voted. Anyone who is the least bit critical of Apple gets down voted.

Not true. Off the top of my head, you, KnightWRX, Divinox, Kdarling, and the others in the not exactly anti-apple, but critical thereof crowd almost always have at least 2 upvotes floating beneath your posts.

And LTD? He's about as rabid an Apple fan as they come, and he's almost always sporting at least -3 votes.

To me, it seems the posters with the more balanced opinions get the most votes. Whereas the more rabid fanboy posts tend to get downvoted.

 

[AppleScruff1]

Not true. Off the top of my head, you, KnightWRX, Divinox, Kdarling, and the others in the not exactly anti-apple, but critical thereof crowd almost always have at least 2 upvotes floating beneath your posts.

And LTD? He's about as rabid as an Apple fan as they come, and he's almost always sporting at least -3 votes.

To me, it seems the posters with the more balanced opinions get the most votes. Whereas the more rabid fanboy posts tend to get downvoted.

Some of it depends on the subject matter too. The news forum is more like an off topic section on most forums. One think I have noticed here is that there is very little nonsense in the Mac Pro threads. Those users are very open minded and rational. You don't see the fanboy stuff there. I think Apple makes some great products. I also think that other companies do to. I think Apple has lots of room for improvement to, regardless of their profits. I think there are other companies that do some things better than Apple. Those who worship everything that Apple does and make excuses for the dirty things Apple is guilty of are hypocrites, IMHO.

 

[Renzatic]

Yeah. The subject matter of the post does have a bit to do with it. Though after awhile, the same crowd of the same regulars talking from their usual standpoint does tend to make things normalize a bit the farther you get into a topic. They start out more sane. But after awhile, you only have a little bit of discrepancy between a topic like the Mac Pro thread, and one of the dozen lawsuit threads we've currently got going on.

The only time this rule seems to change is during the first couple of pages of a thread. This is about the only time you'll see an LTD post get end up with an upvote, and someone as usually calm and knowledgeable as Kdarling get downvoted to hell and back.

I guess the hardcore weirdos only have an attention span that lasts them 20 posts or so before they get bored.

 

[Eidorian]

Some of it depends on the subject matter too. The news forum is more like an off topic section on most forums. One think I have noticed here is that there is very little nonsense in the Mac Pro threads. Those users are very open minded and rational. You don't see the fanboy stuff there. I think Apple makes some great products. I also think that other companies do to. I think Apple has lots of room for improvement to, regardless of their profits. I think there are other companies that do some things better than Apple. Those who worship everything that Apple does and make excuses for the dirty things Apple is guilty of are hypocrites, IMHO.

Some people just are not interested in Mac Pro threads...

 

[TheMacBookPro]

And what you think that Samsung thinks any different. They are the same way, just like every other company out there looking to make money.

Well, for one, Samsung did not sue Apple until Apple did, and Samsung's patent is actually a patent not some ridiculous "you must produce a tablet that looks like this otherwise it's exactly the same as an iPad" argument:

Exactly! He posts the way he does to see how many down votes he gets. He must have inside info to know who votes his posts down. There must be at least a dozen or so users who do it on a regular basis. The whole post voting is entertaining in itself. Anyone who posts facts that don't favor Apple gets down voted. Anyone who is the least bit critical of Apple gets down voted.

Exactly what I was thinking! Most posts on here which are pro-Apple usually get (+150) but for some reason 'LTD's posts are mostly (-150), and he's about as pro-Apple as possible. I wonder if he realizes why.

 

[AlterEg0]

Apple has totally lost it.