Do you realize how stupid you sound when you say things like this? You're not a stupid guy -- you've posted insightful things in the past.
This was not one of those things.
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Motorola Xoom Tablet Sales: Approximately 100,000 Units So Far?
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Do you realize how stupid you sound when you say things like this? You're not a stupid guy -- you've posted insightful things in the past.
This was not one of those things.
I'm assuming the 100k were hardcore android fans and devs.
I can't see grandma buying a Xoom. Sorry to break it to the geeks of the world, there are quite a few more grandmas than us.
Mindshare is huge and 99% of consumers could care less if a tablet/phone has a removeable battery or a usb port, they do know about what they see on TV and what their friends are using. Xoom commercials are HORRIBLE.
I can't even talk tech to my co-workers that have android phones, because they don't know that they do. But even the least geeky iPhone users can easily talk about apps and features.
I'll never fully understand the OS battle, I guess we all like to argue and prove we are right?
I wonder if Ford owners go after Hummer or Mini Cooper owners?
Regardless of which is better, one is winning and will continue to do so.
I can't see grandma buying a Xoom. Sorry to break it to the geeks of the world, there are quite a few more grandmas than us.
Mindshare is huge and 99% of consumers could care less if a tablet/phone has a removeable battery or a usb port, they do know about what they see on TV and what their friends are using. Xoom commercials are HORRIBLE.
I can't even talk tech to my co-workers that have android phones, because they don't know that they do. But even the least geeky iPhone users can easily talk about apps and features.
I'll never fully understand the OS battle, I guess we all like to argue and prove we are right?
I wonder if Ford owners go after Hummer or Mini Cooper owners?
Regardless of which is better, one is winning and will continue to do so.
According to you. I personally don't recognize what iOS brings me that Android doesn't. The only reason I own an iPhone is that the selection of Android devices was poor on Rogers at the time I purchased my phone and the only reason I'd stick with an iPhone on upgrade is because I have some investment in iOS apps and did a lot of work with the SDK.
If Rogers had some of the better Android models when I purchased my 3GS, I'd probably have an Android right now as some of the Europeen devices at the time were much more appealing to me.
I use a device for what it does. E-mail, browsing, games, all the smartphone platforms do it to some extent. They are all programmable. My needs are met. Same for the iPad vs other tablets.
That's not added value when you're purchasing your 1st device. And it's not added value if you're looking to upgrade, it's called vendor lock-in
I just don't buy the hype and marketing which Apple excels at. I'd rather keep a cold attitude towards the product themselves.
That was the gist of my post indeed. I don't buy into hype.
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Is this your personal experience with both devices? or are you just regurgitating other people false talking points?
That's not added value when you're purchasing your 1st device. And it's not added value if you're looking to upgrade, it's called vendor lock-in
As I said, they may be handcuffs, but they don't chafe (yet).
For the first time buyer there is plenty of added value that just isn't important to you or the average l33t g33k. There are far more non-geeks than there are geeks.
Support: Apple's vast direct retail presence (in the US at least) means that grandma who buys her first iPad has somewhere to turn to for setup, training and support. The large installed base also means that first time users can get support and recommendations from others. Who is the non-geek supposed to turn to when they can't figure out what is wrong with their Xoom?
Accessories: I can get accessories specifically designed for the iPad almost anywhere. Cases, stands, etc... Where do I find those for my Xoom?
...
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Experience with iPad and Nook Color. But I appreciate the irony of you accusing me of that.
Yes.
What seems to be unique about Apple stuff is the amount of anti-Apple trolls that love to agitate the customer base on Apple-specific forums (like this one). Having owned a MINI Cooper, for example, I can tell you that Ford fans weren't camping the MINI forums all day to tell us how lame/overpriced/etc. our car of choice was. Not so with Apple stuff. Some people here have made a career out of telling us (on MacRumors) how bad Apple sucks, how evil Steve Jobs is, and how much better Microsoft/Android/Dell/etc. are. Go figure.
That's not added value when you're purchasing your 1st device. And it's not added value if you're looking to upgrade, it's called vendor lock-in
Google's greatest PR coup with Android has been to successfully snow the masses into believing they're not getting "locked into" something with their Android platform (cuz, you know, it's "free and open"). At least iOS users aren't gullible enough to believe that Apple is providing these products for humanitarian rather than business reasons.
If you boys need to use numbers, could you at least use accurate ones?
iPhone unit share of touchscreen phones: ~25%
iPad unit share of tablets: ~73% (Apple is probably higher if counting how many consumers actually have)
Mac computer unit share: ~8-10% of new purchases (laptops higher, couldn't find last story)
iOS unit share: god, who could calculate that? iPod has over 50% of that market, other iDevices above
There is an important distinction between the the two markets. That is that computer products, such as the iPad and Xoom, are subject to the rules of "network effects" - and automobiles aren't.
In very brief terms, the more that one type of digital device becomes the standard - the better it is for every user of that device. More, and better, applications get written for it. Its user interface becomes the de facto standard.
This isn't true with cars. If 99% of the other drivers on the road are driving Fords - I can still use my Mini Cooper. I can use the same gasoline they can, observe the same traffic rules, etc.
Yes.
What seems to be unique about Apple stuff is the amount of anti-Apple trolls that love to agitate the customer base on Apple-specific forums (like this one). Having owned a MINI Cooper, for example, I can tell you that Ford fans weren't camping the MINI forums all day to tell us how lame/overpriced/etc. our car of choice was. Not so with Apple stuff. Some people here have made a career out of telling us (on MacRumors) how bad Apple sucks, how evil Steve Jobs is, and how much better Microsoft/Android/Dell/etc. are. Go figure.
Google's greatest PR coup with Android has been to successfully snow the masses into believing they're not getting "locked into" something with their Android platform (cuz, you know, it's "free and open"). At least iOS users aren't gullible enough to believe that Apple is providing these products for humanitarian rather than business reasons.
Of course Mini owners might be on a ford forum. What if I owned a Mini S and a Ford F-150? What wrong with me going on a forum for Mini S and telling people I like the Mini S but the MINI Clubman sucks, I think a Ford Focus is better??
See what you and other apoligist dont get is that there can be people in the world who arent all goo goo gaga over everything apple creates or says.
The can be objectivity for all product, especially when your talking about manufactures that are in many different industries (MP3, Computer, Tablets, TV)
And about your second point, your are locked into iOS the more apps and extra accessories you buy. Its hard to switch because everything apple creates has its proprietary pieces.
See I can switch from Android to WP7 and keep my same charger, why? because its microusb.
I can switch from blackberry to android and keep my same SD card? why? becuase they both use microsdhc.
I can switch from a Samsung Galaxy S to a HTC EVO and keep my same apps but get a different hardware set, why? Because the both run android
With iOS... to change to another company or platform you have to change EVERYTHING. Accessories, software, syncing, (If you have old Itunes DRM). You are MORE locked into Apple, than you would be with any other platform.
Some people dont care, some do.
Yeah, I get a kick everytime I get called a troll on this forum and that I should "get out", all the while writing and reading in these threads using Apple devices. You know, it's like in the EULA for OS X or iOS there's a clause where you can't be critical of Apple or something and we're breaking it just by maybe thinking other platforms might offer something good.
Here, it's either you're a troll, or you must diss the competition and praise Apple at every turn. These people really need to lookup what the word troll actually means, because it doesn't mean what they think it means.
Why the artificial limit to touchscreen phones? You don't think that the iPhone competes with Blackberrys?
The 4% 50% numbers aren't pulled out of thin air.
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/10/30/iphone-4-of-market-50-of-profit/
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/01...-the-profit-out-of-the-mobile-phone-business/
There's a better chart that shows profit vs. manufacturer as a bar chart, but I haven't found it again.
Nothing wrong with criticism, I don't think every product Apple releases is perfect. Far from it. Two examples where I think they missed the boat and deserve a lashing and I give it to them are the Apple TV 1 and the Time Capsule.
But I do think that Apple's approach the the market, which has been extremely successful recently, is a valid one that just doesn't sit well with many geeks. These folks will resist it and complain no matter what.
Cut back on features to the bare essentials, but make it WORK. (Who really cares if the iPod plays Ogg Vorbis).
Limit customizability (most Apple products are available as several choices between Small, Medium and Large).
Provide some customizability with third party products like cases, etc...
Establish fair prices that are fixed and valid for the lifetime of the product yet always turn a healthy profit.
Make strategic supply agreements for key components (flash memory, displays, liquid metal?, ...)
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100k in 42 days = sucker born every minute.
42 days * 24 hours a day * 60 minutes per hour = 60,480 minutes
100,000 suckers / 60,480 minutes = 1.653 suckers per minute
Oops. My bad. 1.653 suckers born every minute.
42 days * 24 hours a day * 60 minutes per hour = 60,480 minutes
100,000 suckers / 60,480 minutes = 1.653 suckers per minute
Oops. My bad. 1.653 suckers born every minute.
4% is of ALL cellphones. 25% is of smartphones, which is what I really meant when I said touchscreen, so that was a poor choice of wording. Apple doesn't even compete for the majority of phones, so using that figure is pointless, most of the cheap phones produce very little profit. Might as well include home phones, too.
Note that the 3 smartphone-only players account for only 10% of the entire industry in that graphic, and it is quite old at this point. Besides, the whole point of that article is kinda silly, hence the crazy numbers used to prove a crazy point.
Note that the 3 smartphone-only players account for only 10% of the entire industry in that graphic, and it is quite old at this point. Besides, the whole point of that article is kinda silly, hence the crazy numbers used to prove a crazy point.
They then get wiped out by some stormtroopers... so maybe there's a lesson in that as well?
But that's exactly the point.
If Android ends up on the majority of phones, but they end up being low end phones that produce little profit per phone and those profits are shared by a whole raft of manufacturers: HTC, Moto, ... does it really matter to Apple that they make so many of them? That's not a market they (or their shareholders) want to be in.
This is why Apple is happy to have only ~8-10% of total US computer sales (sorry I don't have a link for this either, but believe it is about right, at least within a factor of two at best) but have the lions share of computers over $1000 (just google for "Apple computers over $1000" for a variety of links reporting 66-90% market share in this segment since ~late 2008).
FWIW your first link for 25% is for USA only. This is a global industry, so I think that is also a somewhat meaningless number. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics
Restricting the market down further just tends to make Apple's share of the profits larger.
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But that's exactly the point.
If Android ends up on the majority of phones, but they end up being low end phones that produce little profit per phone and those profits are shared by a whole raft of manufacturers: HTC, Moto, ... does it really matter to Apple that they make so many of them? That's not a market they (or their shareholders) want to be in.
This is why Apple is happy to have only ~8-10% of total US computer sales (sorry I don't have a link for this either, but believe it is about right, at least within a factor of two at best) but have the lions share of computers over $1000 (just google for "Apple computers over $1000" for a variety of links reporting 66-90% market share in this segment since ~late 2008).
FWIW your first link for 25% is for USA only. This is a global industry, so I think that is also a somewhat meaningless number. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics
Restricting the market down further just tends to make Apple's share of the profits larger.
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I have said this before and I will say it again. The Smartphone industry is fast approaching the way the computer industry looks. Their are some major differences but it still looks like it is becoming like the modern day computer industry. With google going for the thrown of absolute dominance that Microsoft holds over OSs. With apple sticking to a low part of the market.
Just like the Computer market the iPhone will not be competing with the cheap ass Acer quality smartphones. The Iphone will be competing against HTC's Evo, Motorola's Bionic and Samsung's Sidekick. Android due to its Price and the fact that soon you will be able to get it on every single carrier will not doubt be the supreme smartphone.
In the computer market today Apple holds their own against the premium brands and models, despite coming from behind and running a different/incompatible OS than the cheap ass Acers and the vast majority of computers out there and have even managed to "own" the >$1000 computer market in the US. So why would you expect this be any different?
Especially when they have such a headstart in tablets? I don't get it.
Again, I'm not saying Android won't be in tons of devices and make tons of money. Some of these devices will compete directly with iDevices, others won't. I already own an Android device myself (Nook eInk, that does not directly compete with an iDevice) and will probably pick up the successor to the Galaxy Tab running Ice Cream (Sandwich?) when that rolls out. ... Unless Apple rolls out something in a mid-scale form factor that I could use by then instead.
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That's not true. Macs have doubled their market share over the last 5 years.
Note the second graph here for market share growth in the US:
http://gigaom.com/apple/mac-market-share-surges-in-u-s/
And the article notes that the Mac sales are growing faster internationally.
Irrelevant to the argument at hand. We're not talking about Apple criticism, of which there is plenty on this forum. We're talking about the group of people who do nothing but trash Apple, its products and its customers on this forum, MacRumors.
You confuse legitimate debate with comments that exist only to antagonize or astroturf competitors' wares.
It's called trolling, and it's annoying.
I was convinced that Xoom was going to have great data plans that made people want to join it over others. Instead, the plans are still crap, imo.
That was a deal breaker for me
That was a deal breaker for me
Actually the bulk of the posts are from people who see no need to discredit the Xoom when the sales figures do that for them.
When you say 'the rest of us' who exactly do you mean?
The queue for the iPad2 stretches waaayy into the distance, whereas you and 'the rest' can pick up a Xoom anytime you like ...
and what is it, that this device is so much more capable of?
Can it take better pictures?
Possibly?
Does anyone really care?
Apparently not,
because being 'more capable' is really down to user experience, great design, and an exciting and vibrant app market, which all lead to customer satisfaction.
That's actually what 'the rest of us' are more interested in.
I Personally like a few things apple creates. I like there hardware from a pure superfical standpoint.
I like OSX, I like My Macbook Pro, I like my ipods and my apple TV.
I like the iPad design, but it HATE the software FOR a TABLET. I think iOS in its current state is good on phones and the touch. But for a tablet device I think they should of came up with a unique more "desktop" way of doing things on it.
This is why I like Honeycomb, even in its infancy. It VERY functional with some polish here and there(certainly not to Apple levels throughout.) I want(and I assume others) WANT a iPad type of device with some aspects of an actually desktop computing evironment. Like a file system, bluetooth transfers, flash, more robush email client, a few more SIMPLE MINIMALISTIC AND UNIVERSAL input options.
I cannot get that from Apple at the moment so I can get my fix from my Xoom. BUt as of right now I have both products(ipad 2 and xoom) and use both for their strengths. iOS is nice to look at, but after that wears off, I look for function. Xoom has more. Period.
The "desktop" IS dead. The way people compute on the "desktop" is wrong. File management, Windows management, Media management...wrong, wrong, wrong. Just because people were dealing with this crap for decades doesn't mean people like it. Look at the smartphones before the iPhone came out and you will know what I mean.
iOS for iPad needs to do more? Sure. iOS needs to be "more like the desktop"? Stupid. Don't believe me? Look at Lion.