MPAA ''Committed To Fair Use, Interoperability, DRM''

[EagerDragon]

The encryption key was changed and all software based players and hardware players must have a software update.

Two set of releated questions:
a) How do you patch the hardware? Do they come to my house and burn a new eprom?

b) What about previously released titles created prior to the patch? Do they stop working and how do you keep the old titles from being copied even after the patch is released? Are they planning to path the piece of plastic (DVD)?

 

[Highland]

Hmmm... That third item, by definition, eliminates any possibility of the first two.

I wonder if their next press release will be a call for a peaceful nuclear war.

Couldn't agree more. It's just not technically possible.

And you know what? I don't care about HD DVD or Blu-ray if it means using draconian DRM. I'm sure I'll be fine sticking to DVDs.

And for anyone arguing for DRM, try this:
1. Pick any movie that's available to you to buy in your region.
2. Google the movie name with "torrent" after it.

DRM doesn't stop piracy. The only thing it does it hurt paying customers (oh, and up the system requirements for Vista).

 

[princealfie]

Are you trying to tell me that, if DRM were completely removed from all movies, pirating would not increase?


I think the MPAA is trying to reach a compromise that helps consumers without hurting sales. Why is this s bad thing? ...Why do you need your ripped movies completely DRM free?

That's because we have integrity and realize that DRM is a form of fascism by the corporations and thus we are willing to stand up against the big guy. We don't need DRM because it's the principle of the dictators trying to impose a meaningless standard that houses no value within the files we are trying to playback.

 

[Stella]

Two set of releated questions:
a) How do you patch the hardware? Do they come to my house and burn a new eprom?

- Plug it into internet ( obviously the device has to have support )
- contact the manufacturer

Existing DVD players can have their firmware upgraded by inserting a CD with the patch on - the device recongises the file name and updates it self.

b) What about previously released titles created prior to the patch? Do they stop working and how do you keep the old titles from being copied even after the patch is released? Are they planning to path the piece of plastic (DVD)?

- if the new key doesn't work, try the previous keys
--

Anyway, you'd still get these problems on multiple DRM standards for digital movie downloads but of course its easier to update your computer, iPod et al than it is to update a NextGen dvd player. Yes, updating a next Gen dvd player box does have issues.

 

[Highland]

Are you trying to tell me that, if DRM were completely removed from all movies, pirating would not increase?

I know music isn't the same, but it seems like all the reliable research suggests sales will INCREASE if there's no DRM.

At the very least, DRM is useless. At the worst, it's a punch in the face to loyal customers.

 

[JoeG4]

(*#@%&

the MPAA.


You want to rip DVDs?

http://handbrake.m0k.org/

No DRM. End of ***** story.

 

[EagerDragon]

Two set of releated questions:
a) How do you patch the hardware? Do they come to my house and burn a new eprom?

- Plug it into internet ( obviously the device has to have support )
- contact the manufacturer

Existing DVD players can have their firmware upgraded by inserting a CD with the patch on - the device recongises the file name and updates it self.


- if the new key doesn't work, try the previous keys
--

Anyway, you'd still get these problems on multiple DRM standards for digital movie downloads but of course its easier to update your computer, iPod et al than it is to update a NextGen dvd player. Yes, updating a next Gen dvd player box does have issues.

Hi Stella, I understand that for a computer, but what about a hardware DVD player. It does not sound practical. Also what is the motivation for the customer to go thru the trouble of downloading a patch and applying it to every dedicated DVD player?

Also the new patch may break old titles and that would piss the consumer. The avarage consumer would not know how to do all of that including going back to the old key, to me is not practical. They (MPAA) have to comeup with something and live with it.

 

[GFLPraxis]

Has movie pirating reached the same level as music pirating? No, so something is obviously working.

Only because of bandwidth issues. It takes a lot more peers to transfer a movie in a reasonable length of time than an MP3.

 

[EagerDragon]

Only because of bandwidth issues. It takes a lot more peers to transfer a movie in a reasonable length of time than an MP3.

based on some articles I seen, some of the big time pirating is occuring before the movie hits the theaters, never mind waiting to come out on DVD. Apparently this is going on big time in Asia, where you can buy DVDs from street vendors for next to nothing on or about the time the movie is being played in theaters.

So like with music, I am not sure that DRM buys them much. I am willing to live with DRM if the model is close to fairplay with the Mac/iPod. If too restricted, most people will just rip or buy from blackmarket or P2P.

 

[EricNau]

"Give someone an inch and they'll take a mile."

It seems everyone should be thrilled with the new plan, but all some of you can do is complain. Sure, it would be great if people could be trusted and movies could be shipped DRM free but this isn't a perfect world. Instead, the MPAA has come up with a good compromise that helps both sides. Under this new plan, you would be able to make legitimate copies of your DVDs and play them on virtually any device, while the MPAA can still utilize DRM to fight piracy. ...or would you rather keep the current system and purchase two copies of each movie (one for your DVD player & one for your iPod)?

If people would just learn to compromise this world would be a better place.

 

[matticus008]

We don't need DRM because it's the principle of the dictators trying to impose a meaningless standard that houses no value within the files we are trying to playback.

The content doesn't belong to you. Someone else created them and retains ownership of that content. It is being shared with you by contractual means, secured by the government on your behalf so that you don't have to negotiate your own license. Without getting into a philosophical argument of whether or not that should be the case, the fact of the matter is that you don't own the content you're trying to play back. You own the disc and a set of rights to use that content. Those rights are more complicated than most lay people can understand, because they lack perspective. No single statute or online summary accurately depicts the situation in its entirety. Yes, you have fair use rights; simultaneously, the owners have distribution rights, which do include platform access.

There is a difference between wanting something to play on your intended device and wanting to have complete and total control of a multimillion dollar film for $20. There currently are some problems with the balance, but "total consumer ownership" is not the answer and is not going to happen.

Unlike a pure property transfer, your software purchase involves a particular license (which accounts for the bulk of the purchase price). Without that license, all you're buying is a sliver of plastic in a little box, worth about a dollar.

When DVD drives started appearing for computers the MPAA made the requirements for obtaining the key to write a DVD player application so onerous that no application with a GNU license could comply. It wasn’t until the key was cracked that you could play a commercial DVD on a Linux box. Given that, I think it is actually currently illegal to even play a DVD on a Linux box. If you’re going to exclude the open source community you can’t really claim to be interoperable.

"The open source community" (by which you actually mean the most militant and extremist portions which will not accept proprietary software under any conditions) has chosen to exclude itself. There is no reason why a software publisher could not license the keys and make a player for Linux (Flash and an assortment of other technologies, along with graphics card drivers are all proprietary software released at no cost to the Linux community).

Some segments refuse to use any closed-source content at all (which automatically excludes ANY encrypted content), and that's their choice. But it's a choice with consequences, and other businesses are not responsible for that isolation.

 

[Mr. Amiga500]

I desperately want the ability to rip movies from DVD to store on HD similar to music in iTunes. I've been wanting that for years. It'd be great to have all your movies/TV episodes in a list and you just select the one you want and it starts playing instantly - WITHOUT ALL THE STUPID FBI WARNINGS! It is extremely annoying to see American FBI warnings (FBI has no jurisdiction outside US) and see them every single time I put a disc in - and most times you can't skip it.

My (expensive) DVD player "crashes" all the time when there's a hair or piece of dust on a DVD. It actually crashes and I have to unplug it because it won't turn off and the screen is all corrupted. If you can rip DVDs, you know there's no chance of a scratch, hair or dust to suddenly cause screwups.

An added bonus would be if there is a standardized menu system for all movies within the "iMovies" software - so you don't have to see all those badly designed and annoying custom menus (that have cut-scenes you can't skip!). Also, you should be able to skip to any part of the movie quickly, similar to the music "time slider" (or whatever you call it) on iPod.

I actually thought that this is what the AppleTV would do... before it came out as the lame streaming thing that it is.

 

[SiliconAddict]

In other news surgeons have successfully grafted a jet engine and wings onto a pig. Trial flights are expected any day.

Seriously though, can you say lip service? The MPAA's idea about fair use would simply be a means of putting pay per view DRM on media. So you have two options. Leave it on the disk or rip it and pay for each time you view the content. Its all about profit and NOT in any way shape or form about fair use. This is a marketing stunt because there is speculation that most music labels will be going DRMless in the next 6 months. the spotlight will immediately turn to the MPAA and the inevitable question will be asked. This is nothing more then a preemptive strike trying to make them look like the good guys. I call bull pellets.

 

[SiliconAddict]

I desperately want the ability to rip movies from DVD to store on HD similar to music in iTunes. I've been wanting that for years. It'd be great to have all your movies/TV episodes in a list and you just select the one you want and it starts playing instantly - WITHOUT ALL THE STUPID FBI WARNINGS! It is extremely annoying to see American FBI warnings (FBI has no jurisdiction outside US) and see them every single time I put a disc in - and most times you can't skip it.

My (expensive) DVD player "crashes" all the time when there's a hair or piece of dust on a DVD. It actually crashes and I have to unplug it because it won't turn off and the screen is all corrupted. If you can rip DVDs, you know there's no chance of a scratch, hair or dust to suddenly cause screwups.

An added bonus would be if there is a standardized menu system for all movies within the "iMovies" software - so you don't have to see all those badly designed and annoying custom menus (that have cut-scenes you can't skip!). Also, you should be able to skip to any part of the movie quickly, similar to the music "time slider" (or whatever you call it) on iPod.

I actually thought that this is what the AppleTV would do... before it came out as the lame streaming thing that it is.

Umm I hate to break this to you but you can now as long as you aren't a boy scount about "OMG I'm violating the DMCA! I'm going to burn in heck!!!! ARRRRRRGGGHHHH!!!"
As for what software you would use....one word... Handbrake I've got about 2 dozen of my 580 movies ripped onto my MBP. Sometime this summer I will be buying one of those new TB drives that just came out and ripping all of them.

 

[Mr. Amiga500]

Umm I hate to break this to you but you can now as long as you aren't a boy scount about "OMG I'm violating the DMCA! I'm going to burn in heck!!!! ARRRRRRGGGHHHH!!!"
As for what software you would use....one word... Handbrake I've got about 2 dozen of my 580 movies ripped onto my MBP. Sometime this summer I will be buying one of those new TB drives that just came out and ripping all of them.

Ah ha! Nice. Thanks for letting me know. (why did you hate to break it to me?) I'll check it out when I buy a Mac... and a few monster harddrives.

No, I'm not a "boy scount"... whatever that is. And I'm quite happy to violate the DMCA. I'd only rip the discs I own. If any movie company ever complained to me about that, then I'd start ripping movies I don't own... just to get revenge for their stupidity.

 

[matticus008]

If any movie company ever complained to me about that, then I'd start ripping movies I don't own... just to get revenge for their stupidity.

If any movie company ever had a bone to pick with you, pirating would be the only way you could get movies, because you certainly couldn't afford them.

I'm all for rejecting the DMCA on principle, and even fully supportive of people who choose to violate it--with one caveat. If you break the law, you accept the consequences. Obviously the DMCA doesn't apply to you in Canada (yet), but the sentiment is the same with whatever civil and/or criminal liabilities you'd have depending on your country of residence.

I admit that I speed every day of my life, but I certainly would never lie about it if I got caught. I'd apologize and be courteous and admit that I wasn't watching my speed. If I got a ticket though, I'd pay it. Same goes here. If you're willing to accept the possible consequence of thousands of dollars in fines and tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees, have at it.

Meanwhile, a number of us are working to get the law fixed. Some of the DMCA provisions have been pared back already, and other revisions lie in the future. Take the thirty minutes to write a thoughtful and logical letter to your representative(s). You can copy it to all of them. I assure you that they are read by staffers and they do come into play in meetings behind closed doors and with attorneys. Some letters in particular are archived in bill legislative histories, which are used daily by lawyers in practice and kept for decades in storage.

 

[goosnarrggh]

Hi Stella, I understand that for a computer, but what about a hardware DVD player. It does not sound practical. Also what is the motivation for the customer to go thru the trouble of downloading a patch and applying it to every dedicated DVD player?

Also the new patch may break old titles and that would piss the consumer. The avarage consumer would not know how to do all of that including going back to the old key, to me is not practical. They (MPAA) have to comeup with something and live with it.

You've actually raised an interesting point.
In order for a HDDVD or BluRay player to be licensed to play back encrypted content in the first place, it is required to pass on an equivalent strength of content protection on all of its digital high definition outputs. Each model of player (hardware and software) is assigned a unique key with which the HD content can be decrypted, after demonstrating the measures they've taken to protect the downstream integrity of the content protection.

There is actually a supply of billions of possible keys, any of which could potentially be used to decrypt any HDDVD or BluRay content. Keys become invalid proactively by means of a blacklist distributed with every title.

If it is ever discovered that any player's content protection has been cracked, then it is possible to add that player's key to the blacklist of all future titles. It would be impossible to play back any newer discs on any device whose content protection key is included on that disc's blacklist.

Older discs would continue to function, but newer discs simply wouldn't -- until such a time as the manufacturer is able to release a patch including a newly assigned key. Note that by assigning a new key, you are NOT breaking compatibility with any older titles -- since that replacement key wouldn't have yet been added to any existing title's blacklist.

The patch may be achieved by means of a product recall. Or maybe the manufacturer could mail out a free CD containing the patch to every customer who actually sent in their registration card. Or maybe when the player discovers that its key has been blacklisted, it could display a message on the screen with instructions to the customer on how to obtain service.

 

[shamino]

Heaps o' comments...

If I'm going to go to jail for ripping my own DVDs, I should probably just pirate them, since I'm going to jail anyway, right?

If all you do with the rips is use them personally, nobody is going to send you to jail. Not because it's legal (it isn't), but because law enforcement has better things to do than investigate and prosecute cases where there are no real damages.

Quite frankly, they can't do anything to make it worse than it already is.

They could make it all pay-per-view/subscription. DivX tried to do that with movies. It was a colossal failure. This should've been the wake up call that the public isn't going to buy every hairbrained scheme that gets invented, but it clearly wasn't.

Quite differently, DRM has worked very well for the movie industry

Not really. Sure, it keeps some casual home users from giving copies to friends, but it does nothing to stop the distribution of pirated DVDs and internet file sharing. In some cases, because the DRM was broken years ago (and anybody who cares can easily download CSS-removing softwre), and in some cases, because the content was pirated without any DVD at all (masters stolen from studio servers, camcorders in theaters, etc.)

Keep in mind, the movie industry is digitally closed - every digital movie shipped today is shipped with DRM, making piracy quite difficult for the average consumer.

Not difficult at all. Software to do this is one Google search away. Some people here have actually posted links to DVD-copying applications. DRM does nothing but inconvenience honest customers.

Are you trying to tell me that, if DRM were completely removed from all movies, pirating would not increase?

I don't think it would increase by any significant amount. Especially if they keep up with prosecuting those who redistribute these copied discs.

I'm all for DRM, and other anti-piracy mechanisms such as activation, when it really is fair and does not impede on my personal usage.

When the content producer uses it to decide what brand/model player you can use, then it's impeding on your personal usage.

DRM doesn't have to restrict interoperability - its just like that for digital music. There can be a standard created.

Not if you want it to work. If dozens of players all have the DRM-removing software, then there will be no way to keep the DRM from being broken. DRM, by its nature, requires closely guarded secrets. When those secrets are known (and distributing them worldwide, with or without NDA contracts) the DRM will collapse soon afterwards.

HDVD / BlueRay has standard DRM. All players must support that DRM otherwise they don't play. A few weeks ago a patch was made to the encryption after it was cracked. The encryption key was changed and all software based players and hardware players must have a software update.

So if my player isn't attached to the internet, it will stop playing new content? Sounds like a great plan to force consumers to repeatedly buy new players before the old ones break. Sounds like a lousy attempt at accomplishing anything else.

Seriously though, can you say lip service? The MPAA's idea about fair use would simply be a means of putting pay per view DRM on media.

You mean like DivX?

 

[shamino]

... Each model of player (hardware and software) is assigned a unique key with which that HD content is encrypted before being passed on.

There is actually a supply of billions of possible keys, any of which could potentially be used to decrypt any HDDVD or BluRay content. Keys become invalid proactively by means of a blacklist distributed with every title.

If it is ever discovered that any player's content protection has been cracked, then it is possible to add that player's key to the blacklist of all future titles.

They tried this scheme with DVD. When the DeCSS program came out that cracked ALL of the keys, that was the end of that.

I don't think any of his HD-DRM stuff will work any better.

 

[slughead]

If all you do with the rips is use them personally, nobody is going to send you to jail. Not because it's legal (it isn't), but because law enforcement has better things to do than investigate and prosecute cases where there are no real damages.

According to the article (and what I've read elsewhere), it IS a crime to break encryption on DVDs, even those you own.

That's why they can't sell DVD ripping software.

The article is talking about the MPAA eventually allowing people to do this, but only in a certain way that allows for DRM on the resulting file. I, for one, will not play ball.

I'm not worried about getting busted for ripping my own personal DVD collection (you're right, law enforcement wont bother), but that doesn't mean I'm not pissed that the DMCA exists and makes something like this a crime.

 

[BPS, Inc.]

Could it be that they are losing court cases? Kaleidescape is a company that sells a dvd storage system.

MOUNTAIN VIEW, CA – March 29, 2007 — Kaleidescape Inc. is pleased to announce that today, after a seven-day trial, Judge Leslie C. Nichols of the Santa Clara Superior Court ruled that Kaleidescape is in full compliance with the DVD Copy Control Association's license to the Content Scramble System, the method used to encrypt video and audio data on DVDs. As part of his statement of decision, Judge Nichols noted Kaleidescape’s good faith in its efforts to ensure that its products were fully compliant.

"Kaleidescape has been operating in the shadow of the DVD CCA's allegations for over three years. We are gratified that after hearing all of the evidence, the Judge has completely vindicated our position," said Michael Malcolm, founder, chairman and CEO of Kaleidescape.

http://www.kaleidescape.com/company/pr/PR-20070329-DVDCCA.html

 

[ATG]

Interoperable DRM? Now how does that work?

 

[shamino]

According to the article (and what I've read elsewhere), it IS a crime to break encryption on DVDs, even those you own.

I think I said that. Maybe next time I'll put it in 50-point blinking text so it will get noticed.

I'm not worried about getting busted for ripping my own personal DVD collection (you're right, law enforcement wont bother), but that doesn't mean I'm not pissed that the DMCA exists and makes something like this a crime.

Funny, you sounded concerned when you wrote:

If I'm going to go to jail for ripping my own DVDs, I should probably just pirate them, since I'm going to jail anyway, right?

I was just pointing out that you're not going to jail anyway, unless you do something really stupid (like sell the copies or confess to law enforcement).

 

[SiliconAddict]

You mean like DivX?

Like DivX sans the hardware. Plus DivX was never really ever backed by any of the major studios other then Disney/Buena Vista. It was Circuit City's brain child that never took off because at the time it was seen as a competitor against DVD itself.

 

[Maccus Aurelius]

Well I am certainly glad I had a copy of a DVD file for a disc that broke a few days ago (War of the Worlds). I simply put the uncompressed file in Toast Titanium, and voila, instant replacement. Oh MactheRipper, how I love thee.