MS Windows "Longhorn" screenshots

[mainstreetmark]

http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/longhorn_4015.asp

I appologize if this is a repost. I admit to not doing a search to see if this had been brought up before.

But, to those of you for whom this is new, this is so far the best description yet of Longhorn, complete with a ton of screenshots.

Amazingly, despite the presence of a 'Sidebar', there doesn't seem to be much different.

Among the things that are different are things called Libraries (apparently, a smart-folder that holds, for example, all the jpgs on your drive), and being able to 'Filter' each explorer window (ala Search, in osx).

Last release date I heard was sometime in 2005. What kind of cat will Apple have in 2005? Sabertooth?

 

[XnavxeMiyyep]

Let's see, it will have: Useless graphic features, an annoying sidebar that takes up 1/6 the screen, and the folders look like $h!+ http://www.winsupersite.com/images/reviews/4015_068.png when enlarged to the size of the default icon on the OS X desktop.

 

[mainstreetmark]

Originally posted by XnavxeMiyyep
Let's see, it will have: Useless graphic features, an annoying sidebar that takes up 1/6 the screen, and the folders look like $h!+ http://www.winsupersite.com/images/reviews/4015_068.png when enlarged to the size of the default icon on the OS X desktop.

Well, I'm sure they haven't bothered to make 128x128 icons for everything yet, and are just using what they got. That's really more of a finishing touch.

Dig me, I'm defending them.

 

[Tiauguinho]

Originally posted by mainstreetmark
Well, I'm sure they haven't bothered to make 128x128 icons for everything yet, and are just using what they got. That's really more of a finishing touch.

Dig me, I'm defending them.

FLAME WAR!!!

Joking man, but seriously, Microsoft may try... but they wont get to the toes of Apple in terms of design.

 

[Powerbook G5]

I have yet to be imprssed by Longhorn. It looks pretty Windows/XP too me with a few graphical "enhancements" that seem pointless. I've seen so many spelling errors, grammar errors, and such in the various screen shots of the OS, too. It seems like there isn't much serious effort to make Longhorn a truly innovative OS. It'd be like Apple releasing OS X, but only as a "modern" OS 9...maybe it'd have a few added things, but that wouldn't have been too innovated like what they did when they made the jump. We got an entirely new an amazing OS. You'd think Windows users would be a little pissed if they didn't get the same treatment. After all these years, Windows has been basically the same general beast since Windows 95...same look, same design, just with more bloat and more features.

 

[themadchemist]

icons that smoothly scale to 128x128! what innovation!

flipping folders and whacky windows, oh my! A desktop with resource-hogging visual effects that wastes my precious hardware on rebuilding itself over and over and over again!

This is truly splendor! And majesty! And the computing nirvana that all have thus far sought.

edit: to be fair, it seems that this flaunting of effects is more or less a way for microsoft to demonstrate an environment more graphically-capable not just for the OS but for all applications. to be more fair, it does seem that the biggest TECHNICAL advancement is going to be better drivers, which doesn't seem too impressive to me.

 

[mainstreetmark]

That's what I've been complaining about all these years too! XP, despite the improved start menu, is just like win 95, 98, NT, ME, etc..etc.. For 8 years now, whenever you're copying a large amount of files, and one file screws up, you're not given the chance to skip the one bad file and continue.

Perhaps, in 2005, 4 years after XP is released, and the Win community gets a load of it, Apple should clearly have the world's best OS, and maybe the world's fastest computers, and maybe - just maybe - the old "You can't get any software for the Mac" argument will go the hell away.

 

[themadchemist]

Originally posted by mainstreetmark
That's what I've been complaining about all these years too! XP, despite the improved start menu, is just like win 95, 98, NT, ME, etc..etc.. For 8 years now, whenever you're copying a large amount of files, and one file screws up, you're not given the chance to skip the one bad file and continue.

Perhaps, in 2005, 4 years after XP is released, and the Win community gets a load of it, Apple should clearly have the world's best OS, and maybe the world's fastest computers, and maybe - just maybe - the old "You can't get any software for the Mac" argument will go the hell away.

-Apple already DOES clearly have the best OS.
-Apple is making its way toward having the fastest computers. But in that price range, they are not the fastest computers yet.
-and the old "you can't get any software for the Mac" argument has already gone the hell away, except for a few select games.

The real problem is to convince the ol' Windows-heads of the truth, because contrary to popular belief, the die-hard windows users are as adamant if not more adamant than Mac enthusiasts. But Apple's greatest improvement would be to have an ad campaign that started turning the heads of those who know nothing about computers and go for windows. A price that fit such people would also help.

 

[Powerbook G5]

So in two years Windows *might* have some of the stuff that has been normal for Apple users...isn't this always the case? heh...the article talks about 128x128 icons, being able to scale them higher, improved graphics stability, etc as if it's never been done or thought of before, but yet OS X has had them for going on 4 years now...I also love the "and explore.exe still crashes a lot" I guess they are giving us all the hint that it's still Windows

 

[MorganX]

Originally posted by XnavxeMiyyep
http://www.winsupersite.com/images/reviews/4015_068.png[/url] when enlarged to the size of the default icon on the OS X desktop.

This is a joke right?

 

[edesignuk]

Fine, it may not be looking all that great (understatement!), but, it is important to remember that this is still a fairly early alpha build, it's not even beta yet.

 

[Powerbook G5]

You must also understand, also, though, that this is a *Microsoft* product...weren't XP and 2k3 supposed to be "crash-proof" and virtually "the most secure OS builds ever"...

 

[zim]

"Longhorn will feature a task-based (or "iterative") interface that goes far beyond the task-based interface found today in Windows XP. Microsoft has been working to move beyond the dated desktop metaphor still used by Mac OS X and Linux; I explain some of Microsoft's early work on task-based interfaces in my old Activity Centers preview. This new user interface is code-named "Aero" and is based on a new .NET-based API called "Avalon.""

http://www.winsupersite.com/faq/longhorn.asp

HUH? So is he saying that they are trying to not copy the Mac OS anymore? Seems to be what he is saying, although looing at the screen images and reading the F&Q does not lead me to think that this is anything groundbreaking... I have read rumors here of such possibilites on the Mac OS.

One more pull...
"Longhorn will include integrated recordable DVD capabilities and will work with every type of recordable DVD format. Digital media enthusiasts will be able to copy video from a digital camcorder directly to recordable DVD, bypassing the system's hard drive entirely, if desired."

That is assuming that the hardware manufactures support it and assuming that your current computer has a DVD player, I think he forgot about that.

I thought that I was under the impression that Longhorn required all ms apps to be re tooled.. can someone correct me on that one.

 

[themadchemist]

He points out that these Activity Centers "enumerate the user’s options for doing something other than the main task."

I'm going to take this to mean that when you ask to do one thing, it will also suggest to you that there might be a related way to do a few other things, which could be useful for beginners to discover, etc.

However, it shows that Microsoft can't let go of its OS trying to second guess everything you do.

When you go to Shut Down, maybe you just mean Shut Down. No, you don't want to restart, no, not standby either, and definitely don't want to make sugarfree iced tea.

Separate menu options for separate activities. Don't tell me what I want to do. Don't come up with an annoying paper clip or professor or anything else unless I ask you to.

In this sense, Mac OS is beautiful because it is non-invasive. Unfortunately, if Mac OS is non-invasive, then Windows is like a double-bypass.

 

[rueyeet]

From looking at the page and reading through the features of Longhorn, it actually does seem different from the previous Windows versions. But I'm not sure it's in good ways.

One of the things that makes me most nervous (because as long as I keep this job, this'll probably end up on my desktop someday) is that Microsoft has dropped even the pretense of the browser as a separate app, and completely integrated it with the desktop. For even more fun, some of the code is now based on the .NET framework (though the page notes that those parts seem to crash often).

Also, they're going even farther to separate computer concepts from computer use by grouping together similar types of files in these "Libraries", so that the user needn't have any concept of physical drives or directories, or any understanding of where their files are actually located. They can just open their "Music Library" and see all their music files, no matter where those files are actually saved.

I see two things wrong with that: First, a user who doesn't understand the concept of where their files go is a user who will consistently misplace their files, no matter what you call the places they can put them. Secondly, given Microsoft's tendency to assume it knows more about what you're attempting to accomplish with your computer than you do, I wouldn't be surprised if the system itself misfiled or obscured something in the attempt to be "helpful".

And then there's that stupid Sidebar thing. Why would you have that collection of graphical junk hanging out on the side of your screen, taking up real estate? And what does half of it actually do that you shouldn't be able to call up in seconds from the Start menu, or put a shortcut to on your desktop? Some of the Tiles you can put in the Sidebar are just entirely useless--Slide Show? User (which just shows the user picture)?

A lot of the technical innovation of Longhorn seems to be more fancy graphics, a new, searchable file system (WinFS), and integrated .NET. Two of those Apple's already got, and the other they'll hopefully never have. But unfortunately the changes to the Windows user interface are innovative mostly as new ways to further obscure the system from the user in the name of making it yet more idiot-proof and Microsoft-controllable. My Mac feels so transparent and configurable by comparison!

I'm glad the development is going slowly. Hopefully it'll be YEARS before I'm stuck using this crap at work.

 

[themadchemist]

Originally posted by rueyeet
From looking at the page and reading through the features of Longhorn, it actually does seem different from the previous Windows versions. But I'm not sure it's in good ways.

One of the things that makes me most nervous (because as long as I keep this job, this'll probably end up on my desktop someday) is that Microsoft has dropped even the pretense of the browser as a separate app, and completely integrated it with the desktop. For even more fun, some of the code is now based on the .NET framework (though the page notes that those parts seem to crash often).

Also, they're going even farther to separate computer concepts from computer use by grouping together similar types of files in these "Libraries", so that the user needn't have any concept of physical drives or directories, or any understanding of where their files are actually located. They can just open their "Music Library" and see all their music files, no matter where those files are actually saved.

I see two things wrong with that: First, a user who doesn't understand the concept of where their files go is a user who will consistently misplace their files, no matter what you call the places they can put them. Secondly, given Microsoft's tendency to assume it knows more about what you're attempting to accomplish with your computer than you do, I wouldn't be surprised if the system itself misfiled or obscured something in the attempt to be "helpful".

And then there's that stupid Sidebar thing. Why would you have that collection of graphical junk hanging out on the side of your screen, taking up real estate? And what does half of it actually do that you shouldn't be able to call up in seconds from the Start menu, or put a shortcut to on your desktop? Some of the Tiles you can put in the Sidebar are just entirely useless--Slide Show? User (which just shows the user picture)?

A lot of the technical innovation of Longhorn seems to be more fancy graphics, a new, searchable file system (WinFS), and integrated .NET. Two of those Apple's already got, and the other they'll hopefully never have. But unfortunately the changes to the Windows user interface are innovative mostly as new ways to further obscure the system from the user in the name of making it yet more idiot-proof and Microsoft-controllable. My Mac feels so transparent and configurable by comparison!

I'm glad the development is going slowly. Hopefully it'll be YEARS before I'm stuck using this crap at work.

precisely! transparent is the perfect word for the Mac. It is easy to use, not because of some facade of simplicity, but because the true, unadulterated interface is actually simple.

Windows feigns simplicity for the novice user through Wizards and widgets that try to mask the inherently unituitive interface.

 

[grabberslasher]

Actually, and this is coming from a long-time mac user (well, since my IIsi - that's what, 10 years), I think Longhorn is the best version of Windows yet (even as an alpha). I have run it in Virtual PC on my TiBook and on my PC at home and it has a few features that *gasp* might even surpass the Mac OS.

Wait a sec, hear me out...

1) It has human-like searching, not like the Finder: (see picture 1)

e.g. In Longhorn you can search for "pictures that John sent to me last week" or "documents that Anne created yesterday". Because the file system is databased, the search is instant.

2) It has a nifty feature that is hard to explain... it allows you to open the parent folder of any folder or the parent of any folder you have open. Sounds confusing...

OK, say I opened "/Users/grabberslasher/Documents".

With one click of a button in the address bar in Longhorn, I would be able to open the hard disk root, "Users" folder or the "grabberslasher" folder. And just by selecting a pull down menu I could then open the "/system" folder or "/applications", or any other folder in each level. Very hard to understand without a picture but it's all I can do. Trust me, it's very handy.

Those are two things off the top of my head. Another thing is the buttons, when you mouseover a focus ring fades in around the button. They are quite attractive.

Don't take me as a Winbloze geek. I have also had redhat and BeOS installed on the same PC. My powerbook is my love though. (The reason I had the PC was that my ISDN modem only worked with Windows)

BTW, Microsoft's libraries in Longhorn fulfill the same idea as "Piles" would have done in Panther.

Maybe M$ are innovating... for once (if you ignore fast user switching) but remember, Longhorn has been pushed back to 2006. Apple will be well past them by then.

What a rant...

Picture attached below of the search feature:

 

[grabberslasher]

Here's what I mean (for part 2)
The bit circled in orange is the thing I am talking about.

One click takes you to the Control Panel, but a click on the arrow beside it will give you access to everything in My Computer. A click on the arrow beside "Hardware an..." will give you a list of each of the control panels.

I prefer this to column view.

 

[ColoJohnBoy]

Oh Microsoft. You're so cute. It's like watching my nephews. One is seven and one of his younger brother's is three. The three year old is constantly trying to imitate his older brother; he's always in so much awe of him, and wants so desperately to be like him. Everything he does, of course, falls far short of what the older nephew does.

Yes, Microsoft, you are the younger brother. Try as you might, Windows will never be a Mac OS, and will never have the simple, beautiful functionality of OS X. But thanks for trying. You might get a page or two in the Computer Family scrapbook.

 

[Powerbook G5]

So the search feature is like AskJeeves.com...you use it once like "Where are my pictures from last week?" but after that you just type the quick and dirty "this file" to get what you want. It doesn't seem like Longhorn is doing anything more than adding about 1,000,000% more bloat with some graphical touches and things that it will get burnt in court. I thought they got slapped on the wrists already for trying to integrate IE into Windows, so why are they trying to do it yet again? And .NET being integrated is *not* a good thing. It seems like Longhorn is going to be a massive beast that will take over your computer and dumb it down from a college educated gentleman to a pre-k level "Special Ed". I put files in a specific folder for a specific reason, I click on something for a reason, and I use my computer in the exact way I want to, and I would hate it if I had the OS trying to treat me like I were 3 years old.

 

[xpormac]

Can't wait, seems like its going to be great .

 

[Powerbook G5]

As great as a brain tumor

 

[Thanatoast]

Longhorn *will* be great.

It will be a great opportunity for more converts. When people get disgusted by their computers not paying attention to them (are you sure you didn't want to this instead? "I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that..."), not getting any more secure, and the implementation of DRM (that's in Longhorn, right?) that will be the perfect time to point out that OSXI doesn't do any of that crap. It just lets you work, play, or whatever - without signifcant stress or cursing.

 

[xpormac]

Originally posted by Thanatoast
Longhorn *will* be great.

It will be a great opportunity for more converts. When people get disgusted by their computers not paying attention to them (are you sure you didn't want to this instead? "I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that..."),

Lol, a line from airplane 2....

not getting any more secure,

ehh? you think security won't be upgraded or better? Read up on it.

. It just lets you work, play, or whatever - without signifcant stress or cursing.

I've cursed at my mac !!!!! lol

 

[grabberslasher]

Airplane? How 'bout 2001 : A Space Oddessy.

(At least I think I'm sure...)