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MTV and Microsoft Music Store in 2006
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You can burn WMA's onto CD and then rip the tracks from the CD to remove the DRM. Same as iTunes songs.
I just wish they'd remove the DRM altogether on iTunes. And boost it to 192. Then i'd be happy.
Actually, seeing as I'm making wishes, more dance music too.
I just wish they'd remove the DRM altogether on iTunes. And boost it to 192. Then i'd be happy.
Actually, seeing as I'm making wishes, more dance music too.
I would have been concerned for apple except for the fact that these are in .wmv format. .wmv=crap and cant play on the pod. Being an ex-employee of MTV Networks I would have given them a little more credit. They have some smart people working there and this .wmv decision really puts a dink in thier reputation. There would be nothing wrong with them teaming up with the devil and supporting multiple audio formats. They are a buisness and want to make $$$, but the wmv format is almost as useless as the .rm format when it comes to music. they might as well have only offered 8 track versions.
The problem with burning and re-ripping the DRMed music via CD, is that AAC and WMA are lossy codecs. You are already missing data from the songs. Now you burn them to CD and then re-rip them into another lossy format. Congratulations you now have 2x worse quality music. A comparision I can give you is recording a show onto VHS, and then dubbing the tape. You get all the artifacts from the original recording, plus more artifacts on the dub. The worst of both worlds. If you want to decrypt the DRM without screwing up the original audio stream (which is illegal and against the EULA you agreed to with the Apple Music Store) Then you can try a program called jHymn that retrieves the protection key from the music store for you and unlocks the file. I will not post any links here, because this is questionable ethics. I am however in support of fair use. And the terms on iTunes music store are clearly against fair use rights.EssentialParado said:
Stella said:
While you're entirely correct that it is Apple's fault, I doubt Microsoft licenses WMA for free. Why would Apple ad cost to the iPod when no one seems to care?
I mean, yes it's their fault. But is there anything wrong with making the iPod $1 (arbitrary value chosen here) cheaper rather than adding a feature only rival executives are asking for? Personally I assume they pocket that extra dollar rather than passing on the savings to us, but good on them as far as I'm concerned.
David
So a file format is crap if it can't play on your iPod? What kind of logic is this? They are working with Microsoft on this... Of course it will be an MS only format. Can you play .mov files on Windows media player? Not without a third party hack. The Mac world has a similar third party plugin to allow playback of .wmv files. It's called flip4mac. There are also programs that can re-encode the wmv file into the format of your choice. (mpeg, mpeg4, or mov to be fully compatable with the iPod.)freeny said:
Anyway, calling a format crap because it can't be viewed with the hardware of your choice is not logical. my sony PSP can't play .mov files. Do I call .mov crap? No.
I own a Corvette Z06, and you're telling me there's a new Cobalt coming out? Big deal...
It will be interesting to see how well this store does, but I will truly be surprised if they become a legitimate threat to Apple. But, as with anything else, competition is a good thing - bring 'em on!
It will be interesting to see how well this store does, but I will truly be surprised if they become a legitimate threat to Apple. But, as with anything else, competition is a good thing - bring 'em on!
KrysBaz said:
MTV shows? Like The Real World? I tell you what, buy me an iSight and I'll record myself getting drunk and yelling at someone and I'll give you the clip for free.
Super Dave said:While you're entirely correct that it is Apple's fault, I doubt Microsoft licenses WMA for free. Why would Apple ad cost to the iPod when no one seems to care?
I mean, yes it's their fault. But is there anything wrong with making the iPod $1 (arbitrary value chosen here) cheaper rather than adding a feature only rival executives are asking for? Personally I assume they pocket that extra dollar rather than passing on the savings to us, but good on them as far as I'm concerned.
David
Absolutely, couldn't say better myself.
When it comes to the cost of wma license fee - I wonder how much getting wma on to iPod would be to microsoft:
Would they offer it to apple for free in a multiple year deal?
( is wma on iPod that much of a prize to microsoft )
Why YES! It is crap. WMV player pauses and gets choppy and is sloooow whenever you try to fast forward or reverse. You cant pick a specific time spot in anything like you can in Quicktime, It only support wmv format, you cant edit and the interface is horrible. And why would you buy music from one place that you need to buy a third party plugin to re-encode, then convert all the while losing quality for $2 a pop when you can just get it for a dollar and it plays??? Its so obvious that Microsoft is hoping that some of the MTV "cool" rubs off on them like one of the previous posters had said. And thanks for the "news alert" on the Flip4mac app Mr Cronkite. Better get the word out!!Randall said:
MTV + Microsoft = dieing breed
I think this announcement makes perfect sense? MTV is on a downward spiral and wants to appeal to a new market? I for one do not care to see the latest "rapper" and half naked women being yelled at and told to shake there "money maker" 7 ways to Sunday. And Microsoft can't seem to get an OS right without .72 revisions, so the two are made for one another.
However, I doubt the demographics MTV is trying to reach with this is attainable... They're not the one's buying Ipods anyhow!
I think this announcement makes perfect sense? MTV is on a downward spiral and wants to appeal to a new market? I for one do not care to see the latest "rapper" and half naked women being yelled at and told to shake there "money maker" 7 ways to Sunday. And Microsoft can't seem to get an OS right without .72 revisions, so the two are made for one another.
However, I doubt the demographics MTV is trying to reach with this is attainable... They're not the one's buying Ipods anyhow!
Microsoft is CRAP, MTV is crap...the most amazing thing will be seeing young morons spending their dollars on horrible clips and songs...MTV was fairly good in its early days...then it succumbed to commercial labels. Moving right along...
Sounds like this is the MTV music store, not MTV-and-Microsoft (and not the first music store to use Microsoft's help).
They announced intentions in 2003... and still having nothing? Not until 2006?
The irony would be if they have already spent the money on a big campaign about how subscriptions are better than iTunes, ready to run the ads in mid-Jan. Not knowing that Apple is about to add a subscription option to iTMS just days before.... (I know renting music is not for most people--me included--but Apple still might add the option someday.)
As for Apple supporting WMA... no. Apple has no reason to HELP Microsoft exploit their monopoly! Maybe someday it will make sense to do so, but with the iPod and iTMS already successful, I doubt that time is now.
They announced intentions in 2003... and still having nothing? Not until 2006?
The irony would be if they have already spent the money on a big campaign about how subscriptions are better than iTunes, ready to run the ads in mid-Jan. Not knowing that Apple is about to add a subscription option to iTMS just days before....
(I know renting music is not for most people--me included--but Apple still might add the option someday.)As for Apple supporting WMA... no. Apple has no reason to HELP Microsoft exploit their monopoly! Maybe someday it will make sense to do so, but with the iPod and iTMS already successful, I doubt that time is now.
Randall said:
No, but you can play a .mov file on windows using quicktime for windows. People have to jump through hoops to get protected .wma files to even play on a mac (and can't burn the files to CD) and it gets even worse with protected .wmv files because MS doesn't really support windows media player on the mac.
MTV/Microsoft has three problems here.
#1 - the iPod dominates the market for mp3 players. If they don't support the iPod, they aren't going to sell a lot of music. And the iPod has already reached the critical mass that makes other players irrelevant, especially in MTV's target market. And apple has reached the economies of scale long enjoyed by PC companies that make it impossible for competing players to compete on price.
#2 - even if they offered something compatible with the iPod, they have to also offer a compelling reason for people to not use the built in iTunes music store to buy their music.
#3 - incompatibility with the mac is going to become increasingly more of a problem as Apple's market share is growing, especially in MTV's target audience.
Market Share
My first gut instinct was to post what so many others have posted. Why would anyone bother when 74%+ is already tied up in a more popular digital music player. Better is not really the issue here since that is just a word that has no relevence when it comes to business success. (Beta was better; FireWire is better, but dropped from the iPod). Popular seems to be the real issue when it comes to success.
So why would anyone compete against the company who has all the popularity? As Mac users, this question should scare the crap out of us. What if Steve Jobs wakes up one day and realizes that with only 4% or 5% market share in his computers he would be smart not competeing as the underdog when he rules in digital music. All that money in computer development could go to marketing and development of the next generation of music player. He's got 74% market share there, so why not. That would be smart.
Let's be glad that the guys with the money are stupid enough to develop seemingly dead markets. If they weren't, there would be no more Apple computers and we'd wouldn't have Mac Rumors, we'd have iPodrumors.com. Oh how exciting life would be. I would have to switch to linux or something.
Thank you Steve Jobs for being too stupid to realize that competing when you only have 4% is a bad idea. Thank you for continuing to make great products even though your fans seem to think that developing a market when a competitor has such a huge lead on you is a bad idea. If it is a bad idea for microsoft to jump in and compete against ITMS, then it is a bad idea for Apple to continue to try and compete against Microsoft based systems. They have a bigger lead on Mac then iPod's have on everything else. Remember, the issue is popularity. Better only wins if it is also popular, if it is just better, then people can admire it from afar and miss it when it is gone, but it still didn't win (or survive).
My first gut instinct was to post what so many others have posted. Why would anyone bother when 74%+ is already tied up in a more popular digital music player. Better is not really the issue here since that is just a word that has no relevence when it comes to business success. (Beta was better; FireWire is better, but dropped from the iPod). Popular seems to be the real issue when it comes to success.
So why would anyone compete against the company who has all the popularity? As Mac users, this question should scare the crap out of us. What if Steve Jobs wakes up one day and realizes that with only 4% or 5% market share in his computers he would be smart not competeing as the underdog when he rules in digital music. All that money in computer development could go to marketing and development of the next generation of music player. He's got 74% market share there, so why not. That would be smart.
Let's be glad that the guys with the money are stupid enough to develop seemingly dead markets. If they weren't, there would be no more Apple computers and we'd wouldn't have Mac Rumors, we'd have iPodrumors.com. Oh how exciting life would be. I would have to switch to linux or something.
Thank you Steve Jobs for being too stupid to realize that competing when you only have 4% is a bad idea. Thank you for continuing to make great products even though your fans seem to think that developing a market when a competitor has such a huge lead on you is a bad idea. If it is a bad idea for microsoft to jump in and compete against ITMS, then it is a bad idea for Apple to continue to try and compete against Microsoft based systems. They have a bigger lead on Mac then iPod's have on everything else. Remember, the issue is popularity. Better only wins if it is also popular, if it is just better, then people can admire it from afar and miss it when it is gone, but it still didn't win (or survive).
Stella said:
they can if they do away with the pointless DRM. They also could if they demanded it of microsoft. We won't use your stuff until you bring windows media player for the mac to full parity with the windows version and you enhance windows media player so it supports the ipod.
Make no mistake about it, MS could support the iPod with windows media player if they wanted to. They could convert their files to AAC and copy them to the iPod. They don't do this because they still think they can knock the iPod off.
alandail said:
Yeah right.. and how do you expect they will please the record companies without DRM?
Record companies would never sanction this.( i know there are one or two other on line stores that offer un-drm'ed music - but are they still going? ( not counting that russian site ) )
Psssst. You CAN fast forward and rewind WMV just as fast as any format. You CAN pick a specific time spot in the file to jump to, and you CAN edit it (sans DRM). The user interface is personal preference, and WMP11 has almost an identical interface compaired to QuickTime. This was obviously stolen by Microsoft because they are a big evil corporation that designs incompatable file formats to specifically piss you off. There are plenty of freeware programs out there that can recode all kinds of video streams. These are all null and void though assuming DRM is involved. Basically, your personal opinion is just that, and stating that WMV = crap is not a fair critique. A head to head checklist of it's features versus other media formats would have been more suitable. At least then you would have facts to go on, rather then your opinion. As for Flip4Mac, I was simply trying to state that there are ways to play "the enemy's" media formats on your favorite media player. Your sarcasim was appreciated though.freeny said:
Too bad, though...some competition for itms would do wonders (at keeping the prices down).Chundles said: