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Music Industry Fears Apple and is also Subject to iTunes Popularity Rankings

It would be amusing to see how much 'power' Apple would have if all the record companies thought ..... screw this were not putting up with this and walked.

iTunes Music Score would be killed overnight. Apple needs to be careful. Saying that none of my friends who used the iTunes Music Store do so any longer. There's just no point CD FTW :)
 
yeah... apple, stop over-advertising stupid music. i used to like hip hop and rock but now it's all crap.
 
mambodancer said:
Here is the link to the following APPLE support doc:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2172


You mean this list from Apples support site?
iTunes for Mac OS X: Compatible Players
Last Modified: July 22, 2008
Article: HT2172
Old Article: 93548
Summary
Learn which digital music players and CD MP3 players you can use with iTunes and Mac OS X.

Products Affected
Mac OS X 10.4, Mac OS X 10.3, Mac OS X 10.2, Mac OS X 10.1, Mac OS X 10.0, iTunes, Mac OS X 10.5

iTunes for Mac OS X has built-in support for digital music players and for CD MP3 players.

Notes

To play AAC and AAC Protected songs, your iPod must have iPod Software 1.3 or later installed. Not all digital music players can play AAC songs and only iPod can play AAC Protected songs.
Songs you import from an audio CD using the AAC format can be converted to MP3 files, which you can burn to MP3 CDs or play on third-party digital music players.
Songs purchased from the iTunes Store are encoded using the AAC Protected format and cannot be converted to MP3 format. You can burn them to audio CDs and play them in consumer audio CD players.


Digital Players Manufacturer Connection
iPod Apple FireWire / USB
Nomad II Creative Labs USB
Nomad II MG Creative Labs USB
Nomad II c Creative Labs USB
Nomad Jukebox Creative Labs USB
Nomad Jukebox 20GB Creative Labs USB
Nomad Jukebox C Creative Labs USB
Novad MuVo Creative Labs USB
Rio One SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio 500 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio 600 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio 800 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio 900 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio S10 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio S11 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio S30S SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio S35S SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio S50 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio Chiba SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio Fuse SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio Cali SONICBlue/S3 USB
psa]play 60 Nike USB
psa]play 120 Nike USB
SoundSpace 2 Nakamichi USB
CD MP3 Players Manufacturer
RioVolt SP250 SONICBlue/S3
RioVolt SP100 SONICBlue/S3
RioVolt SP90 SONICBlue/S3
Click to expand...

I would assume that's a leftover from its previous life as soundjam.
 
Well...

garybUK said:
It would be amusing to see how much 'power' Apple would have if all the record companies thought ..... screw this were not putting up with this and walked.

iTunes Music Score would be killed overnight. Apple needs to be careful. Saying that none of my friends who used the iTunes Music Store do so any longer. There's just no point CD FTW :)
Click to expand...

I think the record companies know if they walk from Itunes, folks who switched from Torrents/Limewire/Emule (getting music for free) would instantly go right back to Torrents/Limewire/Emule.

Same probably goes for Itunes subscriptions. The current model is reasonably pro-customer, any other model much less so.

All of these companies need to stop worrying about "enhancing their revenue", and worry more about "making a decent product that people want/need".
 
Stately said:
Oh well, that's where greed gets ya. Hmm.. now we have to do something about these disgusting phone companies. Lets go Apple, build some towers and charge your customers fair prices. I guarantee you sales would go beyond the roof, it would be a historical phenomenon. Anything done with the care of the customer in mind ends up being lucrative in many more ways than one. :D
Click to expand...

:eek: Well, ****, you beat me to it! Apple should launch its own cellular network (or buy and improve an existing one) exclusively for the iPhone. :D
 
mambodancer said:
iTunes for Mac OS X has built-in support for digital music players and for CD MP3 players.

Digital Players Manufacturer Connection
iPod Apple FireWire / USB
Nomad II Creative Labs USB
Nomad II MG Creative Labs USB
Nomad II c Creative Labs USB
Nomad Jukebox Creative Labs USB
Nomad Jukebox 20GB Creative Labs USB
Nomad Jukebox C Creative Labs USB
Novad MuVo Creative Labs USB
Rio One SONICBlue/S3 USB
Click to expand...

I can confirm that my old 32Mb Nomad IIc worked with iTunes - it was great. I haven't tried it on a newer version though. Perhaps it's worth a try to see if it works!

EDIT: Just checked and iTunes does still work with my old Creative Labs player. It holds a whopping 7 songs...
 
Hard to feel sorry for the music industry after years of being ripped off by over-priced CDs and their current antics fighting the file-sharing community.

On the other hand, it can't be good for one corporation to have such influence over the music tastes of the Western world.

I guess it's part of homogenization of world culture in the post-industrial age.
 
slu said:
I guess I don't understand the point you are trying to make then. Are you trying to say that Creative could still support OS X and still synch with iTunes if they wanted to? They purposely decided not to do this?

Is it not just as likely that only old players still work because Apple changed iTunes not to allow any other model to work and only grandfathered in these models because they existed before iTunes? In fact, would that be the more likely scenario since Apple is in the business of selling iPods?

Creative doesn't currently support OS X.
Rio players do, but they are ridiculously outdated assuming you can find one and they still tout "Plays for Sure".

So the answer is that you can't really get a non-iPod that works with iTunes out-of-the box anymore, and you have not been able to for a while.

You seem to think it is the device manufacturer's fault this is the case. I do not agree with that. And thinking Apple is not biased against any other players is, quite frankly, naive.
Click to expand...

As others have stated, I do believe it has been the fault of 3rd party device manufacturers that their products aren't compatible with iTunes. And it makes sense that they didn't waste resources to obtain compatability.

iTunes defaults to AAC. The iTunes store uses protected AAC. Many (most?) users who choose iTunes also use the iTunes store to some degree. If you were going to download *protected* music from another source, you wouldn't be using iTunes. 3rd party developers didn't have permission to decode protected AAC, though they could make deals with Microsoft to license Play for Sure to decode protected MP3s. In this model, it makes very little sense for 3rd parties to bother with AAC and iTunes. iTunes folks are going to be buying iPods, because that is the only way to get access to iTunes store content.

With DRM rapidly vanishing (supposedly gone completely in just a few more months), the model for 3rd party device manufacturers may very well change. Suddenly there will be a very good reason to support AAC and iTunes since the music portion of the iTunes store is no longer locked to proprietary DRM. Conceivably this could hurt iPod sales, time will tell. It's good for the consumer though, at least as far as pure music players are concerned.

One could argue that Apple is being altruistic and has the consumer's best interests at heart. The reality is that it likely won't hurt the bottom line. The Touch/iPhone is the future of the iPod line. Apple doesn't need proprietary DRM to sell those devices. The app store will protect their portable product line far better than protected AAC ever did.
 
The problem with the current music industry is technology. In the past, the consumer had to wait for an artist to release an album, and the only way that you could hear that music was to purchase that album. Also, the musician had to convince a record producer that their stuff was worth a damn to turn into an album.

Technology changed that with computers and CD-Rs. Consumer soon found out that songs on CDs were simply audio files. And like any other file on a computer, they could be copied, pasted, manipulated, and shared. This now posed a tremendous market failure for both the musician and the music industry because the availability of technology to share made it that much harder to make a profit off of music, especially physical albums.

Apple saw this market failure and stepped in at the right time in the right place. It didn't say "let's try and go back to the way things were"; it said "there's no denying progress so why hold it back?". They offered the music industry and musicians the legitimate way to combat piracy - iTunes. Apple, iPod, and iTunes became the catalysts for a transformation in the music industry over the past decade to focus more on quality instead of quantity.

And the market mechanism that keeps this in check is, in fact, peer-to-peer file sharing. In the old days, the record labels knew that if they churned out sub-par crap, sure they would not make as much of a profit but people still had to buy the album to make up their own minds. But not anymore. The music industry and musicians now realize file sharing has become a stage IV metastasized cancer and it can't be stopped. But it can be mitigated. We saw this with the likes of Radiohead and Coldplay, appealing to the consumers and asking them to place a normative value on quality music. They realize now that if people find quality in a product, they will reward that quality through legitimate means. And Apple has established itself as THE industry leader for the consumer to exercise their preferences through legitimate means.
 
Keep touting this list of ancient mp3 players that works with iTunes people, but it does not have any merit with me. Find a current device that works.

And you all keep saying that you know it is the device manufacturer's problem their new devices don't work with iTunes. How do you know that? Do you work for Creative? Did they put out a press release saying they are dropping iTunes support?

And since when is syncing using iTunes the "standard"? It is certainly the most popular, but it most certainly is proprietary.

Here is all I know:

No current devices work with iTunes except iPods
Apple is in the business of selling iPods
Since iPods are the most popular music player, most people use iTunes
Creative (and others) are also in the business of selling music players
Most music on iTunes is now DRM free

Now it doesn't take a Harvard Business Degree to see that if I want to sell a non-iPod music player to someone with an iPod, making it work with iTunes would be a brilliant move. You would not have to change anything except the device you plug in, especially now that the songs are DRM free. You could even advertise it like that, or advertise a credit of some sort to get people to upgrade their music to iTunes plus so it all is playable on the device.

But apparently every other music player manufacturer in the world would rather spend their time and development resources on their own syncing software, even though Apple has done them this huge favor of writing this standard and open platform for everyone to use! Man, what a bunch of idiots!

Or perhaps the main reason iTunes exists is to sell iPods?
 
slu said:
snip
Click to expand...

You still have the problem of TV Show and Movies (rentals) all have DRM. So while playing music is nice, and many devices can do it, playing video is better. And those other devices still can't do it. Unless Apple plans on removing DRM from m4v's.
 
slu said:
Keep touting this list of ancient mp3 players that works with iTunes people, but it does not have any merit with me. Find a current device that works.

And you all keep saying that you know it is the device manufacturer's problem their new devices don't work with iTunes. How do you know that? Do you work for Creative? Did they put out a press release saying they are dropping iTunes support?

....

But apparently every other music player manufacturer in the world would rather spend their time and development resources on their own syncing software, even though Apple has done them this huge favor of writing this standard and open platform for everyone to use! Man, what a bunch of idiots!

Or perhaps the main reason iTunes exists is to sell iPods?
Click to expand...

As I stated in my post above, up until now I don't think it was economically viable for 3rd party device manufacturers to bother with iTunes compatibility. Since Fairplay can't be licensed, the iTunes store was closed off to any non-iPod device. How many people would use iTunes alongside a player that doesn't work with any content purchased at the iTunes store? There is no market there. Why on earth spend resources on such a device?

Non-DRM music changes the equation completely. Now there is a large potential market for non-iPod players that are iTunes compatible. The reason they aren't available TODAY is that it takes time to, you know, actually develop and release a new product. The removal of DRM from iTunes store music was just announced. The switch hasn't even happened yet. I would guess we are looking at 6 to 9 months before 3rd party players that are iTunes compatible could hit the market. A little shorter, a little longer?

Maybe you are correct. Maybe Apple has intentionally blocked off competing devices at the level of the iTunes app. It doesn't make much sense to me, but it's certainly possible. Time will tell. I expect to see many non-iPod players that can sync with iTunes by the end of the year. They won't be runaway hits, because they still won't be able to play iTunes store video. And they obviously won't have access to the app store. But I think you will see them in the not-too-distant future.
 
Being in the biz myself, I know why the big 4 are scared that Apple would pull their songs off the front page or even the whole store... it's exactly what they would do to threaten a new band into giving up more money/rights.
They have shelved albums of 'non-cooperative' acts. Just to show who's boss.

Good to see them getting a bit of what they dish out (or at least believing they will get some of it dished out to them).

Apple, make a record label!
 
slu said:
Keep touting this list of ancient mp3 players that works with iTunes people, but it does not have any merit with me. Find a current device that works.

And you all keep saying that you know it is the device manufacturer's problem their new devices don't work with iTunes. How do you know that? Do you work for Creative? Did they put out a press release saying they are dropping iTunes support?

And since when is syncing using iTunes the "standard"? It is certainly the most popular, but it most certainly is proprietary.

Here is all I know:

No current devices work with iTunes except iPods
Apple is in the business of selling iPods
Since iPods are the most popular music player, most people use iTunes
Creative (and others) are also in the business of selling music players
Most music on iTunes is now DRM free

Now it doesn't take a Harvard Business Degree to see that if I want to sell a non-iPod music player to someone with an iPod, making it work with iTunes would be a brilliant move. You would not have to change anything except the device you plug in, especially now that the songs are DRM free. You could even advertise it like that, or advertise a credit of some sort to get people to upgrade their music to iTunes plus so it all is playable on the device.

But apparently every other music player manufacturer in the world would rather spend their time and development resources on their own syncing software, even though Apple has done them this huge favor of writing this standard and open platform for everyone to use! Man, what a bunch of idiots!

Or perhaps the main reason iTunes exists is to sell iPods?
Click to expand...

It IS the manufacturers problem. If apple manually added sync support to iTunes the software would become bloated, Nobodsy wants that.

The fact that only old/pre ipod players work with itunes shows that itunes did use a standard method to sync than the manufacturers actively chose to opt out of in favour of their own software such as sonys sonic stage, A terrible piece of software written for windows only (making the player "non os x compatible).

The software they make is usually so unstable/featureless that most users of these devices prefer to use what they normally use (be that winamp or itunes) combined with the usb mass-storage access to drag and drop files directly onto the player. Which can be done directly from itunes.

If you have a problem with a device being unable to sync with itunes then put your complaint to the manufacturer of seid device.
It is easy for a device to be given support for a single sync system but infeasable for a piece of software to have support for many sync systems.
 
slu said:
Keep touting this list of ancient mp3 players that works with iTunes people, but it does not have any merit with me. Find a current device that works.

And you all keep saying that you know it is the device manufacturer's problem their new devices don't work with iTunes. How do you know that? Do you work for Creative? Did they put out a press release saying they are dropping iTunes support?

And since when is syncing using iTunes the "standard"? It is certainly the most popular, but it most certainly is proprietary.

Here is all I know:

No current devices work with iTunes except iPods
Apple is in the business of selling iPods
Since iPods are the most popular music player, most people use iTunes
Creative (and others) are also in the business of selling music players
Most music on iTunes is now DRM free

Now it doesn't take a Harvard Business Degree to see that if I want to sell a non-iPod music player to someone with an iPod, making it work with iTunes would be a brilliant move. You would not have to change anything except the device you plug in, especially now that the songs are DRM free. You could even advertise it like that, or advertise a credit of some sort to get people to upgrade their music to iTunes plus so it all is playable on the device.

But apparently every other music player manufacturer in the world would rather spend their time and development resources on their own syncing software, even though Apple has done them this huge favor of writing this standard and open platform for everyone to use! Man, what a bunch of idiots!

Or perhaps the main reason iTunes exists is to sell iPods?
Click to expand...

You don't see any of Rio's later players or any Creatives from after they dropped the Nomad name on that list, but you see older ones. Doesn't that provide enough of a hint? Apple even maintained support for those older players rather than eliminating support for those players. Microsoft required that OEMs support only Microsoft formats. In fact, after joining Microsoft's Plays For Sure marketing scheme, iRiver dropped OGG Vorbis support (although they later re-added compatibility). WHy don't you do some more research before you make these assumptions. All iTMS purchases were DRM'd until recently; even if Apple supported other players in iTunes, you'd have to burn the songs to a disk and re-import them to strip out the DRM; it's not practical and it therefore causes no problem if iTunes had supported more recent competing devices.
 
studiomusic said:
Being in the biz myself, I know why the big 4 are scared that Apple would pull their songs off the front page or even the whole store... it's exactly what they would do to threaten a new band into giving up more money/rights.
They have shelved albums of 'non-cooperative' acts. Just to show who's boss.

Good to see them getting a bit of what they dish out (or at least believing they will get some of it dished out to them).

Apple, make a record label!
Click to expand...

Exactly! There we go. And they have done far worse. The control is lessening and it never should have been there in the first place. Believe me people are waking up slowly but surely over this. It's funny, this conversation has to lead one to the bigger questions of morals, values and ethics. It's about time to set things straight.:cool:
 
Seems about right. There isn't a single person I know who doesn't use iTunes in some fashion. Even if someone doesn't have an iPhone or iPod, they use iTunes to browse music, etc...

Friends have tried alternatives and end up back where they started with iTunes
 
We're all different in our music habits, but I don't see my mobile time (i.e. out and about) as the time when I want to be 'exploring new music', as the music companies dream of with subscription phones.

I can't envision the interface that makes maneuvering millions of songs feasable on a 2" screen, unless you know in advance what you're looking for. In that case, its not 'exploring', is it?

Music execs want subscription not because it is better, but because it returns control to them, and kills the idea of music 'ownership'.
 
ChrisA said:
I used to be, back when I was a kid that you heard and discovered new music on FM radio. Now days that is the last place you might expect to hear something new and different.

On the "old days" there were DJs who would have hundreds of singles and new albums mailed to them and they'd listen at home and find music for their shows. But now the DJs are given play lists by management and the lists are carefully tailored to a specific formula, or "format". It is "format radio" that has driven everyone to use other methods, like iTunes to find music

Here in the So. California we are lucky to have several good public radio stations where the DJs still control the music mix and they can play something they themselves just discovered. This is not common any more.

The music industry did it to them selves.
Click to expand...

For those not in cali Try the Uk's radio one, it's on sirius. They still do things properly in the evenings.
 
I am happy to see the control out of the record labels hands not because of "greed" because Apple is still guilty of same. I think the labels are getting their just desserts from the way they treat their artists.

I don't foresee the same thing happening in the movie realm. Netflix is doing better than Itunes, Apple TV is a bust, blu ray prices are continuously falling, and dont forget about the cable companies who control the bandwidth that digital video relies upon.
 
talkingfuture said:
The fact that Apple has put fear into the record companies amuses me greatly.
Click to expand...

and ill relish the day when Apple puts fear into Microsoft


might be sooner than you think

and im hearing rumors that MS is pulling the plug on Zune
they sold 10-20 over the holidays
 
Wikipedia gives some insight to OSX and Creative. They used to supply drivers for Linex, OSX and Microsoft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_NOMAD

For NOMAD Jukeboxes

libnjb is the driver underlying most of the following programs
Amarok is a music player for Linux
Banshee is a music player for Linux
Gnomad is a Jukebox Manager for Linux
Neutrino is another Jukebox Manager for Linux
XNJB is a Jukebox Manager for Mac OS X
Nomadsync is a Jukebox synchronization tool for both Microsoft Windows and Linux
Creative Nomad Jukebox KIO::Slave is an integration driver for KDE
JBHTTP is a webserver interface to Jukeboxes that is similar to what Notmad Explorer (see below) provides for Microsoft Windows
 
Awww, poor record companies afraid of Apple. LOL!

They get what they deserve because record companies have been dragging their knuckles on digital music for years. Instead of spending all that money on suing college students, they should have been investing in new digital distribution technology and planning for the future.

Talk about an EPIC FAIL from the record companies.
 
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