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Until you can plug in a competing MP3 player into iTunes and it syncs with no problems, there is still that exclusivity that Apple employs....

Apple's under no requirement to make its competitors devices work with their software, rather companies like Creative and iRiver should be in the business of making their players work with iTunes. If Apple was intentionally breaking this compatibility that would be a different set of problems, but Apple isn't required to help the competition develop their devices.

I guess I don't understand the point you are trying to make then. Are you trying to say that Creative could still support OS X and still synch with iTunes if they wanted to? They purposely decided not to do this?...You seem to think it is the device manufacturer's fault this is the case. I do not agree with that. And thinking Apple is not biased against any other players is, quite frankly, naive.

In most cases it is the fault of manufacturers. Rather than stick to a standard system for syncing media to your device they favour using poorly made software designed by them that they expect you to use as your music player on your computer as well. If this software is released for windows only then the device is labelled as non OS X compatible. (sony are the worst for this imo).

At least they still give you the option of mass storage mode, allowing you to just drag/drop files/playlists directly from itunes/finder/explorer onto the device.

Kurosov is correct, the other manufacturers are using their own schemes, and often Microsoft's DRM, in an attempt to create a competitive advantage. That this strategy has been a failure since 2002-2003 is their problem. Again, Apple's under no obligation to make their software work with Creative, iRiver, Dell, or Microsoft, or the other dozen-odd manufacturers out there.


EDIT: Someone mentioned that MTV2 plays videos and in looking through their schedule for today and all I see is 24 hours of reality-TV, including a five-hour block of "HSS: Scandals, Pranks & Controversies."
 
I trust Apple as much as a record label. They are really only interested in making money. There is no 'love of music' going on. I continue to buy music on CD, and see that as the only useful format.

All the itunes people are getting is a sonically second rate version of something an artist has worked hard to make sound as good as it can. You then have to buy something like an ipod to get the damn thing to work. Strangely Apple make those, and also make money out of those too.

The poor artist gets screwed in the process too. Apple were bitching about not paying greater royalties to artist not long ago.

Truly open formats would not tie you to a device. Apple have profitted from DRM by a different name, but only allowing purchased itunes content to work on an ipod.

Personally, I hope the itunes store sinks quicker than it took to gain it's monopoly.

Yet their recent announcement of removing DRM negates your arguement. digital downloads are useful for people who like to take their music on the go, do not use a cd player at home or do not have the space to store alot of physical boxes.

The iTunes store is also hardly a monopoly as there are a variety of digital music stores available for people to choose from.
 
This in a way doesn't surprise me too much. The shift of technology has allowed the likes of Amazon and Apple to shift the balance of power within the music industry. I know that if I want my music released in the future, it probably won't be with a record company: the Internet has given birth to the modern musician/band.

P.S. This will take ages to get in Australia :(
 
it's amazing how apple in < 10 years went from a nobody to the king of the U.S. music industry that everyone fears.

Heh thats what I was thinking. Back when I was getting into Macs iTunes was in its infant stages. I remember telling a friend back in school (in 2001) that MP3 is going to take over everything in a few years, but if someone told me Apple would be running the show then I'd never have believed it.
 
Sony is the company that sold mini disc players (MD) with line-in and USB-ports and blocked copying from MDs to PC (how many artists were released on MD, 2?) by reason of "we need to protect our artists". Obviously Sonys artists are so awful (*sarcastic, I in fact like several*) that they need to be protected from other peoples demos.

Seriously, for years now I'm yet to see them ever being on the consumers side. They even (in Japan) promised lots of upcoming games compatible with the PS2 HDD and had a huge drive TWO WEEKS before announcing that they would drop HDD support in the then upcoming smaller PS2.

Steve Jobs is said to be a "real mean customer" when he wants to, but imho whatever it was Sony most likely had it coming.

I think the engineers in Sony's customer electronics division will completely agree with you. What percentage of the iPod market does Sony have today? I had a quick look, the first Sony MP3 player on Amazon is #66. If they hadn't been held back by their music division, it might have been Sony who dominates that market. Even if they had only got 25 percent market share, Sony could have made more money with music players than they make by selling music.
 
Yup

The music industry and the movie industry are both scared of Apple. Now that Apple got what they wanted from the music industry, they need to start negotiating with the movie industry to get more. Why the heck is Hulu allowed to show free ad-supported shows and movies and Apple isn't? Think about how huge iTunes would be if you could get movies/tv free with Ads. Consumers would then have the ultimate choice in a medium that they already are used to. It's retarded that NBC posts full versions of their shows on their site for free but charges for them to be on iTunes. Consumers shouldn't have to go to a million sites to watch the shows they want...they should be able to go to iTunes and get everything they want...the way they want it. If they want to "own" the show/movie...fine then buy it. If they want to rent it..fine do that too. If you want to have a free ad-supported show put on your iPhone/iPod they should be able to do that also. Apple is so close...they need to do some more hard negotiating and make this idea happen. If Hulu can do it...so can Apple...except better. :)
 
I don't think we have to fear Apple becoming too powerful because in the end the record companies hold the rights and they could move to a different distributer if Apple got corrupt :rolleyes:

Apple has really done nothing to hurt record companies sales right now, they just removed the DRM, upped the quality, and allowed them to charge a couple other prices as they see fit. Of course they also made them charge the same over cell towers as they do on the computer, which only makes sense.

So in the long run Apple is helping record companies.
 
The music industry and the movie industry are both scared of Apple. Now that Apple got what they wanted from the music industry, they need to start negotiating with the movie industry to get more. Why the heck is Hulu allowed to show free ad-supported shows and movies and Apple isn't? Think about how huge iTunes would be if you could get movies/tv free with Ads. Consumers would then have the ultimate choice in a medium that they already are used to. It's retarded that NBC posts full versions of their shows on their site for free but charges for them to be on iTunes. Consumers shouldn't have to go to a million sites to watch the shows they want...they should be able to go to iTunes and get everything they want...the way they want it. If they want to "own" the show/movie...fine then buy it. If they want to rent it..fine do that too. If you want to have a free ad-supported show put on your iPhone/iPod they should be able to do that also. Apple is so close...they need to do some more hard negotiating and make this idea happen. If Hulu can do it...so can Apple...except better. :)

I would rather pay for the TV shows and movies without having to watch those ads.I've been buying shows for over a year now knowing that I could watch them elsewhere as long as I watch those ads. No thanks.
 
it's amazing how apple in < 10 years went from a nobody to the king of the U.S. music industry that everyone fears.


You know what's even more amazing? In 33 years, Macs control only 7.4% of the market...that no one fears.
 
"Whether the industry likes it or not, the iTunes chart showing the most popular songs in America is a major influencer of how kids today discover and communicate with their friends what kind of music they like," said Charlie Walk, the former president of Epic Records, a unit of Sony Music.
Charlie Walk obviously doesn't know anything. He thinks kids buy music! :rolleyes:
 
Yet their recent announcement of removing DRM negates your arguement. digital downloads are useful for people who like to take their music on the go, do not use a cd player at home or do not have the space to store alot of physical boxes.

The iTunes store is also hardly a monopoly as there are a variety of digital music stores available for people to choose from.

The iTunes store is most definitely not a monopoly. It was only last year that it topped Wal-Mart in music sales, and I'm fairly sure that a lot of people still buy music at Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Target and Amazon (the other 4 of the top 5 music retailers).

I also guarantee you that more people own CD players than iPods. There have been about 180 million iPods sold worldwide. There are 6 billion people on the planet. CD players have been around for about 30 years now and have probably outsold iPods at least 10-fold.

Again, the iTunes store isn't even close to a monopoly. It's more like Boardwalk.
 
who seriously believes this NYTimes crap?

This is the next phase of the record industry's campaign to paint Apple as abusing a monopoly. "We, the pirate-ravaged record industry, are being bullied by the all powerful Apple iTunes." And the NY Times has either fallen for it, or (check their ownership) are co-operating in the record industry's campaign.

Let's look at the facts.

The announcement was a HUGE win for the record industry. Apple has handed the retail price of music product back to the record industry, who now control all retail prices on-line. The record industry can jack up the price on iTunes, so they don't have to take as much of a loss on Amazon to steal market from... iTunes. And there's NOTHING Apple can do about it.

The announcement was a small gain for Apple - yes they lose DRM, but now iTunes music is playable on other manufacturer's players - loss of exclusivity. The gamble is that- getting rid of DRM will win back customers who were shopping elsewhere. Nowhere near as good a deal for Apple as for the record industry, who are back in charge of the retail price of music - the one thing Steve was protecting us all from, by remaining intractable on the 99¢ price.

Thirdly, the NYTimes article informs us that the record industry 'claims' Apple had the upper hand in the negotiations. The only advantage Apple had, was that because they give their customers great service, they've become a large retailer. The record industry could turn off the tap tomorrow and iTunes would have no 'content' to sell. This happened with Universal/NBC and video content, so we know both the likelihood of it actually happening and the effect it would have on iTunes. This is misinformation from the record industry, who wouldn't publicly confirm their 'claims'.

So lets see if there's an explanation that fits the facts.

Having achieved an Apple back-down on price, and 'intractable Steve' out of the picture for at least 6 months, the record industry has seized the opportunity to begin a publicity campaign against Apple and iTunes. Specifically the power of the iTunes home page...

“Whether the industry likes it or not, the iTunes chart showing the most popular songs in America is a major influencer of how kids today discover and communicate with their friends what kind of music they like,” said Charlie Walk, the former president of Epic Records, a unit of Sony Music. “It’s a very powerful thing right now in American pop culture and immediately validates a hit song.”

Nasty, nasty Apple providing customers a service, instead of letting the record industry dictate the taste of music buyers. When will this madness end? Soon if the record industry gets its way.
 
+++

The "Music Industry"?

You mean, those same 6 guys are still whining because no one's interested in their product anymore because Personal Computers, the Internet and iPods have rendered their antiquated Recording and CD businesses -> passé?

Tempis Fugit, guys...

+++
 
List of 3rd party iTunes compatible MP3 players

Here is the link to the following APPLE support doc:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2172


You mean this list from Apples support site?
iTunes for Mac OS X: Compatible Players
Last Modified: July 22, 2008
Article: HT2172
Old Article: 93548
Summary
Learn which digital music players and CD MP3 players you can use with iTunes and Mac OS X.

Products Affected
Mac OS X 10.4, Mac OS X 10.3, Mac OS X 10.2, Mac OS X 10.1, Mac OS X 10.0, iTunes, Mac OS X 10.5

iTunes for Mac OS X has built-in support for digital music players and for CD MP3 players.

Notes

To play AAC and AAC Protected songs, your iPod must have iPod Software 1.3 or later installed. Not all digital music players can play AAC songs and only iPod can play AAC Protected songs.
Songs you import from an audio CD using the AAC format can be converted to MP3 files, which you can burn to MP3 CDs or play on third-party digital music players.
Songs purchased from the iTunes Store are encoded using the AAC Protected format and cannot be converted to MP3 format. You can burn them to audio CDs and play them in consumer audio CD players.


Digital Players Manufacturer Connection
iPod Apple FireWire / USB
Nomad II Creative Labs USB
Nomad II MG Creative Labs USB
Nomad II c Creative Labs USB
Nomad Jukebox Creative Labs USB
Nomad Jukebox 20GB Creative Labs USB
Nomad Jukebox C Creative Labs USB
Novad MuVo Creative Labs USB
Rio One SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio 500 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio 600 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio 800 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio 900 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio S10 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio S11 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio S30S SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio S35S SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio S50 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio Chiba SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio Fuse SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio Cali SONICBlue/S3 USB
psa]play 60 Nike USB
psa]play 120 Nike USB
SoundSpace 2 Nakamichi USB
CD MP3 Players Manufacturer
RioVolt SP250 SONICBlue/S3
RioVolt SP100 SONICBlue/S3
RioVolt SP90 SONICBlue/S3
 
Until you can plug in a competing MP3 player into iTunes and it syncs with no problems, there is still that exclusivity that Apple employs. You can also plug almost any non-iPod mp3 player into anything not named iTunes and it will sync in most cases. Is that the best policy to exclude any other mp3 player from working on iTunes? Probably. The music industry still believes that suscription is the way to go....idiots.

then your problem is not the store, its the program. because stuff from the store (well plus anyway, but its soon all plus) will work on any MP3 player, gaenteed. so this is the wrong thread to be posting your complaints.
 
Yes they do. Go into iTunes and do a search for the song Don't Lie by the Black Eyed Peas. It doesn't give you an option to purchase a clean or explicit version, and the song blanks out the f word. "******* with your heart like I was the predator"

thats not apple, thats the person who uploaded the file. its there call, apple doesn't care, they say people can put whatever they want on the store (as long as its not illegal, or like, porn)
 
And you obviously know nothing about reading comprehension. I stated that the DRM prevents you from using content purchaed on iTunes on any other device. This has not changed. The only thing that changed is less things now have DRM.

I know that AAC can be played on any player that supports it, but if you think that every song in the iTunes store is DRM free right now, you need to stop reading the press releases from Apple and actaully search the store.

The fact is that most songs are now DRM free, but they all are not DRM free. Apple claims they will be, but the problem remains until there is not one song with DRM on the store. And then you have to pay again to make them DRM-free, which is a major ripoff.

EDIT: And as was stated above, how do I synch a non-iPod with iTunes? Someone said they do it, but didn't name the players and didn't say how they do it. Apple wants to sell iPods. They are not going to allow another player to synch with iTunes, DRM or not.

Other than that, you are spot on.

odiously you weren't informed that by april (maybe march? i forgot the exact month), there will be no drm music on the store at all. apple has been pushing for this from the start, but they used drm cuase the lables made them untill they had enough power to tall them to shove it, and thats exactly what they did. be happy, your wish came true.
 
Apple's under no requirement to make its competitors devices work with their software, rather companies like Creative and iRiver should be in the business of making their players work with iTunes. If Apple was intentionally breaking this compatibility that would be a different set of problems, but Apple isn't required to help the competition develop their devices.

iTunes has a pretty good plug-in structure that devices could use to write sync interfaces since well it's Soundjam days. If the players wanted to do anything outside the ordinary. Oddly it seems this only ever got used by Apple to write the iPod sync and some core graphics visualizers.
 
I guess I don't understand the point you are trying to make then. Are you trying to say that Creative could still support OS X and still synch with iTunes if they wanted to? They purposely decided not to do this?

Is it not just as likely that only old players still work because Apple changed iTunes not to allow any other model to work and only grandfathered in these models because they existed before iTunes? In fact, would that be the more likely scenario since Apple is in the business of selling iPods?

Creative doesn't currently support OS X.
Rio players do, but they are ridiculously outdated assuming you can find one and they still tout "Plays for Sure".

So the answer is that you can't really get a non-iPod that works with iTunes out-of-the box anymore, and you have not been able to for a while.

You seem to think it is the device manufacturer's fault this is the case. I do not agree with that. And thinking Apple is not biased against any other players is, quite frankly, naive.

Actually, if you look at the list of other devices that iTunes supports, those were all released before Microsoft started their Plays For Sure marketing scheme. So it very much does have more to do with the device manufacturers and Microsoft and less to do with Apple. Thinking that it's purely Apple's desire to sell more iPods that led to no recent competing devices being supported in iTunes is, quite frankly, naive.

FU EMI
FU Sony
FU Universal
FU Vivendi
FU Warner

You have just been iTeabagged. Apple will now pet you like a bitch.

Movie studios, you're next.

Universal and Vivendi are the same company.........
 
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