Chomolungma said:
19" CRT base? You can barely get a handle on the eMac because of its surface. And a 19" would be prohibitively heavy. It might fall over on its own weight!
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MWSF Announcement Details?
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19" CRT base? You can barely get a handle on the eMac because of its surface. And a 19" would be prohibitively heavy. It might fall over on its own weight!
I am a prospective PBook buyer, my background has been primarily linux at home and Windows in the work place.
A lot of points have been brought up about the lag in Pbook hardware and the number of vulnerabilities in Windows etc etc as arguments for both sides.
What I'd like to say is that I consider myself a true "power user", as such I am not worried about the plauge of patches and spyware because they are not a problem for me (either because of running linux or I just have automated processes / common sense to avoid vulnerabilities). But being a power user, I want ease of use AND power because of how much of my life is spent on the bloody laptop.
Quite simply, the Power Book isn't there yet. In general, I have been very unimpressed with Apple hardware till the G5 processor came out. And quite frankly, the G5 processor is still not the top dog in the market. However, that IS a sacrifice I am willing to make to get the rest of the benefits that go with being an Apple laptop owner. I will not sacrifice down to the levels of a G4 processor. To be quite honest, I am not sure if a dual core G4 will appease me. Just seems like a stop gap or bandaid rather than a true solution.
The opinion I always had of the pbook was "yes it is expensive, but it is a luxury you want to pay for" Just not yet for me..
ok there are my ramblings. incoherent at best
A lot of points have been brought up about the lag in Pbook hardware and the number of vulnerabilities in Windows etc etc as arguments for both sides.
What I'd like to say is that I consider myself a true "power user", as such I am not worried about the plauge of patches and spyware because they are not a problem for me (either because of running linux or I just have automated processes / common sense to avoid vulnerabilities). But being a power user, I want ease of use AND power because of how much of my life is spent on the bloody laptop.
Quite simply, the Power Book isn't there yet. In general, I have been very unimpressed with Apple hardware till the G5 processor came out. And quite frankly, the G5 processor is still not the top dog in the market. However, that IS a sacrifice I am willing to make to get the rest of the benefits that go with being an Apple laptop owner. I will not sacrifice down to the levels of a G4 processor. To be quite honest, I am not sure if a dual core G4 will appease me. Just seems like a stop gap or bandaid rather than a true solution.
The opinion I always had of the pbook was "yes it is expensive, but it is a luxury you want to pay for" Just not yet for me..
ok there are my ramblings. incoherent at best
dalamarian said:I am a prospective PBook buyer, my background has been primarily linux at home and Windows in the work place.
A lot of points have been brought up about the lag in Pbook hardware and the number of vulnerabilities in Windows etc etc as arguments for both sides.
What I'd like to say is that I consider myself a true "power user", as such I am not worried about the plauge of patches and spyware because they are not a problem for me (either because of running linux or I just have automated processes / common sense to avoid vulnerabilities). But being a power user, I want ease of use AND power because of how much of my life is spent on the bloody laptop.
Quite simply, the Power Book isn't there yet. In general, I have been very unimpressed with Apple hardware till the G5 processor came out. And quite frankly, the G5 processor is still not the top dog in the market. However, that IS a sacrifice I am willing to make to get the rest of the benefits that go with being an Apple laptop owner. I will not sacrifice down to the levels of a G4 processor. To be quite honest, I am not sure if a dual core G4 will appease me. Just seems like a stop gap or bandaid rather than a true solution.
The opinion I always had of the pbook was "yes it is expensive, but it is a luxury you want to pay for" Just not yet for me..
ok there are my ramblings. incoherent at best
My Powerbook G4 1.33 Ghz 17" screen has more than enough power to accomplish most any task. Unless you have used the machine, don't judge it by Mhz alone. The G4 is a much more efficient processor than the Pentium and able to do more with less Mhz. It isn't how fast the processor is, it is how much you are able to get done with it in an amount of time, and how frequently it needs to be updated to have all the best features.
For more, see:
http://forgetcomputers.com/~jdroz/pages/09.html
gopher said:
For audio/video editing raw cpu power is essential. Many of the current audio apps I use would barely run on your setup.
I'm glad you are happy with what you've got, but don't knock those who demand higher performance (equivalent to PC) to do their work - we're not talking about saving a few seconds rendering, we're talking about being able to run the apps we use at all.
Yes I understand about mhz not being the only measure of a processor performance, I have been a loyal AMD owner for 7 years now. I also used to be an avid overlocker till I preferred stability over blazing speed. So the whole various specs (cache, fsb, compile optimizations, core, fab size architecture, ipc, etc etc) have already been taken into account.
And yes I have used a pbook g4 (15") for a couple weeks because a very kind friend lent it to me to try out.
And "more than enough to accomplish most any task", this isn't enough for me (and yes I am not expecting cluster performance numbers either for those with a sense of houmor)
And yes I have used a pbook g4 (15") for a couple weeks because a very kind friend lent it to me to try out.
And "more than enough to accomplish most any task", this isn't enough for me (and yes I am not expecting cluster performance numbers either for those with a sense of houmor)
gopher said:
Mudbug said:
Anonymous could be anyone though. Did they claim to be speculating, or claim to know things?
Umm
Judging from the topic of this thread (MWSF Announcements Details) and the fact that just about every posting to it has some discussion centered around an updated/redesigned powerbook it is quite obvious to me that there will be is a big need for apple to revamp the current powerbook. So it would be safe to say that this fact is probably pretty obvious to the higher ups at apple.
What really gets me laughing is the fact that there is SO much speculation from you guys about what apple is going to put out when you have no real idea what parts bin these machines will be put together from.
Futher more....Given the track record (From what i have read) with regards to new Apple products making it to production without their spec's being leaked to the internet.. I would assume it quite possible to keep a new Chip/motherboard architecture under raps without anyone knowing that it exists.
Making assumptions about what can be built with current inventory is like saying that they are going to redesign a current model car with existing parts.... Not exactly making it New just different... whle this can be true... remember, some things stay the some most other components are redesigned...
Another thing I keep thinking about is the fact that Apple totes the powerbook as a high end laptop... so if they release a new 64 bit OS Q1 wouldn't they want to make ANY of the items that they target to "power users" take advantage of utilizing that new OS rather than just being able to run a 64 bit OS on a 32 bit Laptop that is built for "power users" off of aging technology... Um.. that just doesn't seem to logical from a marketing/common sense stand point.
My crystal ball says changes for powerbook in JAN...And that is when I will be switching..... but I am just a newbie.... So I don't know that much.
BTW,
Will the current 15' powerbook be sufficient to handle any studio applications for making music... I see a lot of powerbooks as mandatory equipment for a lot of artists.... This is one of the reasons I want a MAC . Will the current powerbook be enough to handle my needs of producing music?
Thanks,
kdawg
Judging from the topic of this thread (MWSF Announcements Details) and the fact that just about every posting to it has some discussion centered around an updated/redesigned powerbook it is quite obvious to me that there will be is a big need for apple to revamp the current powerbook. So it would be safe to say that this fact is probably pretty obvious to the higher ups at apple.
What really gets me laughing is the fact that there is SO much speculation from you guys about what apple is going to put out when you have no real idea what parts bin these machines will be put together from.
Futher more....Given the track record (From what i have read) with regards to new Apple products making it to production without their spec's being leaked to the internet.. I would assume it quite possible to keep a new Chip/motherboard architecture under raps without anyone knowing that it exists.
Making assumptions about what can be built with current inventory is like saying that they are going to redesign a current model car with existing parts.... Not exactly making it New just different... whle this can be true... remember, some things stay the some most other components are redesigned...
Another thing I keep thinking about is the fact that Apple totes the powerbook as a high end laptop... so if they release a new 64 bit OS Q1 wouldn't they want to make ANY of the items that they target to "power users" take advantage of utilizing that new OS rather than just being able to run a 64 bit OS on a 32 bit Laptop that is built for "power users" off of aging technology... Um.. that just doesn't seem to logical from a marketing/common sense stand point.
My crystal ball says changes for powerbook in JAN...And that is when I will be switching..... but I am just a newbie.... So I don't know that much.
BTW,
Will the current 15' powerbook be sufficient to handle any studio applications for making music... I see a lot of powerbooks as mandatory equipment for a lot of artists.... This is one of the reasons I want a MAC . Will the current powerbook be enough to handle my needs of producing music?
Thanks,
kdawg
Powerbook 12.1 @1.5Ghz w/ati 9700 64mb? Man I hope you're wrong as that is everything that I wanted in teh PB I just bought. Funny thing is Apple Store return policy for Christmas is Jan 8 and the keynote is on the 11th. Damit.
Good points, kdawg. That company is good at keeping things under raps. However, the chips that Apple uses are not secret. As far as I know, Apple is not the only one able to purchase G4 and G5 processors so the info on the Freescale and IBM websites is public.
Squire
Squire
Yvan256 said:
Don't get me started on the Geforce FX 5200... I own a Geforce FX 5200, a Geforce 3 ti200, and a Radeon 9600 xt. A PC program called 3dmark03 is a very popular video card benchmarking app.
results:
geforce 3 ti200: 850
Radeon 9600xt: 4000
Geforce FX 5200: 450
It's very sad when a 3 generation older card beats a new generation card... Unfortuantly, apple tends to use the Geforce FX 5200 in 1/2 its computers...I refuse to buy any of those models. On the bright side, the Geforce FX 5200 is probably better than the onboard video that most pcs have these days
.
Clearly, that's why it is speculation... What really gets me laughing is the fact that you mock the speculation... and then take a few paragraphs to speculatekdawg said:
Isnt speculation what makes posting on these threads so fun? It seems like your real issue is that people have been too conservative in their forecasts...you on the other hand believe there will be some major upgrades. Who knows for sure - but we arent that far from finding out the truth.
I think a lot of posters have been basing their opinions on Apples history at MW and thats why you see so many conservative speculation posts. I think everyone on here would prefer to see a G5 in the powerbook or at least dual core G4's - its just that the odds arent that good.
I think a lot of posters have been basing their opinions on Apples history at MW and thats why you see so many conservative speculation posts. I think everyone on here would prefer to see a G5 in the powerbook or at least dual core G4's - its just that the odds arent that good.
eMacs with CRT... i don't think so.
Now in my opinion, i seem to think Apple will not deal with CRTs any longer. i assume that the current eMacs were leftover Apple Studio Displays (the ADC version) and they just stuck G4 processors in them. I just think Apple needed to get rid of their leftover CRTs so they made an eMac to get rid of them.
Just looking at apple's history of computers, they always milk out their massive deal of manufacturers on specific products. So apple likes to use old stuff and make it new.
Other case studies: If you notice the repeating of technologies from one computer to another, the powerbook G4 12" screens are the same as in the iBooks and even from the recent G4 and goin back to the clamshells. The 14.1" screens of the ibooks is similar to the old pismo G3's.
Now looking at this pattern, my prediction is the new eMacs would have to be an LCD screen using probably left over 4:3 non-wide 17" screens similar to the old iMacs and Apple Cinema Displays.
Now with it being a G5 is highly unlikely. It might be a more powerful G4 i predict since motorola is still dishing them out. So i don't know if it'll look like an imac, but should be somewhat similar. I think they might go back to the "lamplike" iMac look with a rectangular base rather than domeshaped for easy access and fix for AppleCare. The eMac are supposed to be the most "affordable" mac. But the way the iBooks are becoming so cheap, it seems like world of eMac will just end very soon. There goes the constant "e" that seems to confuse many customers already.
If mac wanted to expand the idea of eMac for School and iMac for home; They might want to make different size eMacs that will retain the 4:3 ratio. Most likely i'm thinking of the 12", 14" and the 17". So it'll be small enough to fit on their desks. And it may be touch screen so young kids can use it easily. plus a good new run of a new technology.
Now in my opinion, i seem to think Apple will not deal with CRTs any longer. i assume that the current eMacs were leftover Apple Studio Displays (the ADC version) and they just stuck G4 processors in them. I just think Apple needed to get rid of their leftover CRTs so they made an eMac to get rid of them.
Just looking at apple's history of computers, they always milk out their massive deal of manufacturers on specific products. So apple likes to use old stuff and make it new.
Other case studies: If you notice the repeating of technologies from one computer to another, the powerbook G4 12" screens are the same as in the iBooks and even from the recent G4 and goin back to the clamshells. The 14.1" screens of the ibooks is similar to the old pismo G3's.
Now looking at this pattern, my prediction is the new eMacs would have to be an LCD screen using probably left over 4:3 non-wide 17" screens similar to the old iMacs and Apple Cinema Displays.
Now with it being a G5 is highly unlikely. It might be a more powerful G4 i predict since motorola is still dishing them out. So i don't know if it'll look like an imac, but should be somewhat similar. I think they might go back to the "lamplike" iMac look with a rectangular base rather than domeshaped for easy access and fix for AppleCare. The eMac are supposed to be the most "affordable" mac. But the way the iBooks are becoming so cheap, it seems like world of eMac will just end very soon. There goes the constant "e" that seems to confuse many customers already.
If mac wanted to expand the idea of eMac for School and iMac for home; They might want to make different size eMacs that will retain the 4:3 ratio. Most likely i'm thinking of the 12", 14" and the 17". So it'll be small enough to fit on their desks. And it may be touch screen so young kids can use it easily. plus a good new run of a new technology.
I've in the camp that speculates there will be no major PowerBook announcements prior to WWDC at the earliest. I'll go out on a limb and further speculate that everyone in that camp would very much like to see a major PB intro'd at MWSF next month. The only people I can imagine NOT wanting this would be those who have very recently purchased a new PB thinking there would be no chance for a major upgrade in the near future.
Apple has publicly stated there will be "no new PowerBooks before 2005." Certainly, they would make this announcement to calm the waters and keep some volume of PB product moving. After all, if they announced that there would probably be a G5 PB in January or FH '05, sales of the current model (as priced) would certainly all but cease.
The fact that Apple had to use some laptop-sized parts just to get the G5 into an iMac, and still needed a two inch thick enclosure to make it happen (with an extra four inch chunk of space below the display and some creative ventilation, to boot), does not make many people overly optimistic that a compact laptop with a G5 processor is imminent. We have been spoiled by our thin and light PowerBooks. Can't imagine Apple putting out a 12 pound, 2 inch thick behemoth of a laptop, even if it had wheels and a retractable handle. Simple logic applied to a situation, based on pure speculation and the few hard facts available, suggests Apple does not already have a G5 laptop available simply because they can't get it the way they want it.
We could easily be wrong. Want to be wrong. Would loved to be WOW'ed in January. Not holding our breath. Hedging our bet.
To any who feel I have spoken for them out of turn, I extend my sincerest of apologies. Get over it!
Apple has publicly stated there will be "no new PowerBooks before 2005." Certainly, they would make this announcement to calm the waters and keep some volume of PB product moving. After all, if they announced that there would probably be a G5 PB in January or FH '05, sales of the current model (as priced) would certainly all but cease.
The fact that Apple had to use some laptop-sized parts just to get the G5 into an iMac, and still needed a two inch thick enclosure to make it happen (with an extra four inch chunk of space below the display and some creative ventilation, to boot), does not make many people overly optimistic that a compact laptop with a G5 processor is imminent. We have been spoiled by our thin and light PowerBooks. Can't imagine Apple putting out a 12 pound, 2 inch thick behemoth of a laptop, even if it had wheels and a retractable handle. Simple logic applied to a situation, based on pure speculation and the few hard facts available, suggests Apple does not already have a G5 laptop available simply because they can't get it the way they want it.
We could easily be wrong. Want to be wrong. Would loved to be WOW'ed in January. Not holding our breath. Hedging our bet.
To any who feel I have spoken for them out of turn, I extend my sincerest of apologies. Get over it!
Freyqq said:Don't get me started on the Geforce FX 5200... I own a Geforce FX 5200, a Geforce 3 ti200, and a Radeon 9600 xt. A PC program called 3dmark03 is a very popular video card benchmarking app.
results:
geforce 3 ti200: 850
Radeon 9600xt: 4000
Geforce FX 5200: 450
It's very sad when a 3 generation older card beats a new generation card... Unfortuantly, apple tends to use the Geforce FX 5200 in 1/2 its computers...I refuse to buy any of those models. On the bright side, the Geforce FX 5200 is probably better than the onboard video that most pcs have these days
Well, this doesn't really answer my question about the Radeon 9600's power (like I said, I think there's a Radeon 9600 that's neither PRO nor XT), but it does show the FX5200's very low numbers (I mean come on, it gets beaten by an old GeForce3?!)
spaceballl said:Clearly, that's why it is speculation... What really gets me laughing is the fact that you mock the speculation... and then take a few paragraphs to speculate
OasisNYK said:
Let me clarify.... I do not make any speculation as to
1
What kind of updated/redesigned powerbook we will see 2
When a new powerbook will be intorduced... However I do think that there will be some changes to the powerbook in Jan... So I don't know how you equate Major Upgrade to that.What I do speculate about is what possibilities could arise given current history of apple common sense about how companies can hide a new product until it is released.
I make NO Refference to a "Majore Upgrade" in Jan or anything of the sort. Just what would be common sense for apple to get done in order to keep powerbook sales from shrinking.
As far as the 9600, when ATi released the chip to OEMs, it was really vague in specifying what exactly a standard 9600 was, a 9600 Pro, etc. The rating was to be based on clockspeed, but they gave ranges and let OEMs decide where to clock these chips. But basically, they are all the same chips. The difference between the three would just be some clock speed swings either way.Yvan256 said:
-Kevin
spaceballl said:
Those numbers are benchmark numbers...not clock speed. Also, all three cards were not oem...they were from a store so they were prob at their max. All tests were done on the same computer too. The point of me tell you the benchmarks wasn't to make the 9600xt look good, just to make the Geforce 5200 look bad :/ A friend of mine with a 9800 pro got a 6000 on the same test...so there are definately better cards out there. I would imagine onboard video would rate at about 100 since that is prob their baseline. About 9600 pro and normal vs the xt...normal prob gets about a 2700 and pro gets about a 3500 (i googled 3dmark03 + 9600 + radeon).
Back to the eMac rumors
I notice today macosrumors has the new eMac G5 with a "revamped enclosure" and better quality CRT.
The "revamped enclosure" was rumoured before, and was the reason I speculate the lowest-end iMac G5 motherboard would be used.
Flare out the plastics on the bottom for a more rectangular shape (mold in handles near the bottom, as well, PLEASE), and the iMac G5 motherboard should fit nicely in the redesigned eMac.
Of course, given the below, I wonder if I shouldn't just buy one of the current eMac G4s (at $649 for combo, $799 for Superdrive eMac refurbs):
http://macintouch.com/perfpack/comparison.html
I notice today macosrumors has the new eMac G5 with a "revamped enclosure" and better quality CRT.
The "revamped enclosure" was rumoured before, and was the reason I speculate the lowest-end iMac G5 motherboard would be used.
Flare out the plastics on the bottom for a more rectangular shape (mold in handles near the bottom, as well, PLEASE), and the iMac G5 motherboard should fit nicely in the redesigned eMac.
Of course, given the below, I wonder if I shouldn't just buy one of the current eMac G4s (at $649 for combo, $799 for Superdrive eMac refurbs):
http://macintouch.com/perfpack/comparison.html
Apple rumors for 2005 . . . boring, boring, boring.
The existing product line . . . yikes.
(No, I'm not a troll -- just an Apple user/buyer still waiting for Apple to wake up from its long sleep. I joined this forum one year ago, and am still waiting for an excuse to buy a new Apple desktop.)
The existing product line . . . yikes.
(No, I'm not a troll -- just an Apple user/buyer still waiting for Apple to wake up from its long sleep. I joined this forum one year ago, and am still waiting for an excuse to buy a new Apple desktop.)
I might add companies are always comparing their music players to the iPod, but the iPod keeps on its astronomical growth, and market share. Some are even claiming the iPod is a monopoly! The iMac G5 sales have been great, and have been given much better reviews than I've seen for any Apple computer in a long while. Granted their marketing is all web based, but if you go to http://www.macsurfer.com/ every day, you'll see Apple is anything but asleep.