I'm wondering if a dying APC could have caused low power flow to my iMac, which could have been the source of the IR that I saw.
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My 2012 27-inch iMac has image retention
- Thread starter Lava Lamp Freak
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How can you tell whether it's LG or Samsung?
Is it the same as Retina MacBook Pro? LP and LSN?
Also, for those of you who are having IR issues on the second screen, can you please take a screenshot and see if it's on the screenshot. I found it pretty interesting and hard to believe!
Is it the same as Retina MacBook Pro? LP and LSN?
Also, for those of you who are having IR issues on the second screen, can you please take a screenshot and see if it's on the screenshot. I found it pretty interesting and hard to believe!
All of the iMacs are using LG panels. They're not using Samsung screens in iMacs at this time.
IR isn't something you can see in a screenshot. It happens in the panel. If you are looking at a screenshot on a screen that has IR, then you will see the IR, but it isn't a part of the screenshot. Look at the screenshot on another computer.
For anyone curious, I returned my fourth iMac in early February and bought a Dell XPS 8500 and Dell U2713HM monitor. The Dell monitor has the same horrible backlighting as the iMac, and it also has the same image retention. It actually didn't have image retention when it was new. I ran the grid test several times in the first few weeks and never saw a hint of retention. Now, it's retaining everything just like my iMacs did, and I can see the retention in pictures and websites that are certain dark shades. In addition to that the screen has recently started flickering like the refresh rate is off. As you can guess, I'm still not happy. At least I can get a hassle-free exchange sent to me in advance from Dell, but it seems pretty obvious from reading multiple forums that LG panels have widespread issues with image retention and backlighting.
I greatly miss my iMac, but I'd have a hard time buying another as long as they're using LG panels.
I greatly miss my iMac, but I'd have a hard time buying another as long as they're using LG panels.
I'll post this once again:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5455
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2807
Some people never learn
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5455
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2807
Some people never learn
Those are "worst case scenario" situations. I actually think of those documents like I do the ones that warn you about stuck/dead pixels and how those are normal To me? Not acceptable.
The difference between stuck/dead pixels and image retention is I've noticed that many, many people with image retention issues exchange their system only to have the same thing happen with their next system.
Others, like me, have owned multiple iMacs (I've had five 27" 2012 iMacs in my office, and a 2009 models for 3 years) and never once had any image retention. And I'm probably the pickiest person on the planet when it comes to that sort of thing.
So, why is this happening? Is it dirty power? Is it system location? Something is going on. I feel it. I feeeeeeeel it!
If you read through this thread and others, you will see that this is a different issue than many of us are having. The retention I was having on my iMacs was permanent and was occurring quickly. The dock was permanently retained and wouldn't go away by leaving up a white screen.
A quality panel won't show any retention at all. My current Dell shows retention, but it does fade over time, unlike the iMacs I returned. Every time I close a browser window, I can see it's ghosting on my wallpaper. The pages you linked don't help in that situation.
Not all IPS display has image retention no matter how long you display the same image, it's not plasma you know? Only unlucky few could have it, so if I could, I would exchange it right away.
So again .. why does it seems important to you to buzzkill every single issues iMac has? Downright party-pooper is a profession of yours?
Some iMac has actual, unacceptable defects beyond tolerance.
How about accept it? If your machine was indeed defective, would you keep telling people everything is fine? Would you still be
evangelist as you are today?
Not all IPS display has image retention no matter how long you display the same image, it's not plasma you know? Only unlucky few could have it, so if I could, I would exchange it right away.
So again .. why does it seems important to you to buzzkill every single issues iMac has? Downright party-pooper is a profession of yours?
Some iMac has actual, unacceptable defects beyond tolerance.
How about accept it? If your machine was indeed defective, would you keep telling people everything is fine? Would you still be
last paragraph is a good point! I agree!
Happy customers are proud of a non-defective iMac, should I accept IR or light bleeding on my expensive panel?
Why Apple Care Protection Plan exists? Apple rolls the cost to improve the existing poor quality control to the customers....you and I pay for extended warranty plan and everybody is happy...however, QC will remain poor, Apple will continue to sell extended warranty and China will become richer from your and my pocket!
Who really "cares" for your problem? Apple? QC? You.....
Not all IPS display has image retention no matter how long you display the same image, it's not plasma you know? Only unlucky few could have it, so if I could, I would exchange it right away.
So again .. why does it seems important to you to buzzkill every single issues iMac has? Downright party-pooper is a profession of yours?
Some iMac has actual, unacceptable defects beyond tolerance.
How about accept it? If your machine was indeed defective, would you keep telling people everything is fine? Would you still be
These are not defects, these are the state of the technology. A dead pixel is a defect. Negligible warmth in the lower half of screen is not. Image retention is not, if it can be fixed by Apple's advice. If it can't be fixed, then it's a defect. But you can't say it's a "defect" without understanding the limitations of your technology. A car that that can't get 100 mpg is not defective.
It is only the "state of the technology" when dealing with certain LG panels. We went through this same thing with the Retina MBP. Side by side, the one with an LG panel would show retention within minutes of something being on the screen, while the one with a Samsung panel would never retain the image. Also, I haven't heard people with the 21.5-inch iMac complaining about this problem at all, unlike those with the 27-inch iMac and rMBP with an LG panel.
I'm using a 20-inch Dell with an IPS LG panel now -- the same panel as the old 20-inch Apple Cinema Display -- and it will not retain an image. Ever. I can leave the same image up on the screen all day and it won't retain it. I also used a 23-inch and 24-inch Dell and neither of them had the issue either. [Edit: I just reread some of my earlier posts and realized that the 23-inch and 24-inch Dell displays I tried did have image retention as well. I had forgot about that.]
On my 27-inch iMacs, by the time I finished typing out a response on the forum and closed the window, I'd see the ghost of the window on my wallpaper. The dock was permanently retained. When I was watching movies, I could see the dock icons. Again, this was on multiple iMacs. I posted some pictures of that earlier in this thread. Trying the method you linked to earlier would not work. Leaving a white screen up over night would not make the retention fade, on multiple iMacs. I leave my computers set to a 5-minute screen timeout. The problem was happening during normal use, on multiple iMacs.
I had image retention with multiple iMacs, a 27-inch ACD, and a Dell U2713HM. So call it whatever you want, but they don't all do it and therefore I don't think it should be shrugged off or minimized as just the "state of the technology." If I pay the same price as someone else for an iMac, I shouldn't have to accept an issue that doesn't exist in the other person's iMac just because of variances in the technology produced by a specific vendor.
Edit: Here is a video that shows what I experienced. This isn't my video, but it mirrors what I saw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdhIA8-UIRQ
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I totally agree with your opinion. Simply, let me understand you, 2012 21.5 inch iMac display isn't manufactured by LG?
Strange definition. You made it up yourself?
If image retention is the limitation of IPS technology, then why only SOME of the screen would have it?
My home iMac is not experiencing IR but some iMac and rMBP on my workplace have it? Why?
Some iMac has dirty clouded screen after some time and some not.. Does it seem to be a limitation to you?
When some unlucky ones get screwed and the rest is not, then it's not the limit of the technology. It's called defects.
When my car can't get 100 mpg while other identical cars could ... Then my car is also DEFECTIVE.
I believe the 21.5-inch iMac also uses an LG panel. I'm just not aware of there being a problem with image retention like there is with the 27-inch iMacs, which makes me believe there is a problem specifically with the 27-inch panel.
Then indeed, that is a defect. I agree wholeheartedly. Sorry you are seeing such problems on 4 iMacs and a new Dell screen. That is highly weird. I feel bad for you man.
My new 2012 doesn't have it thankfully. It has some bottom yellowishness and the black isn't 100% black... but then what is? The remaining 99% machine is top-notch, so i'll take that.
At the time I returned my iMac earlier this year, I checked the only 27-inch iMac that was on display at the Apple Store and the only one on display at Best Buy, and both had retention. All I had to do was pull up a solid grey screen and I could see it.
I know there are good panels, but I think this is/was a bigger problem than some people believe. I haven't looked at an iMac lately to see if the latest panels are better. I'm hesitant to try another just because of the bad experiences I had, and honestly, I don't really need the large screen for anything besides playing games, and I don't do that often. I'll be buying a 21.5-inch iMac soon. I'm using a Windows 8 PC now and I can't wait to get back to the iMac.
Have you ever thought of buying a "full" BTO Mac mini and use your own monitor or HDTV? If you are a home-user and play few games, HD4000 or 5000 (after upcoming update) graphics and i7 mobile CPU will cover your needs.....your opinion?
Have you ever thought of buying a "full" BTO Mac mini and use your own monitor or HDTV? If you are a home-user and play few games, HD4000 or 5000 (after upcoming update) graphics and i7 mobile CPU will cover your needs.....your opinion?
The highest end BTO Mac Mini might only be equal with high end 21.5" iMac at best.
If you want something high end on graphic department, I'm afraid 27" iMac with 675MX/680MX is the only option, also there is this consideration:
BTO high end Mac Mini (i7 + 8GB RAM) + 1440p 27" display + decent keyboard mouse might end you with $2000 bill
Or
High end 27" iMac (i5, 675MX, 8GB RAM) with display, keyboard and mouse included and costs you the same but you enjoy way faster graphic performance.
Surprisingly enough, iMac is hard to beat of a deal, the best bang for the buck of all Mac computers. Might I say almost just as "cheap" as custom built PC of the same spec.
I love Macs, but at this point in time the iMac is easily beaten in terms of price->performance, if you shop around. Heck, you can buy a 27" IPS/PLS 1440p monitor for under $300. That leaves you with a LOT of money to build a very fast PC.
Now, in terms of aesthetics, does anything beat an iMac? Probably not.
That's arguable .. a $300 Korean display on eBay leaves you a lot to worry about. Not to mention aesthetically horrid.
I wasn't talking about Thunderbolt Display because I don't like paying $999 for display with limited functionality either.
I would go with Dell, Samsung, Viewsonic or Asus. Roughly costs $600 - $800 and you have assured quality, warranty, and good design, especially Dell. Many of them has USB 3.0 hub too so that helps with connectivity.
Well, personally, I wouldn't spend that kind of money on the same panel from Dell/Samsung/Viewsonic or Asus. They're all the same Samsung PLS panel underneath! When you can spend $279 on a panel, why would you spend $800? And what has Korea got to do with anything? They're all made in China, anyway. Why would you spend $800 on a screen made in China? Right? Same argument.
Here's an example of a great deal:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matte-FREE-...Monitors&hash=item4d0d1e678e&afepn=5337259887
Heck, if you want a guaranteed pixel-perfect one, they have another link for a little bit more:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Perfect-Pix...2506?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item4ac52ae4aa
And come on, the display housing/stand isn't that ugly. I'd just stick it on a mount, anyway...
So, to each his own, but I know quite a few people with these $260 PLS 1440p monitors, and they all work great.
Aesthetics, I agree with, but we're talking about price/performance ratio, and nowadays the iMac is HANDILY beaten.
It was notoriously known as Korean 1440p display on eBay, wasn't it? Catleap Yamakazi or something was the first brand to sell it.
Well maybe I will consider one when the time comes to upgrade my PC. Meanwhile I still love my Dell U2713HM. Three years default warranty means a lot for my peace of mind.
I got it for $649 so I couldn't complain much. The "nameless" 1440p display might be $300 but the greatest plus on my Dell is that it has USB 3.0 hub and multiple input ports which greatly helps simplify my setup.
My gaming PC and MBA now connected through one simple monitor I even consider ditch my iMac instead
Because a monitor is a lot more than just a panel. There's a reason they're cheap, as many customers learn the hard way. Cut-rate power supplies, questionable inverters, poor materials in the backlighting, B-bin panels with higher than average defect rates, and minimal customer support are all part of the game.
For the obligatory car analogy, buying a Lamborghini engine and dropping it in a Fiat doesn't make a Fiat a Lamborghini. Surrounding a good panel with crap electronics is good enough for most people, but don't pretend there's equivalence.
There is a huge difference between the $800 one and the $300 one. It might be fair to say that the stripped-down version offers better value because you don't care as much about what was stripped out, but buying the B-grade reject panels at a low price and doing manual binning does not make them equal.
There are only about five viable manufacturers. Even Eizo's panels come from factories in China and Korea, but the $300 generic is no Eizo.
It was notoriously known as Korean 1440p display on eBay, wasn't it? Catleap Yamakazi or something was the first brand to sell it.
Well maybe I will consider one when the time comes to upgrade my PC. Meanwhile I still love my Dell U2713HM. Three years default warranty means a lot for my peace of mind.
I got it for $649 so I couldn't complain much. The "nameless" 1440p display might be $300 but the greatest plus on my Dell is that it has USB 3.0 hub and multiple input ports which greatly helps simplify my setup.
My gaming PC and MBA now connected through one simple monitor I even consider ditch my iMac instead
I've no doubt the Dells are nice monitors, and of course you have Dell behind it. But there are alternatives, is all I'm saying.
And yes, I believe the Catleap stuff was first. My neighbor is using the 27" Yamakasi/Catleap panel, and loves it.Your obligatory analogy isn't necessarily valid, though. After all, many people couldn't give a toss about the casing around the Samsung panel, and it IS a Samsung PLS panel. With a car, the body/design is the thing that catches the eye more than anything. Bah, not going to argue the analogy any further. It's a completely fault analogy.
Also, you mention "reject" panels, where there's no evidence to suggest that fact. I've seen numerous panels from these Korean sellers, and they all work absolutely great. And let's be honest, the iMac 27" panels aren't exactly brilliant, are they, hence the threads on bleed/IR etc etc. I've not seen ANY evidence these Korean panels have poor inverters, power supplies etc. Source?
It IS, however, possible to say that all these non-Korean products are just marked up for the US audience, hence the Dells etc. Now I spent over $400 on my Eizo FS2333, and that's just a 23" 1080p LCD. But there was a reason for that: You simply can't buy a better 23" PLS panel for gaming/quality. There are no Korean alternatives that I'm aware of.
But when it comes to the 27" PLS panels, they're all the same manufacturer - Samsung, and quite frankly unless the aesthetics and USB hub is worth - what? at least $400 more? $500? - you're better off saving your money and buying a $270 panel on eBay. And yes, they are VERY good. In fact, I've not seen one with any defects of any sort (aside from the obligatory glow/slight bleed all IPS/PLS panels exhibit).
But, like I said, to each his own. After all, I did buy an iMac.
It's not just the casing. I'm not talking about bodywork. The panel is not what makes a great monitor great.
The analogy failed on you because like assuming the panel is the monitor, you're assuming the engine is the car, neglecting the chassis, transmission, suspension, and all the other pieces. Two cars sharing the same engine can be very different in characteristics, including price.
That is literally their business model. This is my industry. Production capacity is reserved for major OEMs, who reserve all A-grade capacity at the factory. B-grade panels are then sold at a much lower price to these off-brand manufacturers, and they manually bin them to pick out the ones that are good. That's why you see them consistently offer their "standard" and their "pixel perfect" versions of the same product when your more mainstream brand wouldn't be able to differentiate in their production process.
There's a huge sample bias in your assertion.
Tear one down. Not only will you see it visually, but you can compare the parts for yourself. You do get what you pay for.
Like I said, you may be happy with something that's 80% as good for 50% of the price, but that is not remotely the equivalent to: "it's the same panel so it's just as good".
Only if you don't understand how the display industry works, like this: