My experience with the new iPad Pro (9.7") coming from Surface Pro 4

[rowspaxe]

At the end of the day, the reasons I kept the Surface are a combination of decent design and the ability to run what is for all intents and purposes legacy software at this point.

Get back to me when someone starts replacing "legacy apps". I am not down on ios apps, but nothing on ios will be competing with "pro apps"...er..."legacy apps"...anytime soon. Remember, just 2 years ago the desktop was legacy! And even these apps were released on ios--who wants to be doing work in a complicated video compositor/editor or sound daw without a mouse (or trackpad). No thanks! Love the IPP--its just gimped in certain ways.

The larger question is hybridization. The hybrid form factor will continue to shrink. Whether MS can make windows more mobile like is an open question. I personally am surprised how little progress has been made

 

[Osty]

Surface has a file system = computer.............Pro 9.7 does not = tablet

Your dictionary is a little off. Both devices have programmable CPUs, memory, storage and IO therefore both are computers. The difference is down to form-factor (hybrid vs slate) and software (mobile vs traditional desktop metaphor). Besides, both have file systems - iOS just has more restrictions around it in user land.

Android is mobile but it give your file system access, go figure.

We live in crazy times where pigeon-holing something based on a trite observation is meaningless.

 

[Booji]

Your dictionary is a little off. Both devices have programmable CPUs, memory, storage and IO therefore both are computers. The difference is down to form-factor (hybrid vs slate) and software (mobile vs traditional desktop metaphor). Besides, both have file systems - iOS just has more restrictions around it in user land.

Android is mobile but it give your file system access, go figure.

We live in crazy times where pigeon-holing something based on a trite observation is meaningless.

So many people are stuck in the old paradigms, but then again that is what change is about. Not everyone gets it at first, and there will be early and late adopters.
[doublepost=1466395556][/doublepost]

Get back to me when someone starts replacing "legacy apps". I am not down on ios apps, but nothing on ios will be competing with "pro apps"...er..."legacy apps"...anytime soon. Remember, just 2 years ago the desktop was legacy! And even these apps were released on ios--who wants to be doing work in a complicated video compositor/editor or sound daw without a mouse (or trackpad). No thanks! Love the IPP--its just gimped in certain ways.

The larger question is hybridization. The hybrid form factor will continue to shrink. Whether MS can make windows more mobile like is an open question. I personally am surprised how little progress has been made

It's true - while MS tried to take it to a big-bang revolution, so far its been pretty much a failure. Apple is taking the slow, evolutionary process and it seems to be working better. As mobile platforms gradually take on more and more of the tasks that were done by a full-feature OS, one day we will wake up and realize we don't need it anymore.

 

[sracer]

So many people are stuck in the old paradigms, but then again that is what change is about. Not everyone gets it at first, and there will be early and late adopters.
[doublepost=1466395556][/doublepost]

It's true - while MS tried to take it to a big-bang revolution, so far its been pretty much a failure. Apple is taking the slow, evolutionary process and it seems to be working better. As mobile platforms gradually take on more and more of the tasks that were done by a full-feature OS, one day we will wake up and realize we don't need it anymore.

While I agree with the sentiments that you expressed, I have to say that Apple is being a bit too leisurely in their slow, evolutionary process. There are a few iPad Pro-specific changes that Apple could've made now that aren't revolutionary and in keeping with their vision for iPads, but instead... emoji-palooza.

 

[Night Spring]

There are a few iPad Pro-specific changes that Apple could've made now that aren't revolutionary and in keeping with their vision for iPads, but instead... emoji-palooza.

This would indicate that Apple's target audience are the people who would appreciate the emoji-palooza, and not care so much about "pro" features for the iPad. Whether or not they are right about making that their target audience, time will tell!

 

[rowspaxe]

While I agree with the sentiments that you expressed, I have to say that Apple is being a bit too leisurely in their slow, evolutionary process. There are a few iPad Pro-specific changes that Apple could've made now that aren't revolutionary and in keeping with their vision for iPads, but instead...

I don't know if its "liesurely pace" or reluctance. Imho--the future lies with some sort of hybrid device, but this has not been Apple's vision--so they just sort of released a gimped device to test the market. Nothing wrong with apples deliberate pace at this time as long as MS can't extend their vision of hybridization until windows can be made more mobile--not just the ui, but power management and robustness as well. This could go on for a while

 

[Night Spring]

the future lies with some sort of hybrid device

Perhaps. But I believe Apple's plan for how to get there is to keep slowly improving iOS and its ecosystem until it is as feature rich as desktop systems are now, then adding accessories, like keyboard, stylus, and maybe eventually a mouse, for people who want them. It's not like Microsoft is having all that success persuading developers to write touch-optimized apps for their hybrid platform. I would love to have a single device that could be a tablet or phone when I'm on the go, then when I'm at a desk, pop it into a dock and have a full keyboard, monitor, and pointing device. I think both Apple and Microsofft are working towards that goal, but taking different approaches to how to get there.

 

[Cptnodegard]

Get back to me when someone starts replacing "legacy apps". I am not down on ios apps, but nothing on ios will be competing with "pro apps"...er..."legacy apps"...anytime soon. Remember, just 2 years ago the desktop was legacy! And even these apps were released on ios--who wants to be doing work in a complicated video compositor/editor or sound daw without a mouse (or trackpad). No thanks! Love the IPP--its just gimped in certain ways.

The larger question is hybridization. The hybrid form factor will continue to shrink. Whether MS can make windows more mobile like is an open question. I personally am surprised how little progress has been made

Once upon a time I needed a desktop computer for creating PDF forms. Then PDF Office came out, which is not only more user friendly than the software I used on desktop, but also faster (/has less issues with large PDF files than an i5-4670k PC) AND has some nifty automation that the desktop software lacks.

In the last year, OCR seems to be the part of my workflow that is just now becoming more common on iOS.

To name a few examples of actual legacy software made redundant by iOS apps in the last couple of years. I think you have a notion in your head that it's the software you use that qualifies as this type of app.

I see this request a lot and I'm really wondering what the advantage of this Mac base would be as opposed to having a MacBook and an iPad. Is it to save money? Considering you'd only be losing the cost of the display of the MacBook, and considering Apple would have to charge more money for the new design and manufacturing of this more complicated detachable system, I think you would probably break even. Best case scenario at MOST you might save a couple hundred, but definitely not the cost of a whole device. You're still buying two devices, only one of them is gimped because without your iPad it's a paper weight. Even assuming your iPad is ALWAYS with you, having to pull it out and attach it every time you want to do a simple quick Mac task is not exactly the kind of user experience that I think Apple is looking to give. Why not just spend a couple hundred more and have an actual functional MacBook that doesn't always require attaching an iPad, which will probably make for a clunky laptop experience anyway? I think that would be Apple's perspective.

1: Total package would likely be smaller and lighter, unless you're comparing to bringing a Macbook.

2: Shared resources. USB C charging, shared battery(!), USB ports, display out, access to each other's files and other continuity features.

3: If done correctly, there's no reason the iPad couldn't have the base's display as an app inside iOS. Split view macOS/iOS, copy/paste between, etc.

4: macOS app with Apple Pencil. Nuff said.

5: Dock base to external monitor and it's not dependent on its iPad counterpart.

and probably a lot more I'm forgetting atm.

 

[rowspaxe]

Once upon a time I needed a desktop computer for creating PDF forms. Then PDF Office came out, which is not only more user friendly than the software I used on desktop, but also faster (/has less issues with large PDF files than an i5-4670k PC) AND has some nifty automation that the desktop software lacks.

In the last year, OCR seems to be the part of my workflow that is just now becoming more common on iOS.

To name a few examples of actual legacy software made redundant by iOS apps in the last couple of years. I think you have a notion in your head that it's the software you use that qualifies as this type of app.

I have a notion in my head that high end applications will not be showing up on ios--ever. Why? Because pro apps require a pointing device, usb media and a file finder. The possible exception to this rule is graphics apps, where a strategy of working with a collection of simpler ios apps might replace a pro app-like photoshop. But this is not going to happen on a large scale because part of being a pro app is saving to a pro app file format.
yes, small cadre of brand enthusiasts will attempt to defy these realities...but most wont care

 

[Night Spring]

I have a notion in my head that high end applications will not be showing up on ios--ever. Why? Because pro apps require a pointing device, usb media and a file finder.

Could you specify what apps you consider to be pro apps? I know for word processing, I don't need a pointing device (keyboard shortcuts work fine), nor do I need USB (Dropbox works fine), and I use search functions in Dropbox or FileBrowser to find files.

 

[rowspaxe]

Could you specify what apps you consider to be pro apps? I know for word processing, I don't need a pointing device (keyboard shortcuts work fine), nor do I need USB (Dropbox works fine), and I use search functions in Dropbox or FileBrowser to find files.

I think: maya, zbrush, mudbox, photoshop, (real) office, illustrator, premier, aftereffects, ableton live, reason, protools...I get it that you don't need a pointing device and see yourself as some sort of pointerless vanguard, but i dont see it happening

 

[Night Spring]

I think: maya, zbrush, mudbox, photoshop, (real) office, illustrator, premier, aftereffects, ableton live, reason, protools...I get it that you don't need a pointing device and see yourself as some sort of pointerless vanguard, but i dont see it happening

Some of those I don't know, and the ones I do recognize seem to be drawing / picture manipulating apps. I mean, if your profession is illustrations/graphic design, I can see why you need pointing device, but a lot of other professions can get work done without pointing device. It's not like those professions are on a leading edge of something, just that some types of work have never needed pointing devices, and never will.

 

[subjonas]

Deleted. Accidentally posted

 

[LCPepper]

I am actually thinking of selling my rMBP and iPad Pro 9.7" and going for a Surface Pro 4...

I need something hybrid, that is predominantly desktop workflow, and when needs be, can annotate a PDF nicely or accept a quick jot/ sketch.

The iOS 10 updates from WWDC were just absolutely embarrassing, and failed in all sense to make the workflow any better on the iPad Pro; the only worth thing, Split Screen Safari... Why could they not have done that for apps across the board?

Anyway, time will tell as to what I do.

 

[masotime]

I need something hybrid, that is predominantly desktop workflow, and when needs be, can annotate a PDF nicely or accept a quick jot/ sketch.

You should buy what you need. If iOS is unable to support your requirements, I'd support you all the way in getting what works.

I love my iDevices, but I recognize that different people have different needs. Don't let peer pressure influence you - if it works better for you, just get it. It's not your problem that Apple devices don't do what you need.

 

[sracer]

I am actually thinking of selling my rMBP and iPad Pro 9.7" and going for a Surface Pro 4...

I need something hybrid, that is predominantly desktop workflow, and when needs be, can annotate a PDF nicely or accept a quick jot/ sketch.

The iOS 10 updates from WWDC were just absolutely embarrassing, and failed in all sense to make the workflow any better on the iPad Pro; the only worth thing, Split Screen Safari... Why could they not have done that for apps across the board?

Anyway, time will tell as to what I do.

I most definitely agree with your disappointment regarding iOS 10 and WWDC, but I don't know if the Surface Pro 4 is the right response. You would be swapping an excellent notebook and excellent tablet for a device that makes a decent notebook and poor tablet. Is a converged device THAT important to you?

I have owned (and still own) various Surface devices. They do "desktop-y" things pretty well but "tablet-y" things not so much. I still use the Surface on occasion when it does "Pro" things (like presenting using PowerPoint) better than the iPP.

I've recently switched from a 11" MBA + iPad Air 2 combo (to supplement my iMac) to a 12.9" iPad Pro. Obviously because it is an iPad, it is a great tablet. It handles SOME notebook tasks fairly well, though I've had to re-think some tasks to better fit with it.

Until Apple does something substantial with iOS, the iPP will never fully replace my notebook (it'll never replace my iMac). But in the meantime I've been using Jump Desktop to access my iMac from my iPP. That has worked out pretty well. My son and DIL gave me a Citrix X1 mouse for father's day. Using the mouse on the iPP w/Jump Desktop to access my iMac is absolutely terrific!

I'm in a similar boat as you, looking to converge mobile devices. I think that the iPad Pro establishes a good hardware platform for a converged device, but iOS is lacking and is the weak link.

Just something to add to the things to consider.

 

[subjonas]

1: Total package would likely be smaller and lighter, unless you're comparing to bringing a Macbook.

2: Shared resources. USB C charging, shared battery(!), USB ports, display out, access to each other's files and other continuity features.

3: If done correctly, there's no reason the iPad couldn't have the base's display as an app inside iOS. Split view macOS/iOS, copy/paste between, etc.

4: macOS app with Apple Pencil. Nuff said.

5: Dock base to external monitor and it's not dependent on its iPad counterpart.

and probably a lot more I'm forgetting atm.

Thanks for the response. Here are my thoughts.

1. Yes I did have in mind the retina MacBook since I think portability is a key goal here. So I think saving the weight and space of the rMB screen is very nominal compared to the functionality lost of losing the screen.

2+3. I may not have understood completely each of the things you listed, but I think I got the gist. I'll just say, with continuity and cloud apps and services, it seems Apple and other companies/developers are going to a lot of trouble to create hardware/software ecosystems that make each standalone device work seamlessly with other standalone devices, without the need to make a modular "piece" of a device such as a Mac base. In other words, I think they want to accomplish the same goal of efficient productivity everywhere you go, but without compromising each device's own integrity, if that makes sense. Granted they still have a ways to go, but I just think a Mac base seems far from the path that Apple is headed down. And I personally agree that there are probably better solutions.

4. As a digital artist who uses Mac art applications, I would actually love for the iPad to natively attach to a Mac for pencil input (simply because Apple doesn't offer a standalone Mac drawing solution). However I don't think Apple would make a Mac base just for this.

5. If you were talking about the Mac base sharing (i.e. using) the iPad's file system, that means it wouldn't do any good to hook it up to an external monitor, because it's not a computer on its own. And if it has its own file system then yes it could hook up to a monitor. But then it's basically its own computer again... And again, I don't think attaching an iPad to it solves all that much that can't be solved wirelessly via the aforementioned methods.

Btw I wanted a Mac base at one point too. But as I thought more about it, I started to believe it was one of those things that sounded like an ideal solution at first, but in reality it didn't solve that much at all and caused other problems. Just my perspective.

 

[rowspaxe]

Btw I wanted a Mac base at one point too. But as I thought more about it, I started to believe it was one of those things that sounded like an ideal solution at first, but in reality it didn't solve that much at all and caused other problems. Just my perspective.

I think if Apple implemented a surfacebook like ios/mac os hybrid--it would be a huge hit

 

[callea]

my surface 4 is an outstanding laptop, my ipad pro 12.9 is an outstanding tablet. neither can replace the other

ive also had zero issues with my surface

IPad Pro + MacBook Pro would be a terrific combo: the best tablet and the best laptop.

Surface Pro is a mediocre laptop and a bad tablet.

 

[xaqt93]

This will be a quick experience for me. I love the iPad Pro. I actually sold my MacBook Pro (2012) for the iPad Pro and the screen by it self was such an upgrade. Personally, the only thing that I miss is Xcode, but I have an iMac that I can use if I need to do some actual work. other than that, Microsoft Office is just a perfect combination for the iPad. I prefer to use Pages and Keynote, but I use excel for my expenses. I freaking love it and I will definitely keep this as my main computer from now on. definitely better then what I using. Haha.

 

[rowspaxe]

Surface Pro is a mediocre laptop and a bad tablet.

Shouldn't you upper case this to add more force to your arguement? Oh wait, there is no arguement here--just a rant.
Actually--while there have been some issues--SP4 a pretty great machine. And there is the Vaio Z which is even far more awesome.

 

[subjonas]

I think if Apple implemented a surfacebook like ios/mac os hybrid--it would be a huge hit

It should be noted the surface book is fundamentally different than the proposed Mac base. With Windows the SB is one computer with a single desktop OS. Docked, the SB has the same functionality as it does in tablet mode, only enhanced with keyboard/tracked and more power (and battery). It doesn't switch the whole OS like the proposed Mac base would, basically making it two computers joined at the hip. But in my opinion the SB isn't a great example to look to because it doesn't bring a great tablet experience because of the poor battery life. I think the only real strength it brings to the table is pen support on desktop applications, like the surface pro but with more power.

 

[rowspaxe]

It should be noted the surface book is fundamentally different than the proposed Mac base. With Windows the SB is one computer with a single desktop OS. Docked, the SB has the same functionality as it does in tablet mode, only enhanced with keyboard/tracked and more power (and battery). It doesn't switch the whole OS like the proposed Mac base would, basically making it two computers joined at the hip. But in my opinion the SB isn't a great example to look to because it doesn't bring a great tablet experience because of the poor battery life. I think the only real strength it brings to the table is pen support on desktop applications, like the surface pro but with more power.

Duh, my post said:
"I think if Apple implemented a surfacebook like ios/mac os hybrid--it would be a huge hit"
I am obviously referring to a daul Apple os with the form factor of the surfaceBook.

 

[Speechless]

I purchased my 12" Pro back in December. I have never owned an iPad before, but wanted one for my own. It took a lot for me to get used to it. I thought about selling it a lot of times because I just never thought I was using it to its full capability. I have an iPhone 6s+ and Retina MacBook Pro, so I had to remind myself to use the iPad from time to time.

Recently, I've been using it like crazy! The pencil is just freaking awesome and I love taking notes. The productivity apps are amazing as well. I'm using it more and more by the day for leisure stuff. It's the PERFECT media device as well. I mean, come on, those speakers alone are just fantastic.