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ACL found

did the hardware test. all hardware is fine.

Im still getting so much freezing and crashing. its as bad as vista.

right now my mail is frozen. I have to restart to get it back as force quit isnt doing anything.

still wondering what this means:

I keep getting this when I click repair disk permissions:

ACL found but not expected on "Applications/Utilities".
ACL found but not expected on "Application".
ACL found but not expected on "Library".

any help is GREATLY appreciated. I guess Ill call up apple tomorrow and try to figure out what the hell is wrong.

I find a lot of stuff goes wonky whenever time machine is doing its thing in the background. although it seems like everything goes wonky at random times.....

is part of the new security upgrade that Apple did a while back. That is not your problem.

Sometimes the Hardware disk does not find a problem. I agree that it could be bad RAM. Try taking out your RAM, if it works fine you have found the problem.

Hope this helps.
 
Reinstalls are the last thing to try after all else fails.

Why? It's not like Windows.

OS X Installs in like 12 minutes flat on a Mac Pro?

12 Minutes to find out if you have a hardware or software problem?

It takes more time to do a hardware test on the install cd!!!
 
Why? It's not like Windows.

OS X Installs in like 12 minutes flat on a Mac Pro?

12 Minutes to find out if you have a hardware or software problem?

It takes more time to do a hardware test on the install cd!!!

Exactly, OSX is not like Windows. It doesn't auto-hose and require periodic wiped hard drives. Frequent kernel panics are virtually always caused by hardware issues. Reinstalling OSX to fix a hardware problem is not only an obvious waste of time, it's a substantial risk. If the Mac kernel panics during the reinstall process, which happens often enough, then you now have an unbootable Mac for your trouble. This is not progress.
 
Exactly, OSX is not like Windows. It doesn't auto-hose and require periodic wiped hard drives. Frequent kernel panics are virtually always caused by hardware issues. Reinstalling OSX to fix a hardware problem is not only an obvious waste of time, it's a substantial risk. If the Mac kernel panics during the reinstall process, which happens often enough, then you now have an unbootable Mac for your trouble. This is not progress.

Absolutely untrue. Anything that tries to access the machine directly can cause a Kernel Panic. If you think that's not true... go over and visit the Parallels support forum... many of their earlier iterations would cause ANY mac to Kernel Panic... and that was ONLY SOFTWARE... however, that point is moot as we aren't talking Kernel Panics here...

The OP stated that he had freezes, and lockups... no mention of Kernel Panics.

There is still no need to wipe the drive... to ensure that there is no software anomaly going on... simply set up a new OS X install so that you can still boot into the old one if there is no change... a "fresh" clean install to see if there wasn't some bit of runaway code that was causing conflicts, issues, etc.
 
Absolutely untrue. Anything that tries to access the machine directly can cause a Kernel Panic. ... many of their earlier iterations would cause ANY mac to Kernel Panic... and that was ONLY SOFTWARE...
I think you misread him.

He didn't say software *couldn't* cause a kernel panic, only that it was more likely to be hardware related troubles.

It is.
 
I think you misread him.

He didn't say software *couldn't* cause a kernel panic, only that it was more likely to be hardware related troubles.

It is.

I didn't misunderstand him... I know exactly what he said and meant. My point was that a 12 minute fresh install is a good way to *UNDENIABLY* rule out ANY software problems.

You can spend days and days trying to sort out hardware issues... how many different parts are there in a Mac Pro?

You can spend 12 minutes and completely eliminate any software issues... then move on to the hardware troubleshooting.

Always eliminate the most obvious / easiest things to eliminate first.
 
I didn't misunderstand him... I know exactly what he said and meant. My point was that a 12 minute fresh install is a good way to *UNDENIABLY* rule out ANY software problems.

You can spend days and days trying to sort out hardware issues... how many different parts are there in a Mac Pro?

You can spend 12 minutes and completely eliminate any software issues... then move on to the hardware troubleshooting.

Always eliminate the most obvious / easiest things to eliminate first.

Yes, you did misunderstand me, entirely. I was clear to say that "frequent kernel panics are virtually always caused by hardware issues," which is what I meant, which is why I said it. And I said it because it is true.

You are also confused about the terminology apparently. There's no such thing as a "fresh install." The choices are "erase and install" or "archive and install." It's completely unclear which one you are recommending, which makes this advice doubly risky.
 
Yes, you did misunderstand me, entirely. I was clear to say that "frequent kernel panics are virtually always caused by hardware issues," which is what I meant, which is why I said it. And I said it because it is true.

You are also confused about the terminology apparently. There's no such thing as a "fresh install." The choices are "erase and install" or "archive and install." It's completely unclear which one you are recommending, which makes this advice doubly risky.

By fresh install I simply meant exactly what the words said: A fresh install of software. It IS possible to have multiple bootable OS X folders on a single machine, you know. Always a good idea for troubleshooting. On my own personal Mac Pro... I have a "virgin install" that has ZERO third-party software, drivers, etc. on a stock install config... just so I can reboot into that version of the OS if need be to check for any strange things that might be happening on my stock machine.

By fresh install I wasn't outlining the actual choices from the freakin' install cd. I think the OP is smart enough to figure out which choice would work best for his own uses.

Heck... you can even use BootCamp assistant to partition the primary drive with a 10 Gig Partition, format it as GUID with Disk Utility, and install a "Clean" install on that... to have a fresh install to boot into if trouble on the primary install begins to creep in.
 
Again, confusing advice and easily misinterpreted. When you say "software" do you not mean the OS?

If people ask, I think it's safe to assume that they don't know. This comes from the experience of answering questions on these boards for many years, and also from teaching Mac classes. Everything you suggest is possible, but I think generally is overkill at least and dangerous at worst.

I specifically recommend against reinstalling OSX in cases of frequent kernel panics, freezes or lock-ups because they are so overwhelmingly caused by hardware issues, particularly bad RAM, and because efforts to reinstall OSX on a Mac with a hardware fault can easily result in an unbootable Mac. We quite often hear these tales of woe on these boards.

I would never recommend a reinstall of OSX without having walked someone through the basic diagnostic steps first, like unplugging any peripherals they might have or asking about software they might have installed recently. Recommending a reinstall, especially without specifically advising which type, is very risky advice IMO.
 
Again, confusing advice and easily misinterpreted. When you say "software" do you not mean the OS?

If people ask, I think it's safe to assume that they don't know. This comes from the experience of answering questions on these boards for many years, and also from teaching Mac classes. Everything you suggest is possible, but I think generally is overkill at least and dangerous at worst.

I specifically recommend against reinstalling OSX in cases of frequent kernel panics, freezes or lock-ups because they are so overwhelmingly caused by hardware issues, particularly bad RAM, and because efforts to reinstall OSX on a Mac with a hardware fault can easily result in an unbootable Mac. We quite often hear these tales of woe on these boards.

I would never recommend a reinstall of OSX without having walked someone through the basic diagnostic steps first, like unplugging any peripherals they might have or asking about software they might have installed recently. Recommending a reinstall, especially without specifically advising which type, is very risky advice IMO.

Well, thank you for your opinion. We'll have to agree to disagree.
 
whoaaaaa. big fights going on here!

anyways, have to say that the person who said install should be the last resort wins. Im saddened to say that Im still getting random crashes. Once again I gave myself false hope. the only not so random part is transferring through the network from another computer. that seems to almost always crash certain programs. mainly mail. I was thinking maybe its my software raid. but it doesn't seem to be that way as the crashes happen no matter what drive I transfer too.

I've booked an appointment at the genius bar saturday. hopefully they can figure this out.
 
yep. I've tried every configuration. nothing works for very long. today I had 4 or 5 crashes and at one point I had to reset the computer twice just to get it to boot!

genious didnt help to much. basically they said send it back. so thats what im doing tomorrow!
 
thedommer:

I had a problem like this with my PowerMac, the RAM was fine, but the logic board was bad. The Mac Store repaired it for me (free w/ Apple Care) and it hasn't crashed since!
 
another update for you all.

apple is sending me a new computer. sucks that it takes 8 - 10 days. However I get to keep my old one until that arrives so I should be ok until then.

another interesting thing that happened with my messed up mac. I shut it down and then I heard a noise outside my window as the local gabage truck was firing up its motor to crush some garbage. They make quite a loud noise. Then I realized that it wasn't coming from outside. The macs fans were flying so fast I was expecting the mac to either blow up or take off. I had to unplug it to stop the fans. I laughed because it was kinda rediculous and I know my new one is in the mail.
 
whoaaaaa. big fights going on here!

anyways, have to say that the person who said install should be the last resort wins. Im saddened to say that Im still getting random crashes. Once again I gave myself false hope. the only not so random part is transferring through the network from another computer. that seems to almost always crash certain programs. mainly mail. I was thinking maybe its my software raid. but it doesn't seem to be that way as the crashes happen no matter what drive I transfer too.

I've booked an appointment at the genius bar saturday. hopefully they can figure this out.

I can't hardly transfer files from my Mac 10.5.2 to my XP machine over the network without the transfer freezing either! It is really getting on my nerves. 10.4 never did this - not sure if that is coincidence or not. 3 routers do this. When the network freezes though I don't have other appls freeze but I generally have to reboot to get the frozen transfer window to close.

Have you tried disconnecting your Mac from the internet/network and see how that works? If your network transferring consistantly causes chain freezing maybe it is related to the source of your problems?
 
I can't hardly transfer files from my Mac 10.5.2 to my XP machine over the network without the transfer freezing either! It is really getting on my nerves. 10.4 never did this - not sure if that is coincidence or not. 3 routers do this. When the network freezes though I don't have other appls freeze but I generally have to reboot to get the frozen transfer window to close.

Have you tried disconnecting your Mac from the internet/network and see how that works? If your network transferring consistantly causes chain freezing maybe it is related to the source of your problems?

interesting. Im not going to pursue this right now though. Ill wait until the new mac arrives and if the problem is still there then obviously it was never the mac. although Im reaaaaaally hoping it was the mac.

I still have lots of freezes and crashes that are not related to the network transfers though. so we shall see.


----------

Im using the apple mouse. I do have an MX1000 though and it is hooked up to the computer. I just don't actually use it at this point. I probably will when my wrist starts hurting. I wont install it on the new mac for a few weeks first to see if that causes any problems once I install it!
 
If Apple is willing to send you a new Mac then it sounds like they are conceding that yours has a hardware issue.

Man, some good advice here, some horrendous. The level of misinformation really is scary. This kind of troubleshooting is one of those things that becomes much easier the more comfortable you get with OSX. Knowing Unix is a HUGE advantage because you'll already know how to navigate logs, permissions, startup folders, etc. from terminal.

I wish MacRumors had a 'reputation' feature or some other scoring method we could use to evaluate the legitimacy of advice/users. I love OSX in major part because I love and know Unix. UNIX is fast, powerful, and robust- that said, it will let you eff yourself if you tell it you want to. Or, I guess it's more that it will happily eff itself if you tell it you want it too and say please(= sudo)!!! =) Be very very very careful following step by step solutions if you don't know what the steps are doing.

My opinion, (I liked IJ and applespider), never ever ever reinstall the OS as a step in the troubleshooting process. This is terrible advice and there's no argument for a "agree to disagree" scenario. You effectively destroy your greatest asset in reaching a solution: the ability to reproduce the problem. Reinstalling is not a fix, it's a total game of chance. To reinstall without knowing what you're trying to accomplish is just desperation. I really think you'd be hard pressed to find many competent admins/users that would "agree to disagree" like suggested.

One of the most important things to remember anytime you're mucking through problems like this. it's not worth wasting too much time. You have to keep weighing the likelihood of getting it working, the cost, the benefits. Keep a mental record (or on paper if you're organized) of how long you're spending. If it takes you a week to fix it- you should have sent it back and not lost the sleep (and gain some sleep from not having your mac ;) .... ) I consider myself capable of fixing many things but I can think of countless times I should have followed my own advice. You can waste the time, lose the sleep, lose data, lose money, and never reach a solution and on top of that you might not even really learn anything from the hacking. The more you know, the harder it is to concede but it is the sensible thing in many situations. We pay for the applecare, might as well put it to work when you can.

If I had your symptoms I hope that I would test the ram immediately. It's the first thing that came to mind when I read the OP. In reality, I don't want to believe that my ram has died and I exhaust every avenue while booted before I dig out the OSX dvd wherever it's hiding.

Here are a few things off the top of my head that I do if I am troubleshooting:

a. repair permissions

b. verify/repair disk (from DISK UTILITY)

c. Remove any unnecessary devices.

d. Sift through login items, startup items. Make sure nothing weird is going on. Disable them, add them back slowly until panic.

1. Login as another user, try to reproduce.

2. Login in safe mode, try to reproduce.

3. Examine the logs for each kernel panic, see how they compare, look for common thread.

4. Test the ram.
 
I concede that there is an argument in favor of desperate measures, but only as a last-ditch effort, not as a first step. That "last ditch" might come sooner for some than others, but still, the risks of taking desperate measures should be understood clearly in advance. The risk inherent in attempting to reinstall OSX on a Mac which is constantly kernel panicking should be obvious, but I find myself having to mention it frequently in these threads. Weight your options, measure your risks, before taking action, is my advice. Attempt the least potentially destructive troubleshooting techniques first. Also know when the solution may be out of your reach.
 
a. repair permissions

b. verify/repair disk (from DISK UTILITY)

c. Remove any unnecessary devices.

d. Sift through login items, startup items. Make sure nothing weird is going on. Disable them, add them back slowly until panic.

1. Login as another user, try to reproduce.

2. Login in safe mode, try to reproduce.

3. Examine the logs for each kernel panic, see how they compare, look for common thread.

4. Test the ram.

I covered 90% of these things. then I did what you said in the beginning. I realized I had done to much. I payed for a machine. if it doesn't work thats not my problem. It cant be my problem. thats why I bought it. so many issues with my XP and vista machines. I don't want to know what's in that box anymore. I want to know its silver and pretty. :) thats all I care about. now fix the sick box and let me carry on! Hopefully it was just the box. when it arrives I will try very hard to put it through its paces and see if I get the same issue.

reinstalling the OS was something I learned from my vista/XP machines. I dont do it very often because it takes forever but it usually worked or at least got the computer running alot faster. Ill remember next time (if there is one) with my mac to save that as a very very last resort.
 
Just a question for those of us here spewing bad advice...

Someone PLEASE tell me how you can screw up a system by re-installing an OS?

You do NOT waste any effort in doing this.

If you create a small second partition, install the OS... and everything is still fine... then you've narrowed it down to a software problem.

At that point, you can boot BACK into the ORIGINAL OS that was giving you the problems and start troubleshooting.

I've reinstalled an operating system maybe 1000 times on hundreds of systems, and I've even had OS X "Panic" on my during an install. It NEVER hosed it from booting into the PREVIOUS original operating system that was giving me issues.

But it DID save me TIME by finding out that... if it panics in the middle of an install... it CANT BE SOFTWARE... and off it goes... problem solved in 8 minutes.

I'm happy to be open minded and learn that this is bad... but no one is saying why... only that "its bad".

Ok, ... TELL ME!!!!!!!
 
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