My MBP Keyboard Experience - $513 repair

[Queen6]

Wow...that's just...colossally stupid. No wait, a phrase just popped into my head. What is it...ah, yes. "Planned obsolescence." It's a smart business move, until people catch on to it.

This is the obvious direction Apple has been heading for a long time, although I doubt Apple is deliberately designing the keyboards to have a limited life. More a rush to market combined with inadequate qualification of the butterfly keyboard which Apple neatly passes on to it's customers to deal with.

Apple is most definitely limiting the usefulness and lifespan of it's hardware by eradicating post purchase upgrades. Sadly Apple today often talks a good computer and delivers a product that is designed to work for Apple first and foremost, not it's customers. Personally I believe companies should be compelled to design their products to be repairable, not just destined for the landfill at the first point of failure...

Q-6

 

[Closingracer]

You omitted talking about the first part of his quote re: Apple store employees.

I also have personal experience talking to a few and the keyboard problems are real, and definitely larger than ever in the past.

We can argue about the degrees of it, but it is a real problem of some kind and degree.

"Keyboard reliability issues" isn't a data point you want any upward change in...

That combined with the extreme cost and difficulty of doing any keyboard repairs is what makes this a really big problem, especially as the machines age.

There's nothing to omit. They are in the minority group.


My almost one year old 2017 model. Works great. Actually the battery might be an issue but that's a different story

 

[jeyf]

new buyers please stay away from Apple MB products till this gets fixed

 

[turbineseaplane]

There's nothing to omit. They are in the minority group.


My almost one year old 2017 model. Works great. Actually the battery might be an issue but that's a different story

Did you read any of what we were talking about (it doesn't appear you did)

The "omitted part" was about information from Apple Store employees.
I'd hardly call their first hand customer experience anecdotes as being "in the minority".

 

[jeyf]

i was told even with the repair the keyboard failures return

 

[turbineseaplane]

i was told even with the repair the keyboard failures return

Not surprising - the 2017's just built in the "fix" they were doing to 2016's that came back with issues.

A literal design change is likely needed.
Hopefully they've been doing that the last year or so behind the scenes.

 

[Closingracer]

Did you read any of what we were talking about (it doesn't appear you did)

The "omitted part" was about information from Apple Store employees.
I'd hardly call their first hand customer experience anecdotes as being "in the minority".

If 2 Apple employees out of thousands ( purely hypothetical number) say it's an issue that's the majority? No it's not. As I stated a vocal minority doesn't mean crap.

 

[turbineseaplane]

If 2 Apple employees out of thousands ( purely hypothetical number) say it's an issue that's the majority? No it's not. As I stated a vocal minority doesn't mean crap.

I've personally heard it from 3 at my local store, and remember, they are reporting on their interactions across thousands of guests over the course of a year+.

That's a lot more than 2 isolated examples..

You seem to be taking this a little personally. I'm not sure why.
Nobody actually wants this problem to exist.

Did you notice Apple has essentially acknowledged how finicky this situation is by way of their ridiculous "hold the laptop at a weird angle and blow compressed air into the keys" support doc online?

 

[jeyf]

... Did you notice Apple has essentially acknowledged how finicky this situation is by way of their ridiculous "hold the laptop at a weird angle and blow compressed air into the keys" support doc online?

like Antenna Gate it really matters how you hold apple devices

 

[csurfr]

I've personally heard it from 3 at my local store, and remember, they are reporting on their interactions across thousands of guests over the course of a year+.

That's a lot more than 2 isolated examples..

Well, 3 is not *a lot more* than 2.

That said, I’ve been to all three stores here in Seattle and the employees have had nothing but praise for the new machines. And to be perfectly honest, the majority of machines I see at the Genius Bar have been older model MacBook Pro(s), and MacBook Air. I’ve only seen two or three in there with 2016/2017 machines.

I still think this is all blown out of proportion on MacRumors.

As far as *hold it at this angle, etc* it has to do with the keys are actually inset of the the top case. They aren’t flush or “just above” if you will, like the 2015 and older models. Shooting air directly down onto them won’t do anything as there is no way for compressed air to get past them.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Well, 3 is not *a lot more* than 2.

Think of the sample size they are pulling from to express to me the issues they are seeing.

It's not 2 or 3 - you get what I'm saying I think?

I just have to add that I personally know these guys.

I'm not surprised if the general narrative the employees are told to enforce is "problem? What problem? Our new MacBooks are our best ever and our customers love them!"

 

[bigdogn12]

After about 14 months, my $3000 MacBook Pro keyboard failed. The spacebar stopped working, while the B and H keys worked intermittently. At a cost of $513, the Apple Store installed a new top case, which took about 5 days.

To add insult to injury, they lost all my data. I'll be spending the next few days reinstalling everything to my computer and setting up another Windows partition.

"Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me"

Dear OP,
If you paid your macbook in full by credit card, most of them extend the manufacturers warranty by a year. Contact their claims department and they’ll most likely will cover your repair costs. AMEX, CITI cards, Discover, and more

 

[dryja123]

like Antenna Gate it really matters how you hold apple devices

You're typing on it wrong

 

[turbineseaplane]

No offense to you sir, but the people trying to downplay the keyboard thing are bordering on ridiculous.

 

[csurfr]

No offense to you sir, but the people trying to downplay the keyboard thing are bordering on ridiculous.

Come on, you know better than that. Let’s find some actual statistics before we all scream that “Apple is doomed” and “the sky is falling”.

Everything else is just guesswork and conjecture. Period.

Edit: I must be the luckiest guy out there, as between myself, friends, and business partner, we’ve had at least 9 maybe more 2017 machines and haven’t had any problems. 2016, totally different story.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Let’s find some actual statistics before we all scream that “Apple is doomed” and “the sky is falling”.

Love to!
Where do you propose we source those statistics?

With the second part of your statement you are descending into unfounded hyperbole.

I have never said Apple is doomed.
Apple has changed would be my contention.

 

[csurfr]

Love to!
Where do you propose we source those statistics?

With the second part of your statement you are descending into unfounded hyperbole.

I have never said Apple is doomed.
Apple has changed would be my contention.

And that’s the whole point, right? We don’t have any statistics. But the fact remains, posts on MacRumors are not representative of the entirety of problems or the lack thereof.

My “Apple is doomed” wasn’t directed at you personally. I know (at least from our interactions and my reading) that you haven’t said that.

 

[turbineseaplane]

And that’s the whole point, right? We don’t have any statistics. But the fact remains, posts on MacRumors are not representative of the entirety of problems or the lack thereof.

My “Apple is doomed” wasn’t directed at you personally. I know (at least from our interactions and my reading) that you haven’t said that.

Honestly, the data that matters to me has nothing to do with the forums at all.

Here I am simply finding like minded, longtime Mac users, who've never encountered anything like the rate of keyboard issues we are currently, personally, experiencing.

Does that mean it's a problem for all?
Absolutely not.

Does it mean it's a crisis?
Not necessarily.

But is it a problem that didn't exist to this degree in the past, based upon anecdotal and personal evidence from a wide variety of sources, all well beyond an internet forum?

Yes

All problems are a matter of degrees and this one has appeared, to many of us, as one that's now of a higher degree than anything in the past like it relating to the keyboards on the laptops.

All I can ask you to do is respect that many of us have been around for a very long time with Apple and trust many of us when we tell you, this is a problem for many people.

Again - and I can't emphasize this enough - it's not a problem for everyone, but simply one that is showing up in our circles much more than anything like it before as it relates to the keyboards. Whatever you think of those data points, they are real.

I'm delighted it hasn't been a problem for you personally, or perhaps many people here claiming they have no issues. Truly and honestly, I'm very happy you've avoided this...as. it. sucks..

I'm at my wits end on this.
We don't need to convince each other, but I would implore you to at least attempt to trust that we aren't "making this up".

Apple isn't doomed, the sky isn't falling, but Apple has created a keyboard that appears to be more prone to problems than previous models (which had essentially no keyboard problems in any noticeable numbers)

Fair?

 

[Koh Phi Phi]

I dont have statistics - and I dont need them.

All I know is that I paid almost $3,000 barely 15 months ago, and now my "b" key is broken... AND, when I search google for possible solutions, I found a bunch of threads in multiple forums reporting the same exact issue.

A $3,000 laptop failig a little over 1 year from purchase... COME ON!

 

[csurfr]

Honestly, the data that matters to me has nothing to do with the forums at all.

Here I am simply finding like minded, longtime Mac users, who've never encountered anything like the rate of keyboard issues......

I’m not and never have disagreed with you in that there are issues with some of the machines. I don’t think that the people are here are making them up, though there do seem to be quite a few people who have registered to say “my computer is garbage” and then are never heard from again.

There are those on the forum who say they have “won a case” against Apple in this, but provide nothing in the way of proof that will help others with their problems, and then continue to ignore repeated requests to do so.

I’ve been a Mac user since the blue / white G3 towers, and have owned at least one of everything they have released since (except the trash can Mac Pro).

You are 100% correct that in all of my years I have never heard as many people complain about something as they have the 2016 / 2017 MacBook Pro, and to me that’s very very strange. I was a member of MacNN from its inception until the time it shut down. I’ve been around the block myself a few times, but even when the anti-glare coatings failed, or the GPUs failed, never did I hear as much of an outcry as we do today over keyboards.

As before, I’ve never begrudged anyone of their opinion, and offered to help where I was able. But sometimes enough is enough. Are there problems? Sure, any mass produced item has them. Are they worse than the anti-glare coatings, gpu failures, or “mold lines” on the G4 cube? No idea. Time will tell.

Until then, we keep on moving, and trying to assist others as best we can, and agree to disagree in some aspects.

 

[sputnikBA]

You’re right that no one outside of Apple will ever have the full figures, but when you see so many people mention it in different places (forums, tech blogs, twitter, notable users that are normally apple’s biggest cheerleaders etc etc), & Apple themselves issuing some kind of guidance about additional maintenance for butterfly KB models.... you know that something is wrong.

I don’t recall apple ever going out of their way to issue public documentation on how to clean your KB... the only times I’ve ever seen them make a similar move is when they have been forced to for legitimate issues in the past (such as the anti glare coatings, Nvidia GPUs and such).

Something is definitely wrong and I genuinely believe it is worse than with those previous issues — but even if it wasn’t statistically worse and is only in the same ballpark, that isn’t better at all. It would only mean it’s a failiure issue on the same level as those that deserved a proper recall or extended warranty, and not a fee to the end user / mandatory AppleCare purchase people have to do now.

 

[DjanSeriyAnaplian]

There's another salient point too: these keyboard issues have exposed how poorly the new machines are engineered. It should be far easier/cheaper to replace a keyboard.

 

[Mr. Dee]

I will be using my brother as a experiment to see how well the 2017 MBP 13 I bought for him holds up. If he starts complaining in the 6 months to a year. I know where my money is going - a Lenovo Carbon X1 or 15 inch Surface Book 3.

 

[jeyf]

Apple should have retained the vision to squeeze out a new product every few years instead of flogging the same markets to death. Who would ever thought Apple, after 40+ years, end up as just another stick in the mud, brick in the wall.

 

[Fishrrman]

turbine wrote in reply 143:
"Apple isn't doomed, the sky isn't falling, but Apple has created a keyboard that appears to be more prone to problems than previous models"

Something else which should be mentioned here.

The OTHER problem with Apple's current keyboard design is that it is NOT EASILY REPLACEABLE in the instance of failure.

This makes repairs far more complicated and expensive (as described in the video that was posted in another thread).

On many (most?) Windows laptops, one can change out the keyboard easily, and the replacement keyboard can be found cheaply.

Not with Apple's products.
All in "the name of thin-ness".

Apple, I can live with 3mm more thickness.
But please, make your expensive devices repairable.