My MBP Keyboard Experience - $513 repair

Hi BananaX. Where are you from?

I'm having my computer fixed for the third time and they refuse to give me a new unit. Now they are changing "antena and fans".
I just can't believe. That's the third time they open my computer.

What do I need to do to so they replace the unit? I'm contacting an attorney right now.

Regards,

I brought mine in Australia. I did not just tell them what were problems. I have videos for all the problems. I was so prepared every time I went to the same genius bar. The tech group leader know my MBP's problems as well. I suppose they just cant figure out where to start and sick of me been there. I think Apple will replace your MBP after third major fix.
 
I'm just curious if you have ever found comfort outside of the Mac-ecosystem ? Have you tried or are you currently using other company's laptops ?

Yes, we as family did, actually. It developed gradually, though. The iPhones simply turned too expensive after the 5s models, regardless of direct purchase or part of a mobile package, to staff all our four family members with it. We started with Nokia Lumia 620 and a Moto E 2014. We trend to use Android for the time being. My wife still uses her Lumia 640 on Windows Mobile. The moment the software stops performing, we have to replace it. But the hardware and handling of it is perfect, we don´t want to give it up by any means! I wished this model would support Android or any other custom ROM. It´s really crazy. My daughter and I each still use a Moto X 2013 model, modded via rooting with additional security and mods to improve. They are still quite capaple devices and their form factor, unfortunately, is getting so rare. And we personally love the wooden back covers. All the mobiles sync via Onedrive/Dropbox/GDrive, to avoid lockin. I feel that the Oneplus 3 is a future candidate - LTS hardware so to speak – for us, with ample of custom ROM support. It´s not perfect, but sufficient for our needs in the years to come.

We still use two iPad 2 models, 16GB and 64GB, with screen/touch modules repaired several times ... and it´s not always the kids, mind you, who break them, haha. We won´t replace them at the moment, as they still perform core functions like internet research, Netflix, music streaming and occational games.But we don´t see much value in the new iPad models, especially with severe iOS 11 instabilities and workflow deficiencies at the moment. And they would, e.g., still require a PC/Mac for our daughter´s school work. The Surface Pro range from Microsoft does look good for this, especially the much better pen support on that platform. It is unfortunate, that Microsoft - and Google with Pixel - don´t see through their hardware quality problems - software is perfectly fine with me, at least. The moment those two concentrate on building trust with their hardware reliability, we get real hardware competition.

My wife still enjoys her Macbook 2008 unibody, updated to a 512GB SSD and 8GB RAM. At the job, she uses a Surface Pro 4 and while she hates the odd quirks the machine gives her on a regular basis, she loves the form factor for her specific workflow: deskwork combined with intense travels. Her Macbook still uses OSX 10.10 Yosemite. I do use 10.11 Sierra. We won´t upgrade to High Sierra for the time being, as long as all our software needs are perfectly fulfilled. We don´t see any security or usability needs enhanced by it. VirtualBox trains us to use Windows/Linux, too.

I built a 6 core PC for gaming, windows specific work loads and the future transition to a more powerful OX machine. I want to make it my OSX desktop, especially for the much more potent graphics card hardware selection, and at the moment I experiment to have a fast data transition from the boot drive of my Macbook Pro to the PC; best as a sole drop in replacement in case on of one the machines breaking.

My Macbook Pro is more stable with the DIY hacks than before, funnily, and I like the thunderbolt interface for docking it at home - I use a Caldigit Thunderbolt Station 2 and Lacie eSATA bridges. It´s rock solid. I haven´t tried it with thunderbolt equipped PCs yet, but if it performs as seamless, my last hardware barrier falls. I do dislike the USB-C implementations at the moment: It´s, frankly speaking, a big and ugly mess NOT being universaI. like Logic Pro X. But I make myself familiar with Ableton Live at the moment, which is a somewhat different, but adequate replacement. And it´s cross platform.

Should we need to get other computer/mobile hardware, Apple products wouldn´t be bought new, that´s for sure. Here in Germany, for us as a familiy, we can no longer afford them and the value/quality isn´t there anymore, unfortunately, neither in hadrware nor software. We won´t finance mobile/hardware purchases; the strict rule is they must be bought from the running budget. Used machines are a perfect value proposition for us and do support our way of life: We as a family purposefully train to use products as long as suitable and repair them as we go. Buy quality firsthand if possible, but always prolong it it fits your workflow. If you can´t repair it, we don´t want to use it - even if it´s cheap firsthand or called be the best on the block.

In the last few years we more and more do encourage and support cross platform products, letting use move our data freely between machines and services free from vendor specific burdens. Think about what you want to do first, not whom you need. Oh, it is hard to teach kids platform independence, when most of their peers celebrate it to the bone- be it Samsung, Apple, Nike ... you get the point, I guess.
 
It’s different when there’s a specific flaw with a product (MBP 2016/17 keyboards) that is extremely widespread.
Apple is very very (extremely) cautious about its reputation (that's why it is so expensive). If this keyboard problem will proof to be "extremely" widespread - I'm 100% positive Apple is going to address it. Like they done it before (faulty battery, screen coating, GPU etc.)
I trust them. If they fail me, I will just stop buying stuff they do. That's the ultimate punishment individual customer can exercise (period)
 
In the last few years we more and more do encourage and support cross platform products, letting use move our data freely between machines and services free from vendor specific burdens. Think about what you want to do first, not whom you need. Oh, it is hard to teach kids platform independence, when most of their peers celebrate it to the bone- be it Samsung, Apple, Nike ... you get the point, I guess.

I think this is key. My work and recreation are both cross-platform. The software I use are also cross-platform and frequently open source. This is my way of not being anchored to any platform, either through my own ignorance or just sheer laziness to learn anything else. I also urge people to store their data on a workstation-platform-independent media, like on a cloud service and/or on a NAS, instead of keeping all relevant data on the workstation.
 
It is kind of alarming that so many people are reporting issues with the keyboards on their current gen MBP's and they haven't addressed it publicly.

This butterfly keyboard was such a huge selling point for Apple..
 
It is kind of alarming that so many people are reporting issues with the keyboards on their current gen MBP's and they haven't addressed it publicly.

This butterfly keyboard was such a huge selling point for Apple..

I would say the butterfly keyboard was Apple's way to gain some space so they could make the case smaller.

No one was screaming at them to replace the older keyboard. And not everyone likes the new keyboard even when all the keys work. Some people have issues with the limited travel and clacky noise.
 
Every day the idea of selling my MBP for a ThinkPad or some other Windows computer seems more and more enticing.

Of all the **** ups Apple has had with their hardware, the various bugs in MacOS, this seems to take a cake. How do you design a keyboard that can break this easily and requires a replacement of half the machine to fix it?

This is why I have both Apple and Windows in my house, boot camp is just not enough.
 
Every day the idea of selling my MBP for a ThinkPad or some other Windows computer seems more and more enticing.

Of all the **** ups Apple has had with their hardware, the various bugs in MacOS, this seems to take a cake. How do you design a keyboard that can break this easily and requires a replacement of half the machine to fix it?

Look at the Lenovo P51. It's not a dainty little thing, but if you need to get work done it ticks all the right boxes. Build quality is great, fantastic keyboard, 4K matte screen, up to 64GB RAM, space for 3 SSD's and it as loads of ports. No more dongles. It also has a built-in colour meter if you need one. So long as you are happy with Windows is it is good.
 
I would say the butterfly keyboard was Apple's way to gain some space so they could make the case smaller.

No one was screaming at them to replace the older keyboard. And not everyone likes the new keyboard even when all the keys work. Some people have issues with the limited travel and clacky noise.
Yes. Apple had to gain .12 inch. Previous thickness unacceptable. Lol.
 
The newest Thinkpads are awesome! Played with an X1 Carbon at Costco the other night and dang, that thing is sweet as apple pie. Most amazing keyboard I've ever typed on. So much so that I'm thinking of jumping off the Apple ship and getting back into the Windows world with a Thinkpad. Waiting to see what Apple does with their line of MBP's this year, however.

X1 didn't have enough RAM for me, but otherwise I would have gone for one. If you look at what they have managed to do with the keyboard on such a thin laptop compared to the MBP it's amazing. Other than this obsession with making everything thin I cannot for the life of me think why Apple went with such a design. It seems counter-intuitive considering Apple are all about making products that 'just work. You'd think tactile feedback would come into product design.
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It is kind of alarming that so many people are reporting issues with the keyboards on their current gen MBP's and they haven't addressed it publicly.

This butterfly keyboard was such a huge selling point for Apple..

I honestly think they've lost the plot with this keyboard, and the design of the current MBP. Keyboards are a very subjective thing and for a lot of people these low travel versions just don't work. Apple don't give any choice though, they use the same keyboard on every model pretty much. I just don't get that move on a MBP which is being sold as a mobile workstation. If you compare it to other mobile workstations they give up portability to have things like ports, a proper keyboard and storage options. Battery life is not so much a deal with these type of laptops as they are often plugged in most of the day and occasionally unplugged for meetings. I think Apple have taken this design language too far now and people who were happy customers in the past are now looking at other options.
 
Look at the Lenovo P51. It's not a dainty little thing, but if you need to get work done it ticks all the right boxes. Build quality is great, fantastic keyboard, 4K matte screen, up to 64GB RAM, space for 3 SSD's and it as loads of ports. No more dongles. It also has a built-in colour meter if you need one. So long as you are happy with Windows is it is good.

Long before I became accustomed to Macs, I was using IBM Thinkpads. I loved the older ones. My last Thinkpad was a T60P, which had a socketed CPU, a full (not partial like today's Thinkpads) magnesium inner structure, a good complement of ports, excellent keyboard and a 16:10 display.

Based on many reviews of Lenovo's Thinkpads, they seem to have greatly reduced the extent of the magnesium inner structure both in the bottom half and the screen assembly, jumped on the bandwagon for chiclet keyboards and completely gotten rid of the 16:10 displays. I suppose I can tolerate the reduced rigidity of the chassis, as long as it is reasonably strong. I can also tolerate the chiclet keyboard, as long as it is reasonably responsive and tactile. I can't tolerate 16:9 displays for work. I use 16:9 displays for recreation, but not for work in a portable device.

I have looked at Lenovo's P52S, P51, and Dell and HP's equivalents, but no one seems to be offering a 16:10 display option these days outside of Apple. This for me is a major hurdle. The rest I think I can deal with in a work computer. Oh, and for reliability reasons and the fact that maintenance, upgradeability and serviceability are all worse than Macbook Pros, I will not touch the Surface products.
 
Long before I became accustomed to Macs, I was using IBM Thinkpads. I loved the older ones. My last Thinkpad was a T60P, which had a socketed CPU, a full (not partial like today's Thinkpads) magnesium inner structure, a good complement of ports, excellent keyboard and a 16:10 display.

Based on many reviews of Lenovo's Thinkpads, they seem to have greatly reduced the extent of the magnesium inner structure both in the bottom half and the screen assembly, jumped on the bandwagon for chiclet keyboards and completely gotten rid of the 16:10 displays. I suppose I can tolerate the reduced rigidity of the chassis, as long as it is reasonably strong. I can also tolerate the chiclet keyboard, as long as it is reasonably responsive and tactile. I can't tolerate 16:9 displays for work. I use 16:9 displays for recreation, but not for work in a portable device.

I have looked at Lenovo's P52S, P51, and Dell and HP's equivalents, but no one seems to be offering a 16:10 display option these days outside of Apple. This for me is a major hurdle. The rest I think I can deal with in a work computer. Oh, and for reliability reasons and the fact that maintenance, upgradeability and serviceability are all worse than Macbook Pros, I will not touch the Surface products.

I had the T61P, it was awesome. The screen was 1920 x 1600 (I think), which was just off the scale for the time.

I have the opposite experience with Thinkpads compared to MacBooks - had two of them fail on me, but so far (touch wood) the Thinkpads have been good. I also like being able to swap a part out myself if I need to. The keyboards aren't as good as the old machines though, but still a lot better than anything else out there.
 
Look at the Lenovo P51. It's not a dainty little thing, but if you need to get work done it ticks all the right boxes. Build quality is great, fantastic keyboard, 4K matte screen, up to 64GB RAM, space for 3 SSD's and it as loads of ports. No more dongles. It also has a built-in colour meter if you need one. So long as you are happy with Windows is it is good.

Yeah, that machine is a beast, I've been a fan of ThinkPad W/P-series for a long time. I can't rationalise all that power though, for my uses an entry level MacBook Pro is enough, although I'd love to get the Xeon version just for bragging rights.

My previous laptop was X220, and that was an amazing little machine - fast 35W processor, can easily upgrade RAM and storage, get an extended battery, even plug in eGPU, but unfortunately Lenovo screwed up the X-series with the newest X280, no more user replaceable RAM, no 2.5" drive bay, no more bridge battery etc.

It's really hard to get a great notebook these days.
 
Yeah, that machine is a beast, I've been a fan of ThinkPad W/P-series for a long time. I can't rationalise all that power though, for my uses an entry level MacBook Pro is enough, although I'd love to get the Xeon version just for bragging rights.

My previous laptop was X220, and that was an amazing little machine - fast 35W processor, can easily upgrade RAM and storage, get an extended battery, even plug in eGPU, but unfortunately Lenovo screwed up the X-series with the newest X280, no more user replaceable RAM, no 2.5" drive bay, no more bridge battery etc.

It's really hard to get a great notebook these days.

I only went for the high-end i7 as there wasn't much performance difference with a Xeon to make it worth my while. I don't need ECC RAM either. With that i7, a 512GB NVMe SSD, 32GB RAM (wasn't any more expensive than Crucial) and the 4K matte screen it was £2600. This is not far off the price of a base 15" MBP. I added a caddy 2.5" caddy so I could install a second SSD for £25. You could start with a lower-spec P51 and add to it as you need to. At least you have the ability to do that with a ThinkPad.
 
Apple is very very (extremely) cautious about its reputation (that's why it is so expensive). If this keyboard problem will proof to be "extremely" widespread - I'm 100% positive Apple is going to address it. Like they done it before (faulty battery, screen coating, GPU etc.)
I trust them. If they fail me, I will just stop buying stuff they do. That's the ultimate punishment individual customer can exercise (period)

Yes, but how many years after? That is the problem, historically, when there were wide spread issues with products, it took Apple years to come forward to offer assistance, years people rightly don't the have patience for, given the price premium.
 
Yes, but how many years after? That is the problem, historically, when there were wide spread issues with products, it took Apple years to come forward to offer assistance, years people rightly don't the have patience for, given the price premium.

Apple will only offer extended warranty, when it's compelled to. Until that point your on your own, simple as that :(

Q-6
 
After about 14 months, my $3000 MacBook Pro keyboard failed. The spacebar stopped working, while the B and H keys worked intermittently. At a cost of $513, the Apple Store installed a new top case, which took about 5 days.

To add insult to injury, they lost all my data. I'll be spending the next few days reinstalling everything to my computer and setting up another Windows partition.

"Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me"

what will you do once the warranty period is over .. and you get keyboard failures every 3 months?

I took legal action against apple to get mu money back.
 
what will you do once the warranty period is over .. and you get keyboard failures every 3 months?

I took legal action against apple to get mu money back.

Did you win? posting the result one way or the other will be of benefit to the community.

Q-6
 
yes - see my thread https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/2017-macbook-pro-13-non-tb-review.2056971/

some in the "community" were very encouraging.
some however were the opposite. my advice - ignore the fanboys and apologists for apple. some might even be paid...

Update 46 - The Law Won

Apple lost the case. The law found
  • Extremely poor customer service.
  • Evidence of Apple staff lying or being incompetent.
  • Acknowledgement of mounting evidence (in other places and cases) of a fundamental design fault with the 2016/2017 MBPs. A known wider issues can help individual cases.
  • Validation of my evidence.
  • Inadequacy of Apple testing - deliberate or incompetence.
  • Customer (me) going above and beyond to work with Apple to resolve issue, at significant cost to myself
DY5NuqvW4AAf_-p

Congratulations, on a fair result. Personally I have little doubt that Apple employs such tactics...



Q-6
 
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After about 14 months, my $3000 MacBook Pro keyboard failed. The spacebar stopped working, while the B and H keys worked intermittently. At a cost of $513, the Apple Store installed a new top case, which took about 5 days.

To add insult to injury, they lost all my data. I'll be spending the next few days reinstalling everything to my computer and setting up another Windows partition.

"Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me"

I'm really sorry you've had such a bad experience.

I only want to say two things. One, the "fool me once" thinking rests on the assumption that your experience would have been different with a different company. I've been an Apple user for decades now. Apple makes the most reliable hardware, by a long shot. That has been my experience.

I tried switching to Windows (not too long ago, too) and regretted the move. I missed macOS and the walled garden everyone hates so much.

So, think about that...

Second, I recommend you use OneDrive or iCloud. I no longer back up the computer. Instead, all the important files and folders live in the cloud. They are available on all my devices and when a reset is required or new computer is purchased, the transition is insanely simple.

Sorry again. I can only imagine how frustrated you must have been. I doubt this will happen again. Statistically, it's extremely unlikely.
 
Sorry again. I can only imagine how frustrated you must have been. I doubt this will happen again. Statistically, it's extremely unlikely.

I'm sure all are extremely interested in the statics, given the massive upsurge in keyboard issues since 2016. Some members have quoted Apple employees about how significant an issue this is, however what we are really missing is validation...

Q-6
 
I'm sure all are extremely interested in the statics, given the massive upsurge in keyboard issues since 2016. Some members have quoted Apple employees about how significant an issue this is, however what we are really missing is validation...

Q-6

Excellent point, but given Apple's past behavior, I would expect that a widespread problem will be resolved with a recall at some point. The OP would have a valid argument to make in requesting a refund.
 
Excellent point, but given Apple's past behavior, I would expect that a widespread problem will be resolved with a recall at some point. The OP would have a valid argument to make in requesting a refund.

Problem is that Apple will do nothing unless compelled to by a court of law as has be exemplified over and over in the past. I'm not against Apple equally I expect more of Apple than the cheap nickel & diming company it's rapidly becoming.

Frankly Apple's current cheapness is the very antithesis of a premium provider. Current keyboard should have been adequately qualified, not unleashed on the general public solely for the sake of offering a thinner, yet more unreliable series of notebooks...

Q-6
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Excellent point, but given Apple's past behavior, I would expect that a widespread problem will be resolved with a recall at some point. The OP would have a valid argument to make in requesting a refund.

Problem is that Apple will do nothing unless compelled to by a court of law as had be exemplified in the past. I'm not against Apple equally I expect more of Apple than the cheap nickel & diming company it's rapidly becoming.

Frankly Apple's current cheapness is the very antithesis of a premium provider...

Q-6
 
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