My third replacement 15" TB MBP is on the way. Hopefully this one won't rattle.

[xPad]

Dude, just give it up. You're not going to get a "rattle-free" MacBook. These are all within design specs.

You got people at Apple to agree with you (in person? or over the phone? The way you describe it, it sounds horrific, but watching your videos is... there's no nice way to put this so I'll just say, far from convincing) that you shouldn't accept it because Apple agrees with anyone within the first two weeks on anything they say they wouldn't accept, because they want to make their customers happy, and it's just restating "yes, you shouldn't accept something you don't accept".

I mean, c'mon, "If I shake it back and forth, it rattles" (how often do you shake it like that?) "If I tap hard around the edges of a piece of metal, the piece of metal moves and hits something else" WOW!

These aren't defects. They are how physical materials operate.

 

[Kenndac]

As others have pointed out, a large number of these laptops rattles when shook.

I won't be in a situation where I would sit at a desk and just rattle a laptop.

I mean, c'mon, "If I shake it back and forth, it rattles" (how often do you shake it like that?)

I've already stated multiple times that I'm not so fussed about the rattling sound it makes when shaken.

Are you trolling? You are calling thudding the MacBook in a place you'd never thud your fingers on in real time "rattling" ?? lol.

The sound I'm concerned about is the metallic twanging sound inside the bottom case. In the videos I demonstrate by tapping on the case, but it also happens when I set the machine down on a table or otherwise move it around, but it's harder to video these cases. It also happens (but more quietly) when I'm typing on the bottom half of the keyboard with the laptop on a hard surface. Unfortunately it can't be hard on video over my typing, but it's definitely there.

The reason I'm concerned about this particular noise is because if there is something loose in there, those components are close enough to the battery that there's a small chance of problems later down the line. Also this thing cost €3400, but apparently I should give Apple my €3400 and be happy with whatever rattling mess I get back. It says a lot about Apple's recent hardware quality — I've been buying Macs for 20 years and this is the first one I've ever had with stuff like this, but apparently that's The Way Things Are™ now.

Thanks for your replies, everyone. Your viewpoints have been useful.

 

[xPad]

I have to say that im kinda peeved that Apple is acting like they have no idea about it and this is the first they are hearing about it. It's been happening across several models spanning several years. And im sure their employees use the laptops and have probably noticed it as well.

Some of us were literally *lucky* that the geniuses acknowledged its not normal, while others are not so lucky and get told that it is within spec.

It is within spec. Apple knows their tolerances are only sub-millimeter in some parts. Sub-millimeter tolerances mean you can make those parts move if you deliberately do things to make those parts move. And when they move, they make sounds.
[doublepost=1484755739][/doublepost]

I've already stated multiple times that I'm not so fussed about the rattling sound it makes when shaken.

Yet you returned your MacBook Pro for that, and made a video as evidence of an issue.

The reason I'm concerned about this particular noise is because if there is something loose in there, those components are close enough to the battery that there's a small chance of problems later down the line. Also this thing cost €3400, but apparently I should give Apple my €3400 and be happy with whatever rattling mess I get back.

There is nothing lose in there. But you are missing the point, it's not that you should be "happy with whatever rattling mess you get back", it's that you aren't getting rattling messes (you yourself even "stated multiple times" that you apparently don't find this to be the case!), it's that you are getting normal MacBook Pros that operate as expected, but as expected doesn't meet your preferences.

So, you should't accept a rattling mess, but you'll be happier if you realized that these aren't the OCD-defying faults you are imagining. If that doesn't work, perhaps you could try another brand. They all rattle, click, creak, etc., almost universally more than any MacBook, but maybe you'll feel better about it for some reason.

 

[Kenndac]

Yet you returned your MacBook Pro for that, and made a video as evidence of an issue.

Yes. Later in this thread, I said that I didn't realise that particular sound was so common at that point. If I knew that was the case, I would have kept it.

So, you should't accept a rattling mess, but you'll be happier if you realized that these aren't the OCD-defying faults you are imagining. If that doesn't work, perhaps you could try another brand. They all rattle, click, creak, etc., almost universally more than any MacBook, but maybe you'll feel better about it for some reason.

This 2016 MacBook Pro makes a metallic twang when I tap the case, when I set it down on a desk, and when I type on it.

The 2014 MacBook Pro sitting next to it makes no such noises. It doesn't even rattle if I shake it!
[doublepost=1484756360][/doublepost]

When you perform your knocking tests on your machines there is every chance you are actually causing damage…

If the forces I place on the machine are enough to actually cause damage, perhaps that's the answer — there's no way they didn't take higher forces during shipping from China. There's every possibility that they're fine from the factory, but the bumping around in shipping is knocking things loose. Whether you believe devices like this should be designed to withhold forces caused by clumsy shipping processes is a whole other discussion!

 

[jerryk]

I wonder if the noise you hear from the bottom is the track pad. The trackpad has a set of vibration motors that are a series of parallel pieces of metal. My 2015 trackpad makes a little noise when I move the unit. But it works fine, so I am not going to mess with it.

I wonder if the 2016 would be worse because the new keyboard makes it easy to bottom out unless you type softly.

 

[Kenndac]

I wonder if the noise you hear from the bottom is the track pad.

I think you're right, and if every machine sounded like mine I wouldn't be sending it back. I also wonder if there's a limiting screw or something that's coming loose and allowing the moving components to come into contact with the outer case.

This kind of theory is why the Apple person I spoke to agreed it'd be a sensible idea to have the machine shipped to a store — if this is indeed happening, hopefully a tech can open it up and tighten everything up (and apply some thread lock!) and maybe tape the screen's diffuser panel into place while he's in there*!

* (I know they're in different parts of the machine, I'm just joking)

 

[jerryk]

I think you're right, and if every machine sounded like mine I wouldn't be sending it back. I also wonder if there's a limiting screw or something that's coming loose and allowing the moving components to come into contact with the outer case.

This kind of theory is why the Apple person I spoke to agreed it'd be a sensible idea to have the machine shipped to a store — if this is indeed happening, hopefully a tech can open it up and tighten everything up (and apply some thread lock!) and maybe tape the screen's diffuser panel into place while he's in there*!

* (I know they're in different parts of the machine, I'm just joking)

My guess is the trackpad mechanism itself is a FRU (Field Replaceable Unit) and not really made to be adjusted once it leaves the factory.

As for taping up the diffuser, I always assumed it was a little loose to allow for expansion as it gets heated by the screen.

 

[Bonaqua]

I sympathize with basically everyone in this thread. Obviously this symptom has existed over several generations of products -- but it's not something I have ever previously noticed myself. At the same time if it isn't impairing the machine from functioning normally then obviously one would be better off spending one's time on other matters. But it's also reasonable that one would worry if Apple themselves have not provided any guidance on the matter -- and therefore the worry is of merit. It's basically impossible for anyone of us -- who are not hardware engineers -- to know if this is a serious problem or not.

I have owned most of the products Apple has introduced over the years and sometimes there are legitimate problems with their products. I had to switch out 7 iPad Pros last year because of dust/dead pixels and the adhesive not being glued uniformly resulting in the screen making clicking noise when touched. Some of you might remember the Macbook Pro 15 a few years back with the screen burn in with the initial revision of LG screens.

Basically 50% of the Apple products I have purchased over the last years have been defective in some way or the other. Sometime's its something minor and sometimes it's like my last iMac 5K which had flaky bluetooth and had to have it's motherboard replaced. I don't really think Apple's QC has necessarily gone down-hill over the years. I keep returning because like others have mentioned Apple's customer service is unparalleled.

Every release of any product goes through several revisions and they do this because problems, defects, minor or major get discovered -- and because of people like Kenndac Apple is made aware of these and can readjust their manufacturing and QC processes.

My wife's MBP 13TB is making that noise as well when you shift it from left to right and right to left. The vibration from the sound is most prevalent on the left side of the case, left of the trackpad. But her computer has been flawless in every other regard as far as I know. She has not noticed this sound and I'm not going to inform her as well. I'll only do that if it turns out it's a serious problem that warrants a replacement or repair. I carry the OCD burden in our little family.

 

[bizack]

This thread is very interesting — I'm a developer by trade and like to gather data to help my decisions, so I posted my blog post in three different places to see how serious each community thought my issues were.

- Twitter (my social circle on there is mainly peers in the developer community): "This is unacceptable!" — many responses more upset than I am.
- Reddit: Nobody cared.
- MacRumors: "They're supposed to do that!" "You're stupid for caring about it!" "The noises are your ring or the table!" "Don't rattle your MacBook!"

As a final test, yesterday afternoon I emailed a link to my blog post to Tim Cook. I figured that if I was blowing this way out of proportion, I'd get nothing back, or at most a gift certificate or something to make me be quiet.

I got a call from a Senior Customer Service rep this morning, "On behalf of Tim Cook". Long story short:

- The person who called me is now my singular point of contact for this, and I have a direct line and email address.
- My returned MacBook Pros are being intercepted and 'sent to engineering for detailed diagnosis'.
- I was asked if I would send in the original copies of the videos from my post.
- The person who called me asked me to keep them in the loop with everything that happened, and said they're going to contact the Apple Store that MacBook Pro #4 is being shipped to to make sure they know I'm coming when the machine arrives and that it would be useful to have a tech present when I collect it.

So… there we go. Not a single person I've spoken to at Apple has suggested this is an issue I should be satisfied with, particularly the metallic twang in the bottom case.

As I've said before, I'll (grudgingly) accept a machine that only has the rattle in the top case. As a poster above commented, I shouldn't have returned MBP #2. Unfortunately, I didn't realise it was such a widespread issue at the time.

There's seems to be a lot of selection bias going on here. You chose the response out of the four groups that you agreed with the most, and deemed that to be the truth. I've emailed Tim Cook about many things, and have gotten similar responses, regardless of whether I was correct or incorrect. A better test, or the obvious test, would've been to collect N number of MBPs (either yourself or from current owners) and see how many of those exhibit one or more of the behaviors you saw. In your case, you saw it in all three that you've owned. You could certainly write this off as a fluke (there is an entire thread with people receiving multiple scratched MBPs) or use those as data points.

The reaction from one or more forums/networks is definitely not an indication of something being correct or incorrect with the machines you've owned - what you're measuring there is the 'level' and 'quality' of response.

I get that you're upset and obviously believe something is wrong with every machine you've received. But you also appear to be making decisions that you're regarding as truth in a relative vacuum (i.e. both without analysis and without a control/test group).

Anyway, good luck - I hope you end up with a machine you're satisfied with.

 

[idark77]

...
As a final test, yesterday afternoon I emailed a link to my blog post to Tim Cook. I figured that if I was blowing this way out of proportion, I'd get nothing back, or at most a gift certificate or something to make me be quiet.

I got a call from a Senior Customer Service rep this morning, "On behalf of Tim Cook". Long story short:

- The person who called me is now my singular point of contact for this, and I have a direct line and email address.
- My returned MacBook Pros are being intercepted and 'sent to engineering for detailed diagnosis'.
- I was asked if I would send in the original copies of the videos from my post.
- The person who called me asked me to keep them in the loop with everything that happened, and said they're going to contact the Apple Store that MacBook Pro #4 is being shipped to to make sure they know I'm coming when the machine arrives and that it would be useful to have a tech present when I collect it.
...

I hope that everybody in the next future can email Tim Cook for each bug found on the new MBP so Apple will resolve them and finally it will be a perfect machine. I always saw this kind of issue in the MBP ( cracking noise, pop/click sound, scratch/dented out of the box, Bleeding screen...) and people exchanged them but after many years the problem is still there... Now there is a task force of engineers to resolve the issue and a tech will be present when the user collect it...
Where were these engineers in the past years ?

 

[WhiteWhaleHolyGrail]

Yes. Later in this thread, I said that I didn't realise that particular sound was so common at that point. If I knew that was the case, I would have kept it.



This 2016 MacBook Pro makes a metallic twang when I tap the case, when I set it down on a desk, and when I type on it.

The 2014 MacBook Pro sitting next to it makes no such noises. It doesn't even rattle if I shake it!
[doublepost=1484756360][/doublepost]

If the forces I place on the machine are enough to actually cause damage, perhaps that's the answer — there's no way they didn't take higher forces during shipping from China. There's every possibility that they're fine from the factory, but the bumping around in shipping is knocking things loose. Whether you believe devices like this should be designed to withhold forces caused by clumsy shipping processes is a whole other discussion!

That's an interesting viewpoint, but equally, do you think the machines should be resilient to your shaking and knocking tests as these are clearly not reflective of normal use?

 

[hawkeye_a]

That's an interesting viewpoint, but equally, do you think the machines should be resilient to your shaking and knocking tests as these are clearly not reflective of normal use?

I've got a Dell laptop for work which I am using, it's made of all sorts of plastics, when i shake it, i don't hear anything moving around. (I dont know about other brands).

Personally, id prefer a product with anything not meant to move around...to not move around. On top of that when you factor in the price of these products compared to the competition, i'd expect it. That's me personally.

Further, can we agree that having a piece of sticky tape holding something in place, for a product of this price which is expected to last years is kindof sketchy (to say the least)? I dont know about you guys, but i would trade an extra mm of thickness for it being held together more reliably.

 

[aevan]

This 2016 MacBook Pro makes a metallic twang when I tap the case, when I set it down on a desk, and when I type on it.

That does sound bad - if it does make a sound when you set it down on a desk, that is not normal. I have to clarify that I was only talking about the vertical shakes.

 

[WhiteWhaleHolyGrail]

I've got a Dell laptop for work which I am using, it's made of all sorts of plastics, when i shake it, i don't hear anything moving around. (I dont know about other brands).

Personally, id prefer a product with anything not meant to move around...to not move around. On top of that when you factor in the price of these products compared to the competition, i'd expect it. That's me personally.

Further, can we agree that having a piece of sticky tape holding something in place, for a product of this price which is expected to last years is kindof sketchy (to say the least)? I dont know about you guys, but i would trade an extra mm of thickness for it being held together more reliably.

But my machine doesn't make these noises so how can we determine the fault is inherent throughout the entire lineup?

 

[CE3]

I've already stated multiple times that I'm not so fussed about the rattling sound it makes when shaken.



The sound I'm concerned about is the metallic twanging sound inside the bottom case. In the videos I demonstrate by tapping on the case, but it also happens when I set the machine down on a table or otherwise move it around, but it's harder to video these cases. It also happens (but more quietly) when I'm typing on the bottom half of the keyboard with the laptop on a hard surface. Unfortunately it can't be hard on video over my typing, but it's definitely there.

The reason I'm concerned about this particular noise is because if there is something loose in there, those components are close enough to the battery that there's a small chance of problems later down the line. Also this thing cost €3400, but apparently I should give Apple my €3400 and be happy with whatever rattling mess I get back. It says a lot about Apple's recent hardware quality — I've been buying Macs for 20 years and this is the first one I've ever had with stuff like this, but apparently that's The Way Things Are™ now.

Thanks for your replies, everyone. Your viewpoints have been useful.

Fair enough. I don't think the "twanging" noise is as common, and, who knows, it could be a sign of trackpad issues down the road.

I think most of us are talking about returning again over hearing the plastic film sheets behind the display hitting the enclosure if you rock the MacBook from side to side.

Once I learned (via iFixit) how these displays are designed and assembled, I realized that should I ever shake my MacBook and hear this noise, it would be nothing to be concerned about, and I don't consider it a defect. It's not the same thing as a tiny piece of plastic breaking off, or a screw falling out, and being able to hear a loose component tumbling around every time I put my MacBook in a backpack.

 

[hawkeye_a]

But my machine doesn't make these noises so how can we determine the fault is inherent throughout the entire lineup?

Maybe its the guys who assemble/produce the displays? (They could be assembling them differently/using different adhesives/etc)

It seems to me that this is a pretty widespread issue (dont know if i'd call it a "problem"). And i highly doubt Apple will fix/recall as it probably doesn't effect the operation of the machine.

It just seems sloppy for the price IMHO

 

[WhiteWhaleHolyGrail]

Maybe its the guys who assemble/produce the displays? (They could be assembling them differently/using different adhesives/etc)

It seems to me that this is a pretty widespread issue (dont know if i'd call it a "problem"). And i highly doubt Apple will fix/recall as it probably doesn't effect the operation of the machine.

It's just seems sloppy for the price IMHO

I beg to differ with you as this isn't anything approaching a 'widespread issue' - even on here the threads dealing with this issue are few and far between. If this was a widespread manufacturing defect it would be colossal news plastered all over the web.

 

[hawkeye_a]

I beg to differ with you as this isn't anything approaching a 'widespread problem' - even on here the threads dealing with this issue are few and far between. If this was a manufacturing defect it would be colossal news plastered all over the web.

That's true as well. And i dont have any numbers to back up my claim/belief.

I'm basing my opinion on some of the feedback I got saying it's "normal", and the fact that the symptom persisted after some people got their displays replaced or exchanged their machines. how many people would know to check for this kind of an issue?

 

[WhiteWhaleHolyGrail]

That's true as well. And i dont have any numbers to back up my claim/belief.

I'm basing my opinion on some of the feedback I got saying it's "normal", and the fact that the symptom persisted after some people got their displays replaced or exchanged their machines. how many people would know to check for this kind of an issue?

I see what you're saying as it seems some people have awful luck. I just wonder whether this is better explained by some causing issues through their own vigorous tests and/or having very low tolerance levels for noises that most would consider normal. It's very difficult to say isn't it?

I actually stood in a quiet room and gently shook my machine horizontally and vertically and it was noise free. I'm not going to shake my machine any harder as I believe that's rather counterproductive (!).

 

[hawkeye_a]

I'm not going to shake my machine any harder as I believe that's rather counterproductive (!).

Yeah, don't do that!

Several people on these forums have pointed out(including earlier in this thread) that it's a panel in the display held in place by a piece of tape. That leads me to believe that some shipments get shaken more than others leading to it coming loose sporadically. (This is all speculation on my part)

If the above is true, it's really disappointing that Apple would choose to use a piece of tape to hold something in place, inside a *portable*(ie it will get shaken around in 'normal' use) product meant to last for years.

 

[jacg]

There are some issues with the videos which actually make them unusable:
1) any of the aluminium notebooks (not just from Apple) will make that sound. The fact that you are tapping partly on the bezel around the trackpad and partly on the trackpad itself makes it trigger the trackpad which you can hear by the clicking sound it makes.
2) you are wearing a ring and there is no way of telling if your ring is causing the sound or not. I've tried to mimic it and it even rattles in my hands until I grasped it more tightly and watched how I was holding it. When I did that, there wasn't any noise.
3) there is a security cable attached to it and you are shaking it off camera so there is no way of telling if it it is the security cable/connector that is causing the rattling.
4) see nr 1; also, this can be caused by the MBP not sitting level on the table. This can be caused by the table, the bottom plate or the feet on the MBP.

There simply are too many other things that can cause the rattling and that is why the videos are unusable. They don't really proof anything. There are some people who have slowly tilted the MBP from left to right and vice versa. Do things like that, eliminate as much as other causes too and then create the video. That way you have far better proof for Apple to show the issue. Makes it a lot easier for them to troubleshoot and thus solve the issue (if there is any).

Other question that are important and need answering: do non-2016 MBP and even non-Apple notebooks do this (or in other words, is this to be expected from a (Apple) notebook?)?

You're not the first to suggest that a video shows someone being mistaken - someone did the same when I posted a video of exactly the same sound made by light tapping. It's something inside the base of the machine, not jewellery, wires or a table. There are actually quite a number of similar videos online. The sound is not what you want to hear when moving your very expensive machine and I worry that it could be indicative of a problem down the line.
[doublepost=1484777366][/doublepost]

Are you trolling? You are calling thudding the MacBook in a place you'd never thud your fingers on in real time "rattling" ?? lol.

The best fix for MacBook Pro #4 is cognitive therapy.

He's probably just demonstrating the sound it makes when moving it about. Exactly like mine does.

 

[Kenndac]

That's an interesting viewpoint, but equally, do you think the machines should be resilient to your shaking and knocking tests as these are clearly not reflective of normal use?

The G-forces applied to the machine (reasonably gentle deceleration and acceleration at the directional changes) when I shake it are significantly less than the G-forces that are likely to be applied during shipping and certainly less than those applied in situations like plopping a carry-case down on a chair or something. So, yes.

I also consider "putting it down on a desk" completely reflective of normal use.

 

[WhiteWhaleHolyGrail]

The G-forces applied to the machine (reasonably gentle deceleration and acceleration at the directional changes) when I shake it are significantly less than the G-forces that are likely to be applied during shipping and certainly less than those applied in situations like plopping a carry-case down on a chair or something. So, yes.

I also consider "putting it down on a desk" completely reflective of normal use.

I was referring specifically to your 'knocking' of the laptops. I actually winced looking at your video of this as you are slamming your finger down hard, particularly near the top of the TP where the surface area is so minimal. I am not sure what kind of reasonable force you are trying to replicate here for a laptop of this calibre given it is not a mil-spec machine.

In terms of the forces of transit, you're really just guessing here. I can only comment on your testing methods which I find artificial and probative of nothing other than your own biased benchmarks. This is supported by your spate of 'bad luck'.

I do hope you find peace of mind but I must say that if was working for Apple and I saw your videos, I would not entertain your repeat requests for exchanges.

 

[Kenndac]

A better test, or the obvious test, would've been to collect N number of MBPs (either yourself or from current owners) and see how many of those exhibit one or more of the behaviors you saw. In your case, you saw it in all three that you've owned. You could certainly write this off as a fluke (there is an entire thread with people receiving multiple scratched MBPs) or use those as data points.

So:

- All three of mine have had some sort of noise. That's 100%, but likely (hopefully!) a fluke.
- Two of eight at the Apple Store had some sort of noise. 25%.
- Three of x in the developer community I chat in had a noise, where x is however many people saw the conversation we were having, have a new machine, and checked for a noise. Based on the size of the group etc., that will probably be less than ten people.
- A number of people on Twitter mentioned they have a noise as well, but I'm too lazy to go back and see exactly how many. Certainly less than 10, but Twitter is much harder to get meaningful data from than a closed chat group.

My test was more to gauge how severe my reaction is to all this is. The answer is "Less than people on Twitter, more than people on MacRumors".

 

[MrGuder]

^^Right and you would be surprised at who watches these forums. I bet even Apple.