MyWi WiFi hotspot alternative?

[bella92108]

These types of replies drive me nuts ... it's not justification to breach contract just because you don't like the options you have within your contract. I am not saying I have a problem with those who jailbreak nor those who tether, but what I hate is when people make excuses that they have a "right" to do it.

NO, you have no rights that aren't afforded in your contract. If you think you have a right to tether because AT&T doesn't offer unlimited anymore, YOU'RE WRONG. If you think it's unfair that you AT&T charges to tether, don't bitch about it, switch to a different carrier. If you chose to have iPhone and chose to sign up with AT&T you also agreed to the terms prior to locking yourself into anything.

So if you're going to use MyWi or unofficial tethering, cool... but don't for a second try to convince anyone what you're doing is due to lack of options, because you have many, you just don't LIKE them.

End of my diatribe ;-)

 

[outz]

End of my diatribe ;-)

forever?? promise???

 

[bella92108]

forever?? promise???

LOL, no. ;-)

 

[Cinemagic]

+1 -
it's just technically breach of contract, lol.
.

AT&T would contend that it is a breach of contract. However there are limits as to what can legally be put into a contract. That's why there are a ton of law suits every day. I would contend that putting in their contract the ability to charge you twice for the same data would be struck down by a court. AT&T would contend that it would be upheld. Since no one has brought suit against AT&T for this contract provision and since AT&T has not brought suit against anyone violating this provision, we can argue this all day long with no resolution. I contend that AT&T's tethering provision would not be upheld and that a court would find that they are indeed charging twice for the same data. But that's merely my contention. Since I feel AT&T's provision is unenforceable and unfair, I have no moral dilemma about tethering. I do not feel I'm cheating AT&T. And I do not pirate apps. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

Apple contended that it was illegal to jailbreak. They petitioned the government to make such a declaration. Many people felt that Apple's stance was inherently unfair and there was no reason why jailbreaking should be illegal. Apple could have the right to refuse support for a product once someone tampered with the OS, but once the item was purchased, the seller must give up certain rights. If Apple wanted to retain complete and utter control over the iPhone, they should lease the devices and not sell a single one. Then they would retain ownership and could make such demands. But they didn't do this. They sold the devices and with their sale gave up certain rights. The government finally made a ruling and agreed with the jailbreakers that jailbreaking was not illegal. There must be a certain amount of fairness to both parties in any contract or TOS.

Your arguments regarding tethering and AT&T are very similar to Apple's arguments about jailbreaking. Just because it's in a contract or TOS agreement does not make it law, rule, absolute or fair. Until someone brings this issue to court, or the FCC makes a ruling, arguments to either side will remain merely a matter of opinion and individual morals.

 

[Block]

Yeah right

AT&T doesn't offer unlimited data + tethering

its not a "choice" o about finding a more affordable option

I would pay an additional fee if apple allowed tethering and let me keep my unlimited data plan but that choice doesn't exist

You can get an unlimited amount of data, you just have to pay for each and every amount after 2GB. AT&T doesn't cut you off after you past 2GB, they just charge you $10/GB. That's the official method.

 

[Looon]

Lol @ all the people who like taking the moral highground. The basic fact is some of us really can't afford to spend more money on stuff like apps for our phones. It took me months to save up enough money just to buy the stupid thing.

 

[dgstan]

It's not a complicated task, the only feature i care about is taking the 3G signal and broadcasting it as an SSID to use it from my laptop. Don't care about WEP\Security, nor do I care about what it LOOKS like, nor do i care if it does bridging or anything else.

NO, you have no rights that aren't afforded in your contract. If you think you have a right to tether because AT&T doesn't offer unlimited anymore, YOU'RE WRONG. If you think it's unfair that you AT&T charges to tether, don't bitch about it, switch to a different carrier. If you chose to have iPhone and chose to sign up with AT&T you also agreed to the terms prior to locking yourself into anything.

Sorry, I'm just catching up here...

First, you say you are looking for an app that will allow you to tether your laptop to your iPhone, violating your TOS agreement in the process.

Then you go on to say how wrong it is to tether your non-3G enabled device to your iPhone and how golden these same TOS are.

Unless I'm missing something, isn't there just a tinge of hypocrisy here?

 

[bella92108]

AT&T would contend that it is a breach of contract. However there are limits as to what can legally be put into a contract. That's why there are a ton of law suits every day. I would contend that putting in their contract the ability to charge you twice for the same data would be struck down by a court. AT&T would contend that it would be upheld. Since no one has brought suit against AT&T for this contract provision and since AT&T has not brought suit against anyone violating this provision, we can argue this all day long with no resolution. I contend that AT&T's tethering provision would not be upheld and that a court would find that they are indeed charging twice for the same data. But that's merely my contention. Since I feel AT&T's provision is unenforceable and unfair, I have no moral dilemma about tethering. I do not feel I'm cheating AT&T. And I do not pirate apps. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

There's nothing illegal about what's in their contract, which is why they have not been sued. They're not charging for the same data any more than if you bought two houses across the street from each other that you'd argue you should be able to connect them by a cable and watch the same TV subscription. No court would side with you, plain and simple. You're cheating AT&T because you know you're supposed to subscribe to the tethering plan but you're not. I'm not saying they're right to charge for tethering, in fact, I think it's BS, but it's within their legal right to do so. They're not chasing customers because it's not worth their time, but how about this. Cancel in protest, and see if they don't slap you with an early termination fee and chase you and your credit report for it.

I think it's funny how people argue the law on here to whatever is convenient for them. There's absolutely no relationship between the jailbreak legality and the terms of use. If you rent a BMW car, it's perfectly legal to use 89 octane gas in the vehicle, but if your rental agreement states that the manufacturer recommends using 92 therefor your contract with the rental car agency states that you must use 92 or better gas, then you're bound to do so. If you don't like the terms, don't sign up with them, this is a free country, you have options.

In this case you're right, AT&T will never come after you, nor will they know, but if you apply the same flawed logic and misunderstanding of the law to other situations you'll find yourself in trouble one day.

 

[bella92108]

Sorry, I'm just catching up here...

First, you say you are looking for an app that will allow you to tether your laptop to your iPhone, violating your TOS agreement in the process.

Then you go on to say how wrong it is to tether your non-3G enabled device to your iPhone and how golden these same TOS are.

Unless I'm missing something, isn't there just a tinge of hypocrisy here?

I'm not arguing if it's right or wrong, I've said I tether and don't pay. I'm simply stating that it's a violation of the contract. People can bitch all they they want, that's our right as Americans. Where it has to stop is people trying to convince themselves they're not violating their contract. I know this forum is like walking into a church and yelling there is no god, but it's the same concept. No matter how much you want to believe it's okay to tether, they don't have the tethering plan there for show... lol. Do it... but don't do it and say AT&T condones it. Otherwise you may as well be a politician and campaign against gay marriage then be caught in bed with a 16 year old gay hooker.

 

[awtryau89]

I'm not arguing if it's right or wrong, I've said I tether and don't pay. I'm simply stating that it's a violation of the contract. People can bitch all they they want, that's our right as Americans. Where it has to stop is people trying to convince themselves they're not violating their contract. I know this forum is like walking into a church and yelling there is no god, but it's the same concept. No matter how much you want to believe it's okay to tether, they don't have the tethering plan there for show... lol. Do it... but don't do it and say AT&T condones it. Otherwise you may as well be a politician and campaign against gay marriage then be caught in bed with a 16 year old gay hooker.

Not worried about it from my end. I have the tethering plan from AT&T because it is a part of my work contract. I pay (actually my company) pay $60 a month for enterprise data and tethering. If the new app comes out, I'm purchasing and using it as much as I want. I feel I have the right.

 

[bella92108]

Not worried about it from my end. I have the tethering plan from AT&T because it is a part of my work contract. I pay (actually my company) pay $60 a month for enterprise data and tethering. If the new app comes out, I'm purchasing and using it as much as I want. I feel I have the right.

Many people feel entitled to many things they aren't ;-) ... it's the American way.

I pay Comcast $75 a month for TV service... I feel like I'm entitled to take all I want so I'll buy a black box and take all the channels I want. Sure my contract says I only get the channels I pay for, but comon, I pay a lot (even though others pay more), so I'm "entitled" to take all I want however I want, whenever I want. LOL

 

[dgstan]

I'm not arguing if it's right or wrong, I've said I tether and don't pay. I'm simply stating that it's a violation of the contract. People can bitch all they they want, that's our right as Americans. Where it has to stop is people trying to convince themselves they're not violating their contract. I know this forum is like walking into a church and yelling there is no god, but it's the same concept. No matter how much you want to believe it's okay to tether, they don't have the tethering plan there for show... lol. Do it... but don't do it and say AT&T condones it. Otherwise you may as well be a politician and campaign against gay marriage then be caught in bed with a 16 year old gay hooker.

I don't remember anyone arguing that it doesn't violate the TOS agreement. We all know it does and we don't care.

 

[bella92108]

I don't remember anyone arguing that it doesn't violate the TOS agreement. We all know it does and we don't care.

Did you even READ this thread? Read Cinnemagic's post that my REPLY was in response to. He argued that it didn't violate their contract (TOS), and that's where I said he was wrong. I don't care if you and everyone else and their mother violates it. You admit it's wrong but do it. I admit it's wrong, and do it. Cinnemagic does it and think's he's entitled to do it within the terms of his contract, lol.

I agree with you 100%.

 

[Strawbis]

... it's the American way.

...

Let me get this straight ..

I'm in the UK, my contract states my tariff (plan) includes UNLIMITED data AND texts.

I can send and receive as many texts as I can tap out in a month without my provider issuing a warning, but when it comes to data they can invoke a fair usage policy LIMITING my UNLIMITED data allowance? and you don't see anything wrong with this picture?

I guess the legality of the contract depends on a court's definition of the word UNLIMITED.. but I already know what I think it means and your opinion is your own, so please stop trying to foist it on others.

 

[bella92108]

Let me get this straight ..

I'm in the UK, my contract states my tariff (plan) includes UNLIMITED data AND texts.

I can send and receive as many texts as I can tap out in a month without my provider issuing a warning, but when it comes to data they can invoke a fair usage policy LIMITING my UNLIMITED data allowance? and you don't see anything wrong with this picture?

I guess the legality of the contract depends on a court's definition of the word UNLIMITED.. but I already know what I think it means and your opinion is your own, so please stop trying to foist it on others.

I agree with you. The word "fair" may be different to you and your carrier, and you have a valid case against your carrier.

My question to you... did you know and understand this term prior to commitment into the contract?

If YES - then it's your responsibility to comply and accept it.

If NO - then you have a legitimate gripe with your carrier.

 

[Strawbis]

...
My question to you... did you know and understand this term prior to commitment into the contract?

...

I think you're missing the point:

The contract is invalid if "Unlimited Data" doesn't mean "Unlimited Data"! whether I understood and accepted the T&C's is irrelevant if the contract is a mis-representation of the truth. This is the reason they have now revised the newer contracts over here, and are now limiting new users to only 500Mb per month for the same cost as my "Unlimited" contract from only 5 months ago.

If they have lied, I don't have to honour my contract. I would think the same rules would apply in the US (although spellings might differ slightly).

 

[bella92108]

I think you're missing the point:

The contract is invalid if "Unlimited Data" doesn't mean "Unlimited Data"! whether I understood and accepted the T&C's is irrelevant if the contract is a mis-representation of the truth. This is the reason they have now revised the newer contracts over here, and are now limiting new users to only 500Mb per month for the same cost as my "Unlimited" contract from only 5 months ago.

If they have lied, I don't have to honour my contract.

Straight from O2's site (I looked it up out of curiosity, since I used to have O2)

This is from their contract, term #7 under iPhone Service

"You may not use your SIM Card:

- in, or connected to, any other device; or
- in a way that adversely impacts the service to other O2 customers.

If O2 reasonably suspect you are not acting in accordance with this policy O2 reserves the right to impose further charges or disconnect your SIM or your tariff at any time"

So which item in that doesn't CLEARLY stipulate that they too, like the devil AT&T, specify exactly that "unlimited" doesn't include being connected to another device?

LOL... Again, I'm not saying what they're doing is right, I'm only saying that playing dumb doesn't get you anywhere. ;-)

 

[bella92108]

I'm in the UK, my contract states my tariff (plan) includes UNLIMITED data AND texts.

Your contract doesn't state that, their marketing paperwork says it. Just like AT&T's Unlimited Global Data Package for $65 says that I can use as much data anywhere in the world as I want... but buried deep in the terms and conditions, I learned that if I use more than 2x the data abroad that I use within the US, they reserve the right to discontinue the service to me. Sure it's a crappy thing for them to do, but I agreed to the terms, therefor it's within their legal right. However it's unlikely just like it's unlikely they'll go after you for using "too much data"... they put the term in there to protect themselves just in case...

Just because something is unfair doesn't make it illegal. If they tell you you're allowed to use your phone on an airplane, that's an illegal contract term. If they tell you that you can't use your phone to attach your computer to it, that's perfectly legitimate, but that's what we jailbreak for ;-) If everyone followed the rules and laws, it'd take SOOOO long to drive from San Francisco to Los Angeles haha

******
EDIT: when looking at O2's contract I had to laugh at this one. "You May Not Use Your SIM or device connected to it to allow the continuous streaming of any audio / video content" ... so for all of you who think AT&T's bad, O2 is just as evil. Shanqua, how am I supposed to use my BET app to listen to my "Streaming Bootylicious Saturday Night Blast" on my iPhone when I'm waiting for my bus in South London?!?!? --- Sorry I just had to point this term out, WOWSA....
******

 

[Strawbis]

Straight from O2's site (I looked it up out of curiosity, since I used to have O2)

This is from their contract, term #7 under iPhone Service

"You may not use your SIM Card:

- in, or connected to, any other device; or
- in a way that adversely impacts the service to other O2 customers.

If O2 reasonably suspect you are not acting in accordance with this policy O2 reserves the right to impose further charges or disconnect your SIM or your tariff at any time"

So which item in that doesn't CLEARLY stipulate that they too, like the devil AT&T, specify exactly that "unlimited" doesn't include being connected to another device?

LOL... Again, I'm not saying what they're doing is right, I'm only saying that playing dumb doesn't get you anywhere. ;-)

That statement refers to using the sim in a mobile broadband usb adaptor, and I'm not connecting the sim to anything other than the phone! the sim remains in the phone it was supplied with and is doing exactly what it was supplied to do.. which is connecting to the network and providing data to the phone, which in turn passes the data on to my laptop. Tethering is a capability built into the phone's hardware, not the sim card.

furthermore - you are looking at the new T&C's I mentioned earlier. O2 know they have dropped the ball with their Unlimited Data package wording - that's why they have now downgraded the allowance and modified the T&C's.

 

[bella92108]

but I'm not connecting the sim to anything other than the phone! the sim remains in the phone it was supplied with and is doing exactly what it was supplied to do.. which is connecting to the network and providing data to the phone, which in turn passes the data on to my laptop. Tethering is a capability built into the phone's hardware, not the sim card. That statement refers to using the sim in a mobile broadband usb adaptor.

furthermore - you are looking at the new T&C's I mentioned earlier. O2 know they have dropped the ball with their Unlimited Data package wording - that's why they have now downgraded the allowance and modified the T&C's.

Your interpretation isn't accurate. While I agree in concept of what you should be able to do, legally your argument is invalid. Connecting your phone (which is your SIM) to the computer is done when you tether, be it wirelessly, or wired. When you join the SIM to the computer it creates a connection... how is that not clear?

The phone has tethering capability built in, and O2 will happily charge you the tethering bolt-on to use it under their T's & C's... The terms absolutely aren't for data cards, they're specifically stated as iPhone Customer Specific Terms.

It might be unfair that they changed it, but if those terms apply to you it's because you agreed to them. If someone signs up today and wants iPhone, they have to agree to a 2GB cap on AT&T. If they signed up 6 months ago, they have unlimited data (as much as they can consume on the device, non-inclusive of tethering), however if that user wants to have the iPhone 4, that user has to agree to a $325 early termination fee vs their old $175 (max) termination fee.

Companies are in business to make money. If you don't like the way they operate, don't agree to their terms and conditions, but don't sign up for the benefits, and then claim your own (mis)interpretation of their legal contract you agreed to. In the UK you're lucky, you have 5+ options to have an iPhone 4 on 3G. In the US there's only 1 viable option if someone wants iPhone 4, and is why the cellular market in the US is so funky at the present time.

 

[Strawbis]

Your interpretation isn't accurate. While I agree in concept of what you should be able to do, legally your argument is invalid. Connecting your phone (which is your SIM) to the computer is done when you tether, be it wirelessly, or wired. When you join the SIM to the computer it creates a connection... how is that not clear?

The phone has tethering capability built in, and O2 will happily charge you the tethering bolt-on to use it under their T's & C's... The terms absolutely aren't for data cards, they're specifically stated as iPhone Customer Specific Terms.

It might be unfair that they changed it, but if those terms apply to you it's because you agreed to them. If someone signs up today and wants iPhone, they have to agree to a 2GB cap on AT&T. If they signed up 6 months ago, they have unlimited data (as much as they can consume on the device, non-inclusive of tethering), however if that user wants to have the iPhone 4, that user has to agree to a $325 early termination fee vs their old $175 (max) termination fee.

Companies are in business to make money. If you don't like the way they operate, don't agree to their terms and conditions, but don't sign up for the benefits, and then claim your own (mis)interpretation of their legal contract you agreed to. In the UK you're lucky, you have 5+ options to have an iPhone 4 on 3G. In the US there's only 1 viable option if someone wants iPhone 4, and is why the cellular market in the US is so funky at the present time.

here is where we have to agree to disagree!

Firstly: the Subscriber Identity Module is not the phone, it's the removable card\chip inserted into the phone, one that could be removed and placed in a usb dongle for a laptop.

Second: O2 offered an early upgrade for its customers that wanted iPhone 4 at launch - one of the stipulated terms was that there would be no "cooling off" period for customers that accepted the offer ...i.e. no returns because you weren't happy for whatever reason. All potential upgraders had to agree to these terms.

In light of the reported antenna issue, that stipulation was revoked after Steve Jobs offered Apple customers a full refund if they weren't happy! O2 squirmed around trying to find a way out of this returns agreement, but eventually had to give ground and offer unhappy customers a refund or a new handset - some have tried up to 3 different handsets before getting a refund.

This proves that just because something in the T&C's is agreed to, doesn't mean it is legal (of which the above example is not in the UK) or can't be challenged in a court of law.

Finally: O2 now do an iPhone App that allows users to check on their monthly usage! when I access this service I see my plan includes "Unlimited Data", it shows my calling minutes used\remaining and any extra charges from premium rate numbers and a little meter that shows my Data usage as zero, no matter what time of the month I view it or how much data I access.

Again ..the strength of the T&C's all depend on how you define the word "Unlimited".

g'night.

 

[bella92108]

Again ..the strength of the T&C's all depend on how you define the word "Unlimited".

No it doesn't, has nothing to do with the amount of data you consume. The term states you can only consume it from the device the SIM is in. I understand what a SIM is, thanks.

At the end of the day, your justification shows you know what you're doing is wrong, you're just trying to "stick it to the man" because you feel wronged, which is fine.

"You may not use your SIM Card in, or connected to, any other device" which the sole purpose of MyWi is to allow you to connect your phone (and sim card) to another device. Ugh.

 

[Strawbis]

No it doesn't, has nothing to do with the amount of data you consume. ...

you have missed the point again.

If my contract doesn't allow truly UNLIMITED DATA even when used solely for the iPhone browser, apps, etc. (see "fair usage policy"), then it's not worth the paper it's written on and anything to do with tethering is a moot point.

I'm definitely going now. see ya.

 

[bella92108]

If my contract doesn't allow truly UNLIMITED DATA even when used solely for the iPhone browser, etc.

If you go to an "all you can eat buffet" it's not really all you can eat how you want. You can't take food with you when you leave, nor can you pass it out the window to your kids sitting out in the car. You can try to spin it however you want, but there's always caveat to any promotion, and if you're unable or unwilling to comply, you can either complain, or take your business elsewhere.

You can feel as wronged as you want, but you agreed to the terms.

 

[bella92108]

you have missed the point again.

No I have not, I just don't have the bias you have in the situation. I have nothing to gain or lose, so my observations are quite unbiased.