When they launch the iTMS on Win, they should have a 'free music' day where you can download 10 songs for free. Talk about taking the wind out of Napster's sail...
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Napster 2.0 Beta on Oct 9th
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Re: iTMS
The windows market is a big one. There are a plenty of PC people who like apple products but don't use it because a) it's expensive, b) it doesn't have the software they need, and c) their work environment is pro-PC. Issues B and C are irrelevant here. So the cost issue is the only thing in play. Already PC services are trying to undercut the iTMS by offering 89 cents per song as opposed to 99 cents. And, of course, the iPod carries a premium over the other, lesser-quality players. The iPod has done well so far b/c portable mp3 players is a niche market and early adopters tend to discriminate more. But as this phenomenon becomes more wide-spread, you'll see the cheaper knockoffs taking off as well.
I think Apple has a good shot at being the #1 player in the download music market. But that does not mean they'll own the market like Msoft owns the PC market. If Apple gets only 20% of the market, it should still be really good (prolly beyond their expectations). Apple does well in integrating their products. So being a healthy player in the download market should boost the rest of their product lineup.
Originally posted by 1adonis1
I don't think that iTMS will hit big with Windows, due to the fact that, just as Apple people dislike windows, there are Windows users that dislike Apple so much, that they will not use iTMS just to see it fail.
The windows market is a big one. There are a plenty of PC people who like apple products but don't use it because a) it's expensive, b) it doesn't have the software they need, and c) their work environment is pro-PC. Issues B and C are irrelevant here. So the cost issue is the only thing in play. Already PC services are trying to undercut the iTMS by offering 89 cents per song as opposed to 99 cents. And, of course, the iPod carries a premium over the other, lesser-quality players. The iPod has done well so far b/c portable mp3 players is a niche market and early adopters tend to discriminate more. But as this phenomenon becomes more wide-spread, you'll see the cheaper knockoffs taking off as well.
I think Apple has a good shot at being the #1 player in the download music market. But that does not mean they'll own the market like Msoft owns the PC market. If Apple gets only 20% of the market, it should still be really good (prolly beyond their expectations). Apple does well in integrating their products. So being a healthy player in the download market should boost the rest of their product lineup.
Re: Re: AAC Implementation?
I'm playing AAC files on my PC now. I have a spare Windows NT server. I use iTunes on my iBook to encode and organise the files but Quinntessential Player (http://www.quinnware.com) to play them on the PC. That leaves my iBook with more spare ram and cpu to do other stuff and in any case the PC would be otherwise doing nothing but sharing files.
AAC is already on the PC in Quicktime.
What you're perhaps alluding to is if they've added 'FairPlay' to the PC version of Quicktime. I'd have thought so by now.
I'm playing AAC files on my PC now. I have a spare Windows NT server. I use iTunes on my iBook to encode and organise the files but Quinntessential Player (http://www.quinnware.com) to play them on the PC. That leaves my iBook with more spare ram and cpu to do other stuff and in any case the PC would be otherwise doing nothing but sharing files.
AAC is already on the PC in Quicktime.
What you're perhaps alluding to is if they've added 'FairPlay' to the PC version of Quicktime. I'd have thought so by now.
Re: Re: AAC Implementation?
AAC playback isn't the problem - there's a plugin for WinAmp that will play iTunes encoded (unprotected) .m4a's just fine. And I do that at work everyday.
The DRM may be another story. Apple can rely on serial number of Macs in the firmware to identify a unique machine. There are such things for PC but AFAIK its not a standard how to do it.
I don't think it's a problem for Apple to figure out HOW to do it. It's just that such an effort needs to be a home run from launch date on.
Point: Software - high quality software - TAKES TIME TO WRITE!!! And as the old saying goes "Throwing more programmers at a late project makes it even more late."
Patience.
At least until Thanksgiving. If we don't see iTMS4Win by then, well, then we can all get justifiably upset. "Before end of year" means "Anytime before December 31st!" But not having iTMS4Win in the pipeline in time to spur Christmas gift iPod sales for Windows users would be a serious loss of opportunity.
IMHO.
AAC playback isn't the problem - there's a plugin for WinAmp that will play iTunes encoded (unprotected) .m4a's just fine. And I do that at work everyday.
The DRM may be another story. Apple can rely on serial number of Macs in the firmware to identify a unique machine. There are such things for PC but AFAIK its not a standard how to do it.
I don't think it's a problem for Apple to figure out HOW to do it. It's just that such an effort needs to be a home run from launch date on.
Point: Software - high quality software - TAKES TIME TO WRITE!!! And as the old saying goes "Throwing more programmers at a late project makes it even more late."
Patience.
At least until Thanksgiving. If we don't see iTMS4Win by then, well, then we can all get justifiably upset. "Before end of year" means "Anytime before December 31st!" But not having iTMS4Win in the pipeline in time to spur Christmas gift iPod sales for Windows users would be a serious loss of opportunity.
IMHO.
C'mon Apple! Any day now! Apple blew it when they hadn't even been designing iTMS for Windows until AFTER the Apple Store went online. Typical Apple foot shooting, great idea, blow the implimentation, everyone else copies and takes glory, been this way since Apple revolutionized the peecee world.
Craptacular.
Craptacular.
Considering the RIAA all but neutered Napster I dont think there is much in the way of competition from them other then name recognition.
It is my impression, that Apple never thought to be so succesful in the music bizz. This for one explains why they did not have the PEECEE version ready and are now playing a little catchup. In my mind that is quite alright. Just as Apple had to pave the way with the 5 majors, now the additional demand from new download services will make it easier for Apple to trod down the same path.
Equally important from a European perspective is to come up with a European version.
I am sitting here and have now found 97 songs I would buy outright together with a new and shiny i-pod. Right now I am holding off, as I am waiting for the music store to make its appearance over here and as I figure until then we will have seen at least two revisions to the i-pod.
I do not know if this is examplary of the mac community over here but I am sure that a European access to the music story would boost the i-pod sale quite nicely.
Equally important from a European perspective is to come up with a European version.
I am sitting here and have now found 97 songs I would buy outright together with a new and shiny i-pod. Right now I am holding off, as I am waiting for the music store to make its appearance over here and as I figure until then we will have seen at least two revisions to the i-pod.
I do not know if this is examplary of the mac community over here but I am sure that a European access to the music story would boost the i-pod sale quite nicely.
Originally posted by mactastic
Ooooooo a 10 Gig hard drive you say? Wow that's so... last year.
And yet how many people don't need or care for more then a 10GB hard drive.
Confusion, confusion, confusion...
(or whas that Developpers, developpers, developpers?)
Back on track. Can anyone make a simple bullet list of all the ITMS like services that have been announced or modified/updated since apple announced the ITMS? (MusicMatch? Napster? I know there is more...)
If this continues, we should create a spredsheat with all the suppliers in the "Y" axis and all the offered services and DRM on the "X" Axis for simpler comparaison. Any takers?
Thanks
(or whas that Developpers, developpers, developpers?
)Back on track. Can anyone make a simple bullet list of all the ITMS like services that have been announced or modified/updated since apple announced the ITMS? (MusicMatch? Napster? I know there is more...)
If this continues, we should create a spredsheat with all the suppliers in the "Y" axis and all the offered services and DRM on the "X" Axis for simpler comparaison. Any takers?
Thanks
Re: Confusion, confusion, confusion...
The majors appear to be
BuyMusic.com
Listen.com (Rhapsody, acquired by Real)
MusicMatch.com
Napster 2.0
Microsoft has their european one too.
arn
Originally posted by srobert
(or whas that Developpers, developpers, developpers?
Back on track. Can anyone make a simple bullet list of all the ITMS like services that have been announced or modified/updated since apple announced the ITMS? (MusicMatch? Napster? I know there is more...)
The majors appear to be
BuyMusic.com
Listen.com (Rhapsody, acquired by Real)
MusicMatch.com
Napster 2.0
Microsoft has their european one too.
arn
Apple's doing OK on this
I think Apple is doing OK, and in a good position in terms of the Win app. Their market share for the iPod ensures that there will be a lot of MS users buying when the software is ready. You can also be sure that Apple is working internationally to allow the service to expand.
The real key for me is that this project is just one of a long line of efforts at Apple. Think about all of the products that Apple, "with only 3% market share", is delivering. G5's, Panther, new PBs, new iPods, iSight, updated iMacs plus a ton of user software (in addition to iLife). Throw in the work you know is being done for the future - like G5 PBs - not to mention things we feel sure they are working on, like new iMacs & iBooks. Then, for the hell of it consider the industry leading efforts in engineering (G5 cases) and design levels that no one comes close to.
Apple is doing one hell of a job on a mountain of tasks. The Music Store and iTunes for Windows will be delivered by the end of the year. It's all the other things that get me excited so I, for one, am happy that they are distributing development resources in the balanced way they are.
I think Apple is doing OK, and in a good position in terms of the Win app. Their market share for the iPod ensures that there will be a lot of MS users buying when the software is ready. You can also be sure that Apple is working internationally to allow the service to expand.
The real key for me is that this project is just one of a long line of efforts at Apple. Think about all of the products that Apple, "with only 3% market share", is delivering. G5's, Panther, new PBs, new iPods, iSight, updated iMacs plus a ton of user software (in addition to iLife). Throw in the work you know is being done for the future - like G5 PBs - not to mention things we feel sure they are working on, like new iMacs & iBooks. Then, for the hell of it consider the industry leading efforts in engineering (G5 cases) and design levels that no one comes close to.
Apple is doing one hell of a job on a mountain of tasks. The Music Store and iTunes for Windows will be delivered by the end of the year. It's all the other things that get me excited so I, for one, am happy that they are distributing development resources in the balanced way they are.
Come on apple, get your act togethe and hurry up.
Windows users are gonna have atleast 3 other options by the time you come!
You need to make an impression.
Windows users are gonna have atleast 3 other options by the time you come!
You need to make an impression.
I am not saying that competition is a bad thing, but it would have been nice if Apple had cornered the market first, instead of having to play catch up.
As we all know Apple will have the best product but that doesn't mean it will be the most widely used (ex: M$ windoze)
As we all know Apple will have the best product but that doesn't mean it will be the most widely used (ex: M$ windoze)
Ok - if Apple is so incompetent, then how did they get to be number one with the Ipod? Afterall, they introduced it into a market that was already saturated - and they were the most expensive. Yet they still became number one. Is it written somewhere that to be a Mac user/fan that you have to moan about everything that seems to be lacking with Apple? At some point I think we need to trust the powers that be at Apple and admit that they usually have a good reason for doing something. Despite all of these services coming out now, I think when Apple comes out with ITMS for Win that people will find out what true quality is.
unlimited downloading and burning???
WTF? how will this work??
Users sign up for a year and can download all they want?
I don't see why any record company would go along with that..
I would program a bot to download every possible song.
it's in the Cnet article.
How much will they charge for a years subscription??
WTF? how will this work??
Users sign up for a year and can download all they want?
I don't see why any record company would go along with that..
I would program a bot to download every possible song.
it's in the Cnet article.
How much will they charge for a years subscription??
I don't see why some are claiming that Apple needs to get this out quick. I would rather have them spend their time doing it right. I can see though why it would be advantageous for Apple to release it soon.
In the end, the better product and service will prevail. And as long as Apple devotes the necessary time, coding, and testing for their windows music service, it will come out on top, no doubt in my mind.
But porting something like that to windows is definitely no easy task. But if Apple's windows service turns out to be as good as the Mac's, think of the proliferation of Apple throughout computers everywhere.
Something lingers in my gut though. Can legal music downloads really compete with the likes of Kazaa? Something makes me feel like only a small percentage of people will succumb to the good karma. I think in general, Mac users are more open to embrace ideas like these. Windows users however, generally don't really care, as long as what they have works for them. Free music, who can beat that? I don't think these law suits initiated by the RIAA is having much influence on file traders anyway. So I don't really think Napster or the other music services are the real competition, I think Kazaa and free music is.
Feel free to flame me..I don't really know what I'm talking about anyway. hahaha
In the end, the better product and service will prevail. And as long as Apple devotes the necessary time, coding, and testing for their windows music service, it will come out on top, no doubt in my mind.
But porting something like that to windows is definitely no easy task. But if Apple's windows service turns out to be as good as the Mac's, think of the proliferation of Apple throughout computers everywhere.
Something lingers in my gut though. Can legal music downloads really compete with the likes of Kazaa? Something makes me feel like only a small percentage of people will succumb to the good karma. I think in general, Mac users are more open to embrace ideas like these. Windows users however, generally don't really care, as long as what they have works for them. Free music, who can beat that? I don't think these law suits initiated by the RIAA is having much influence on file traders anyway. So I don't really think Napster or the other music services are the real competition, I think Kazaa and free music is.
Feel free to flame me..I don't really know what I'm talking about anyway. hahaha
Originally posted by Blaaze
Feel free to flame me..I don't really know what I'm talking about anyway. hahaha
Actually, I agree with you. I don't see how these services will be able to stay alive in the long run. I also agree that Mac users are more eager or apt to buy their music from Apple just because they love them and want to see them succeed.
On the other hand, as a former Win user, I did not give a crap about the computer or OS and they could go to hell for all I cared.
I think much differently now.
iPod is just too cool
Ok, granted it would be nice for a windows version, but one great thing the iTunes has going for it is the cool factor. And tonight on NBC Apple got some free promo that exemplifies the cool factor.
In the ER espisode where Dr. Carter goes back to the African congo to retrieve Dr. Kovac's body what does he carry with him? Why an iPod of course! What else would you want in the Affrican congo - certainly not a napster mp3 player!
Ok, granted it would be nice for a windows version, but one great thing the iTunes has going for it is the cool factor. And tonight on NBC Apple got some free promo that exemplifies the cool factor.
In the ER espisode where Dr. Carter goes back to the African congo to retrieve Dr. Kovac's body what does he carry with him? Why an iPod of course! What else would you want in the Affrican congo - certainly not a napster mp3 player!
Re: Steve's next keynote speech
Oh, and one more thing...
No iTMS for Windows...Ever...
MWUHUHAHAHA!
Applause.
Sometimes, we act like lemmings, too.
Oh, and one more thing...
No iTMS for Windows...Ever...
MWUHUHAHAHA!
Applause.
Sometimes, we act like lemmings, too.
In Europe there's only Microsoft's ODS. Apple are already beaten to the market here. The one plus point is that we can't use WMA files on Macs so Apple can still rule the Mac market.
I'm very surprised Microsoft haven't rolled it out in the USA too but I guess they are doing what Apple is doing in the USA - testing the market.
That's who Apple are competing against - The others are minor players and will be lucky to succeed against Microsoft although 'Napster' has a good brand name even if it's not quite the same as Napster 1.0. Microsoft have the advantage of an incumbent market - ie. anyone with Windows that they can push a Windows media player upgrade too, just as Apple has done with iTunes4. Watch out for what they do with the Mac version of WMP though.
I'm very surprised Microsoft haven't rolled it out in the USA too but I guess they are doing what Apple is doing in the USA - testing the market.
That's who Apple are competing against - The others are minor players and will be lucky to succeed against Microsoft although 'Napster' has a good brand name even if it's not quite the same as Napster 1.0. Microsoft have the advantage of an incumbent market - ie. anyone with Windows that they can push a Windows media player upgrade too, just as Apple has done with iTunes4. Watch out for what they do with the Mac version of WMP though.
The waiting game...
This constant tease and tickle from Apple is starting to annoy me, if they truly want their 10% share of the market they have got to get iTunes for Windows out there, the iPods and the G5 have many PCers on the fence. But as we have witnessed before they'll turn quickly when the standard cheap and ugly get out on the market. The market surge from the iMacs in the education market has dried up somewhat, and I have heard of two schools in my area that have gone Dell. This software should hold the preset standing and further thier/our plans for a larger world market.
PS - Shouldn't they integrate a phone into the iPod?!
This constant tease and tickle from Apple is starting to annoy me, if they truly want their 10% share of the market they have got to get iTunes for Windows out there, the iPods and the G5 have many PCers on the fence. But as we have witnessed before they'll turn quickly when the standard cheap and ugly get out on the market. The market surge from the iMacs in the education market has dried up somewhat, and I have heard of two schools in my area that have gone Dell. This software should hold the preset standing and further thier/our plans for a larger world market.
PS - Shouldn't they integrate a phone into the iPod?!
Re: The waiting game...
Tease and tickle? So they spend more than one year developing an application for another platform than their own. Of course the Mac version will be out faster since they had everything ready but the DRM-system...with the win version they have to invent the wheel again so to speak.
Absolutely not...not until they get rid of the harddrive in it anyway.
Tease and tickle? So they spend more than one year developing an application for another platform than their own. Of course the Mac version will be out faster since they had everything ready but the DRM-system...with the win version they have to invent the wheel again so to speak.
Absolutely not...not until they get rid of the harddrive in it anyway.