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NBC Rhetoric vs. iTunes Increases
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I guess I'm a little out of the loop here but the only thing I've ever heard was a rumor that NBC was paying apple to carry their stuff. Could you link to an article or something? I must have been on vacation when that was a big issue.
Thanks! (and judging from other posters comments they seem to the think that same thing in terms of "free revenue")
But really - business wise is still makes 0 sense at all. They should have hired a company to do a comprehensive survey before they made this monetarily idiotic move. I mean, good Lord, iTunes video sucks right now and people STILL buy it. Imagine when they finally sack up and make it 720p - it'll really be selling like hot cakes.
^^^^ yup. TV is paid for (many times over) by advertising!!!!! if this moron thinks he's got a clue about tech. he obviously doesnt have a DVR or know how to use one... or maybe a slingbox if i wanna steam anytime.
I think all of you guys make some really good and valid points.
Apple wont include TV Tuners to record to their Apple TV because at this stage in the game its much more profitable to make a constant flow of revenue through episode sales.
NBC looks like their shooting themselves in the foot, by not making money with iTunes, and offering the episodes for free via very low quality flash formats. But its not true, they are looking to make even more money than they do with iTunes.
Their hope is not to make a flow of revenue like Apple and especially not with Apple, but to get people to buy DVD Box Sets, that is where their big money is. These Box sets are expensive and very much desired if the best quality you can get on your PC is flash.
If Apple continues to makes sales you have less and less potential DVD Box Set buyers. And, if NBC is up and arms right now, its because those 15 Million they made with Apple is quite miniscule to what they could have made with DVD Box sets.
Their 40% content provision point is just another excuse, and has very little to do with the true reason for their iTunes cut back.
And if you think about it, if advertisement companies pay only for advertisements watched, (like they're planning to) the networks would be up in arms about that and in all fairness, it should be that way, but the point is, these guys are greedy old school fat cats, nuff said.
Also, if Apple, with their influence and control seek to lower the prices of these episodes to .99 then it nets Apple more money, and NBC and the like lose a greater majority of possible DVD Box sets when people have no problem with spending .99 for a good episode.
And from NBC Stand point, it makes sense. But from the customer's view point, NBC wants our money, more of it. And nothing makes it clearer than observing other Network's relationship with iTunes, like Fox, or CBS who express contentment with their Apple partner. They even put shows on their for free, why, because they're trying to get more popular, where as NBC is the real juggernaut and the true competition.
The music aspect is a bit different only in the sense, there are no realy CD Box Sets when buying a single album. So Universal doesn't have a cannibalizing effect to be concerned about, and they too have to resort to selling music on the internet. However they just want your money... they want to charge as much as it makes them happy. Their efforts will fail though I won't buy any song for more than .99 and I definitly won't buy anything through any other service than iTunes, why, because iTunes wants music to be cheap.
What does it all mean, it means exactly what you guys have been saying! These guys are jealous that Apple makes money off of them. So they're trying to be independant with Apple, trying everything in the book. I for one will stick with iTunes.
Jeah!
Apple wont include TV Tuners to record to their Apple TV because at this stage in the game its much more profitable to make a constant flow of revenue through episode sales.
NBC looks like their shooting themselves in the foot, by not making money with iTunes, and offering the episodes for free via very low quality flash formats. But its not true, they are looking to make even more money than they do with iTunes.
Their hope is not to make a flow of revenue like Apple and especially not with Apple, but to get people to buy DVD Box Sets, that is where their big money is. These Box sets are expensive and very much desired if the best quality you can get on your PC is flash.
If Apple continues to makes sales you have less and less potential DVD Box Set buyers. And, if NBC is up and arms right now, its because those 15 Million they made with Apple is quite miniscule to what they could have made with DVD Box sets.
Their 40% content provision point is just another excuse, and has very little to do with the true reason for their iTunes cut back.
And if you think about it, if advertisement companies pay only for advertisements watched, (like they're planning to) the networks would be up in arms about that and in all fairness, it should be that way, but the point is, these guys are greedy old school fat cats, nuff said.
Also, if Apple, with their influence and control seek to lower the prices of these episodes to .99 then it nets Apple more money, and NBC and the like lose a greater majority of possible DVD Box sets when people have no problem with spending .99 for a good episode.
And from NBC Stand point, it makes sense. But from the customer's view point, NBC wants our money, more of it. And nothing makes it clearer than observing other Network's relationship with iTunes, like Fox, or CBS who express contentment with their Apple partner. They even put shows on their for free, why, because they're trying to get more popular, where as NBC is the real juggernaut and the true competition.
The music aspect is a bit different only in the sense, there are no realy CD Box Sets when buying a single album. So Universal doesn't have a cannibalizing effect to be concerned about, and they too have to resort to selling music on the internet. However they just want your money... they want to charge as much as it makes them happy. Their efforts will fail though I won't buy any song for more than .99 and I definitly won't buy anything through any other service than iTunes, why, because iTunes wants music to be cheap.
What does it all mean, it means exactly what you guys have been saying! These guys are jealous that Apple makes money off of them. So they're trying to be independant with Apple, trying everything in the book. I for one will stick with iTunes.
Jeah!
The record industry makes it sound like they don't have enough money to put food on the table. Are they serious? They could charge $4 an album and still make good money. Sure the rappers wouldn't be able to drive four Bentleys, they would be limited to one. But since when do people who make music deserve to live OUTRAGEOUS lifestyles, while others with more "mundane" jobs are perfectly happy with the salary they make?
The whole media industry makes me sick.
The whole media industry makes me sick.
Actually, most DVD box sets cost less than iTunes.
A season typically costs $30-50 and contains 22-26 episodes. For a per-episode cost of $1.15-2.27. From this retail price, you have to subtract out retailer mark-up, manufacturing and distribution costs. A studio is unlikely to make more than $1 per episode from DVD sales.
In contrast, iTunes sales are $2 each. I don't know what percentage Apple takes, but I would expect the studio to get at least $1.50 from each episode purchased.
Yes, there are some box sets that are very expensive, but most are as I described.
It's not.
They're upset about losing any source of revenue. They haven't gotten it through their skulls that the new medium is more profitable than the old.
Ultimately, it's about control, not money.
I can see a lot of logic in this from a business point of view. NBC is not going to allow apple to dictated the cost of the shows. In music Apple already forced the price on the record companies and as other points out some music is worth more than others yet apple charges the same amount.
NBC pulling out now is going to be a heavier blow that part of Apple business because now they have a much higher risk of the other networks doing the same thing. I think getting part of the money off iPod sells could of been talk out but apple refused to really work out a deal. NBC wanted to try a flexible pricing system on ONE show just to see how it worked. Apple could even pick it but apple refused to.
Honestly from a business point of view this was a good move. Short term they eat a lost but long term they keep control and more than likely are going to make more money. Also if the other networks follow suit which the chances of happening have greatly increased because one big player already had the guts to do it means other are more than likely willing to so they get a little more control over the pricing system.
NBC pulling out now is going to be a heavier blow that part of Apple business because now they have a much higher risk of the other networks doing the same thing. I think getting part of the money off iPod sells could of been talk out but apple refused to really work out a deal. NBC wanted to try a flexible pricing system on ONE show just to see how it worked. Apple could even pick it but apple refused to.
Honestly from a business point of view this was a good move. Short term they eat a lost but long term they keep control and more than likely are going to make more money. Also if the other networks follow suit which the chances of happening have greatly increased because one big player already had the guts to do it means other are more than likely willing to so they get a little more control over the pricing system.
I get what you're saying but take into account that, Retailers pay NBC to buy the Boxed sets and when you buy a set, you're not paying NBC, NBC has been paid. These retailers buy in massive bulk filling 100s of stores each. This is lucrative for NBC, if these Boxed sets don't sell NBC loses big time. The manufacturing cost is minimal as the NBC family of companies own their own distribution house. And I don't think the 2 dollar per episode mark is a significant measure of things because Apple wants to drop the online price to .99 cents, what does that tell you? Does it mean, apple wants to lose its cut? or NBC? Or that even at 2$ the customer is still getting ripped off?
I do agree with you about the iTunes copy being cheap, but I think what bothers NBC is that this time around NBC has to pay Apple to have their media downloadable via iTunes, something they are certainly not used to.
You're right in your line of thought though, its not that they can't be content with making money with Apple, but that they aren't and wish to make more...
you hit it right on the head...
No matter how NBC tries to spin this story, they will still come off as a greedy corporation, angry that Apple will not charge more for TV shows. I don't see how NBC can claim that they are doing what's best for the consumer. Apple is the only one in this arguement that has said that they want to offer lower prices for TV shows. This "flexible pricing" buzzword that NBC keeps throwing around is just another term for higher prices.
Don't be fooled, people.
Don't be fooled, people.
Yup, you're right. That's what I meant.
All the pieces are there. Part of what prompted my "what company should Apple buy" post. And NOT because Apple needs to "buy" anyone, but timing is crucial, and if iTunes is any indication (or even the new iMovie), Apple is great at integrating outside work and folding it into its own ecosystem... especially when it has the same design aesthetics. They need to make it OBVIOUS that you can rip your existing DVDs too and play them through AppleTV (or whatever it becomes) at hidef. If necessary, set some legal precedents for fair use... although apparently the CSS nazis have closed the hole Kaleidescape was prancing through.
I'm sick of the waiting and the whinning. The ooos and ahhs. No more foreplay... you hear that Apple! Let's wake the neighbors. Let's hurt ourselves in embarrassing ways. You hear me? Bring on the SEX.
~ CB
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The Jobs/iTunes philosophy is a one price purchase, BUT, across many platforms (CPU, handheld, phone, servers) and medias (burn to CD, iPod, Phones, TV/audio servers).
The main complaint of media companies is Jobs will not budge on "recent releases" having an up-charge. The variance from one-price.
Jobs ought to find some "value added feature" you get with the new release for the up-charge price.
That will appease all sides simultaneously.
BTW Steevie-poo, I want a $mill for the idea. I'll take it in Mac Minis or MacBooks. :-|
Rocketman
The Jobs/iTunes philosophy is a one price purchase, BUT, across many platforms (CPU, handheld, phone, servers) and medias (burn to CD, iPod, Phones, TV/audio servers).
The main complaint of media companies is Jobs will not budge on "recent releases" having an up-charge. The variance from one-price.
Jobs ought to find some "value added feature" you get with the new release for the up-charge price.
That will appease all sides simultaneously.
BTW Steevie-poo, I want a $mill for the idea. I'll take it in Mac Minis or MacBooks. :-|
Rocketman
You mean upcharge like iTunes Plus, and the pricing difference between new releases and "library" titles with movies? Universal/Amazon undercut pricing with iTunes Plus in the music area, and Universal doesn't seem at all interested in iTunes movies. Meh. No satisfying some people. Value-added for new releases of TV Shows wouldn't make any sense, considering they're already available for FREE on the NBC/ABC's website. It really can't survive a surcharge operation.
~ CB
Well, they are a greedy corp, so that perception is spot-on.
Agreed. This NBC whine is about control, not money.
And given that its only my consumer wallet that can reward (or punish) the corporation, I use my wallet to vote with. I've put together a list of older albums that I want for Christmas...but also made it clear that I want them only bought off of the USED rack. Take that RIAA.
Insofar as NBC, my VCR still works fine, and the Feb '09 transition to ATSC won't be a problem.
-hh
You know, the music industry is trying to find a way to tax the reseller market. I guess CDs last too long and can pass through many hands in its lifetime. I myself have some 20 year olds. They are stuck on the concept of selling the product over and over again, made to fade, landfill in 2 years, money train. They are already loosing their stable of actors, um..musicians to the do-it-yourself/sundance/Indie types. NBCs world is coming to an end, I just hope they don't go postal and end up taking a lot of little people with them.
I remember when Hollywood used to control everything about their stars, that didn't last. NBC wants to control everything they believe they own. They see everything slipping through their fingers. Going forward the pie is going to have more slices and once its eaten, that's it.
I remember when Hollywood used to control everything about their stars, that didn't last. NBC wants to control everything they believe they own. They see everything slipping through their fingers. Going forward the pie is going to have more slices and once its eaten, that's it.
Aren't these arguments similar to the folks who want to buy an iPhone and unlock it?
"But I shouldn't be forced to use AT&T!"
"But I don't live in a country where Apple sells it!"
And then all the Apple loyalists yell at them and say if they want to use an iPhone, they need to follow Apples rules; if the rules don't work for them, they should get something else; etc.
So if you want to watch NBC's content, you should follow their rules. If you don't like what they're asking, then you should watch something else.
These are their shows that they produce and they shouldn't have to cater to their distributor's whims. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I respect their right to want to have control of pricing and such. It's bad enough when companies like Walmart make record labels and movie studios create clean or edited versions of their content - "or else!"... it's no better when Apple wants to dictate pricing for things they had no hand in creating.
I do have to admit that the hulu videos look better than the ones you're asked to pay for on iTunes...
the iTunes video quality is not impressive at all...
the iTunes video quality is not impressive at all...
... and for that most part, that's exactly what I do. They're brain-dead policies (in all areas, not just with respect to Apple) have caused me to stop watching most of their shows.
Does this mean I'm not allowed to complain at the same time?
Naw...iTunes is way too entrenched its almost an iconic term/item/action in the public consciousness.
youre correct-they should be given total freedom to shoot themselves in the foot if they so choose: it still a free country....(but for how long?)
between DVDs, internet and cable, I almost never watch the big 5 networks ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, WB (or that "My" channel)
Most of what they serve is garbage or lies...
Now there is an idea. I'd love that but they're still generating a lot more money through ads on tv.
Who is "they"? The producers (and the actors and everybody else who works for the production company) get what the network gives them. Those contracts are negotiated before the show ever airs. If the show becomes popular, and can command high prices for ads, all that extra money remains with the network and doesn't go anywhere else.
Producing shows direct-to-customer solves this problem - the production company sees increased profit from a popular show. Of course, the producers can be just as money-grubbing as the networks are, but there's better odds of this money making its way to the creative talent (writers, actors, etc.) under this model than under the broadcast model.
Of course, the downside is that if the show is a dud, the production company may lose a fortune, whereas the network will absorb this loss in the broadcast model (subsidizing the duds with profits from the successes.)
The reason why is that the itunes store and the ipod are locked together. Apple cannot sell the ipods in the numbers they do without the itunes store. The itunes store would be nothing if it were not for the content in the store. Thus there is a direct link between having the music and videos available and sales of the ipod line.
Zucker is still an idiot. Your argument (if it is even indeed his as well) is very, very flawed. Until Toshiba, Sony, and/or Hitachi pays studios simply to produce devices capable of showing their content (why buy a TV or DVD player if you have nothing to play on them), this is never-neverland argument.
Maybe congress should allows studios to collect fees from all makers of electronic devices. They gotta et content from somewhere, right? --No, this is corporate penis-envy, plain and simple. It's braven, stupid, and pathetically reminiscent of the struggle embodied in Atlas Shrugged (which lately is becoming its own version of Godwin's Law).
~ CB