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Nearly All Apple Hardware Costs More Than the Average PC
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Microsoft doesn't sell PCs, so the design/look is not their decision to make.
Dell makes an equivalent if not better display.
UltraSharp... look 'em up.
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That is a very odd justification to differentiate the Mac mini. It would imply that the Mac Pro is not a "full-featured Mac."
If you stick to Apple products, the Mac Mini is $1700 with a display, keyboard and mouse added in. Hardly the cheapest computer Apple makes! The Mac Pro isn't full-featured either, its true -- it needs a display added to it, though it does include a keyboard and mouse.
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The headline isn’t a slam on Apple, just an interesting fact.
Apple doesn’t make disposable or low-end machines. They make mid-range and high-end machines, which last longer, resale higher, are more reliable and cost less in the end than many low-end machines from other companies.
If you look at machines Apple DOES make, and compare to similar-spec (but lower quality with a lesser OS) systems from other makers, Apple is often cheaper.
Try to buy the closest thing to an 11" Air from Dell, say: solid-state drive, Sandy Bridge chips, lighted keys, ultra-light, ultra-thin, 1366x768. You’ll end up paying $600 more, and still getting something twice as thick, made of plastic, without bundled software! It will have a better GPU, but will be lacking vs. the Air in many other specs.
Apple doesn’t make disposable or low-end machines. They make mid-range and high-end machines, which last longer, resale higher, are more reliable and cost less in the end than many low-end machines from other companies.
If you look at machines Apple DOES make, and compare to similar-spec (but lower quality with a lesser OS) systems from other makers, Apple is often cheaper.
Try to buy the closest thing to an 11" Air from Dell, say: solid-state drive, Sandy Bridge chips, lighted keys, ultra-light, ultra-thin, 1366x768. You’ll end up paying $600 more, and still getting something twice as thick, made of plastic, without bundled software! It will have a better GPU, but will be lacking vs. the Air in many other specs.
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You missed the part about "most inexpensive full-featured Mac".
Look at the samsung 7 series. I proves that apple does have a so called tax and its a lot. the base level 15 inch macbook pros are 1800. These start at around 1000-1100 and the base model has everything the macbook pro has including an aluminum case. It also has a better screen (view angles, contrast, resolution), numpad on the keyboard, more ports, same weight if not lighter, 9 hour battery life, 6gb of ram standard, standard 750gb 7200rpm drive with expresscache, standard core i7, and a 6490m graphics card (optional 6750m available).
http://www.samsung.com/us/article/series-7-notebook-style-speed-and-power
A pretty loaded one comes in at about 1300. You'd pay way past 2000 for this from apple.
http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/laptops/NP700Z5A-S01US
This article/comparison is pointless:
- Mac computers are more expensive. We all know that.
- It buys into Apple's rhetorics that the iPad is a computer. It's a tablet with only a handful of actual computer software ported to it. iPads are not computers (unless you consider the iPhone a computer too). MacBooks are computers, because I can do the same thing on them (albeit slower) than I can on an iMac or a Mac Pro. I can only do a fraction of those things with an iPad.
How many regular people have only an iPad?
- Mac computers are more expensive. We all know that.
- It buys into Apple's rhetorics that the iPad is a computer. It's a tablet with only a handful of actual computer software ported to it. iPads are not computers (unless you consider the iPhone a computer too). MacBooks are computers, because I can do the same thing on them (albeit slower) than I can on an iMac or a Mac Pro. I can only do a fraction of those things with an iPad.
How many regular people have only an iPad?
More expensive than the equivalent PC? So what?
I know I'd rather pay for a better made, more reliable (and prettier) machine than something horrible and ugly from, say Acer.
Not to say that I use Macs exclusively - I can and do use Windows, but it makes me moan! The quality of screens in most laptops are absolute crap anyway - glossy yes but awful colour depth and so obviously TN, whereas the colours on all modern Macs just seem to pop!
I know I'd rather pay for a better made, more reliable (and prettier) machine than something horrible and ugly from, say Acer.
Not to say that I use Macs exclusively - I can and do use Windows, but it makes me moan! The quality of screens in most laptops are absolute crap anyway - glossy yes but awful colour depth and so obviously TN, whereas the colours on all modern Macs just seem to pop!
Okay but you can argue Apple makes niche stuff. A lot of people do not care about stuff being Air thin. People don't just say "Man I wish this was a mm thinner" doesn't happen. ALuminum body on laptops are not expensive. Samsung did a 7 series which has a good build and is far cheaper. Its the truth. iMac... where's the headless one? Mini is niche and form factor limits it.
Splitting hairs IMO man. Where is Apple's laptop with a workstation class GPU? Hell where is the workstation GPU in the Mac Pro which costs $1200 more than a dell with the EXACT same specs and a better card on the dell. Case is better on the Apple but sorry that doesnt cut it. No more car analogies either, two WAY different things for people in the know about car manufacturing.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/30/samsung-unveils-series-7-laptops-we-go-hands-on/
Samsung 7 series proves the point with a bang. Not even close.
You’re comparing to a computer you build yourself?
Obviously anything you build yourself is cheaper but more hassle. Build a car, a house, a computer... pocket the savings! (And yes, you might have some fun along the way! Not great service/support, though.)
You should also be saying, then, that every PC brand is expensive too. You can’t say “Apple is expensive” and then pretend all PCs cost the same as home-made ones assembled from parts. But home-building is a very niche activity anyway--awesomely cool in my view (you can even build a Mac!) but appropriate for very few users.
Out of Context
With regard to comparing the iPad to a computer, you are taking Steve's meaning of "computer" way out of context. The two devices are not even in the same ballpark. And if you can't see that for yourself, maybe you should stick to rumors and not analysis.
With regard to comparing the iPad to a computer, you are taking Steve's meaning of "computer" way out of context. The two devices are not even in the same ballpark. And if you can't see that for yourself, maybe you should stick to rumors and not analysis.
My thoughts exactly!
There's a Mac G4 tower in my house that my family's been using (more or less) for 10 years. It's still cranking, despite the 800 MHz processor. Never had a meltdown or a kernel panic. I guess we got our money's worth out of that one, eh?
Wish they'd lower it just a little. I don't mind paying a premium for quality, but Apple do take the piss sometimes.
E.g: Standard resolution on the 13" MacBook Pro when the 13" Air has high resolution. The quality of some of the screens they toss in their laptops too (Samsung v LG screens) - they know one is poorer than the other..
E.g: Standard resolution on the 13" MacBook Pro when the 13" Air has high resolution. The quality of some of the screens they toss in their laptops too (Samsung v LG screens) - they know one is poorer than the other..
A bit of a straw man here: an Air vs. a cheap PC (or the very best equivalent Dell/Alienware can offer!) isn’t a few mm, it’s half or 1/3 as thick! It matters. And the resulting Air is not niche: it’s a runaway best seller, from the company whose computer sales are skyrocketing vs. everyone else.
As for that Samsung... it’s the usual case of a similarly-priced PC having SOME specs higher than a Mac, SOME specs lower, yet Microsoft defenders will cherry-pick only certain specs to make the Samsung seem like more for your money. It isn’t. (Software bundle and OS features? PC fans would list them... but only if the PC was the one that had them!) It may still be a great choice for some—Apple doesn’t make an equivalent exactly—but it’s not evidence of Apple overcharging.
Look at the Air’s most expensive spec: all SSD, no spinning platter. The Samsung cuts that corner. Fair enough, and still a decent choice for some—but that saves Samsung money and can’t be ignored.
I myself won’t be going back to spinning HD, now that I know how blindingly fast my Air is due to being all-SSD. Speed isn’t just GHz!
(The Samsung is also comparing a new Samsung model with an outgoing Mac model; if you look at the Pro, that is. Price vs. what you get always has a stair-step pattern over time.)
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This makes no sense to me. Because the ASP is far apart, a new comparison with an average of 3 different products makes more sense? Then why not take on the ASP of a windows Mobile phone with a windows laptop? I just can't understand why adding ASPs makes sense in this context.
Can you please read the article?
I really like my Apple hardware and software, too - but can you please chill out? What does the article state?
1. The ASP of Macs is twice the ASP of Windows PCs
That's all. That's a fact. You know, what a fact is, right? And the article says that Apple does this by design - they only build computers they can be proud of. And such devices cost more (on average) than "all possible configurations" (on average). Not surprising, I agree, but it's a nice fun fact: When you buy a random Mac you get twice as much value as when you buy a random PC - at least if you assume a correlation between price and value (which I generally (!) do).
Yes, that's no rumor. Yes, that's no news. But getting personal and/or all defensive just seems pretty weak.
I really like my Apple hardware and software, too - but can you please chill out? What does the article state?
1. The ASP of Macs is twice the ASP of Windows PCs
That's all. That's a fact. You know, what a fact is, right? And the article says that Apple does this by design - they only build computers they can be proud of. And such devices cost more (on average) than "all possible configurations" (on average). Not surprising, I agree, but it's a nice fun fact: When you buy a random Mac you get twice as much value as when you buy a random PC - at least if you assume a correlation between price and value (which I generally (!) do).
Yes, that's no rumor. Yes, that's no news. But getting personal and/or all defensive just seems pretty weak.
I think there is the problem right there. Apple is not selling cheap computers. If they did people would buy them. But they don't and that's why they have 10% of the market and not 50% or more. I am not saying it's right or wrong; it's what it is.
The second thing to consider is to actually make proper comparisons. Take laptops. On Apple side there are MBPs. On the PC side one should distinguish between consumer (cheaper) and business (more expensive) laptops. If you tale Dell latitudes and compare similarly specs laptops you'll get surprisingly close to Apple prices. I had Latitude before and it lasted me 6+ years without any problems (I reinstalled Windows XP couple times and in its final years I ran Ubuntu on it).
My point is, Apple laptops are not (too) overpriced when compared to business-class PCs. Now, why would you pay for business laptop rather that $500 Dell XPS that's a different question.
Cheers, R>
The second thing to consider is to actually make proper comparisons. Take laptops. On Apple side there are MBPs. On the PC side one should distinguish between consumer (cheaper) and business (more expensive) laptops. If you tale Dell latitudes and compare similarly specs laptops you'll get surprisingly close to Apple prices. I had Latitude before and it lasted me 6+ years without any problems (I reinstalled Windows XP couple times and in its final years I ran Ubuntu on it).
My point is, Apple laptops are not (too) overpriced when compared to business-class PCs. Now, why would you pay for business laptop rather that $500 Dell XPS that's a different question.
Cheers, R>
My thoughts exactly!
There's a Mac G4 tower in my house that my family's been using (more or less) for 10 years. It's still cranking, despite the 800 MHz processor. Never had a meltdown or a kernel panic. I guess we got our money's worth out of that one, eh?
The g4 towers especially around 2003 were relatively cheap compared to how much apple wants for a tradional desktop today. And apple has had its fare share of disaster machines like the powermac g5's, 8600m gt macbook pros.
I'll just leave this here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Yu0qeb_rJYU#t=10s
Steve Jobs: We don't ship junk
"Our goal is to make the best personal computers in the world... and to make products we are proud to sell and would recommend to our family and friends.
But I have to tell you... there is some stuff in our industry that we wouldn't be proud to ship. We can't do it.... we just can't ship junk"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Yu0qeb_rJYU#t=10s
Steve Jobs: We don't ship junk
"Our goal is to make the best personal computers in the world... and to make products we are proud to sell and would recommend to our family and friends.
But I have to tell you... there is some stuff in our industry that we wouldn't be proud to ship. We can't do it.... we just can't ship junk"
Re : Cannibalisation
I used to have 3x home made PCs.
Home made because all my PC are VERY VERY quiet - and each cost me > $1000 to make. (see SPCR for examples). Two PCs ran Win7, one ran Ubuntu Linux.
Now I have 1x PC and an iPad2.
Soon I might have 1x Mac and an iPad2, but I have yet to answer the "dual boot or Virtual" Win7 software question. I went through all that with Ubuntu and there is no really good answer IMO except to continue to run a "real" Win7 PC. I will probably keep a "real" Win7 PC and the iPad, but any new PC will be a Mac of some sort.
So in 2 years I have moved from 3 - 0 (Win - Apple) to probably 1 - 2.
Pretty typical I would guess. Oh - and I had used Win excusively from 1992 to now.
I used to have 3x home made PCs.
Home made because all my PC are VERY VERY quiet - and each cost me > $1000 to make. (see SPCR for examples). Two PCs ran Win7, one ran Ubuntu Linux.
Now I have 1x PC and an iPad2.
Soon I might have 1x Mac and an iPad2, but I have yet to answer the "dual boot or Virtual" Win7 software question. I went through all that with Ubuntu and there is no really good answer IMO except to continue to run a "real" Win7 PC. I will probably keep a "real" Win7 PC and the iPad, but any new PC will be a Mac of some sort.
So in 2 years I have moved from 3 - 0 (Win - Apple) to probably 1 - 2.
Pretty typical I would guess. Oh - and I had used Win excusively from 1992 to now.
Because they're all that much better than their average PC counterparts:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20108336-17/apple-tops-in-customer-satisfaction-for-8th-year/
https://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/2...isfaction-survey-for-eighth-consecutive-time/
http://www.padgadget.com/2011/09/21/acsi-apple-tops-the-charts-for-customer-satisfaction/
https://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/0...rankings-of-smartphone-consumer-satisfaction/
And Apple sees record sales as a result. Because the hardware and software is designed and laser-focused for a single purpose: superior User Experience.
You get what you pay for.
And speaking for myself (and no doubt more than a few others), they're worth every penny - especially over the long term.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20108336-17/apple-tops-in-customer-satisfaction-for-8th-year/
https://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/2...isfaction-survey-for-eighth-consecutive-time/
http://www.padgadget.com/2011/09/21/acsi-apple-tops-the-charts-for-customer-satisfaction/
https://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/0...rankings-of-smartphone-consumer-satisfaction/
And Apple sees record sales as a result. Because the hardware and software is designed and laser-focused for a single purpose: superior User Experience.
You get what you pay for.
And speaking for myself (and no doubt more than a few others), they're worth every penny - especially over the long term.
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