Exactly. The existence of the iPad alone does NOT contradict Jobs, at least not yet. In a sense the iPad does contain a full fledged computer on the inside, but the methods and mechanisms for interacting with it are far too limited to consider it as a general purpose computer replacement. The Macintosh series is tailored for actively CREATING content while the iPad series is tailored for passively CONSUMING what someone else has already created on much more versatile hardware. That is not to say the iPad cannot be used to create content from scratch, obviously it can, but it is not well suited for the task in my view. I find it clumsy and annoying when used for this purpose. Over time perhaps the iPad will become the equivalent of a full fledged personal computer, but for now it seems quite a long way off yet. The Mac Mini is much harder to dismiss however. I honestly cannot think of anything it can't do that I would expect any modern computer to be able to accomplish.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Nearly All Apple Hardware Costs More Than the Average PC
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
This is a rumor?
Yeah. It's not a rumor... it's not news... it's not commentary or analysis (it seems to be starting to make a point here and there but never actually does)...
I don't know what this is supposed to be.
They could have just posted the first graph. All the rest of it is useless.
Of course he thinks the iPad is cannibalizing the PC market more than the mac market. He sells Mac's! I'd imagine the Mac is getting cannibalized more than the PC because of the price variation. Macs are a grand at their cheapest. You can get a decent PC for the price of an iPad.
Compare profit share between HP and Dell and Apple. That's what really matters, and what this article is all about. Other companies are selling bargain basement products with hardly any margin. Apple is selling lots of premium products with very heavy margin.
Apple is selling phones and tablets for more than other companies can sell entire computers for!
I'd say most people wouldn't give a crap what it's made of as long as it works. And if plastic bothers you so much, there are PC's out there made of other things.
And could you please elaborate on "PC's are trying to go up to Mac levels" I don't quite get what you mean, levels in what?
I like the hardware in those as much as I like the hardware inside Apple's hardware. (Hate) I am going to wait for Trinity and pray AMD can get its act together. My main concern is the GPU performance over just raw CPU on the road. After that SSDs are getting cheaper everyday. Like today's OCZ SSD fire sale, if you can stomach the controller.I'd say most people wouldn't give a crap what it's made of as long as it works. And if plastic bothers you so much, there are PC's out there made of other things.
And could you please elaborate on "PC's are trying to go up to Mac levels" I don't quite get what you mean, levels in what?
No not even close. The dell vostro desktop machines can be bought with windows 7 pro on them with a dual core intel, 4gb of ram, and a 7200rpm drive for under 400 . And frankly businesses could care less if their machine is small. These machines aren't junk as Steve Jobs would say. They are faster and more powerful than the mac mini which costs more, but they aren't sleek enough for him. No one honestly cares if their desktop is sleek. These aren't huge porkers like the mac pro. They are very easy to put somewhere and are quiet. Apple needs to make an option like this if they want to be taken seriously by enterprises.
That's largely true, since it's basically buy-as-cheap-as-possible-and-use without regard to how well the machines hold up long term.
The design, materials, rigidity, construction tolerances, etc., which aren't usually much of a concern with those budget, $500 machines, seem to make a difference with many Apple products.
I've got a closet full of cheap laptops from Dell, Asus, Compaq with snapped off power connectors, broken hinges, broken/faulty keyboards and trackpads.
It's not unlike the difference with the leather/seating materials used in a Corvette vs. a Porsche. A couple of yeas of entering/exiting in a C6, the bolsters are worn out, the same duration in a C4S? The seats looks brand new.
Though maybe in the end it's simply the PC market following a more "disposable" model. For the price of a MBP, you could replace your PC 3-4 times (even though I find swapping machines sort of debilitating ...)
Well, when you start getting into the more "exotic" materials, the prices start to even out quite a bit. I've been cross shopping some high[er] end ultra-portables, and the nice metal chassis, long battery life machines (and I'm sure you know) get pretty pricey (well into MBA/MBP territory).
Junk = low margins is what he was saying between the lines. They will make no option. I care if my car is sexy, I could care less if someone thinks my PC looks sexy. Thats just weird.
I love the iPad... but it's not a $500 computer. It can browse the web and display media, but it's still a locked-down operating system with strict content controls, sandboxed applications, and very little peripheral support. On top of serious issues with tasks as simple as data input. If I could install a Linux distro on my iPad, sure, I'd agree that the iPad is a computer (a poor one, but a computer nonethless). But as things are, let's be serious; the iPad is a very good tablet, but it's not a computer and shouldn't casually be equivocated with one.
What a crap article. Apple doesn't do low-spec, low-end hardware. Thus of course they are more expensive. Apple loads all their PCs with every feature under the sun and that's why their price points are high. They also don't sell traditional PCs desktops. All-in-ones, SFFs, Laptops, Ultrabooks, Workstations. Price any true competitor in these categories against an equivalent Apple computer and you will find the price difference isn't so big.
People just fail at comparison shopping and this article is a big fail at pointing out the reality of it.
People just fail at comparison shopping and this article is a big fail at pointing out the reality of it.
Really ? I've used it quite a bit with the iPhone for tethering. That's what happens when you keep forgetting your USB cable.
One thing I'll tell you right now is that if you can upgrade the ram in whichever Mac you're getting, then go with the lowest amount you possibly can. Going from 4GB to 16 on a 27 inch iMac will cost you $600 more. Apple is gouging the hell out of you there.
Instead, go with the default 4GB, and pick up 16GB of Corsair or Mushkin Mac ram for about $90 on Newegg or somewhere similar. You won't void your warranty, probably get better quality ram, and save yourself about $510.
Even with the quad Mini, you can save yourself $155 by upgrading yourself.
I wonder why I forgot my wireless Apple keyboards. Otherwise, having the Bluetooth box already filled in on my Macbook has influenced me to seek parity on other hardware even if I have extremely little use for it. Then again said option is rarely more than a $50 option on a notebook and spending some more time searching for it on a motherboard.
But many of those Windoz PCs are not comparable in quality or computing power. How many are made by little-known companies, not to mention the known companies who sell computers for under $400.
ASUS, Acer, Sony and others are selling notebook computers for above $1,100.
The average price doesn't mean much unless you compare size, CPU, RAM, et cetera.
I love this quote...it's wrong/deceiving in so many ways: "There are some customers which we chose not to serve. We don’t know how to make a $500 computer that’s not a piece of junk, and our DNA will not let us ship that. "
1)Um, the Wintel world has been making $500 computers for over a decade...and the Wintel world has 90% of the personal computer marketshare...FAR before the release of $500 Wintels. People wouldn't be buying "junk" for decades...but then again, Apple is the one who said if they made a $500 computer it would be junk. Not Dell. Not HP. Not others. Save it, Apple.
2)Apple comes close with a $599 mini. If Apple would choose to include their overpriced $69 mouse and $69 keyboard for FREE, many more people would buy Minis. Thus Apple selling a computer for a smidgen above the so called $500 computers. Wintel users are not going to "switch" to a $600 + $130 for a kb/mouse and BEFORE a monitor (or Apple's video converter plugs to work with non-Apple monitors). So the $599 Mini is really $739 + monitor. 5 years ago and still today you can grab a pretty slammin' Wintel WITH monitor for $739!
3)$500 computers are typically not junk. I have a $499 Dell desktop that is about 4 years old, 3GB RAM, quad core chip, 500GB drive, dvd writer...that came with a FREE keyboard and mouse. It did not computer with a monitor (and I didn't need one anyway)...I could have added a 19" monitor for about $75 3 years ago if I wanted. I do agree, however, that the $399 and less Wintels are usually junk...unless it's a crazy holiday sale or something.
Everyone in the world knows that Apple computers/hardware is *roughly* twice the price of a comparable Wintel. Apple has said (as others) that the real wonder of the Macs is the OS...so somehow Apple thinks that it's OS is worth 2x the price as Windows. And what do you know...90% of the world disagrees...and has disagreed for decades.
In the end, Apple always has high margins...and getting a high margin out of a $500 personal computer is not easy. Therefore, Apple doesn't want to be in that game (due to poor margins). Fine. But, Apple will never admit that Margin is the real reason at the end of the day.
1)Um, the Wintel world has been making $500 computers for over a decade...and the Wintel world has 90% of the personal computer marketshare...FAR before the release of $500 Wintels. People wouldn't be buying "junk" for decades...but then again, Apple is the one who said if they made a $500 computer it would be junk. Not Dell. Not HP. Not others. Save it, Apple.
2)Apple comes close with a $599 mini. If Apple would choose to include their overpriced $69 mouse and $69 keyboard for FREE, many more people would buy Minis. Thus Apple selling a computer for a smidgen above the so called $500 computers. Wintel users are not going to "switch" to a $600 + $130 for a kb/mouse and BEFORE a monitor (or Apple's video converter plugs to work with non-Apple monitors). So the $599 Mini is really $739 + monitor. 5 years ago and still today you can grab a pretty slammin' Wintel WITH monitor for $739!
3)$500 computers are typically not junk. I have a $499 Dell desktop that is about 4 years old, 3GB RAM, quad core chip, 500GB drive, dvd writer...that came with a FREE keyboard and mouse. It did not computer with a monitor (and I didn't need one anyway)...I could have added a 19" monitor for about $75 3 years ago if I wanted. I do agree, however, that the $399 and less Wintels are usually junk...unless it's a crazy holiday sale or something.
Everyone in the world knows that Apple computers/hardware is *roughly* twice the price of a comparable Wintel. Apple has said (as others) that the real wonder of the Macs is the OS...so somehow Apple thinks that it's OS is worth 2x the price as Windows. And what do you know...90% of the world disagrees...and has disagreed for decades.
In the end, Apple always has high margins...and getting a high margin out of a $500 personal computer is not easy. Therefore, Apple doesn't want to be in that game (due to poor margins). Fine. But, Apple will never admit that Margin is the real reason at the end of the day.
Last edited:
There is of course a point. Gartner recently produced estimates for US and world wide sales, and if we compare the Gartner numbers which unfortunately didn't include Apple's world wide estimates, with the actual sales numbers, then Apple sells 5.2% of all PCs worldwide. But if we add ASP of $1298 for Mac and $491 for PC, that means Apple has 12.44% of the total world wide PC revenue.
A figure that no one but shareholders care about.
SandynJosh has a point, this article is pointless dribble, comparing uncomparables to each other. Apple could sell 400$ PCs if they wanted. They don't want to. They could also sell beige boxes. Again, not something they are interested in.
To compare them to 400$ PC sellers and beige boxes is ludicrous and pure flamebait.
"Average PC". I think the headlines uses the correct terminology.
I have Macbook and a PC laptop with the "same" specs. One screen looks faded like you're viewing it through vellum paper. Guess which one. One laptop was also more expensive than the other. Guess which one.
I have Macbook and a PC laptop with the "same" specs. One screen looks faded like you're viewing it through vellum paper. Guess which one. One laptop was also more expensive than the other. Guess which one.
I don't remember feeling like I had bought a Ferrari when I ordered the MBP.
Last edited:
I know many of you are discussing the $500 point of the article. In that respect we all know that apple takes a large profit margin, I think that is why they don't build a $500 machine. Not enough gross margin for them. But, I really wanted to address the cannibalization issue referenced in the article that apple and Wall Street think there is.. I disagree.
I really think that Apple is missing the mark on this one... There are more people buying macs because of the ipad and iphone. They get a taste of what apple has to offer on these cheaper devices and decide they also want a mac to get the full experience. It is proven that the ipod touch, iphone, ipad have helped mac sales significantly. Those devices ease consumers into the apple realm when they might not have even considered getting a Mac. So i don't know what they are talking about.
I am a perfect example. Once I got an iphone i decided it was time to get a mac and I couldn't be happier. I think my case is more typical than apple's line of thinking "Well this consumer bought an ipad and is now not going to buy a mac because of it.
Stupid.
I really think that Apple is missing the mark on this one... There are more people buying macs because of the ipad and iphone. They get a taste of what apple has to offer on these cheaper devices and decide they also want a mac to get the full experience. It is proven that the ipod touch, iphone, ipad have helped mac sales significantly. Those devices ease consumers into the apple realm when they might not have even considered getting a Mac. So i don't know what they are talking about.
I am a perfect example. Once I got an iphone i decided it was time to get a mac and I couldn't be happier. I think my case is more typical than apple's line of thinking "Well this consumer bought an ipad and is now not going to buy a mac because of it.
Stupid.
Last edited:
Integrated speakers? Who settles with that? Same goes for integrated camera. Bluetooth on desktop is a tax for many who hates wireless peripheral devices. But if you want one, obviously you can get it on PC. Thunderbold, obviously, is totally useless for now. USB 3.0 is a better option. Don't pretend that OS/X is a match for Windows Ultimate. There are plenty of free alternatives on PC for iLife (Picasa etc.). IPS is old tech. PCs moved on to Super PLS. Firewire costs $2.
In honor of all these people who constantly make car analogies whenever a Mac vs. PC argument comes up, whenever I buy my first Macbook, I'm gonna make motorboat noises with my mouth. Maybe throw a few good skreeeee's in there for good measure.