Is apple going to be bothered by completion when it makes less than 10% of the companies profits?
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Neil Young to Debut 'PonoPlayer' High-Definition iPod Competitor This Week
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He's not after that market. There's money to be made in the market of people looking to play high quality audio in a portable player. Probably not billions of dollars, but so what? Would you not invest in something just because it might only make you millions rather than billions?
Though I'm not sold on the design, I think maybe I'm in the target demographic for a player like this. I've been looking for a high quality iPod-like device for some time - as a frequent traveler, I'm often in the air for hours at a time or in a hotel with very limited Internet access, so streaming is not really the answer for me.
I want a high quality player that supports all my music (up to DXD, 2xDSD, etc.), has a high-quality DAC that doesn't top out at 16/48, and has a powerful headphone amp built-in. Frankly I'd much rather Apple put out a premium iPhone with all that capability (and upgrade the iTunes Store to lossless, at least), but I'm willing to buy a third-party device if it meets those specs and is not outrageously expensive.
Given the A&K players are in the $1k+ range, something like this could be a bargain. And the involvement of Ayre pretty much guarantees it will sound great . . .
I want a high quality player that supports all my music (up to DXD, 2xDSD, etc.), has a high-quality DAC that doesn't top out at 16/48, and has a powerful headphone amp built-in. Frankly I'd much rather Apple put out a premium iPhone with all that capability (and upgrade the iTunes Store to lossless, at least), but I'm willing to buy a third-party device if it meets those specs and is not outrageously expensive.
Given the A&K players are in the $1k+ range, something like this could be a bargain. And the involvement of Ayre pretty much guarantees it will sound great . . .
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First impressions last
The main issue for any new audio format (and there have been many since the CD was introduced) is catalog and price. Anything in the Pono format is going to have to sound incredible in order to persuade enough people to re-buy their music collection *again*. They're not going to appeal to the millennial generation who are happy watching YouTube videos on phone screens and listening to MP3s.
The biggest problem I can see is that the industrial design of that player in no way says it's worth $400. The kind of people who are going to drop $400 on a new and unproven player and probably $25+ per album to fill it are going to want good fit & finish and high end industrial design. This does not look like high-end audio gear - think Bowers & Wilkins Speakers, McIntosh, Mark Levinson, NAD, Arcam, the list goes on. I would question the commitment of a company that didn't look at brands like that in a design study and set the bar for their product at that level. This looks like a Kickstarter project from a company you've never heard of that's designed and made by the lowest bid contract manufacturer in China. If that's their first impression, they're not going to be around long.
The main issue for any new audio format (and there have been many since the CD was introduced) is catalog and price. Anything in the Pono format is going to have to sound incredible in order to persuade enough people to re-buy their music collection *again*. They're not going to appeal to the millennial generation who are happy watching YouTube videos on phone screens and listening to MP3s.
The biggest problem I can see is that the industrial design of that player in no way says it's worth $400. The kind of people who are going to drop $400 on a new and unproven player and probably $25+ per album to fill it are going to want good fit & finish and high end industrial design. This does not look like high-end audio gear - think Bowers & Wilkins Speakers, McIntosh, Mark Levinson, NAD, Arcam, the list goes on. I would question the commitment of a company that didn't look at brands like that in a design study and set the bar for their product at that level. This looks like a Kickstarter project from a company you've never heard of that's designed and made by the lowest bid contract manufacturer in China. If that's their first impression, they're not going to be around long.
You can certainly emulate a vinyl sound in a digital copy (at least in theory, I don't know if anyone has done this already). I think it would be better as a dynamic filter rather than hardcoded just so that it can have a subtly altered sound between plays. But really all the quality difference that vinyl offers over a digital copy is based on subtle distortion and the fact that most digital music content is <320kbps. And yes, even at >320kbps the headphones still continue to be the bottleneck.
Disclaimer: I pulled the numbers almost completely out of my ass.
The point is it will support lossless formats. Certainly CD (44.1khz/16 bit) probably up to 96khz/24 bit and perhaps even 192khz/24 bit.
And the DAC will be much better than in an iPod.
There was a market for upgrading the DAC in some models of iPod classics. That upgrade was a few hundred dollars, and $400 is cheap by audiophile standards, so it might do Ok. Not as well as it would do if it weren't triangular though (WTF with that?) IMHO.
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No way it will include headphones, for exactly the reason you give.
Better than the iPod yes... but there are plenty of high end "audiophile" quality DAPs out on the market already. Cowan being the first that comes to mind... I believe that the Sony line of music players are supposed to have a very high end amp and at least a handful of lossless compression formats for a much more fair price. The day of a DAP, high end or not for $400 is 10 years past. I was a portable audio tech journalist from 1999-2002 and this would have impressed me back then... especially at this price. But in today's day and age this is not even what an audiophile is looking for because an audiophile wouldn't want anything to do with a DAP... you put in account with the ugly design. What's sure to be a clunky interface in the age of the touchscreen and I honestly can't think of an audience for this device unless you're a hardcore Neil Young fan and believe that even his turds are made of gold...
Big Neil Young fan but as others have pointed out, releasing an audiophile version of an iPod at this point in time is destined for failure.
This will die faster than the Zune...
This will die faster than the Zune...
I'll just stick to ipod photo 30GB
A little old but works great and will never go out of style =]
A little old but works great and will never go out of style =]
I think a lot of people are missing the point. I intend to buy one simply to listen to music at home. It's more convenient than buying the new HQ discs and much better quality than iTunes downloads. Listen using a decent pair of headphones or plug it into a decent set of speakers and I bet it will sound amazing.
This is not pitched at the iPod generation. It's pitched at the 35+ age group who probably still buy CDs and have a decent HiFi system. People who have so far not joined the iTunes bandwagon simply because they value quality over convenience. There's simply nothing like this on the market which is why I hope it will be a success.
This is not pitched at the iPod generation. It's pitched at the 35+ age group who probably still buy CDs and have a decent HiFi system. People who have so far not joined the iTunes bandwagon simply because they value quality over convenience. There's simply nothing like this on the market which is why I hope it will be a success.
I hope this thread gets archived. I'm not sure if this will be a flop or not, but there have been plenty of products that were soundly predicted to fail that became huge successes.
If this had an Apple logo on it, I guarantee you there would be a completely different response.
What I hope it does is force Apple to provide music in lossless formats from iTunes. Maybe 20 somethings don't care about audio quality, but I still buy CDs and rip them because I have a system that can reproduce high quality music.
And higher than CD quality music is possible if someone would make it available to those of us who care.
One last thing, I get so sick of everyone assuming that if THEY don't want something no one will. I can't believe in 2014 people still haven't figured out that their taste isn't God's truth.
If this had an Apple logo on it, I guarantee you there would be a completely different response.
What I hope it does is force Apple to provide music in lossless formats from iTunes. Maybe 20 somethings don't care about audio quality, but I still buy CDs and rip them because I have a system that can reproduce high quality music.
And higher than CD quality music is possible if someone would make it available to those of us who care.
One last thing, I get so sick of everyone assuming that if THEY don't want something no one will. I can't believe in 2014 people still haven't figured out that their taste isn't God's truth.
It's using the ESS 9018 DAC chip, with Ayre's custom minimum phase filter (no pre-ringing) and a zero feedback amplifier design with a near zero output impedance.
This is seriously good audio hardware, and extremely good value at $400.
Competing players cost twice what this does, and their audio hardware is not as good.
Nothing else about the hardware is impressive though. They should have hired some designers instead of making a plastic toblerone.
He contacted Apple before deciding to start his own service. They weren't interested.
You don't need a balanced output for headphones, especially not on a portable player. The cord isn't even 5ft long.
It is too late though. Everyone listens to music on their phones and is happy that they don't need to carry around multiple devices.
Apparently you haven't heard the most recent releases of these albums - I have them on SACD - they sound amazing and really stand out compared to the terrible mastering quality that modern albums have.
"Yes" to higher quality music files. But "no" to this ugly thing. Hopefully Apple will provide an update path someday to the audio quality of its music, like they did with the last step up in quality. Storage of the larger files is not really an issue anymore, even if file size quadrupled. Seems that was one of the original drivers of the current file size - a need to fit more than 100 songs on a Nano.
I thought maybe MR was showing us their sense of humor with this article, but it is, in fact, real. Wow.
First off, let me add to the horde that this product won't sell millions. The industrial design is rather underwhelming, and there's a small market for it.
That said, most of you seem to misunderstand the purpose of this product.
This device is not for running, sitting on the train, bus, or plane. It is not for having music on while you are doing other things, or any of the dozens of way's our society typically consumes music nowadays. It should not come with its own headphones.
It is for listening to the music as a primary activity... and for easily bringing it to someplace else in your house or to your friend's place, and needs to be easily loadable with music. It is for this guy, and people like him:
I still suspect a iPod with a dedicated USB/DAC/headphone amp (for example, a Fostex HP-P1, or a Schiit amp) would be a better solution for most, but it's not especially convenient to have multiple components for a "portable-ish" solution.
Although this product may not ring a bell in the intended market, it is definitely NOT for the unwashed masses.
That said, most of you seem to misunderstand the purpose of this product.
This device is not for running, sitting on the train, bus, or plane. It is not for having music on while you are doing other things, or any of the dozens of way's our society typically consumes music nowadays. It should not come with its own headphones.
It is for listening to the music as a primary activity... and for easily bringing it to someplace else in your house or to your friend's place, and needs to be easily loadable with music. It is for this guy, and people like him:
I still suspect a iPod with a dedicated USB/DAC/headphone amp (for example, a Fostex HP-P1, or a Schiit amp) would be a better solution for most, but it's not especially convenient to have multiple components for a "portable-ish" solution.
Although this product may not ring a bell in the intended market, it is definitely NOT for the unwashed masses.
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is doomed.