Netflix Begins Crackdown on Password Sharing in US and UK

cthompson94 said:
Definition of a crime: "an action or omission that constitutes an offense that may be prosecuted by the state and is punishable by law."
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“may be” and “-able”. Doesn’t mean it is prosecuted or punished, it means it can be.

Unauthorized use of services can be prosecuted or punished.

Consequences of Stealing Cable Television

It might be a tempting idea to hook up to your neighbor’s cable service from your own apartment, saving yourself the cost of a monthly television bill, but if you succumb and actually do it, it’s stealing. Even if you've just moved into a new home to discover that the last resident never turned...
legalbeagle.com legalbeagle.com

You may not want it to be a crime, you may not think you should be a criminal, but even by your own definition, that’s the facts. And for the record, I didn’t start by calling anyone a criminal or a thief, but if someone says something that is flat out wrong I don’t have a problem with correcting it.

cthompson94 said:
so if you would please stop calling password sharing a crime or sorry "small crime" and also one again a poor example provided from you... in your example all you basically have to do is change "if you need the lawnmower" to something like If you want my password
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If you take something not offered to you, it is stealing. It’s my lawnmower, so I can offer it to you. It’s my password, so I can offer that to you. It’s not my content, so I can’t offer that to you. So, if my password gets used to access content I don’t have the right to offer you, that’s a problem. If I give you the keys to my workplace and you take something of value, that’s a problem.

KaiFiMacFan said:
Calling it a crime does seem a bit melodramatic.
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Which is why people who want to share their Netflix passwords want to keep repeating the word “crime”. “I mean god, it’s not like we’re murdering people…”.

It’s a violation of the terms of service, it’s unauthorized access to services, it’s Netflix’s right to control their service and take action against violations.

These kinds of conversations all follow the same pattern: some thing is undeniably true (you can’t legally access a service you’re not given access to), people want to say they don’t want to pay more but instead say something inane (I didn’t know it was illegal to share my stuff with my family), someone else points out the reason why that thinking is wrong and suddenly it’s no longer about facts it’s about defending corporations or making big deals over little things.

You might see it as melodramatic, but it’s also correct, and eye rolling isn’t much of a defense.
 
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Stromos said:
Show me a cell phone plan where a single person has to buy four lines to have Ultrawideband. That’s Netflix logic.

Also my family has a four line family plan and we live in three houses. Could you imagine the carrier saying oh no you each need to buy a single line.

4 Streams/4 Lines.
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Again, Netflix could take away the right to stream to multiple devices in your household— I’m not sure how that’s better though. People are so upset they can’t get one thing, they’re made they have something else…. It’s weird.

If it’s a family plan, you’re paying for multiple people. You can pay $7.99 to add someone else to your Netflix account— that’s the Netflix divorced family plan.
 
nrose101 said:
With what money? As a parent, she goes to college and I pay all. Just like any decent parent should. Gas, Food, movies at theaters, clothes...
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Gee, when my kids went to college they worked part time and summer jobs for their spending money. Just like any decent parent would do to help their child learn to be an adult with increasing levels of self sufficiency.
 
Allrightythen said:
It is rather simple, with the right equipment.

1. Configure a VPN Server on the paying side (home);
2. Configure a VPN Client on the remote site (e.g., openVPN on chromecast) to connect to the home VPN server;
3. Enjoy.
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4. Wait until your 'family' member does something illegal on your IP address.
5. The police turn up at your door to arrest you.
6. Netflix finding out, suing you as well.
 
Analog Kid said:
I’d imagine that if the news has that number, Netflix does too and they’ve still chosen to go ahead. This isn’t some wild experiment they’re taking to see what happens. Doesn’t mean they can’t be wrong, but the fact that they lost 1M subs in Spain and are still going forward tells me they’re pretty convinced this is important.
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They want more people to be subscribing and estimate 100M people are watching on borrowed passwords most likely. Netflix isn’t exactly expensive, I think I pay about £7 a month. So why do those 100M people/households not also pay this? Maybe they like some content but don’t feel it’s worth the small fee overall?

I’m sure Netflix do think this is worth pursuing, but I think the continued drop in subscriptions will ultimately hurt them and think they are just hoping the gamble pays off at this point.
 
svenmany said:
I'm really not sure how this is going to work in my case or if it's even needed. I just called them to get some help adding my son as an extra member to my account. When you add an extra member, you pay for it, but the extra member gets their own login.

My son lives 3 days a week at home and 4 days a week in an apartment a few miles away. He would be logging in from two different smart TVs at two separate locations. I thought for sure that would be flagged by them and somehow disabled. But the representative said that I don't even have to add an extra member. He said my family login should be useable from the two locations. I have a feeling the representative was wrong.
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Again no one explained how that will work exactly, but I read that as long as he’s logging in with his login account at your home every 30 days or less, then he can share your account on family login.
 
The-Real-Deal82 said:
They want more people to be subscribing and estimate 100M people are watching on borrowed passwords most likely. Netflix isn’t exactly expensive, I think I pay about £7 a month. So why do those 100M people/households not also pay this? Maybe they like some content but don’t feel it’s worth the small fee overall?

I’m sure Netflix do think this is worth pursuing, but I think the continued drop in subscriptions will ultimately hurt them and think they are just hoping the gamble pays off at this point.
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I’m sure they studied carefully out of these 100M people, how many will get their own account and out of the account holders who let the borrowing happen how many will cancel. If it’s a wash, they win.
 
UnusedLoginID said:
I’m sure they studied carefully out of these 100M people, how many will get their own account and out of the account holders who let the borrowing happen how many will cancel. If it’s a wash, they win.
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I am sure they have. If we see reports subscriptions have increased significantly, we'll have confirmation it was a successful strategy.
 
I really hope we all, collectively, come to a point where we understand that we have the ability to take down these companies overnight. Google is no exception as well.

Imagine if we all just unplugged for 30 days. It would collapse these greedy, manipulative companies beyond repair.

I hope this generation pulls a 60s style revolution on the all of this.

They should be paying US to have/use a phone for starters…

I have been a Netflix subscriber for longer than I can remember. However, if I get something because my family happens to stream something, beyond their premium subscription allows limit wise, I’m out.

Lastly, I’m sure they have done their research on this and they feel comfortable with possibly pissing off users.

Would like to remind them… a recession is coming… tread carefully.
 
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Netflix is the service provider. The provider makes the rules. If you don't agree, don't do business with the provider. It's as simple as it gets.
 
frqunzfltr said:
Netflix is the service provider. The provider makes the rules. If you don't agree, don't do business with the provider. It's as simple as it gets.
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That depends on how reasonable those rules are.
If tomorrow someone from Ford says, "we'll sell you this Mustang, but you may not drive it more than five miles away from your home", I will buy it and I will sure as hell drive it wherever I please, their rule be damned.
You require me to buy four streams? OK, fine with me. But then don't complain if I choose to actually use all of them.

I think Netflix's strategy went somewhat like this. "How many people watch simultaneously, on average, in a household? Maybe two. OK then, we'll force them to buy four streams if they want high quality. Selling four streams while only providing two will bring us huge profits".
Fine. But those people who bought four streams are now lending one to their grandmother, and one to their sibling. And Netflix is getting angry because its strategy of screwing its customers hasn't worked as planned. Well, tough luck. I won't shed a tear for them.
 
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I don't see a problem.
If one wants to share his/her account out of household, buy another subscription.
At least, for the price of a basic subscription, the son/daughter/friend can get 4K if Daddy has the premium plan.
You don't wanna pay, don't.
But are you telling me that you have been handing money to Netflix for a subscription you don't use and don't even like?
 
Vlad Soare said:
As long as I pay for two or four streams, I expect to be able to use those two or four streams. Period. Everything else is just claptrap. Using them at a location that's different from my official home cannot be qualified as theft.
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Sure as long as your usage conforms to the new TOS. Like others here I have a smart tv in a second location and well how that works out. Just to be clear you pay for x streams from your primary location.
Maven1975 said:
I really hope we all, collectively, come to a point where we understand that we have the ability to take down these companies overnight. Google is no exception as well.

Imagine if we all just unplugged for 30 days. It would collapse these greedy, manipulative companies beyond repair.

I hope this generation pulls a 60s style revolution on the all of this.

They should be paying US to have/use a phone for starters…

I have been a Netflix subscriber for longer than I can remember. However, if I get something because my family happens to stream something, beyond their premium subscription allows limit wise, I’m out.

Lastly, I’m sure they have done their research on this and they feel comfortable with possibly pissing off users.

Would like to remind them… a recession is coming… tread carefully.
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If you don’t like Netflix cancel your service. Don’t ask me to join in some 60s style, against the man protest. There are other fish to fry at least for me.
 
genovelle said:
What is ironic is that sharing was always against their policies and sharing amounted to theft of their services. I wondered how they remained profitable.
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A lot of people subscribe to Netflix just so they can give their account out to family and friends

Netflix famously tweeted that password sharing is love 5 years ago

“Theft of their services” is a bit of an exaggeration
 
genovelle said:
The funny part is one house hold has always been the rule, but wasn’t enforced.
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The trouble is a single household splitting time between two locations (snowbirds, or families with an RV or weekend cabin or beach condo or similar) is difficult to differentiate from folks sharing the same account/password with a friend.
 
From the Netflix Help Center.

Plans and Pricing

Discover the different streaming plans Netflix offers and how much Netflix costs.
help.netflix.com help.netflix.com
Seems clear.
Premium
  • Premium Plan
  • Unlimited ad-free movies, TV shows, and mobile games
  • Watch on 4 supported devices at a time
  • Watch in Ultra HD
  • Download on 6 supported devices at a time
  • Option to add up to 2 extra members who don't live with you

  • Extra Members​

    A Netflix account is meant to be shared by people who live together in one household. People who are not in your household will need to use their own account to watch Netflix. Learn more about sharing Netflix.
    Account owners can buy an extra member slot and invite people outside their household to use Netflix. See Plans and Pricing for extra member prices.

    Extra member benefits and differences​

    Benefits​

    Extra members can enjoy many of the same benefits as other Netflix members:
 
Analog Kid said:
The “that you weren’t going to pay for either way” is an interesting caveat... If it has no value, why take it? If it has value, then saying you weren’t going to pay for it anyway just means you were hell bent on, well, stealing it.

Do you have a bias towards atoms over bits? Is it stealing if you nick a book before the excess stock is destroyed or sent back to the publisher? If any stock is returned or destroyed, does anyone need to pay? Which ones are ”not making anyone worse off” and which are depriving someone of income?

People have such a bias toward pricing stuff based no the physical matter that comprises it. You don’t need a physical object to have value. Netflix’s service costs a certain amount to produce content and operate and that cost is divided among paying customers (and only paying customers). Saying it doesn’t matter how many people siphon off the stream means that the paying customers pay more. When you go to a store and buy something, part of what you’re paying for is to cover lossage from items that aren’t paid for by customers. The fewer paying customers, the more that product costs everyone else— leaving them actually worse off.
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Many logical fallacies here.

E.g. I will never give Disney money. But, I do like the original star wars movies. So, whether I watch them or not, Disney will be getting no money from me. If I'm not giving them money either way, they're no worse off with me watching it via piracy or not at all.

Bits, especially bits not streamed from the seller (e.g. torrents), have no marginal cost. Atoms have marginal cost. No bias is involved-- bits can be infinitely duplicated at no cost, atoms are finite. Stealing atoms deprives someone else of them. Duplicating bits does not. The vendor is not better off, as they would be if purchased, but nobody is worse off.

Let's put it in another context:
I want a GT3. I will not be buying a GT3, as it's not in my budget, regardless of how I value it. If I stole a GT3, Porsche (or the owner) would be out, say, $150,000. If I could 3D print a GT3, nobody is out that $150,000, nor did Porsche lose a sale they otherwise would have had.

Per all economic theory, in an efficient market goods should be priced at marginal cost. The marginal cost to stream an episode of show X is a couple cents. The fact that this stuff is as expensive as it is actually proves exactly what we intuitively know-- companies like Disney are acting non competitively by buying up IPs, limiting competition.

All that said, I'm sticking with my original plan. 1 month of netflix/year is enough to consume what I care about of theirs, so I'll subscribe for one month a year, then cancel. I basically use their service for drive to survive and stranger things... and don't really care about anything else they make. One streaming service at a time is plenty if you have them in a rotation, and quite cost effective. Long gone is the era where Netflix is THE streaming service, so you need to keep your plan year round.

... except for Disney, who I'll never give money, because I'm tired of them buying IPs I like and then utterly ruining them.
 
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