Netflix May Soon Crack Down on Password Sharing

[hot-gril]

In the UK, unmarried couples living together count as a household. They are not unrelated. Three independent people sharing a house to save on rent do not count as a household. If you have a nanny or an au-pair living in your home, you ask a lawyer

Anyway, Netflix isn't going to be suing every suspect user on their platform. They're just going to implement what they can to reduce unauthorized sharing. Almost no users really care what's legal, they'll just do whatever is easy.

 

[smoking monkey]

I don't have Netflix but was thinking about getting it for a few months to watch a few things. So you have to chose which device you want to stream to if you choose the basic plan? And it's only 1 device?
Or is it only one steam at a time on any device you have in your household?

 

[hot-gril]

Household

Definition of Household in the Legal Dictionary by The Free Dictionary

legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com

Yes, that. My wife and I are still the same household whether we're on vacation, or I'm at my office, or she's at her mother's house. It's not about the instantaneous location of each person being under the same roof.

 

[seek3r]

The easiest way for Netflix to fix this is just to charge the account holder more when people regularly access it outside of their household.

They basically already do, their pricing is tiered based on simultaneous streams

In the UK, unmarried couples living together count as a household. They are not unrelated. Three independent people sharing a house to save on rent do not count as a household. If you have a nanny or an au-pair living in your home, you ask a lawyer

And that’s awesome for the UK, but what if you’re poly? Outside the UK what if you’re gay in a country that lacks rights for LGBTQ+ folks to marry?

Hell, what if you have a best mate or mates you share a home with? I have a friend from college who went half and half on a house with his oldest friend, they’ve lived together now for 20 years. They’re not together, they just co-own the house and share it

What if you’re a caretaker for a friend?

There’s lots more examples like those

The idea that a household is made up of just a nuclear family under one roof is so ‘50s it’s painful

 

[MacDaddyPanda]

Lot of people are in long distance relationships too. WTF. I share with my GF in CAD.

 

[Shirasaki]

Yeah... I don’t see how that warning message is going to stop anyone. Unless you share your password with random strangers, whoever is trying to watch is obviously going to ask the account holder for the verification code.

Comparing public IPs wouldn’t work either. Someone could be watching on their phone using data, or be at somebody else’s house.

I don’t think they can really enforce this in any way that would actually work...

Actually these are some ways Netflix can enforce it:
1. Allow the code to only be shared within a local IP address.
2. Use camera to determine who is who. Netflix dont need to let those photo uploaded to their server.
3. Use processor local machine learning engine to analyse user code entering behaviour and detect “fraudulent” activities.
4. Only display the code within Netflix app, not through text or notification. Notification tells the user to check the code within the app.

 

[ian87w]

No, I don't agree at all. You agree to their terms when you start service: screens in a household. If members of that household go on a trip, they are covered. My sister, who is not part of my household, is not covered. The service I pay for doesn't include her.

If you don't want to include your sister, that's your choice. I consider my sister as part of my household, so she gets that 1 screen. In the end, it is not a big deal since the number of screens are limited and paid for, and the devices are authenticated.

 

[now i see it]

and they can watch as millions of subscribers who currently pay $13.99 for two accounts downgrade to a single account for $8.99 and the poor people who were piggy backing as freeloaders don't subscribe at all.

Kicking off non household users will cost Netflix millions of dollars

 

[seek3r]

Anyway, Netflix isn't going to be suing every suspect user on their platform. They're just going to implement what they can to reduce unauthorized sharing. Almost no users really care what's legal, they'll just do whatever is easy.

My reply that gnasher729 was in turn replying to wasnt really about Netflix directly, it was about the person who tried to super narrowly define a household within this thread

 

[Will.O.Bie]

Whether they live in your house or not, what difference does it make if you’re within the device limit?

Exactly! The price point I'm paying allows for up to four devices logged on to use Netflix. There shouldn't be a restriction where these devices are being used as long as we stay within the device limit and I'm keeping my account in good standing. The price itself is valuable and fair to us since we all use it. I should be able to share it to whomever I want without having to start another subscription. If this happens then we're out.

 

[ian87w]

Actually these are some ways Netflix can enforce it:
1. Allow the code to only be shared within a local IP address.
2. Use camera to determine who is who. Netflix dont need to let those photo uploaded to their server.
3. Use processor local machine learning engine to analyse user code entering behaviour and detect “fraudulent” activities.
4. Only display the code within Netflix app, not through text or notification. Notification tells the user to check the code within the app.

1. The IP cannot be enforced. One can be on mobile, different IP, but still the same household.
2. Most smartTVs don't have cameras.
3. Seems like a hassle for Netflix to implement, and can annoy legitimate users
4. This is no different than a text.

One way for Netflix to avoid this sharing stuff is to change their model. Eg. like Microsoft 365 family, where each user must have an account.

 

[hot-gril]

Actually these are some ways Netflix can enforce it:
1. Allow the code to only be shared within a local IP address.
2. Use camera to determine who is who. Netflix dont need to let those photo uploaded to their server.
3. Use processor local machine learning engine to analyse user code entering behaviour and detect “fraudulent” activities.
4. Only display the code within Netflix app, not through text or notification. Notification tells the user to check the code within the app.

1. Won't work without blocking many legitimate users. You can change IPs even just staying in one physical house.
2. Netflix doesn't know when and where the photo was taken.
3. Same as #1, probably too many legit people locked out.
4. Wouldn't this be the same as the SMS code? They just send it.

This is a common and difficult problem that many companies have tried to solve for other reasons, and they haven't succeeded. It's hard to tie an account to a human user, even harder to tie it to a household. Netflix's current approach is about having no legit users locked out even if it means many slide past it, and they probably expect to still catch a large number.

 

[macjoshua]

If you don't want to include your sister, that's your choice. I consider my sister as part of my household, so she gets that 1 screen. In the end, it is not a big deal since the number of screens are limited and paid for, and the devices are authenticated.

It's not my choice. It's the agreement I signed up for. I don't get to redefine household.

 

[ian87w]

It's not my choice. It's the agreement I signed up for. I don't get to redefine household.

Then please provide a de-facto definition of a household.
My sister and my parents are part of my household. My parents have another house as vacation house. That gets a screen. My sister works outside the city. She gets a screen. Pretty easy and logical to me. Why should they be required to have their own subscriptions?

 

[macjoshua]

Then define a household.

Household

Definition of Household in the Legal Dictionary by The Free Dictionary

legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com

 

[Paradoxally]

Lot of people are in long distance relationships too. WTF. I share with my GF in CAD.

Right, but the only difference in the future is that she or you have to give each other a code to watch when prompted.

This is to crack down on accounts that have been "shared" with strangers on the Internet, in almost all cases without the consent of the owner, e.g., leaked accounts.

Many streaming websites have done this for years now, when they detect different IPs they ask the owner to verify a link sent to their email.

 

[Unity451]

What?! Is this in reference to anything?

Here's one article about it, but there are many more.

'The View': 'Cuties' sexualizes young girls, but boycotting Netflix not necessary

The panel of ABC News’ “The View” found a rare topic they could all agree on Thursday when they addressed Netflix’s controversial “Cuties,” as they feel the film sexualizes young girls but critics don’t need to cancel the streaming service as a result.

www.foxnews.com

 

[seek3r]

Actually these are some ways Netflix can enforce it:
1. Allow the code to only be shared within a local IP address.

IPs drift on consumer connections, people can have multiple IPs attached to them (more than one IP from their ISP, cell phones [and cell networks can sometimes be doublw NATted, which makes that even more complicated] work, traveling, second home, etc)

and that’s not even getting into the damage IPv6 would eventually cause to that method

2. Use camera to determine who is who. Netflix dont need to let those photo uploaded to their server.

I hope that’s a sarcastic suggestion, because if netflix asks to take your picture to sign in their subscriber base is going to plummet. Also how does that work with, say, a TV?

3. Use processor local machine learning engine to analyse user code entering behaviour and detect “fraudulent” activities.

This is kind of a word salad but I’m going to assume you mean something like “analyze login patterns to detect deviations that could be shared passwords.”

they probably have enough data to build some decent models for that, but it’s tough because of how variable people’s uses are. And the unknowns of both the proximate and longterm effects of COV19 probably negate a lot of whatever models they could build now. Also probably a recipe to annoy users

4. Only display the code within Netflix app, not through text or notification. Notification tells the user to check the code within the app.

that creates a pretty problematic cyclical dependency on logins... also if you’re traveling or something you probably cant, say, access your already logged in appleTV to authorize

 

[volcanic]

He's talking about me, and I haven't.

Haha no he was talking about me. I did look up legal definition of “household” and it’s under one roof. I was conflating it with “family.” Legal definitions aside, I still feel 4 streams should be 4 streams and not have to be under one roof.

 

[ian87w]

Household

Definition of Household in the Legal Dictionary by The Free Dictionary

legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com

Then by that logic, "under the same roof," if you are traveling outside your "household," you should subscribe to a new account.

 

[hot-gril]

Haha no he was talking about me. I did look up legal definition of “household” and it’s under one roof. I was conflating it with “family.” Legal definitions aside, I still feel 4 streams should be 4 streams and not have to be under one roof.

It might make Netflix's job easier if they did make it about the number of streams.

 

[macjoshua]

Then by that logic, "under the same roof," if you are traveling outside your "household," you should subscribe to a new account.

Good grief. It's about living or having residence under one roof. When I travel with my wife, we're still part of the same household. That doesn't seem like difficult logic to grasp.

 

[ian87w]

Right, but the only difference in the future is that she or you have to give each other a code to watch when prompted.

This is to crack down on accounts that have been "shared" with strangers on the Internet, in almost all cases without the consent of the owner, e.g., leaked accounts.

Many streaming websites have done this for years now, when they detect different IPs they ask the owner to verify a link sent to their email.

Alright, that makes more sense. Maybe Netflix should be upfront about the purpose, to curb down leaked accounts. If that's the case, then there's nothing to be argued about. It should be about cutting non-authenticated devices.

 

[umbilical]

****! streaming! Physical Discs all the way!!!!!

 

[ian87w]

Good grief. It's about living under one roof. When I travel with my wife, we're still part of the same household. That doesn't seem like difficult logic to grasp.

What if your wife travels alone? Per your own dictionary definition, she's not under the same roof anymore.