Netflix No Longer Offering In-App Subscription Options on iOS Devices

[mariusignorello]

I would also venture to say most subscribers are in that 15% commission category rather than the 30% so it’s not quite as bad as the drama queens are making it out to be.

And yes, I have been subjected to this policy before too. Not just an armchair critic.

 

[Michael Goff]

the difference is that you don't have to use the in-app purchase route. you could have always asked the user to go to the web to sign up. Apple can't ditch Qualcomm because Intel can't make enough chips. there's no alternative.

i'm not defending Apple's pricing. 30% is ridiculous.

Also, it doesn’t matter if they use Qualcomm or not. Qualcomm still charges patent fees.

 

[ctyrider]

Great news. The 30% cut on IAP is absurd. No more milking free money for doing nothing Apple.

Why do YOU give a crap about IAP commission? You are not paying it. The nominal cost of Netflix subscription is the same to you, whether you pay via iTunes or directly to Netflix.

In fact, frequent 15%-20% discounts on iTunes gift cards offered an eaay way for consumers like you to save on Netflix subscriptions.

The fact that people care about commissions that one multi-billion company (Netflix) pays to another multi-billion company (Apple) is truly amazing.

 

[FriendlyMackle]

All of this Apple hate is weird. As a consumer, I LOVED the fact that I could switch to iTunes billing as then - as mentioned - I could take advantage of periodic 20% discount on iTunes credit. So - this was a good deal for me personally, and I'll keep doing it as long as I can.

I could care less about what kind of agreement Apple and Netflix have between them. Don't care. Netflix does not have a sustainable business model with or without Apple's cut.

What are you talking about "Netflix does not have a sustainable business model" — are we talking about the same Netflix that has tens of millions of customers worldwide and is the leading streaming provider in the USA, UK, and Europe? Netflix doesn't need Apple for service discovery. If someone doesn't know by now what Netflix is and what it does...or how to get to a web page to subscribe, then they likely won't be a customer anyway.

The 30% cut Apple takes from everyone in the App store is ridiculous. This would be the equivalent of, say on a Microsoft tablet, every application placed on the computer (sourced from the Microsoft store) would need to pay Microsoft a % commission for any purchase made using their application.

It's MY computer. My iPhone. My iPad! Why does Apple get to earn a commission off of software which I WANT on MY purchased computer/appliance/phone?

This has bothered me for a long time. No, I'm not leaving iOS devices due to this as Android has no appeal to me, and Microsoft even less so.

It's one thing if you're talking about the many, many software creators who exist only in the App store and whose applications have no life outside of the iOS garden. I still disagree with the idea that Apple should make a commission on services which I purchase ON MY OWN DEVICE.

Going Overboard and Off-Subject! (read if you dare)
Just because most idiot judges with no technical awareness have deemed this legal does not make it either sensible or right. Our current judges, by the way, are the same people who deemed over-air-streaming of broadcast airwaves to be for all purposes 'cable' but then in the same determination saying...that they are NOT entitled to the same kind of pricing guarantees from networks as 'actual' cable. So ending an entire budding industry which would have competed with Ye Olde Cable Company Conglomerate-Strangleholders.

We have a huge problem in this country (USA) with digital rights and the lack thereof which many of us are unaware in practice how these 'rights' which are licenses actually work.

For instance, public libraries, which have always been able to purchase books (with no 'expiration date' other than wear) from publishers. The major publishing houses have now decided (in what is assuredly not conspiratorial behavior...even though they are all doing this) that books 'sold' to public libraries will have a built-in expiration date of 2 years (it may be less than that in some cases, ie, bestsellers). And of course, each ebook can only be used by one person at a time, necessitating the purchase of multiple copies which will all expire. I don't know what the actual expected lifetime for a public library book is, but I am inclined to think it is longer than 2 years for many, many books. Only the most popular items will wear more quickly. Did I mention that publishers already charge extremely high prices to libraries for paper books? Nothing resembling prices consumers pay for them (5-10x+ higher).

Then we have the creeping of State surveillance over all digital exchanges. Once upon a time, a warrant was needed for a wiretap. Now, whenever you are within 100 miles of a border or coast (or perhaps even just an international airport), which by the way covers 80% of the population...government agents/border patrol/police/whomever has a card has the right to inspect ALL of your devices. If you disagree with that, you should expect to spend time in a jail-like circumstance while 'not under arrest' but still in a cell and a de facto prisoner. You all read the news, I'm sure you've heard enough already about 'standard' U.S. citizens running afoul of these acts of law. This is only going to get worse.

TLDNF:
Back to this thread's subject: I disagree with Apple's 'right' to monetary compensation for purchases which I make on my own property (computer/phone/tablet).

 

[sidewinder3000]

Because Apple doesn't deserve the 30% of the $7.99 or higher monthly from Netflix or any other company.

Get wise. Apple doesn’t take 30% for ongoing subscriptions. It charges 15% after subscribers have been onboard for a year.

And of course they deserve a percentage of any customer revenue that they bring to Netflix, or any other company. That’s called a finder’s fee and it’s standard practice.

If a company feels like they are big enough or good enough at acquiring customers that they no longer need finders, they can of course end those agreements and go it alone.

But what Netflix is doing now is freeloading. Using the resources of AppStore to seemlessly deliver their app and it’s updates to their customers without paying a dime. That ain’t cool.

 

[hagar]

Get wise. Apple doesn’t take 30% for ongoing subscriptions. It charges 15% after subscribers have been onboard for a year.

And of course they deserve a percentage of any customer revenue that they bring to Netflix, or any other company. That’s called a finder’s fee and it’s standard practice.

If a company feels like they are big enough or good enough at acquiring customers that they no longer need finders, they can of course end those agreements and go it alone.

But what Netflix is doing now is freeloading. Using the resources of AppStore to seemlessly deliver their app and it’s updates to their customers without paying a dime. That ain’t cool.

Imagine they pull their app entirely from the App Store. It would probably hurt Apple more than it does Netflix at this point.

 

[sidewinder3000]

.

 

[FriendlyMackle]

disagreed. DIRECTVNOW's app has been buggy for the past several months (i'm not even talking about the "beta" DVR they have), but it looks like they moved all of their engineers to work on a dedicated DIRECTVNOW streaming device. and the person that designed Hulu's ATV app should be fired. let content providers provide the content and let apple do the human interfacing.

Hulu's app is HIDEOUS, SLOW, unintuitive, does not allow skipping of intro/credits nor direct continuation of episodes (without watching to the bitter end credits). It also ONLY seems to show me (in the "TV to Watch" or whatever it's called) shows in which I have NO interest and have NEVER watched and are NOT in my 'saved'/liked shows.

I keep thinking it will improve...but it doesn't. I hate Disney, I hate NBC, I despise CBS with their stupid and entirely unappealing 'CBS All Access' -- as though there is anything other than 1 show of interest on their crappy service; and don't get me started on Fox (evil, evil, evil and idiotic!)! And they have all made Hulu the crap-fest that it is. At this point, most of what airs on network tv isn't even available on Hulu. Just a couple of channels, and a lot of garbage. I am only keeping the service for old shows which I'm watching, like 'Workaholics' and 'It's Always Sunny in Phila,' and such. Most of the Hulu-Original series are also stupid and boring. The only series which I liked was "Hard Sun" and that was actually a BBC series. At some point the BBC will offer a streaming paid service and I'll probably subscribe to that for some more choices.

 

[sidewinder3000]

Imagine they pull their app entirely from the App Store. It would probably hurt Apple more than it does Netflix at this point.

That’s fantasy. Apple users are the most educated, most affluent, and most profitable consumers on the planet. If people couldn’t watch on iPhones, iPads, Macs or Apple TV, Netflix’s business would crumble.

 

[FriendlyMackle]

Why do YOU give a crap about IAP commission? You are not paying it. The nominal cost of Netflix subscription is the same to you, whether you pay via iTunes or directly to Netflix.

In fact, frequent 15%-20% discounts on iTunes gift cards offered an eaay way for consumers like you to save on Netflix subscriptions.

The fact that people care about commissions that one multi-billion company (Netflix) pays to another multi-billion company (Apple) is truly amazing.

Actually, ultimately, subscribers DO PAY for Apple's commissions. Those commissions will drive the Netflix service prices higher as they eat into profits. I'm not saying that would be the only reason for Netflix to raise their prices—but it will be a factor when it does come.

 

[sidewinder3000]

What are you talking about "Netflix does not have a sustainable business model" — are we talking about the same Netflix that has tens of millions of customers worldwide and is the leading streaming provider in the USA, UK, and Europe?

Uh, yeah, the other guy is right. Now matter how many words you write, you can’t change reality and facts.

Netflix is dumping jillion’s of dollars into producing zillions of shows and have yet to go public with their viewship or profit/loss statements. They are playing a crazy, risky, marketshare game and there’s a decent chance it’ll go the way of MoviePass.

 

[FriendlyMackle]

Uh, yeah, the other guy is right. Now matter how many words you write, you can’t change reality and facts.

Netflix is dumping jillion’s of dollars into producing zillions of shows and have yet to go public with their viewship or profit/loss statements. They are playing a crazy, risky, marketshare game and there’s a decent chance it’ll go the way of MoviePass.

And Disney will be spending ten times that amount. Is Disney crazy as well? Apple, and the other streaming services will also be spending billions on content development. There is no valid comparison of Netflix to MoviePass. Come on.

Note: I do agree that there is RISK in all of this spending! But the alternative, for Netflix, is losing customers to the many streaming services on the horizon. They can't afford that kind of loss.

 

[sidewinder3000]

Actually, ultimately, subscribers DO PAY for Apple's commissions. Those commissions will drive the Netflix service prices higher as they eat into profits. I'm not saying that would be the only reason for Netflix to raise their prices—but it will be a factor when it does come.

Newsflash: ALL retailers make money from the products sold in their marketplace. Some buy products for wholesale and sell them at a markup, some take a percentage. But there is a cost for makers to be in a marketplace. Only a child could believe that products could or should be sold in a marketplace without a cost. That’s how earth works.

 

[Chloros]

Who cares what Apple deserves? As a consumer, this was an easy way to save 10-20% on a Netflix subscription by buying discounted iTunes credit.
My subscription is still billed through iTunes. Should Netflix decide to cancel that, they're going to lose me as a customer.

lol......the irony in this post

 

[cube]

Newsflash: ALL retailers make money from the products sold in their marketplace. Some buy products for wholesale and sell them at a markup, some take a percentage. But there is a cost for makers to be in a marketplace. Only a child could believe that products could or should be sold in a marketplace without a cost. That’s how earth works.

The problem is when you have a marketplace monopoly.

 

[FriendlyMackle]

I think this is why they are shifting. At the same time I believe their maneuvers are why Apple is focused on content. Just like when developers and partners turned on Apple and left them holding the empty bag, they created their own so their dependence is limited.

The other reason for Apple's shift is their need to develop profitable and successful new revenue streams. Wall Street is highly critical, noticeably much more so of Apple than of companies like Microsoft or Google/Alphabet. We see the cyclical dire forecasts for Apple income each quarter, year after year.

Despite massive profits and success by any measure, the vampires on the Street always want MORE. We have reached market saturation for phones/tablets in the West and much of developed/wealthy Asia. In the remaining unsaturated markets like Latin America (to some degree), Africa, and South Asia, most of the populace don't have sufficient income to purchase Apple products (not as they are priced now).

Apple needs revenue from developed markets, because we're who have the disposable income to spend on their products. Solution: Sell new kinds of products, like services. Personally, I do think this is the right move. Licensing content leaves the licensee in the weakened position of owning nothing and making a limited profit (if any) on someone else's product while building that other company's IP value.

 

[bigchrisfgb]

I and many others have been using Netflix for a lot longer than I've owned any Apple devices so I have to disagree. I don't think Apple did much for Netflix except to take a 30% cut. I think for a service like this 5% would be enough for just hosting the app and accepting a payment.

You can’t really disagree though. Just because you used Netflix before you got Apple products, it doesn’t means they wern’t instrumental behind their success.

Before Apple came along with the iPhone and iOS, Netflix was largely a DVD rental place using postal systems and was behind the likes of Blockbuster. iOS put Netflix’s services into the hands of users who would never have been online beforehand, and would likely use Blockbuster and pay per view movies from their cable company.
Even if you have never used an Apple product, Apple have been largely behind the developments that have resulted in the likes of Netflix, Spotify, and others becoming the global service providers they now are.

 

[StarShot]

Great news. The 30% cut on IAP is absurd. No more milking free money for doing nothing Apple.

Why do you care unless you have NetFlix stock? It doesn't look like NetFlix will reduce your subscription (if you have one) by 30%. I have Apple stock and probable some NetFlix stock buried in a mutual fund.

There AIN'T no free lunch although NetFlix provides a lot of free lunchs with letting family members/friends log in to paying subsciptions. I have 3 or 4 sucking on my NetFlix account.

 

[sidewinder3000]

And Disney will be spending ten times that amount. Is Disney crazy as well? Apple, and the other streaming services will also be spending billions on content development. There is no valid comparison of Netflix to MoviePass. Come on.

Note: I do agree that there is RISK in all of this spending! But the alternative, for Netflix, is losing customers to the many streaming services on the horizon. They can't afford that kind of loss.

Sorry, but you don’t seem to have a grasp of the real spending in the marketplace. Nothing you wrote refutes anything I wrote.

Disney and Apple operate, and have always operated, on a completely different business model that Netflix. Profit in all things, all the time. They don’t run charities, and they don’t do anything for free or at a loss. Netflix are a pure Silicon Valley venture capilatized startup who’s entire business model is based on speculation. They spend money they haven’t made and hope they’ll figure out a way to be profitable down the road.

Disney will not be spending “10 times more than Netflix”. Where on earth did you get that absurd, make-believe number? Netflix spends an insane amount of money on content production that dwarves all other providers in the marketplace. In 2018 Netflix spent approximately $13 billion on non-sports programming. Which blows away NBC/Univarsal at approximately $10 billion (who spreads that cash over 10 DIFFERENT NETWORKS and a movie studio.) Netflix’s spending last year was almost double that of Disney, Fox and Time Warner ($8 billion each). And it was almost double what they themselves spent in 2017, which means that there’s a decent chance their insane budget will go even higher in 2019.

Apple is spending just a billion in content and there is zero chance that they’ll ever invest Netflix kinds of money.

MoviePass was LITERALLY billed as “Nexflix for theatres”. The comparison is absolutely valid. All you can eat media for one monthly fee. Until Netflix shows a profit, they are just a scary disrupter. Maybe they will succeed, maybe they won’t. But right now they’re spending crazy money without any guarantees of long term viability.

 

[racerhomie]

Because Apple doesn't deserve the 30% of the $7.99 or higher monthly from Netflix or any other company.

It takes money to run the App Store. Apple already does 15% after a year subscription.
[doublepost=1546047658][/doublepost]Goodbye Netflix. Never subscribing back to you. iOS’s system used to allow me to see the subscriptions I was going to renew. If you are not on this list ,wont be paying you.

 

[Rogifan]

Newsflash: ALL retailers make money from the products sold in their marketplace. Some buy products for wholesale and sell them at a markup, some take a percentage. But there is a cost for makers to be in a marketplace. Only a child could believe that products could or should be sold in a marketplace without a cost. That’s how earth works.

So why does Apple allow any free apps in the AppStore? And if they deserve a cut because allowing the app in the AppStore is bringing revenue to Netflix then why isn’t Apple taking a cut of of Uber and Lyft transactions? Or any other app that makes it convenient to pay with/from your phone? And why do they give companies the option of not offering IAP at all? Why don’t they tell Barnes & Nobel if you want your e-book app on our AppStore you have to offer IAP and we get a cut of each IAP transaction?

 

[sidewinder3000]

The problem is when you have a marketplace monopoly.

It’s not a monopoly. Apple did not enter an existing market and take it over. They created a market that didn’t exist.

And there are other, parallel markets for people to use if they don’t like Apple’s. Users can buy other phones. Service providers can make web apps.

 

[bigboy29]

What are you talking about "Netflix does not have a sustainable business model" — are we talking about the same Netflix that has tens of millions of customers worldwide and is the leading streaming provider in the USA, UK, and Europe? Netflix doesn't need Apple for service discovery. If someone doesn't know by now what Netflix is and what it does...or how to get to a web page to subscribe, then they likely won't be a customer anyway.
...

Yes, that same Netflix. I'll link to a post where I already answered this question, on page 2 of this thread. Here:

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...s-on-ios-devices.2162657/page-2#post-26948806

In other words - Netflix is taking on debt faster than they are making money. I know it's uncool to look at the debt side of things...

 

[Rogifan]

It takes money to run the App Store. Apple already does 15% after a year subscription.

Then shouldn’t every app on the AppStore have a fee (that Apple would get a cut of)?

Also isn’t the cost of running the AppStore included in the price of hardware?

 

[Ma2k5]

By the way, it’s not 30% for players like Netflix (or post 12 months), 15% max but these companies can negotiate potentially with Apple for a lower cut.