New 13-Inch MacBook Pro Sans Touch Bar is Marginally Faster But More Efficient Than Last Year's Base Model

[Hyperion0808]

Blame Intel not Apple. Intel is hitting Moores law hard and their chips in this class have not improved in the leaps and bounds that people expect. We are reaching the limit of what is possible with silicon especially in mobile chips that have to carry all the x86 legacy.

I've had a Skylake Lenovo i7 work laptop since the start of the year and in real-world usuage its no faster than my 2015 MacBook Air with its broadwell i5.

Learn to appreciate what you have and stop screaming on forums that your next hit isn't giving you high you want.

I understand it's Intel and not Apple.

As we all know, it's not entirely about the CPU and I don't think a comparison between skylake pushing windows and broadwell pushing OS X is a fair comparison.

I do appreciate what I have, very much actually and for you to say otherwise is a fairly short sighted comment. I guess no one is allowed to express their frustrations with something that they just wished offered more.
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Apple is very consistent in its updates as I have just shown. Other computer makers have equally thin laptops and also have dropped many ports over the years just not as fast as Apple. Your problem is that (a) Apple doesn't offer a broad range of laptop models (even though they are making their offering a bit broader by keeping last year's models around) and (b) the choices they offer don't match your preferred combination of battery size and ports (and possibly CPU and GPU as well).

But does this make Apple bad? I don't think so. And 10-h battery life is nothing to sneeze at, as is the CPU power available either in 28-W TDP 13" MBPs or in particular in the quad-core 45-W TDP 15" MBPs which use the highest performing mobile CPUs. The SSDs are absolutely cutting edge. Even the GPU in the 15" MBP seems to be pretty good (I know less about GPUs and thus only say 'seems'). The biggest complaint in regard to performance might be the GPU but that has been a traditional complaint against Apple, nothing much has changed there.

I definitely agree with points a and b. Gpu complaints are plenty that's for sure. Just to make myself clear, I'm not saying screw apple and I'm leaving blah blah blah. I guess I'm just frustrated with the past couple of years. I don't think it's unreasonable for us to get new tech and redesigns not on a specific timeline(not necessarily thinner/ports/specs). I understand that goes against how apple wants to be, but once it would be nice to get something new i.e. Toolbar and then the following year some more updated tech if available obviously. But maybe it doesn't work that way and it does take them that amount of time to get the experience correct. Anyway, it was nice to have an engaging productive conversation instead of just screaming at someone lol.

 

[hj576]

...and $300 more expensive. People have an expectation that this years model will be better than last year, at the same price. There is now nothing at the old rMBP 13 entry/mid-range Air price point.

Also, this one is particularly tight on ports - 4xTB3 will be fine down the line once you've bought the right cables and adapters and the USBC ecosystem has matured a bit - 2 (and nothing else) is always going to be tight. That's another thing that makes this an Air replacement rather than a MBP.

"and $300 more expensive". When comparing prices maybe compare specs as well ? The 13 in MBPr 2015 baseline comes with a 128GB SSD, bump it up to 256 GB and the price is almost the same (I think 50$ dollar less) than the 13 inch MBPr 2016 baseline (which comes with a 256GB SSD default )

 

[MacBH928]

So... why were we waiting months for the Skylake processor?

Last year model is same speed, cheaper in price, retina screen, and has USB ports?
Sounds like last year's model is better than this year's model?

 

[hj576]

So... why were we waiting months for the Skylake processor?

Last year model is same speed, cheaper in price, retina screen, and has USB ports?
Sounds like last year's model is better than this year's model?

Same speed ? The baseline, no see the benchmarks, the baseline model is not the same speed. The baseline model of 2016 is almost as good as the i7 model of last year
Cheaper in price - No again, The baseline model comes with 128GB SSD, this years model comes with a 256GB SSD, if you upgrade last years model to 256GBB, the price is almost the same (less than $50 difference)
Retina Screen- This years has better brightness, contrast and Color Gamut. Resolution isn't everything
USB Ports- Well yah, Last years model gives you more ports which is a positive

On the other hand you get a slimmer body, more powerful ports and much faster SSD

I dont really see why people think buying a new 2015 13 inch MBPr baseline is such a better option, since you can get a better product for the same price. Of course if you find a good deal on it, or get it refurbished, then its worth considering. But new with apple's official prices, Macbook Pro 13inch MBPr 2016 is a better machine to get

And I dont get all the fuss about spending $100-$200 on dongles, you can get one my by Hotoo for like $35 that gives you 2 USB type A, SD Card, HDMI and USB-C pass through ...

 

[Acceleration Apps]

We need another Steve Jobs

 

[MacBH928]

And I dont get all the fuss about spending $100-$200 on dongles, you can get one my by Hotoo for like $35 that gives you 2 USB type A, SD Card, HDMI and USB-C pass through ...

I did some research and it seems a lot of docks and extensions does not give stable performances, also there is news that there are some bad usb-c cables that can ruin/burn your laptop. Going cheap might not be the answer.

 

[Mr. Dee]

That 13" Broadwell is still considerably slower than the 15" Haswell model. Don't get too caught up in the name if speed is what you're looking at because Intel really aren't improving IPC for a few years now and there's nothing on the horizon that really changes that up much. If you're looking for off the plug efficiency then, sure, you'll squeak out an extra few percent from a newer gen and lower power model like the 13" has vs the 15"

Its fast enough for me and its not 2 generations behind.

 

[Feenician]

Its fast enough for me and its not 2 generations behind.

Cool. I had the same laptop, now with my gf, and I think it will give many, many years of great service still.

 

[TallManNY]

But it wouldn't add any cost or weight - if they used the same battery as the 2015 model. Is a notebook never thin or light enough?

Of course it would add cost and weight, a bigger batter (like what they had in 2015) costs and weighs more than what they used.

That said, I don't disagree with you about the limit of returns in saving weight. And I totally agree with you that making the laptop thinner is pointless at this point. What bag in the world does the current laptop fit into but a 1 inch thick laptop wouldn't? Thinness is meaningless. However thinness is part of lower weight. And there is a bit of value in getting a laptop down from 5 pounds to 4 pounds. But frankly not much. I think a road warrior or student who takes laptop with them all day, should get the MacBook and really save some weight. But the Pro machine can designed with the intention that it generally just sits on a desk at work.
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I don't think it's as long as 20 years ago. I added RAM to a PC 10 years ago, and it made a huge difference to the Sony Viao desktop I had at the time. It became like a new machine.

I then switched to Macs in 2008. I maxed out the RAM in the first one, because I didn't know any better. I haven't bothered since. In real world comparisons with people with standard MacBooks it didn't make a noticeable difference. It was faster, but not by much, and my real world usage requirements don't require the difference.

I added RAM to my friends Macbook Pro (2010, I think) and going from 4gb to 8gb made her machine useable on El Capitan again. It was a disaster at 4gb. But I suspect that 16gb (especially how fast it is) will be fine for future OSes even six or seven years from now. I wouldn't buy the 8gb version of the MacBook Pro though. Not future proof enough in my opinion.

 

[tob!]

Can some proud owner of a new MacBook run Geekbench with Turbo Boost disabled? (for science)

The fundamental problem in comparing Geekbench scores the short test duration so that TurboBoost kicks in. That might be a fair comparison for everyday web browsing but does not really reflect the performance a machine can deliver. I suspect that for long running pro tasks such as video exporting the new MBPs are in fact slower than the 2015 models. After all it's only a 2 GHz cpu. The reason the GeekBench Scores are so similar for almost every machine <= 13" is that they are all turbo boosting to about ~3 Ghz.

 

[840quadra]

I have a sin.... I prefer the Mighty Mouse , and really dislike the Magic Mouse with a passion, again cause I like physical buttons my worst apple product was the shuffle 3rd gen, horrible product without intuitive physical controls on the device.

I have a MacBook Pro on order so will try it, but I suspect I will be connecting my daskeyboard to it. Though let's I think I'm just getting old and grumpy .....one of my favourite macs is the 2012 Mac mini....miss my powerful upgradable macs

Glad I am not the only one with old mice aging in a drawer! I miss upgradable Macs too, & still have a mini from that era to and love it.

Their current place is harder to live with, than what drew me back into apple in the past. My first modern mac was a 2nd hand G3 B&W that I later upgraded to a G4. I later did similar with many G4 graphite and quicksilver models, with some of those still with me today as well.

More on topic, I am curious to hear your review on the new model once it arrives! Please @tagg me in that post! I have a 2015 Radeon equipped MBP that I am considering upgrading mostly because of the larger trackpad, speed improvements, and I can't lie, the multitouch strip really interests me firmly FCP and photo work.

I can't wait to try one, but the port issue, and lack of abundant USB-C / TB3 accessories out in the wild is holding me back a bit. Since gigabyte and other PC manufacturers are including more of those ports in their products, I hope that market may grow quickly. Until then, I may just upgrade the SSD in my 2015 and enjoy my glowing apple logo for another year.

 

[honam1021]

Am I the only one that don't care too much about weight or thickness? A 13' that could last 24 hours+ would be awesome even if it's going to look like a brick.

 

[DanJBS]

Well, I need both. The new MBP delivers the same tier of performance than the previous one while being more mobile. Its perfect. Its not like they would be able to jump to the next GPU tier by retaining old design. Ist so weird. People seem to complain simply because these new laptops are lighter, without apparently realising that they spot the same class of hardware than the old ones. What Apps did was to take the old laptop, replace the old parts by fastest currently available contemporary parts of the same class and then significantly reduce the laptop footprint, without sacrificing battery life. The complains about he new design are beyond comprehension.

Then they increased the old model's price by £250 and new model £700 more. If it had the same price point I think a lot of people would have been very satisfied with the new Macbooks but having to pay so much more for same performance in a smaller package and also more for their old tech is outrageaous. And yes I am aware of Brexit. Some stores somehow still afford to sell with old price.

 

[TallManNY]

Am I the only one that don't care too much about weight or thickness? A 13' that could last 24 hours+ would be awesome even if it's going to look like a brick.

Assuming you are using your laptop only 12 out of any 24 hour period, you are talking about two days of heavy use without access to a plug to recharge. I just don't get the value for that kind of battery life. Where would you be using your laptop for that period of time and not have a power supply? Even the longest non-stop international flight doesn't touch 24 hours. I mean, is this for camping? Is that your workflow issue where you need huge battery life?

The vast majority of users will use the MacBook Pro at work, plugged in, and then, maybe, carry it home every day and then plug it in at home. So for those people weight is way more important than battery life. The battery never gets stretched for more than a few hours.

Thin or thick, though, I don't care about. The only reason thin is helpful is because it makes the laptop weigh less.

 

[theluggage]

"and $300 more expensive". When comparing prices maybe compare specs as well ?

When you're talking about the entry-level machine - not so much. There is value-for-money and then there is affordability. Those of us with generous budgets have the luxury of choosing on the basis of value for money - lucky us. Those on a fixed budget have to worry about affordability - and Apple have just added several hundred bucks to the entry fee for the Apple club.

(Oh, and there's the connectivity issue - 2 x TB3 + nothing versus 2xTB2 + 2xUSB 3 + microSD + HDMI + Charge is not a clear win)

I think past experience led most of us to expect things like faster performance and more SSD for the same price as 2015 - that's been the model for, well, most of the history of the PC industry. Looks like those days are gone.

Currently, they're saved by the continued availability of the 13" Air, which will still be "good enough" for many - but that's out-of-date technology with a low-res screen. I think it may stick around for a while. The 12" MacBook has its role but is too much of a compromise for the sake of portability (and not particularly cheap).

 

[leman]

Am I the only one that don't care too much about weight or thickness? A 13' that could last 24 hours+ would be awesome even if it's going to look like a brick.

There are legal limitations on how large laptop batteries can be. You are already getting around 10-12 hours with 2016 13" model.
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Then they increased the old model's price by £250 and new model £700 more. If it had the same price point I think a lot of people would have been very satisfied with the new Macbooks but having to pay so much more for same performance in a smaller package and also more for their old tech is outrageaous. And yes I am aware of Brexit. Some stores somehow still afford to sell with old price.

As discussed in many threads, and also posted out by independent analysts, its fairly likely that the new prices simply reflect the new, more expensive production process (display, touch bar, finish, etc.). We have experienced massive price hikes every time a new design was introduced. This was the case with first unibody machines, the first air and the first retina machines. There is little doubt that the prices will go down as the production matures. I expect prices for the next year's refresh to be more in line with the previous pricing.

 

[budafied]

Cheaper in price - No again, The baseline model comes with 128GB SSD, this years model comes with a 256GB SSD, if you upgrade last years model to 256GBB, the price is almost the same (less than $50 difference)

Yea, but 256GB should be the standard anyways. You shouldn't compare prices based on last year's standards. Apple used to upgrade the HDD every year (160 > 250 > 320 > 500) without any upgrade in cost. That's because technology gets cheaper over time. 256GB SSD should be the lowest standard across all Apple models (maybe higher for certain models), and that alone should result in no price increase over previous models. The touch bar thing should be the only thing that could justify a price increase, and even that is absurd IMO.

 

[pbasmadj]

This is not about affording or not. I can go and buy 10 of them tomorrow if i want, but as a sane person i'm not going to use my hard earned money as a toilet paper.

While I agree with that, my argument is that it is in fact a pretty good deal, especially the non touch bar version. Benchmarks very high, great ssd, great keyboard, screen, speakers, design, everything about it. And at $1,499, it isn't that bad. As said earlier in the thread, the original Air was $1,799! This computer is by all means a masterpiece in comparison, and of course times have changed, but I think the price is fair. The touchbar models are obviously a bit pricier. One thing I am a little not happy about is them not releasing a 15 without the touch bar.

 

[sageman72]

Can some proud owner of a new MacBook run Geekbench with Turbo Boost disabled? (for science)

The fundamental problem in comparing Geekbench scores the short test duration so that TurboBoost kicks in. That might be a fair comparison for everyday web browsing but does not really reflect the performance a machine can deliver. I suspect that for long running pro tasks such as video exporting the new MBPs are in fact slower than the 2015 models. After all it's only a 2 GHz cpu. The reason the GeekBench Scores are so similar for almost every machine <= 13" is that they are all turbo boosting to about ~3 Ghz.

I would find that interesting as well, I´m having a hard time believing that a current generation 15w cpu is on par with previous generation 28w cpu..

 

[MH01]

Glad I am not the only one with old mice aging in a drawer! I miss upgradable Macs too, & still have a mini from that era to and love it.

Their current place is harder to live with, than what drew me back into apple in the past. My first modern mac was a 2nd hand G3 B&W that I later upgraded to a G4. I later did similar with many G4 graphite and quicksilver models, with some of those still with me today as well.

More on topic, I am curious to hear your review on the new model once it arrives! Please @tagg me in that post! I have a 2015 Radeon equipped MBP that I am considering upgrading mostly because of the larger trackpad, speed improvements, and I can't lie, the multitouch strip really interests me firmly FCP and photo work.

I can't wait to try one, but the port issue, and lack of abundant USB-C / TB3 accessories out in the wild is holding me back a bit. Since gigabyte and other PC manufacturers are including more of those ports in their products, I hope that market may grow quickly. Until then, I may just upgrade the SSD in my 2015 and enjoy my glowing apple logo for another year.

I'll message you once I get it, in case you want me to run any tests, take pics or .... well anything .

I suspect I will get a 2015 MacBook Pro. I've invested in a sonnet express and it's got a gtx 1070 in it , I have been using it with my Mac mini 2012 over TB1 and it's a fantastic combination (windows), fast quad core with 1070 graphics....it's even a great gaming machine. TB3 is not a huge jump in practice terms of bandwidth limitation when it comes to the GPU. TB2 will be perfect, now only issue is pascal drivers on macOS

 

[pbasmadj]

I'll message you once I get it, in case you want me to run any tests, take pics or .... well anything .

I suspect I will get a 2015 MacBook Pro. I've invested in a sonnet express and it's got a gtx 1070 in it , I have been using it with my Mac mini 2012 over TB1 and it's a fantastic combination (windows), fast quad core with 1070 graphics....it's even a great gaming machine. TB3 is not a huge jump in practice terms of bandwidth limitation when it comes to the GPU. TB2 will be perfect, now only issue is pascal drivers on macOS

Ah! Give the new one a chance, before you go that route. I am in love with this computer. I know that sounds like a bit much, but I really am. The non touch bar model is perfection. I am betting the touchbar models will also be cool, although I don't see myself willing to pay any extra premium for them.

 

[hj576]

Well I just ordered the 13inch Base Line model. I will be answering questions when I receive it (next week since its still not available here in Netherlands )

 

[pbasmadj]

Well I just ordered the 13inch Base Line model. I will be answering questions when I receive it (next week since its still not available here in Netherlands )

Very nice. You will love it. Typing on it now! Amazing computer.

 

[hj576]

Very nice. You will love it. Typing on it now! Amazing computer.

Thank You
People here really paint a very sad picture and i was scared of ordering, but just decided to go ahead with it, I have been waiting to change my laptop for 6 months and have been saving up for around 10 months now I have read 3 in depth reviews so far, the benchmark results seem to be good, the battery results all say over 10 hours. And I know I will have to buy a hub, but well you have to make sacrifices

 

[Osty]

I do appreciate what I have, very much actually and for you to say otherwise is a fairly short sighted comment. I guess no one is allowed to express their frustrations with something that they just wished offered more.

Sorry mate, wasn't casting aspersions or sniping. I understand he frustrations especially for all the videographers and users with similar performance needs for whom this revision has been a great disappointment.

My reaction was partly because of reading days of negative posts on this site and listening to it from podcasters I respect.

Honestly though, I think we expect far too much from Apple's magic wand. Apple's dealing with some difficult constraints, admittedly many are self imposed. There's only so much performance than can be delivered when they're are shooting for thin and light with that thermal envelope.

If people want uncompromisingly power, they should get a desktop. Apple makes... oh wait...