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There are industries out there that have studios or entire premise completely invested into the Mac ecosystem, and then the people working there invested much of their career skill set as well. Apple's middle finger to this demographic is much bigger than you can imagine.
Maybe they shouldn't have built an industry that is so heavily reliant on one company. People who have invested much of their career skill set in working on Apple computers I'm sure are "pro" users who are very technically savvy and could very easily work on a windows machine. I work in the accounting department for a large plastics extrusions company and we still run windows 98 on our computers, trust me the new mac pro's can't possibly be that bad.
 
There are industries out there that have studios or entire premise completely invested into the Mac ecosystem, and then the people working there invested much of their career skill set as well. Apple's middle finger to this demographic is much bigger than you can imagine.

Don't worry, the Surface line will pick up the slack. They've noticed the growing weak spot in the ecosystem, and are now starting to zero in on it, with an amazing acceleration, as if intent on breaking Apple entirely. Can't say as I enjoy MS, but they get props for stepping up their game lately, and the competition may do good things, if they fail to move these core users away from the ecosystem. MS clearly knows just who they are, and are working to deliver what they need.
 
Maybe they shouldn't have built an industry that is so heavily reliant on one company. People who have invested much of their career skill set in working on Apple computers I'm sure are "pro" users who are very technically savvy and could very easily work on a windows machine. I work in the accounting department for a large plastics extrusions company and we still run windows 98 on our computers, trust me the new mac pro's can't possibly be that bad.
Were not all number crunchers, some of us need/require heavy CPU and GPU's and they have had improvements in the three-plus years since the last Mac Pro update. CPU and GPU intensive tasks take time, faster processors cut that time and allow more to be done in a shorter period of time. Surely an accountant realizes time is money, and a heathy bottom line is always appreciated.
 
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Jeez. Post 37. Specifically this bit;
…..the controller for your static workstation. In fact you need to use less wires than the previous generations, as everything comes to life just by plugging in one cable, rather than 10.
So;
If your workstation is static why get a MacBook and not an iMac or Mac Pro/Mini?
Because you also want or need a laptop and having only one computer is more convenient that having to deal with two.
Less wires to the Mac but MORE in total, if you have those 10 devices you need 10+1 cables with a dock.
Which Mac actually had 10+ ports? Only the Mac Pro (both current and older versions). For everybody else wanting to connect 10 peripherals already meant some sort of dock or hub (eg, USB hub). And the impact of cables that are hidden behind a dock is much less than having ten cables (a) sticking out of your laptop and (b) requiring constant unplugging and replugging.
The cost of the SD slot is without doubt minimal. Realistically it would probably add $3 to the cost of the machine. Give the choice of a $3000 Mackbook without or a $3003 MacBook with. I know which I and I suspect most people would choose.
Shutting down the missing-SD-card-slot critics is worth much more to Apple than the $3 saved per machine.
 
If you lose the content creators, over time there will be a famine. Look at how gaming is non-existent on the Mac side, bungie originally planned 'Halo' for the Mac, it never arrived even after an onstage demo with Steve. Many app creators can push to other platforms and the golden age of the iPhone will be over. Or Apple will allow app creation (Xcode) on other platforms.

The point is Apple needs to maintain a healthy ecosystem. Those of you clamoring "it's fast enough" "16GB RAM is more than plenty" don't realize many of the apps and services are built on the exact hardware you have access to yourselves and content creators are always pushing the limits for what they create, which require pushing the potential of the hardware. A healthy ecosystem needs evolution at every level from the mightiest Mac Pro to the smallest dongle.
 
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I'm glad you aren't upset! I hear you. But, while this is true for you, it doesn't mean it is for others...Your statement suggests that because there will always be future revisions a particular iteration is as good as any other iteration of a product line...That isn't true. Most of the time, that wouldn't matter much, given that typically people wait a year for a new model. Don't like this one? Wait a year. But, with Apple waiting so long to update stuff, I think it made it harder for folks to hold off, if they had misgivings (and a non-working laptop).
I didn't mean my comment the way you interpreted it. An earlier poster said that everyone that bought the 2016 was going to feel screwed. I knew when I purchased the 2016 that there was the possibility they might do what they are doing, but I needed to replace my old MBP that I had been waiting and limping along with and went for it. Do I wish I could get one with Kaby Lake? Well, yes I do but reality is I can't afford to turn around and buy another computer so soon. Every iteration has improvements I agree, but I can't afford to buy each new computer iteration that comes out. So if I need to purchase, I do my research and then decide what to purchase. I can't see hesitating in this situation when I need to make a purchase waiting on the off chance that something better is coming but who knows when and can you keep waiting. I could not wait any longer and purchased. I just meant that I am not feeling that I was not screwed by Apple unless there was proof that they knew they were going to do this, and then I would feel that that was unfair to not have had some heads up about it. But I don't think my old MBP would have lasted until Kaby Lake ones come out.
 
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The point is Apple needs to maintain a healthy ecosystem. Those of you clamoring "it's fast enough" "16GB RAM is more than plenty" don't realize many of the apps and services are built on the exact hardware you have access to yourselves and content creators are always pushing the limits for what they create...

Some fail to appreciate dev & creative pro tools typically always require more RAM then target consumer devices.

Usually 4x the memory of target device.

This applies for game & application development and video.

Apple raised the baseline to 8GB, thus a 32GB option is in fact needed.
 
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Maybe they shouldn't have built an industry that is so heavily reliant on one company. People who have invested much of their career skill set in working on Apple computers I'm sure are "pro" users who are very technically savvy and could very easily work on a windows machine. I work in the accounting department for a large plastics extrusions company and we still run windows 98 on our computers, trust me the new mac pro's can't possibly be that bad.
You are kind of right in saying your first statement. Decisions in creative fields often are based on immediate productivity, or at most a few years down the road, with options left wide open after that. It just so happened that Apple was one of the few companies who consistently proved itself a competent choice, so people grew into the assumption of them keeping to do so, which they don't as of now. You can say we misplaced our trust and expectation on our own behalf.
 
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... It just so happened that Apple was one of the few companies who consistently proved itself a competent choice, so people grew into the assumption of them keeping to do so, which they don't as of now. You can say we misplaced our trust and expectation on our own behalf.

Exactly.

Imagine the outrage when an iPhone update isn't the in now established September, and yearly updates aren't yearly. Imagine if the skipped the iPhone 6s and waited for the 7 in 2016, or skipped the 7 waiting for 2017...

When a company sets a precedence based on more than the last decade, it tends to irk con/prosumers when they "drop the ball".
 
Maybe they shouldn't have built an industry that is so heavily reliant on one company.

Pretty sure that wasn't an intentional, considered decision by one person, or even a committee. It just happened, as such things often do. And Apple profited substantially from it. In many regards, it was make or break. It wouldn't be a bad idea for Apple to bear this core market in mind and cater to their specific needs. A ton of other companies cater to mainstream consumer computer use, and most of them do better than Apple in terms of price/performance (if that weren't a factor, we would all have custom computers, in the limit), except for the locked-in ecosystem that contains some things that some of the users are reliant on, creating a barrier to exit. Increasing the impetus to cross that barrier may not be the wrong choice, but it's certainly a risky one, especially at a time when a huge competing company is turning their attention to exactly this "safe" customer base.
 
Having said that... my first Gen 2012 Retina has been brilliant and still powers on. The others since, up to the recent redesign, have been tiny incremental improvements.. nothing radical at all

I think you'd notice a tangible difference, particularly in battery life, rendering performance, keyboard backlighting and the display (on the newest models). But they most likely don't justify an upgrade. This is probably partly why Apple has let the Mac slide, there's less money in it as people hold on to them a lot longer.
 
Don't worry, the Surface line will pick up the slack. They've noticed the growing weak spot in the ecosystem, and are now starting to zero in on it, with an amazing acceleration, as if intent on breaking Apple entirely. Can't say as I enjoy MS, but they get props for stepping up their game lately, and the competition may do good things, if they fail to move these core users away from the ecosystem. MS clearly knows just who they are, and are working to deliver what they need.
MS does display a strong desire to tackle this segment. They had the balls to present the Surface Studio literally days before the MacWorld keynote, expecting Apple to under-deliver, at least as far as creatives are concerned. Every single demo of the tilted screen, the stylus/touch interface, the dial, speak directly to creatives in a positive manner. On the flip side, during the MBP reveal, even the Adobe rep on stage was struggling to show how the touch bar actually helps Photoshop workflow that wasn't already possible with keyboard shortcuts, which every seasoned pro probably knows them all.

The Surface pro/book lines also are beating the iPad Pros like they are nothing. The ability to run desktop class applications on a tablet, however gimped the performance may be, is a huge productivity advantage. And Apple keeps giving excuses on how touch interface doesn't work for OS X, which is not even the point. People actually want to run OS X on iPads, not run iOS on MacBooks.

In 2 or 3 years I can see the Surface line up taking center stage, right now the products are in infancy / refinement process with only a few technical barriers that only takes time to break. Apple on the other hand will need to do the impossible: take their heads out of their arses.
 
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They need to do a lot more then add 32GB's of RAM before they get me back as a customer, that's for sure.
 
Maybe they should have waited a bit longer and made sure the MacBook Pro was a great product on release. More evidence that Apple have no idea what they're doing.

I agree to some extent. There was no way in the world Apple was going to miss out on the opportunity of the Christmas holiday sales, so they pumped out the late 2016 MBP and let the magic of marketing do the rest. However, I don't believe it's an unfinished product - it's still a hellacious machine - but there's little doubt it could have been better. I find it inconvenient that some very useful ports are gone, but thankfully those inconveniences are easily mitigated. Though it's currently lacking, the Touch Bar has potential.

This is a good rumor, kids... dare I say, let's be happy?!
 
And by those numbers it means that 4,750,000 have never, ever used the SD slot.

Would you really push for charging 4,750,000 people more for something they'll never use, so that just 250,000 can benefit from it? Keep in mind that doesn't even mean those 5% use it regularly, only that they've used it a single time.

The truth is, most are perfectly fine with the lack of an SD slot which is why you don't see articles on major news sites crying about the lack of one.


You do know when Apple removes something like magsafe, superdrive or a SD card slot, the price doesn't come down AT ALL, right? Did the price of the MacBook Pro come down when they removed the other ports? When Apple removed the superdrive from the Imac, did the price come down? All it did was bump their profit margins.

Please just buy an Air, which is the right computer for people who value thinness, simplicity and low price over everything else (which is just fine, by the way, for some customers), and stop complaining about people that are happy and willing to pay more for additional flexibility and capability actually built in to their computers.
 
Because I think your lineup is crap means I blindly follow Apple?

1) every inch increments is stupid. No reason to do any of that.
2) air is discontinued so why bring that up?
3) single inch increments for MacBook and pro, completely idiotic to do that with not enough differentiation. Just have 13 and 15.
4) yes I am happy. A portable 12 inch lightweight laptop, a 13 inch pro laptop that is more budget than high end top laptop, a 13 inch more portable top laptop and a 15 inch top laptop.
Okay then, you don't follow Apple, I guess we just have different ideas about what a clean lineup is.

1) Apple do it already, 12" and 13". It makes a noticeable difference.
2) Because it's still being sold as the latest generation and as its own product. It is not discontinued.
3) A 14" could range anywhere from 13.9 to 14.1, meaning it is more than an inch smaller. It would still be enough to differentiate since the dimensions would be around the same size as a 13" MacBook Air. It is fine for the consumer lineup, and the 15" Pro could increase to 16".
4) That's fine if you're happy with it. Many aren't due to the confusion that it may cause consumers.
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13" has been a sweet spot for quite some time. It makes sense to have multiple offerings. Three models is a transitional offering as they phase out non-retina screens. Your line-up doesn't include a $999, non-retina entry level model.
Yes I understand that, but the base model will likely stay since it is a completely different machine to the Touch Bar model. Having said that, they could move all 13" models to 15W due to the performance similarities but hopefully not.

I didn't mention the prices, but they will obviously not stay as they are. The 12" would be $899-$999, similar to how pricing may be in a few years. Although this year it may be a reduction to $1099.
 
I very much doubt that. This rumor will kill a decent number of sales of the current machine, for which a replacement is at least 6 months, and probably closer to 9 months, away. That's bad for business. While I know rumors are rumors, I'm sure not buying a current MacBook Pro right now, and I'm in the market for one.

Pro market is small. Pro market is also rarely early adopter. Non-pro market mostly doesn't care (apples are pretty, and always have been)
 
Okay then, you don't follow Apple, I guess we just have different ideas about what a clean lineup is.

1) Apple do it already, 12" and 13". It makes a noticeable difference.
2) Because it's still being sold as the latest generation and as its own product. It is not discontinued.
3) A 14" could range anywhere from 13.9 to 14.1, meaning it is more than an inch smaller. It would still be enough to differentiate since the dimensions would be around the same size as a 13" MacBook Air. It is fine for the consumer lineup, and the 15" Pro could increase to 16".
4) That's fine if you're happy with it. Many aren't due to the confusion that it may cause consumers.
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Yes I understand that, but the base model will likely stay since it is a completely different machine to the Touch Bar model. Having said that, they could move all 13" models to 15W due to the performance similarities but hopefully not.

I didn't mention the prices, but they will obviously not stay as they are. The 12" would be $899-$999, similar to how pricing may be in a few years. Although this year it may be a reduction to $1099.
Your lineup is a complete waste of resources and has no purpose with half the machines.
1) 12" vs 13" are different lineups, one is a portable lightweight machine MacBook while the other is a heavier duty MacBook Pro.
2) declared by Apple to be discontinued. To focus on it is idiocy. Clearly they will sell until stock is out, but looking at lineup and hypothesizing future decisions based on a discontinued product that won't be in the future plans is ridiculous.
3) oh man. 1.1" difference. I apologize... there is zero reason for anybody to pick 14" over 15", or 14" over 13", etc. within the same lineup. If they had 12" and 14" MacBook, with 13" and 15" MacBook Pro, then your 14" idea has merit.
4) clearly we do, and I'd say most of us who like Apple would be glad you're not running it.
 
32GB RAM sounds too much for a laptop.
A desktop might be better suited for a pro who needs 32GB.
 
32GB RAM sounds too much for a laptop.
A desktop might be better suited for a pro who needs 32GB.
Believe it or not there are times Pros aren't sitting at a desk needing to get things done. Sometimes they are in the field or out on location/site and still need to get things done.
 
I had a feeling something big would happen in 2017 after I saw the 2016 MBPs. If the redo of the 15" MBP is correct, it will be time to upgrade from the 2015 15".
 
MS does display a strong desire to tackle this segment. They had the balls to present the Surface Studio literally days before the MacWorld keynote, expecting Apple to under-deliver, at least as far as creatives are concerned. Every single demo of the tilted screen, the stylus/touch interface, the dial, speak directly to creatives in a positive manner.

Bingo. They knew Apple had gotten complacent, and they knew they had a great product, and they had the courage to trust they had the upper hand, much like Jobs used to do. And, as you say, the balls to launch at the time when it was going to have the greatest impact, win or lose, on both companies. A very focused presentation, and a convincing one. Clearly, this is not the MS we're used to, and the competition has just started for real.

On the flip side, during the MBP reveal, even the Adobe rep on stage was struggling to showhow the touch bar actually helps Photoshop workflow that wasn't already possible with keyboard shortcuts, which every seasoned pro probably knows them all.

Presumably because the touch bar, though an interesting concept, isn't really all that helpful. Jobs outlined this some time ago, how the keyboard area is something you use by muscle memory. TB is the antithesis of that, being dynamic, visual, obscured by your fingers and lacking any of the tactile guidance you've learned to rely on as a touch typist. (Predictive typing is probably useful for hunt and peck, but the reason we have it on cell phones is to compensate for the lack of a proper keyboard, not because it's inherently fast.)

There is another modality that suits the touch bar, however, which is visual interaction, based on hand-eye coordination. This requires an unobstructed view of the hands and what they're interacting with, such as on a touch screen. It's very useful in some contexts, and very useful to the non-pro segment, as well. But the TB is, again, the antithesis of that, as its visibility is low due to its placement, it offers little real estate to work on, and it's being conceptualized as a keyboard element, as well as cluttered with controls that -do- belong on a keyboard.

I could see enlarging the trackpad further and turning it into a full featured multitouch secondary display. That might have some potential. I suspect a lot of potential. But it would also be more expensive, among other things, and would require a lot of development to mature into something to put on a product. Especially an already expensive premium product that's weighed down with expectations.

If I were in charge of the process that led to the TB, my approach would have been to launch a revised Magic Trackpad, even larger, featuring a high resolution OLED display surface and pencil support, as a seperate product to be used as a testbed for further development, but functional out of the box and incentivized with the pencil. Update some apps for it, throw in useful widgets/dock elements on there, work on polishing the way it interacts with the system, put great APIs over there. Then let that mature until it's ready for prime time and add it to the MBP generation after that, expanding it further to cover the entire area below the keyboard if the cost/benefit allows for it.

'Course, that's just my top-of-my-head naive idea of how it could've been done. Got no experience with this stuff.

The Surface pro/book lines also are beating the iPad Pros like they are nothing. The ability to run desktop class applications on a tablet is a huge productivity advantage. And Apple keeps giving excuses on how touch interface doesn't work for OS X, which is not even the point.

Yeah, the SP4 was nice in that regard. And the pen for it, almost as good as the pencil, and with an eraser (my number one request for the pencil, other than being supported on more devices than just the iPad Pro). Frankly, the SP4 was a computer, not just a tablet. True two in one. Would've loved to see it with macOS or iOS as a dual boot option. Except, noisy SSDs are a dealbreaker for me.

In 2 or 3 years I can see the Surface line up taking center stage, right now the products are in infancy / refinement process with only a few technical barriers that only takes time to break. Apple on the other hand will need to do the impossible: take their heads out of their arses.

Surface is an experiment, and holds its own against finished products, which is promising. Much like how Google Pixel, the first in-house product, went up against serious long term refined competition and didn't get KO'd in the first round. Really stunning. Refined and polished, they will be impressive, and force Apple to step up their own game. Maybe that's what it takes. Hit the wallet, make them hungry again. I dunno.

I'm actually liking the tMBP without touch bar, and am excited about the ports change, except I think they should've kept the SD card (harder to replace and easier to do well internally) and included some legacy ports until the update (by then, the problem will be resolved, and the timeline would've avoided the current situation of every product being sold out due to people switching all at the same time). Maybe not launched with broken HDMI support. Waited to get the full battery capacity in there, rather than rushing for the Q4 sale season. Perhaps a keyboard that won't get me thrown out of the library for being loud. Upgradeable RAM and SSD would've been nice, too, but hey. What was I saying again? Oh, yes. Love it. Not a peep from the SSD. Just adore it. :)
 
If only Apple had a competitive desktop offered without 3 year old components at day one prices (i.e. Mac Pro).

Funny thing though, when they were announced that is how it was marketed, in an editing studio, hooked up to two 5K displays with dual raids over Thunderbolt. You'd think they'd have put a little disclaimer at the bottom that using these wasn't they're intended for video editing purposes.
Not disagreeing with you, but just merely stating you have to cut through the marketing BS and understand what is really needed to accomplish your goals. By the way you wrote you post, you seemed to have bought into the idea that a slim laptop is the tool of choice for computational-heavy video work. Just want to make sure you realize that idea is not a good one. As far was when the desktops are coming... I am waiting on Apple as well.
 
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