Scott-n-Houston
macrumors 65816
Do you work for Apple?
HAHA. Nope. I'm just a recovering anal-retentive SOB. I used to be extremely so with my cars, and am now not so much... and with technology, I'm also on like step 10 of the 12 step program.
New 24" Penryn iMac owners....screen bleed fixed???
- Thread starter dantay
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HAHA. Nope. I'm just a recovering anal-retentive SOB. I used to be extremely so with my cars, and am now not so much... and with technology, I'm also on like step 10 of the 12 step program.
dantay
macrumors 6502
HAHA. Nope. I'm just a recovering anal-retentive SOB. I used to be extremely so with my cars, and am now not so much... and with technology, I'm also on like step 10 of the 12 step program.
LOL! Sounds like a program Apple should run in-store!
czachorski
macrumors 6502a
All the units I have seen have darker edges (some with a yellow tinge on a white screen) The blue colour cast is a new one to me but that could be the gradient others are talking about? The left hand side is always brighter, its only ok-ish if you ramp the backlight up to full but then as I said the bleed is REALLY bad.
You use the words "always" and "all" an awful lot.
I too am not "trained for color", and would say that mine is perfect to the eyes, right up until you put a light meter on it (using a technique shown to me by Leon Kolowski of this board using a digital camera). That shows about a 20% brightness non-uniformity. But it is not right-to-left (hence my objection to your use of the term "the left hand side is always brighter"), but it is slightly darker in the corners compared to the middle, almost uniformly so for all 4 corners.
I think this highlights the challenges of these discussions. I would look at my screen with my eyes (as I suspect most would) and say it is perfect. It can easily be proven not to be "perfect" with a light meter, but does it really matter? For me, it does not. I suspect this would be true for the vast majority of people who are likely to buy a 24" iMac.
But for those who want it to be absolutely perfect, even under testing conditions, I can understand the label of it being like "finding a needle in a haystack". I just think it is important to also identify the practical differences in the perception of the quality before making such statements. That is what I hoped to accomplish with this post.
ukmacmonster
macrumors member
I think you could get very anal about this issue. I would say if you're not a professional photo/video editor and you are not aware of any problems with your display during use, then you really don't have a problem. But if you find that either:-
a) The quality of your work is suffering as a result of the display quality
b) The display simply pisses you off during normal use
then you do have a problem. Simple as that. Also applies to the lower quality 20" TN displays. Many users are happy with those and therefore don't have a problem. Best advice is to view the displays for yourself and make your own mind up. I've viewed a fair number of 20" and 24" iMac displays. While I wasn't happy at all with the latest 20" display (washed out colours, narrow viewing angle, obvious top-bottom gradient), I thought the 24" was absolutely fine for my needs. If dantay is correct (and I have no reason to doubt him) then the 24" displays I viewed would have had the "bleed issue". But I simply didn't notice it, so it's not a problem (for me). Anyway I'm about to start living with one of these displays shortly, so I'll be back ranting if I don't like it.
a) The quality of your work is suffering as a result of the display quality
b) The display simply pisses you off during normal use
then you do have a problem. Simple as that. Also applies to the lower quality 20" TN displays. Many users are happy with those and therefore don't have a problem. Best advice is to view the displays for yourself and make your own mind up. I've viewed a fair number of 20" and 24" iMac displays. While I wasn't happy at all with the latest 20" display (washed out colours, narrow viewing angle, obvious top-bottom gradient), I thought the 24" was absolutely fine for my needs. If dantay is correct (and I have no reason to doubt him) then the 24" displays I viewed would have had the "bleed issue". But I simply didn't notice it, so it's not a problem (for me). Anyway I'm about to start living with one of these displays shortly, so I'll be back ranting if I don't like it.
Darkroom
Guest
HAHA. Nope. I'm just a recovering anal-retentive SOB. I used to be extremely so with my cars, and am now not so much... and with technology, I'm also on like step 10 of the 12 step program.
the point here is that no one should have to be anal about a manufacturers error on a $2000+ computer... it really is a big deal for imaging technicians and film makers... there's absolutly no way the technicians at apple missed this, and they're just pushing them thru on sales because they're "good enough"...
of course this makes good business sense, as only a handful of users are going to either complain or be bothered to take it back for a new one, in the hopes of possibly getting one that doesn't have any light leaks or color casts... so i'm officially no longer smitten by apple, they're just as bad as any other major corp.
xxjuicymintxx
macrumors regular
I remember when I had my 24" Aluminum iMac, I hated the backlight leakage.
I was disappointed Apple. I spent a lot of $ on you, and got let down. [yet still, i'm a loyal customer!]
I'm going to get a white 24" iMac.
I was disappointed Apple. I spent a lot of $ on you, and got let down. [yet still, i'm a loyal customer!]
I'm going to get a white 24" iMac.
ukmacmonster
macrumors member
Of course Apple are as bad as any other major corp, that's exactly what they are. It would be interesting to know what percentage of pro imaging techs find the latest 24" iMac inadequate. I know some use it as a cost effective alternative to the Apple pro machines. I'm just trying to gauge how big this error really is.
czachorski
macrumors 6502a
I agree with this. I will also add that Apple seems to have shifted their focus on who they want to "get smitten by them" so as to pertain to a larger audience. That larger audience is less concerned with many details of the hardware, and Apple has correctly picked up on this and adjusted their hardware offerings accordingly in a profit-maximizing move. It is just normal corporate profit self-interest.
The same observation can be applied to the lower quality panels in the 20" iMac, and the glossiness across the line. They are all consistent with this same strategy shift. While it is great for Apple, and great for consumers who fit this mold, it is understandably frustrating to some of the old-school Apple users who long for the old Apple focus.
JayLenochiniMac
macrumors G5
....for non-professional customers. Maybe imaging technicians and filmmakers shouldn't take the cheap route and spring for a 2k computer when they should be working on 10k+ machines. For many, the glossy screen itself is the dealbreaker, so Apple obviously doesn't intended them for pro use. $2,000 is hardly a lot of money.
well as a standard webdesigner & programmer I can tell you that the screen does pose a problem also.. considering this is a machine that had been popular in the industry for anything to do with a design, i would say it affects alot of people.. i mean most everyone has a job and alot of people use their computer for their work.. there really should be no excuses directed towards the user on this.. they/we have every right to want a normal functioning screen
Scott-n-Houston
macrumors 65816
I hate to tell you, but there are $100K cars with issues that just go out the door across the board. I've owned a couple.
This is what has made me not worry too much about things like this. Just because you pay a lot doesn't mean you're going to get "no issues".
My iMac is great for me. I paid $2000, and think it's worth all of that... for me.
It's up to you whether you want to be anal about things you buy regardless of cost.
czachorski
macrumors 6502a
Those are pretty generalized statements. Of course we all have a right to want a normal functioning screen. Many would say what Apple is offering is a normal functioning screen. They have obviously shafted you if the screen does not function normally for your needs for web-designing and programming. Is that what you were trying to say, because I wasn't getting it from your post??? It's not clear how programming would be affected by screen quality, but I can certainly see web designing - the 24" screen seems to have a pretty good panel for color and gradient issues - how exactly does backlight bleed affect web designing?
Darkroom
Guest
for an all in one computer, $2000 is a lot of money... if the screens on the white iMacs were amazing, then these newer machines should be as good or better no?... stop being such apple fan boys and realize that apple has made a mistake with their screens... anyone hear of the term "poor artist" before?
not every photographer/film maker is rich and can afford Mac Pro + ACD...
ukmacmonster
macrumors member
They had various issues too. I'm sitting in front of one right now and it's got an annoying bright band across the bottom, but otherwise it's excellent. The low end 17" iMacs had cheap TN panels too. Maybe the matte panels were better suited to pro graphics use and didn't suffer the dreaded backlight bleed. But anyway I'm still looking forward to my new 24" iMac. As an overall package it still works for me.
SaSaSushi
macrumors 601
I've already told this story in another thread so I will summarize to say that I just got my 24" aluminum iMac back from Apple for the second time with an LCD panel replacement. Both the original and first replacement screen had minor gradients although it had nothing to do with why they were replaced. This third one seems to be in the class of Czachorski's. I don't detect any gradient at all from looking at it although I suspect it would not be absolutely perfect results if I did a luminance test.
Backlight issues and glossy/matte debates aside the LCD panels on the new iMacs are better quality (H-IPS) panels than those of the prior white generation. They are brighter, sharper, have a higher contrast ratio and better viewing angle. Apple may have also finally worked out the uneven backlighting if my replacement panel is any indication. I hope so anyway. I suppose I might have just gotten lucky.
I said this about a thousand times in all the old gradient discussions but if your iMac has a horrid and obvious gradient then send it back to Apple for a replacement.
If you have to use a luminance meter to detect the gradient I question whether you actually have a problem at all.
benzslrpee
macrumors 6502
i don't understand why are some of you choosing an iMac? if after 3 or more returns and the screen still doesn't suit you, then it would appear that you'll be better serviced with some other machine. Apple isn't the only answer.
if your tastes and requirements are in the Ferrari price range but you only have the funds for a Honda...either increase your bank account or decrease your expectations.
*edit: oh yeah, go take a look at the dvd extras on a Pixar movie where they give you tours of their campus...you'll get a up close look at what real pros use to animate/render/draw. i guarantee that not everyone is hooked up with a 30" ACD. in fact, i saw everything from iBooks to some Windows boxes.*
if your tastes and requirements are in the Ferrari price range but you only have the funds for a Honda...either increase your bank account or decrease your expectations.
*edit: oh yeah, go take a look at the dvd extras on a Pixar movie where they give you tours of their campus...you'll get a up close look at what real pros use to animate/render/draw. i guarantee that not everyone is hooked up with a 30" ACD. in fact, i saw everything from iBooks to some Windows boxes.*
I bought a 3.06ghz brand new on tuesday in the Apple store in Rome.
it has the gradient issue, i'm so disappointed
just talk with the customer care, tomorrow i have to go there and they will replace it immediately (they have some in stock).
i hope that i found a imac with no gradient issue, the law here in italy is very different, is very difficult to have the cash money back if i'm not satisficted with my apple's machine.
let's see.
it has the gradient issue, i'm so disappointed
just talk with the customer care, tomorrow i have to go there and they will replace it immediately (they have some in stock).
i hope that i found a imac with no gradient issue, the law here in italy is very different, is very difficult to have the cash money back if i'm not satisficted with my apple's machine.
let's see.
Interesting interpretation of custom build by apple.
I post this hear because I realize having ordered a 3.06 that I will likely need to return it due to screen gradient. I choose the stock 3.06 24" that included the 500 GB drive and 8800 GS Nividia graphics card. When I got my e-mail back from apple confirming the order they interpreted that as a custom build despite my not modifying the order one bit from what is offered on the website. The apple rep stated that it was a custom build because of the 8800 graphics card. This seems deceiving to me as I did not order custom yet they determine it is so I could be stuck with it as custom configurations cannot be returned. The rep said he would make a note for a one time return exception. If I wind up with a screen gradient problem I am going to go with a Pro or a mini and return the whole thing. I went to Best Buy to look at a demo and changed the desktop background to white. The yellow bands present were horrible and way worse than my G5 20 inch i-Mac.
I post this hear because I realize having ordered a 3.06 that I will likely need to return it due to screen gradient. I choose the stock 3.06 24" that included the 500 GB drive and 8800 GS Nividia graphics card. When I got my e-mail back from apple confirming the order they interpreted that as a custom build despite my not modifying the order one bit from what is offered on the website. The apple rep stated that it was a custom build because of the 8800 graphics card. This seems deceiving to me as I did not order custom yet they determine it is so I could be stuck with it as custom configurations cannot be returned. The rep said he would make a note for a one time return exception. If I wind up with a screen gradient problem I am going to go with a Pro or a mini and return the whole thing. I went to Best Buy to look at a demo and changed the desktop background to white. The yellow bands present were horrible and way worse than my G5 20 inch i-Mac.
basically it affects any type of graphics work.. and my point was there are an array of jobs that would potentially have to do some graphics work at some point or another.. obviously some more critically than others.. then there is the many many people that would use their mac for personal photo editting and whatnot.. its not mission critical to alot of people but its also not something that should be dismissed as insignificant to the general public imo
czachorski
macrumors 6502a
You are giving to much credence to these forums, and not enough to the forum bias that exists on the web, whereby people flock to board like these to complain, and far, far fewer proportionally who are happy do the same. You will probably not have to return the iMac. But keep us posted how it goes - you will be another interesting random sample.
czachorski
macrumors 6502a
I use my iMac for a ton of home-level photos and videos, and have never noticed an issue with screen bleed. Very rarely am I editing a dark photo in full screen mode in a dark room (which is more or less the conditions being described to see the bleeding). I think it is important to note the impracticality of these situations, before labeling a great machine like the 24" iMac as somehow being fundamentally flawed for activities like "programming" or "web design" or "personal photo editing".
Ive been reading many comments about the iMac screen problems, and a stock answer seem's to be , Oh well don't forget its only people who complain , who post and really the number of people who are happy with their iMac , don't post , well as some one who has been following this screen problem , and some one who has been not only looking at English language Apple help forums, but many forums from all over the world . I can tell you that the screen problems are being reported on an hourly basis World Wide. so if you add up all the '' complainers '' World wide , them its not a number to be written off so lightly.
czachorski
macrumors 6502a
I don't doubt that there a lot of people complaining world wide. But I doubt that those complaints represent the majority. There is a difference between writing them off entirely, and objecting to a claim that you are more likely to get a bad one than not.
forum posts are not a representative sample...
Your probably right and that is why I ordered a 24 inch 3.06 knowing too much. My guess is there are probably three major categories of Mac owners. Those who do not notice and do not know what to look for or care being the largest, those that notice something and accept it as normal, those that know and complain, and those that know or do not know that have a screen closer to perfect. Bottom line is Mac OSX and the apple form factor are hard to beat. I bet I couldn't get $500 for a 3 year old Dell like I can for an iMac from a reseller for my G5 iMac, That being said the new iMacs will be worth something several years from now and most important satisfy in the mean time. If the screen is bad there is always the pro and putting out $500 more for a monitor or hopefully soon a decent mini. I have to admit though that the 24 inch I saw at Best Buy was horrible and the screens of all the other pcs looked good (as did the ACD).
Your probably right and that is why I ordered a 24 inch 3.06 knowing too much. My guess is there are probably three major categories of Mac owners. Those who do not notice and do not know what to look for or care being the largest, those that notice something and accept it as normal, those that know and complain, and those that know or do not know that have a screen closer to perfect. Bottom line is Mac OSX and the apple form factor are hard to beat. I bet I couldn't get $500 for a 3 year old Dell like I can for an iMac from a reseller for my G5 iMac, That being said the new iMacs will be worth something several years from now and most important satisfy in the mean time. If the screen is bad there is always the pro and putting out $500 more for a monitor or hopefully soon a decent mini. I have to admit though that the 24 inch I saw at Best Buy was horrible and the screens of all the other pcs looked good (as did the ACD).