New Apple Mouse and Keyboard... Soon

[Freg3000]

Re: Keyboard Changes?

Originally posted by Dave Marsh
Unless Apple is just changing the look of the keyboard, perhaps it's adding some speciality buttons to support its iApps?

If Apple does this, they better do it right. I hate PC keyboard like, "push this buttom to get your email!" or "push this button to go search the web!" If anyone can do it, it's Apple-but for now I am happy with the Pro Keyboard.

However, I am not pleased with the mouse. I hate Microsoft, but I love their mice. I am buying this mouse as soon as I can:

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouse/wiebt_info.asp

 

[Xcyridus]

We'll stay 1 button

The previous post was right. Apple isn't going to say "Oh, yea PC world. You were right about the 2 button mouse thing all along."

Won't happen. Besides, Apple is right. One button IS better IMHO.

I think this will be one of the two:

A. Apple is going to release wireless mice
B. Apple is just going to improve the design (Thinner, more comfortable, waterproof, lavaproof, ect.)
C. Apple will do both

p.s. I am joking about lavaproof.

 

[mkaake]

umm, yeah.

i got bored reading the values of one button mice versus two, especially since it costs what? - 20 bucks to pick up a two button optical scroll mouse?

the real reason i wrote this post was to let arcady know that i'm always in need of good one button adb apple mice. you know how much those things cost? so hey, if they're that much of a burn in your living space, please, feel free to send them along...


seriously here folks... macs have had single button mice since the getgo. apple has always pushed user friendlyness. for power users, yeah, two buttons and a scroll wheel can be really nice. and when we get that urge, you plop down the money, bend over, and buy the mouse you want. it's like someone buying a sony viao with a ball mouse (they still do make them) and complaining that they aren't optical. and as far as user friendlyness goes, i'm sorry, but one button still reigns as king.

it's easy to forget that when you've been using macs since the mac plus, and have also been using windows for just as long. you get used to what you have.

my grandma? she uses windows xp. half the time she clicks the wrong button. annoys the crap out of her, cause she doesn't think she's done anything wrong. for goodness sakes. i sent her an email with links to copy and paste into a browser instead of just clicking, and she couldn't figure it out. i even included detailed instructions (which did involve, by the way, a right click).

apple apeals to new users because it's easy to use and understand. things just make sense. and they work. i honestly can't understand why some people make such a big stink, as if not having a factory two button mouse to go with your mac is reason to go buy a dell...

matt

 

[MasterX (OSiX)]

Re: umm, yeah.

Originally posted by mkaake
apple apeals to new users because it's easy to use and understand. things just make sense. and they work. i honestly can't understand why some people make such a big stink, as if not having a factory two button mouse to go with your mac is reason to go buy a dell...

matt

That would be a pot smoking figure head, or PCs starting at $649. I can't imagine how hard it is to take home a mac for $1499 that's supposidly slower than a $649 Dell. This is one reason why MacAddicts are so excited now, the 970 will be in the ~2ghz realm when gen 1 PC 64-bit desktop CPUs are out. I guess this is a time for change in the industry, concerning Apple especially. For once at the store you'll see this:
$649 2.2ghz P4
$999 2.6ghz P4
$1399 3.06ghz p4
$1899 3.25ghz p4
$2199 1.2ghz AMD 64-bit
$1899 1.6ghz PowerMac 970
😎

 

[boobers]

nope sorry

Originally posted by redAPPLE
i would place a "ctrl" button where the thumb sits. so there is your "ctrl + click".

Don't forget about the lefties.

 

[mkaake]

Originally posted by carletonmusic
Regardless of whether you vote for a two-button mouse or defend Apple to the grave for being innovative by sticking to one, a new concept needs to come out.
The vast majority of PC users know and appreciate the two button concept. It does increase overall speed instead of apple-I or whatever. The best button feature on a mouse has been the side thumb buttons on the Microsoft intellimouse Opticals. When surfing the web, you can go "Back" and "Forward" without taking your hand off the mouse or moving the cursor up to the top menu. Seems silly, but it is sooooo nice. I can't seem to get that mouse to work with my PB at the moment...

yeah - they're great until you go to play counter strike (or whatever game you prefer) on it and keep dying because you hold the mouse in such a way that your thumb is always hitting that button and screwing up your timing. here's an example from friday, when i was playing cs on a friend's laptop with a 4 button w/scrollwheel

<sees enemy> <laughs to self> <goes to pull trigger> <oh dang, hit that freakin side button> <oh crap, still need to pull trigger> <oh crap, i think i'm dead>
<silence> (followed by my repeated askings to see if anyone had ANY other mouse around)

 

[scem0]

Re: why 1 button is vital

Originally posted by Blackcat
I've got no problem with people using multi-button mice if they want. I do have a problem with them ranting about why I should though.

I'm disabled. I can not use 2 buttons.

By supporting multiple buttons but only shipping 1 button mice, Apple is ensuring developers always code for the lowest common denominator.

If they started shipping 2 button mice pretty soon the OS and apps would need 2 buttons. Me, and thousands (or more accurately millions) then have to struggle with technology that is supposed to make life easier.

It's all very well you lot demanding Apple bundle 2 button mice, but don't forget not everybody sees it as a good thing.

No offense, but if apple designs their products to appeal to 1%
of the population, then they are in big trouble.

 

[Vlade]

Originally posted by paulwhannel
i said that apple wasn't prepared to say that. i wasn't attributing opinion to it-- it's a pretty safe bet that this is part of why apple hasn't made a two-button.

Personally, if they got the design right, i don't think it would be bad to sell as an option. hell, i'd probably buy one before long. but i stand by the idea that new computer users appreciate the simplicity. Ever try to teach someone 60+ or under 8 how to use multiple buttons? I've seen senior citizens that couldn't manage a one-button mouse very well, the whole concept of pointing at things with it was foreign to them, and then they'd be too busy trying to hold the mouse still to worry about which finger to use... You seem to forget a big section of users-- those still completely computer illiterate. Macs have always been the computer of choice for people like this, and a one-button mouse is part of that.

IMHO 🙂

pnw

By you i ment Apple, not you the macrumors user, sorry.


I think that instead of having 95% of users buy a 2 button mouse, 5% of the people should buy a 1 button mouse. People will get used to 2 button mice eventually. Or apple could have a BTO option for both mice.

 

[MetallicPenguin]

Why don't they jsut keep it the way it is, I'm using a 2 button mouse right now, but I very much like the one button mouse, but then again who really cares, if you do care then go get a 2 button mouse.I know apple will not get a 2 button mouse for some tiime, and if they do, It'll be an option when you buy your mac.

 

[boobers]

Re: We'll stay 1 button

Originally posted by Xcyridus

B. Apple is just going to improve the design (Thinner, more comfortable, waterproof, lavaproof, ect.)
p.s. I am joking about lavaproof.

I hope your joking about thinner too..smaller mice cramp my hand..these things aren't cellphones, you gotta have a comfortable grip.

 

[mkaake]

Re: Re: why 1 button is vital

Originally posted by scem0
No offense, but if apple designs their products to appeal to 1%
of the population, then they are in big trouble.

good golly, i found that offensive. and even if it weren't for his reasoning for wanting a one button mouse, he had a really good freakin point about the lowest common denominator. that doesn't just mean physical dissabilities, it also means those who aren't power users. and i know you don't have to be a 'power user' to use two buttons. but the fact is that there are people who get truly confused by more than one button. so until such time that they become okay with that, they are the lowest common denominator.

matt

 

[mkaake]

i'd just like to restate my thoughts after my last -

i like two button mice.

but if apple wants to sell one button mice, go apple. if i want a two button mouse i'll pay for it.

matt

 

[MacEyeDoc]

I've used Mac's for many years, and never needed anything but the single button until the internet arrived. Scrolling web sites is a chore with a single button mouse. Although I normally avoid anything from the Dark Side (aka Borg Collective, Micro$haft and Winblows), I tried out the Trackball Explorer, and found it works quite well. It has a medium size trackball, a separate scroll wheel and 5 buttons. You never have to move the device around on your desk, and with the Intellimouse software you can program it to let the trackball scroll up or down for you with just a touch in one direction or the other. I prefer it to a regular mouse now. Anyone else used this Trackball ?

Still, I agree with previous posts - I don't think it's Apple's job to supply each of us with our favorite kind of mouse, and for new users, simpler is almost always better.🙂

 

[MorganX]

Originally posted by paulwhannel
the one-button mouse is a huge thing for apple-- always has been-- it just says "see, sit down, calm down, things are simple over here". Apple has always (successfully IMHO) argued that a one-button mouse is superior because it's less the user has to deal with physically.

I personally think this whole argument is silly. Even dumb users aren't that dumb. there are more novices using two-buttons on cheap PCs than there are Mac users period.

Apple needs to get over it and move forward, but Steve Jobs' has mental problems.

 

[cubist]

So... shall we speculate about what IS new about the new mouse and keyboard?

Here's my guess: They went away from black, they went away from white, now they're going to silver (brushed aluminum look).

 

[shadowfax]

Re: So... shall we speculate about what IS new about the new mouse and keyboard?

Originally posted by cubist
Here's my guess: They went away from black, they went away from white, now they're going to silver (brushed aluminum look).

ehehehehe, a .5 lb aluminum mouse. that would be crazy.

 

[Head Wound]

Re: Re: Huh?

Originally posted by yzedf
Apple... Logitech... I think you are confused. We are talking of the "Pro" Keyboard and Mouse 🙄

Not at all. There is an Apple branded mouse that comes with every mac, but if you visit the Apple Store at apple.com, or even any Apple retail store, frankly ANY PLACE where you can purchase a mac, a variety of multi-button mouses ARE available to ad to your purchase, as they have been for years.

This entire debate is moot! The only argument that has any basis in reality is wether or not Apple should save some money by giving you the option to not include the Apple branded mouse.

Hell, someone already posted that Logitech actually makes the pro mice for Apple, and I wouldn't be suprised if that is true.

 

[jeffberg]

Sry, Didn't read all 98 posts, too lazy, but I do have a comment.

Most power users would complain that one button isn't enough. There are too many contextual menus. If you think about it though, the one button mouse is a god send. It makes people make the UI more intuitive because most people only have one button. Then us pro users get two buttons, we have the best of both worlds, simple interfaces and fast contextual menu access. I truly think one of the reasons Windows is so hard and so unintuitive is because programmers know that you will have 2 buttons. Knowing this, they make you use them. This is not the case in OSX until you get to Photoshop and other super pro apps like that.


Just my 2 cents, we may not like them, but they do help us.

 

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by jeffberg
Sry, Didn't read all 98 posts, too lazy, but I do have a comment.

Most power users would complain that one button isn't enough. There are too many contextual menus. If you think about it though, the one button mouse is a god send. It makes people make the UI more intuitive because most people only have one button. Then us pro users get two buttons, we have the best of both worlds, simple interfaces and fast contextual menu access. I truly think one of the reasons Windows is so hard and so unintuitive is because programmers know that you will have 2 buttons. Knowing this, they make you use them. This is not the case in OSX until you get to Photoshop and other super pro apps like that.


Just my 2 cents, we may not like them, but they do help us.

I would contend that the windows interface isn't really complicated either, till you get to pro apps like photoshop. Word for windows is just as simple as Word v.X. AIM is about as simple as iChat, and much more feature rich.

 

[BaghdadBob]

Danger Wil Robinson! Danger!

Originally posted by jeffberg
Sry, Didn't read all 98 posts, too lazy, but I do have a comment.

Most power users would complain that one button isn't enough. There are too many contextual menus. If you think about it though, the one button mouse is a god send. It makes people make the UI more intuitive because most people only have one button. Then us pro users get two buttons, we have the best of both worlds, simple interfaces and fast contextual menu access. I truly think one of the reasons Windows is so hard and so unintuitive is because programmers know that you will have 2 buttons. Knowing this, they make you use them. This is not the case in OSX until you get to Photoshop and other super pro apps like that.


Just my 2 cents, we may not like them, but they do help us.

I would like everyone to remember that the problem with unintuitive interfaces thanks to the two-button mouse has only begun to go away recently. Also, iChat seems to be pretty much an AOL product anyway.

And, finally, for all you people who are commenting on the stupidity of people who are holding you back personally by having a harder time with a two-button mouse than a one button mouse...

GET OVER IT!!!

I have, personally, not just by imagination, but in reality, tutored total newbies at computer usage. Two button mice ARE A PROBLEM FOR THEM! Quit pretending it's not! IT IS! You might as well theorize that OS X has a snappier interface than XP because you read something about Quartz Extreme!

Don't talk unless you have the personal experience to go along with it!

If you have had different experiences teaching people who have NO computer experience than GOOD FOR YOU! That's not always the case! In fact it quite often isn't! SO GET OVER IT!!!!!

You sound like a bunch of college computer room nerds snickering at the ignorance of the masses. If people like that ruled the computer industry we would still be using text interfaces. "Why should I have to click on a picture and use a menu to do what I want when I can just type the command at 80 WPM? People are so stupid."

*pant pant pant pant*

I feel like freakin' Miss Piggy over here. I need to karate something... Excuse my flame, but....argggggg already.

 

[jeffberg]

Re: Danger Wil Robinson! Danger!

Originally posted by BaghdadBob
I would like everyone to remember that the problem with unintuitive interfaces thanks to the two-button mouse has only begun to go away recently. Also, iChat seems to be pretty much an AOL product anyway.

And, finally, for all you people who are commenting on the stupidity of people who are holding you back personally by having a harder time with a two-button mouse than a one button mouse...

GET OVER IT!!!

I have, personally, not just by imagination, but in reality, tutored total newbies at computer usage. Two button mice ARE A PROBLEM FOR THEM! Quit pretending it's not! IT IS! You might as well theorize that OS X has a snappier interface than XP because you read something about Quartz Extreme!

Don't talk unless you have the personal experience to go along with it!

If you have had different experiences teaching people who have NO computer experience than GOOD FOR YOU! That's not always the case! In fact it quite often isn't! SO GET OVER IT!!!!!

You sound like a bunch of college computer room nerds snickering at the ignorance of the masses. If people like that ruled the computer industry we would still be using text interfaces. "Why should I have to click on a picture and use a menu to do what I want when I can just type the command at 80 WPM? People are so stupid."

*pant pant pant pant*

I feel like freakin' Miss Piggy over here. I need to karate something... Excuse my flame, but....argggggg already.

I'm kind of confused by this post, it seems you are attacking me, even though I am supporting the one button mouse, ummm... I support one button mouses, because I have also tutored people who have lots of problems with 2 buttons, the feeling is mutual, no need to attack one another.

And about Windows being easy until you get to photoshop, you need to ****ing right click to rename something in windows ok, that is what happens when you have 2 buttons, people expect you to use them. On our macs we just hit return or even easier, click on the name, and we can rename it, no need to right click go into a contextual menu like you do in windows. This is what I am talking about with the one buttons standard, 2 buttons for people who can use them. I also wouldn't call Word for X simple. Simple apps with ingenius UI's are the iapps, except ichat, too many contextual menus. But iPhoto or iMovie, when have u ever used a contextual menu in those. Keynote is another example. These are the kind of programs I want to see, and are only made because a one button mouse is default. I think most of you people have no idea of how many "luxuries" we lose if apple all of a sudden comes out with a 2 button mouse. People that make apps for the mac will get lazy, maybe even apple would get lazy. The last thing the mac needs right now is a bunch of lazy thirdparty programmers who no longer have to think about their UI because everyone will have a 2 button mouse.

 

[yzedf]

Re: Re: Re: Huh?

Originally posted by Head Wound
Not at all. There is an Apple branded mouse that comes with every mac, but if you visit the Apple Store at apple.com, or even any Apple retail store, frankly ANY PLACE where you can purchase a mac, a variety of multi-button mouses ARE available to ad to your purchase, as they have been for years.

This entire debate is moot! The only argument that has any basis in reality is wether or not Apple should save some money by giving you the option to not include the Apple branded mouse.

Hell, someone already posted that Logitech actually makes the pro mice for Apple, and I wouldn't be suprised if that is true.

I am quite sure that Apple doesn't really make that piece of junk pro mouse. I do however, find it ludicrous that if I want to use Photoshop effectively with a brand new top of the line $3799 PowerMac that I still have to buy more hardware (ie a real mouse). That is absolutely retarded. At some point Apple is going to realize that it's not the lowest common denominator that buys their product. Their niche is with previous Mac owners, or Windows users that got fed up and wanted to switch. Either way (except for some Mac users whom only use what came with their Mac) people are familiar with, and know how to use, a simple 2 button mouse with a scroll wheel. I mean, come on now, my Amiga A1000 circa 1987 came with a two button mouse! Stop making excuses for Apple's deliberate bad choices, just for the sake of being different. Right click is better, faster, and simpler than control click. Newbies will ask "do I click both at same time?" which almost always results in normal click that was proceeded by or followed by a meaningless click of the control key. The timing has to be explained. For anyone of reasonable intelligence and finger control, right versus left is easier to grasp, and faster to use to its fullest capabilities.

And if you disagree, you are wrong. 😉

 

[BaghdadBob]

Re: Re: Danger Wil Robinson! Danger!

Originally posted by jeffberg
I'm kind of confused by this post, it seems you are attacking me, even though I am supporting the one button mouse, ummm...

Sorry, I was actually using your post as a supportive statement but didn't have time to flush out my post properly because I was being pestered.

 

[BaghdadBob]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Huh?

Originally posted by yzedf
I do however, find it ludicrous that if I want to use Photoshop effectively with a brand new top of the line $3799 PowerMac that I still have to buy more hardware (ie a real mouse). That is absolutely retarded. At some point Apple is going to realize that it's not the lowest common denominator that buys their product. Their niche is with previous Mac owners, or Windows users that got fed up and wanted to switch.

Well, I disagree. Let's not forget that Apple was at one time the most poplular brand for education. Also, people who hate/don't have time to *** with computers but can afford a Mac. They like them too.

Plus, I think a POWER USER can be expected to buy the mouse of their liking. Especially because different professionals have different needs. To some, a two-button mouse (even with a scroll wheel) is almost as useless as a one-button mouse.

All the people who have said "Ah just don't know what ah would do with'aut mah fahv button mouse" wouldn't give a good goddamn if they got a two-button mouse with their mac, they'd STILL have to buy a new one. So who are you pleasing then?

Plus, please don't forget the UI issue. This cannot be stressed enough. Developers will start getting lazy if they can depend on a two-or-better button mouse, and that lowest-common-denomenator, who the mac DOES appeal to, will be left with one less friendly interface. There really is a tremendous amount of evidence to this regard.

I'm right, you're all wrong, even those of you who agree with me, just don't bother to post, this is my personal soapbox anyway 😛

 

[Sedulous]

I'm curious why all the pro-multi button mice people find it so hard to use key commands? What are you doing with your other hand?

But seriously, the keyboard commands offer way more options than you could ever fit on a mouse.