New Apple Stores and Closings

[bousozoku]

The store does carry everything 'Apple' but not much in the way of accessories or software. I guess I was expecting something a little bigger with larger (more hardware) displays/demo areas for the different products. It seems a bit tight and it's not even one of those new "mini" stores. That said, I have not actually visited any other Apple store so my expectations might very well have been unrealistic since they were based on photos from other store openings. Heck, maybe I'm just complaining about feeling crowded in there

I also live in Oviedo so I would definitely not complain about a mini store at the Ovideo Marketplace

Oviedo Marketplace could use some decent store to draw people. The 20+ screen cinema barely drags people there. Perhaps, they could empty Dillards department store and put a real Apple store in place of that...

The store at Millenia is way too small in contrast to the store at International Plaza in Tampa.

 

[Silencio]

Let's look at the big picture

Apple's move to take over more of its own retail sales is driven by one factor: Dell. Dell doesn't have to worry about stepping on their wholesalers' or retailers' toes, because they don't have any middlemen at all. That gives them a tremendous advantage in letting them underprice their competition while still protecting their margins. Like it or not, they set the pace and Apple was smart to follow suit in its own way.

Even before Dell became an 800-pound gorilla, I have had very mixed experiences with third party Apple resellers. MACadam was by far the worst computer store I've ever been to. To be subjected to such a filthy and chaotic retail environment, to be treated with such disdain by half-witted employees, and to be overcharged across the board... it boggles my mind that they stayed in business as long as they did.

OTOH, the old ComputerWare chain was pretty good and reliable.

 

[Twinkie]

I don't think a lot of people are taking in to consideration areas that don't have Mac-centric stores to begin with.

Case in point: I live in southeast Michigan. Before the Apple Store at Twelve Oaks (which was one of the top-selling stores for a while) opened, the only obvious place to even look at a Mac was CompUSA. I can't speak for other areas, but I can tell you that the Mac sections in this area are... "unloved".

Even now, the only stores I'm aware of that sell Mac-related items are CompUSA and MicroCenter. And it's worth mentioning that I work in Ann Arbor -- allegedly a hotbed of Apple users -- and I'm not aware of any Mom & Pop type of store that caters to the Mac community. Sure, the book stores may sell Adobe CS, but that's really about it.

So for someone like me, I never would have bought a Mac, had it not been for the Apple Store. It's one thing to read about a computer... but it's something completely different to use one in a setting like the Apple Store, where software you'd want to use (Office, Photoshop, etc.) is installed on the demo systems, and you're not hounded by salespeople.

I don't think it's entirely logical for Apple to say "Okay, there's not much competition near our Twelve Oaks store, so items there will be sent for 15% below MSRP and as quickly as possible... but there's some competition around the Michigan Avenue store, so they'll get 5% below MSRP and we'll send them the same amount of products that Crazy Bob's Mac Palace gets."

 

[bousozoku]

...
Even before Dell became an 800-pound gorilla, I have had very mixed experiences with third party Apple resellers. MACadam was by far the worst computer store I've ever been to. To be subjected to such a filthy and chaotic retail environment, to be treated with such disdain by half-witted employees, and to be overcharged across the board... it boggles my mind that they stayed in business as long as they did.
...

I've been around plenty of those kinds of stores from the early days of micro computers in the late 1970s to mid-1980s. Arrogant staff and poor conditions lead me to drive further and to also start doing mail order.

I used to deal with The Home Computer Store for Atari equipment in Philly when I lived there. They were such nice people. Things were disorganised at times and things were sold at retail most times, but they were worth it. They enjoyed the computers and never had time to be arrogant.

Of course, they talked with Apple and Apple was arrogant and didn't want to be bothered, which is not surprising for 1990.

 

[Bonte]

I used to work for a rather small, local Apple Centre in Belgium, between 1991 and 1997, until I started my own company. I sold the Apple gear, gave support to our customers, and went to our customer's homes and companies to install their newly bought computers and networks.
I can tell you that even back then the profit-margins were under 5%, actually bottom line no profit was made from selling computers (you couldn't even pay the staff from it). The profits came from repairs, support, periferals and software. So basically our store just sold the computers, and hoped the customers would come back for other things. In this manner the shop survived for almost 20 years (they started in the days of Apple II). Recently, when the Apple Store begun having success, they just quit. People go to the Apple store now for periferals and software, and repairs are handled directly by Apple. Having an Apple shop nowadays, is in my opinion just plain suicide.

Profit-margins were never great, not with Apple and not with any other PC vendor unless ya assemble them personally. You indeed need to make profit on periferals and software. My experience (!) is that most stores were/are Mac and PC (i just hate that) and are business orientated, making them very expensive for support and compatible PC extra's like printers and stuff. At best they do extra's for pro photo and video clients but also at a high price. Nothing for the home user, no starter clubs, no lan party's, no fairs, ... Now not even a store in the wide neighborhood at the moment. I saw some great small stores in Amsterdam so don't tell me its impossible to do.

 

[zelmo]

It's great that Apple continues to open new stores, although reaching into new markets should be a priority, rather than hitting the areas that already have a store or two.

As for the resellers: It's a shame for them that they have to close. The resellers were pretty much the only place people could go and see Macs and peripherals back in the day before Apple opened their own retail outlets. A lot of these folks chose to sell and support Apple because of their admiration for the product and their desire to evangelize it. To see that love and loyalty get trod on is just plain sad. But times change.
Now Apple is selling their product direct in the retail space, and pushing hard to grow mindshare and market share. They are naturally going to offer pricing that is as good as what resellers can offer, just to be competitive with them.
Great resellers will survive because, when the pricing is pretty much the same, service is what brings people back to buy again. Some resellers were probably only surviving because we consumers had no place else to go, just catalogs and online. Now that there are options, it's time to prove they deserve to be there.
To those resellers and their employees who have shut down for whatever reason and are now in the job market, why not put in an application at your local Apple Store? If you are as good as you think you are, they could probably use you.

 

[scat999999]

Apple, we need a Nashville store come on!

One is coming to the Green Hills Mall in the fall. I saw it in the paper and it was confirmed by the info desk at the mall. It will be inside the mall.

 

[schatten]

Really? It's well-known, is it? And where do we get that information? From unbiased sources or from resellers themselves? Hmmm...

Apple isn't in the business of giving resellers price breaks or making life easy for them. Anyone going into that line of work with that belief is in for a big surprise. Resellers must make their business worthwhile to customers by offering excellent service and a shopping experience that makes people ignore any supposed disadvantages. Services ranks very high on the list of customer expectations. What has driven me away from most Apple resellers is not prices or inventory shortcomings, but inattentive service and a sense that the people at a given business just don't give a rip about what I'm there for.

Yes, there are exceptions, but a majority of what I've dealt with tells me that this is typical amongst Apple resellers. If Apple can do a better job and they are putting resellers out of business because of it, then I have no sympathy. If the need wasn't there, Apple wouldn't be rushing in to fill it.

I used to work for an Apple reseller who did an exceedingly good job of selling and servicing Apple products. I was the service technician specializing in Apple support & repair. I was very good at my job & very efficient. Apple rates all their resellers' techniciains on a percentage scale, which directly effects how much we'd get paid. I consistantly exceeded Apple's own service standards & brought in large revenue from Apple for warranty repairs.

That is, until the local Apple Store opened. After that, replacement parts would often come in late (Apple used to ship next-day, it turned into 4 or 5 day turnaround) and Apple generally became less supportive of my own customers (they would direct customers away from me & the store I worked (where they bought the Mac in the first place) to their new Apple Store. Apple forbade us as a reseller from backstocking replacement parts for warranty repairs, but their own retail stores have a large backstock of parts. Thus they can do a repair in hours which would take me days, waiting for them to deliver the parts.

As far as retail goes, Apple consistantly delayed shipments of product to the reseller when their store (but a few miles away) would have plenty of the latest goods.

Apple undercuts their resellers. It's proven. It's bad business. It will bite them in the arse in a few years. I guarentee it.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

Think Enterprise Hardware in that store. And since Apple will be having a booth at this April's FOSE Conference it won't surprise me if they design this store to target the Federal Government's needs.

Hmmmm... the Washington, DC metro area already has stores in Tyson's Corner (the first Apple Store), Clarendon, Montgomery Mall, and Bethesda (mini store)...

Do we really need this new one in Arlington (Pentagon City)?

Don't get me wrong -- I'm all for expansion (and Tysons always has a lot of customers when I stop by), but adding a new store in a market with four already when so many places have none at all? Odd.

I know tons of Mac-interested people in the Roanoke, VA area who can't justify going all the way to DC or Richmond to experience/buy Apple products, and nobody else in the area carries them. Those are the kinds of places Apple should go now, since the major markets are largely covered.

 

[vaal]

Minutes to Pentagon ?

Maybe if you walk. Pentagon City Mall is about 200 YARDS from the Pentagon. Now if they could open a store in the mall that exists underneath the Pentagon...

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Maybe if you walk. Pentagon City Mall is about 200 YARDS from the Pentagon. Now if they could open a store in the mall that exists underneath the Pentagon...

Too limiting in the post 9-11 security world. Now one of their Apple mini stores that could feed off the Pentagon City Mall location would be nice.

 

[wdlove]

Too limiting in the post 9-11 security world. Now one of their Apple mini stores that could feed off the Pentagon City Mall location would be nice.

I like that, Pentagon Apple Store. Apple enters into the security arena.

 

[Gasu E.]

UR My Density

The old 80/20 rule. I head up sales for a national company and 80% of our business come from 20% of the states. NY, FL, CA, TX and IL are where most of the money is. Sorry if people don't want to hear that but that's where a national seller is going to focus.

Seems kind of simplistic. If I were placing an Apple-store type retail outlet, I would be looking primarily at population density, and secondarily at income density. The five states with the highest population densities are NJ, RI, MA, CT, and MD (NY is next). CA is 11th and TX far down the list. Of course, metropolitan clusters are more important than states. The cities with the highest density are NYC, SF, CHI, BOS, Newark (oh, well), PHI, DC, BAL and LA.

 

[dnnx]

frikin whiners,

I know of several independent Apple resellers across the country that are actually expanding or have recently expanded. The key: good customer service. They even are relative close to Apple stores. Stuff gets backordered, even the apple store has to wait. But everyone gets their stuff.

 

[Sayhey]

Seems kind of simplistic. If I were placing an Apple-store type retail outlet, I would be looking primarily at population density, and secondarily at income density. The five states with the highest population densities are NJ, RI, MA, CT, and MD (NY is next). CA is 11th and TX far down the list. Of course, metropolitan clusters are more important than states. The cities with the highest density are NYC, SF, CHI, BOS, Newark (oh, well), PHI, DC, BAL and LA.

Apple is doing just what you are writing about. Of the 102 current stores and 22 planned stores confirmed by job listings, we can see this pattern.

Of the top 50 consolidated metro areas (CMSA) and metro areas (MSA) in the US (not counting Puerto Rico) 44 have at least one store or one planned. This roughly corresponds to metro areas with over one million people.​

Of those CMSAs and MSAs that have a population of over 2 million people, Apple has at least two stores currently operating or planned in 20 out of 22. Only Cleveland and Pittsburgh have only one store.​

In the nine CMSAs with over 5 million people, six have at least 5 stores or will have with current plans. Philadelphia, Detroit, and Dallas are currently the exceptions.​

In short, Apple is putting its stores where the people are. Not much of a surprise here, but it is disconcerting to those who live in the Dakotas and Wyoming.

 

[applebum]

Just one in SC. That's all I'm asking. Or maybe one in Augusta GA?! What does Apple have against us?! There are 2 in NC and 2 in GA? We said we were sorry for that whole Civil War thing! C'mon man, don't hold a grudge!

Hey Centris - I hear you - I live in Augusta. Bring one on. Unfortunately, I don't think there are enough Mac users here to justify a store in Augusta. But why not Columbia, SC - it is the capital for crying out loud. I have to go to Charlotte or Atlanta to see those pretty new products.

 

[Sayhey]

Hey Centris - I hear you - I live in Augusta. Bring one on. Unfortunately, I don't think there are enough Mac users here to justify a store in Augusta. But why not Columbia, SC - it is the capital for crying out loud. I have to go to Charlotte or Atlanta to see those pretty new products.

South Carolina has no metro areas with over a million people, so it hasn't been high on Apple's list. However, there is one metro area in the state that has almost a million people in it - the Greenville/Spartanburg/Anderson area. In fact there are five metro areas in the US that are smaller and have Apple stores - Honolulu, Albany, Tucson, Syracuse, and Des Moines. So there is hope. Only Des Moines is smaller than the Columbia and Charleston metro areas, but there are obviously other factors than just population that Apple takes into account. It looks like SC should be getting a store soon.

 

[vitaboy]

The former Apple sellers people mentioned not being able to sell 100 Macs a year, and couldn't get discounts because of this: excuse me, but what business could survive that doesn't sell 100 of something all year long? This sounds like a hobby club instead of a business.

I totally agree. 100 Macs a year is only 8 or 9 a month. If you as as retail store can't sell that many, then you don't deserve to be in retail.

The problem with these stores (in my opinion) is that they are run by geeks with little imagination. The poster who pointed out independent retail stores are dark, dank, cluttered, and overpriced was exactly right. Seeing the bright and spacious Apple Store, what did the independent retailers do to respond? Continue to operate their stores like a hobby club instead of remodeling and making the stores a welcoming experience.

People go to the Apple Stores for a reason, and guess what, it's not because of price. People go because when you walk into an Apple Store, you can jump on any machine to check your email and no one bothers you. People go because you have free walk-in tech support, where sales staff will spend the time to answer your questions (for the most part). People visit the Apple Stores because the place is clean, uncluttered, bright, and welcome.

The independent retailers were unwilling to make the changes necessary to move from the bottom-line, hobby shop to being a welcome, refreshing retail experience. There are probably a lot of things independent retailers could have done (and still do) to serve a profitable, niche market. Like Xserve consulting for small local businesses, where they can go in and set-up an Xserve to replace an existing PC server and provide on-going consulting. Or catering to high-end market by setting up Macs to work specifically with high-end digital cameras and camcorders. But that sounds like adapting and making big changes, which the independent retailers don't want to do because - surprise, surprise - they don't want to "waste" money making these changes. Serving the customer better than the Apple Store? Hardly.

 

[letskeepitstr8]

interesting which one?

Strange. I hear these complaints about Apple not shipping products to resellers in a timely manner, but our local Apple reseller always has plenty of inventory on the shelves. You're sure there's not more to this? Sounds to me that some of these resellers might not be forthcoming in all the details.

Please enlighten the rest of us. What is the name of the dealer that always has plenty of inventory and in what state.?
Gratefull for the info.

 

[letskeepitstr8]

Did you know?

I totally agree. 100 Macs a year is only 8 or 9 a month. If you as as retail store can't sell that many, then you don't deserve to be in retail.

Did you know that Apple forbid dealers from selling the educational market? Schools, Colleges and Universities. Did you know that often Apple sell to the end users at dealer cost? Making you believe the dealer is overpriced. Those dealers had 100% market share over the years. Then Apple decided to forbid them from selling a major market( Educational) . . Then Apple decided to delay service parts shipment to the dealers and often send defective parts to the dealers which delay repairs. Apple also does not reimburse the dealer for a lot of the work that the dealer do in the warranty area. ... This turns intentionaly the good experience at an Apple dealer to a bad one.
Did you know that Apple gross margins to the dealers is about 8%.?
Did you know that when a dealer sell an iBook for $1,000 and I decide to charge it on a credit card the dealer is left with less then $55.00 gross profit? That is about a tip for a $300 dinner we leave to a waiter. That is 15 to 18% to a waiter that does not have the overfhead that the dealer has.
Apple is purposely making it a bad experience at the dealership to get the reaction you have.
Apple refuse to invest in the dealer channel and is making sure that the channel disappear in time.
I give a lot of credit to the dealers that have survived despite of Apple. Try walking in the above shoes.
Did you know the above?

 

[Sayhey]

Can someone please explain to me how these shrinking profit margins and supply difficulties are different for Apple resellers than for PC resellers?

Are the supply difficulties relegated to only small resellers or is it to all non-Apple owned stores? I sure don't see a problem with stock at CompUSA or Fry's. If it is a preferential supply to large distributors is there something illegal about that?

Folks, I don't want the "mom and pop" reseller to go out of business, but if it is between that and the continued problems of selling through channels that haven't a clue about how to sell - then bye bye mom & pop.

If Apple is doing something illegal in their relations with resellers, then they should be forced to stop. However, most of what I see is complaints about not have the retail space to themselves and not being able (or willing) to fight aggressively for more of the market. There's a whole lot of PC users out there waiting to be given a reason to buy Apple products. Stop complaining and go get 'em guys!

 

[Fender]

Toronto Store Hiring

Not sure how many people are aware, but they are hiring for the Apple Store in Toronto:

http://www.apple.com/ca/retail/jobs/

 

[SwooshOU]

Finally, an Apple Store in Oklahoma City... 5 minutes from my apartment, too! Yesssssssssss....

Of the five malls in the OKC metro, Penn Square Mall is the best choice for Apple. It's the most upscale of them all and just a great fit. I wonder where it will be located in the mall... There's an empty space at the center court.

 

[Sayhey]

New LA store

Apple's website now has a listing for the Beverly Center in Los Angeles. This makes it the 23th confirmed location for future openings this year.

 

[Doctor Q]

Apple's website now has a listing for the Beverly Center in Los Angeles. This makes it the 23th confirmed location for future openings this year.

I don't see any mention of Apple at the Beverly Center site nor any mention of Beverly Center at apple.com. Do you?

Perhaps you mean Century City, in Los Angeles, where Apple has job listings (job requisition numbers 2143361, 2285554, 2143359, and 2143360)?