New Apple Stores and Closings

[letskeepitstr8]

However, most of what I see is complaints about not have the retail space to themselves and not being able (or willing) to fight aggressively for more of the market. There's a whole lot of PC users out there waiting to be given a reason to buy Apple products. Stop complaining and go get 'em guys!

Everytime the dealers attempt to get these customers Apple entice these customers not to buy from the dealer by offering lower prices. Many sales are lost to Apple direct after the dealer got the ball rolling in the ares that you mentioned. The most expensive part of the sale is to find the customer. The dealers find these customers, sell them and then Apple make sure to get all the repeat orders by offering lower prices.

 

[letskeepitstr8]

My point, wrapped up in my original question, is that resellers of computers, Apple or PCs, are being squeezed. In large part that is because of the falling profit margins as prices for computers come down. I hate to think how many $300 dollar PCs a reseller must sell to make any money at all. In that kind of market do we assume Apple must compete and maintain high levels of profits for its reseller? Or do we assume that the resellers must find a way to sell more macs in order to maintain their profits? I get the impression from your comments that the resellers did Apple a big favor by making money selling Apples products when margins were high, and now they are owed the same high margins even when those margins are shrinking throughout the industry. I'd like to see a contract with Apple that guarantees that. Unfortunately, capitalism doesn't work that way.

I agree with you but they are owed the courtesy of receiving products that they order forgetting the margins. They do not get products that are ordered within minutes of introduction. Let them eat cake you say. How if they don't have the ingreedient to make bread because Apple make sure they don't.

 

[Sayhey]

Can someone please explain to me how these shrinking profit margins and supply difficulties are different for Apple resellers than for PC resellers?

Are the supply difficulties relegated to only small resellers or is it to all non-Apple owned stores? I sure don't see a problem with stock at CompUSA or Fry's. If it is a preferential supply to large distributors is there something illegal about that?

Folks, I don't want the "mom and pop" reseller to go out of business, but if it is between that and the continued problems of selling through channels that haven't a clue about how to sell - then bye bye mom & pop. ]

You seem to have missed the point. Why would they complain of receiving no products if you can't sell it? It should be obvious that those resellers are loosing their customer base to the store that have products. It tells me that they have a customer base that is not being served because of lack of products. Not giving products to them continue to erode their sales and shift the buying pattern. How often would you be willing to go to a store that does not have products? Apple is making sure that your buying pattern is not to support the stores that they want out. That channel knows how to sell otherwise why would they complain that they have no product? They see their customer base stolen away by starvation of products.

I'm sorry if I was clumsy making my original point. I should have underlined the word "how." Of course, small resellers can sell Apple products in the same way they always have. The problem is that old way of sitting in a small, unappealing, worn-down shop and waiting for customers to break down your door to buy computers doesn't work anymore. At least it won't work for keeping Apple alive. Part of breaking out of the death spiral of the 90s was coming up with new and innovative products like Apple did in its early days. An equally important part of that effort to resurrect the company is not accepting how it products were being sold. Resellers are an important part of that effort, but they have to change how they do business or they are going to go under. We can lament the effect on the people we know who are working at resellers, but those are the hard facts.

 

[Sayhey]

I agree with you but they are owed the courtesy of receiving products that they order forgetting the margins. They do not get products that are ordered within minutes of introduction. Let them eat cake you say. How if they don't have the ingreedient to make bread because Apple make sure they don't.

When I asked the question about CompUSA and Fry's concerning their supply of products, it was to make a point. It looks to me like Apple's supply policy is geared toward large volume sales stores, Apple owned or otherwise, not necessarily as the grand conspiracy to drive all small resellers customers into Apple stores. Apple has made the decision to make sure they don't have huge numbers of products sitting in inventory like they did in the 90s. That, combined with giving preference to the large volume dealers, puts a great strain on smaller resellers. I certainly would like to see every dealer have all the stock they want, but I also don't have to take the risk of producing huge numbers of products that then don't move.

I never said anything close to "let them eat cake." I'd love to see small resellers do well and have a great relationship with Apple, but my number one concern in all of this is that Apple Computer survives so all of us can enjoy their products.

 

[letskeepitstr8]

I'm sorry if I was clumsy making my original point. I should have underlined the word "how." Of course, small resellers can sell Apple products in the same way they always have. The problem is that old way of sitting in a small, unappealing, worn-down shop and waiting for customers to break down your door to buy computers doesn't work anymore. At least it won't work for keeping Apple alive. Part of breaking out of the death spiral of the 90s was coming up with new and innovative products like Apple did in its early days. An equally important part of that effort to resurrect the company is not accepting how it products were being sold. Resellers are an important part of that effort, but they have to change how they do business or they are going to go under. We can lament the effect on the people we know who are working at resellers, but those are the hard facts.

Why not give them products if they have their customers? Also they are not just sitting and waiting. They have to go to training and they do. They have to advertise and they do. They have web sites but are not allowed by Apple to sell on their site. Many restrictions are put on them. They go get customers by cold canvassing and Apple get all repeat orders on price. They want to stock the product but Apple does not give them the product on purpose. You seem to think that they do not know what to do. I have talked to some very good dealers that are called Specialists. Those are the good dealers that Apple is starving. Then how and why did Apple kept them aboard all these years????? Please give these people the credit they deserve.

 

[Sayhey]

Why not give them products if they have their customers? Also they are not just sitting and waiting. They have to go to training and they do. They have to advertise and they do. They have web sites but are not allowed by Apple to sell on their site. Many restrictions are put on them. They go get customers by cold canvassing and Apple get all repeat orders on price. They want to stock the product but Apple does not give them the product on purpose. You seem to think that they do not know what to do. I have talked to some very good dealers that are called Specialists. Those are the good dealers that Apple is starving. Then how and why did Apple kept them aboard all these years????? Please give these people the credit they deserve.

Let's keep it straight, letskeepitstr8, I don't doubt there are some very, very good small resellers out there. I also, have seen too many resellers who think it is a privilege to come into their stores and have as a badge of honor have cultivated an atmosphere of disdain for anyone not already conversant in the lingo of the most ardent macheads. Do you dispute that the latter stores exist? If you want sympathy for the plight of small dealers, you have it. If you want sympathy for incompetent and arrogant small dealers, you don't. I just won't jump to salute when the idea that all of this is Steve Jobs' or Apple Computer's fault is run up the flagpole. It is far more complicated than that.

 

[letskeepitstr8]

Let's keep it straight, letskeepitstr8, I don't doubt there are some very, very good small resellers out there. I also, have seen too many resellers who think it is a privilege to come into their stores and have as a badge of honor have cultivated an atmosphere of disdain for anyone not already conversant in the lingo of the most ardent macheads. Do you dispute that the latter stores exist? If you want sympathy for the plight of small dealers, you have it. If you want sympathy for incompetent and arrogant small dealers, you don't. I just won't jump to salute when the idea that all of this is Steve Jobs' or Apple Computer's fault is run up the flagpole. It is far more complicated than that.

You have that part. Now is Steve is no better that those arrogant dealers you refer to

 

[Sayhey]

You have that part. Now is Steve is no better that those arrogant dealers you refer to

Now that is truly topic for a whole other thread!

Jobs ego is no doubt larger than most of the macrumors community put together. He is also in a very different position, where the arrogance to take on competition like Microsoft, Dell, Sony, etc comes in handy at times. If your point is that Steve is not very concerned with the problems of small resellers, then we agree. I even agree that he should be more concerned.

 

[letskeepitstr8]

Now that is truly topic for a whole other thread!

Jobs ego is no doubt larger than most of the macrumors community put together. He is also in a very different position, where the arrogance to take on competition like Microsoft, Dell, Sony, etc comes in handy at times. If your point is that Steve is not very concerned with the problems of small resellers, then we agree. I even agree that he should be more concerned.

Then we are in full agreement. the sad part is that the good dealers are all limped with the bad ones in these discussions and that is not right. We need to speak of the good ones and recognize them as they should be. The comments made by others make it sound like all small dealers are not good and all the Mom and Pop should go away. Very narrow minded.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Apple stores have sold and continue to sell at prices below suggested retail if you know how to approach them.

Care to explain that? The only breaks I have heard are EDU pricing, or "unannounced" prices reductions. For at the Tysons Apple Store they seem to work off a price list.

 

[letskeepitstr8]

Care to explain that? The only breaks I have heard are EDU pricing, or "unannounced" prices reductions. For at the Tysons Apple Store they seem to work off a price list.

Very simple. All you have to say is that you are a student, teacher or staff at any school and they give it to you. No proof of ID or otherwise. It is a joke. It happens all the time. And all we do is blame the resellers for not being able to do better. Apple is making sure that they don't survive and that the consumers don't patronize the dealers.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Very simple. All you have to say is that you are a student, teacher or staff at any school and they give it to you. No proof of ID or otherwise. It is a joke. It happens all the time. And all we do is blame the resellers for not being able to do better. Apple is making sure that they don't survive and that the consumers don't patronize the dealers.

Your Apple Store is different from the Tysons store. They require the student ID for the first purchase at least. Not for a follow-up purchase if you get a rep that remembers your first one.

Glad to hear about the reseller class action lawsuit. This abuse of discounts is one of the issues, and I for one hope that it ends, period.

 

[Sayhey]

Your Apple Store is different from the Tysons store. They require the student ID for the first purchase at least. Not for a follow-up purchase if you get a rep that remembers your first one.

It's the same in the SF stores. Also it is only on hardware; no student discounts on software. I go to campus to buy my software.

 

[letskeepitstr8]

It's the same in the SF stores. Also it is only on hardware; no student discounts on software. I go to campus to buy my software.

My point exactly. Are you a student?

 

[letskeepitstr8]

Your Apple Store is different from the Tysons store. They require the student ID for the first purchase at least. Not for a follow-up purchase if you get a rep that remembers your first one.

Glad to hear about the reseller class action lawsuit. This abuse of discounts is one of the issues, and I for one hope that it ends, period.

What class action lawsuit are you refering to?

 

[Sayhey]

My point exactly. Are you a student?

I am a student, and my point is that they ask for student id in the SF stores. Nothing underhanded or sinister in the use of the discount that I can tell.

The lawsuit is by a group of resellers, led by Tom Santos of macadam (the store feature in this thread). You can read all about their point of view here.

 

[letskeepitstr8]

I am a student, and my point is that they ask for student id in the SF stores. Nothing underhanded or sinister in the use of the discount that I can tell.

The lawsuit is by a group of resellers, led by Tom Santos of macadam (the store feature in this thread). You can read all about their point of view here.

In our area they don't ask for ID's. They just automatically give it to anyone who says he is a student or teacher. By the way what is yourmajor and what schoold do you attend?
Also I checked the site that is not a class action . That is a specific dealer fighting back not a class action. Maybe they should have one.

 

[Sayhey]

In our area they don't ask for ID's. They just automatically give it to anyone who says he is a student or teacher. By the way what is yourmajor and what schoold do you attend?
Also I checked the site that is not a class action . That is a specific dealer fighting back not a class action. Maybe they should have one.

I'd prefer to keep my personal information out of this thread. You'll have to take my word that I'm a student. The site is put up by Santos, but it is about a class action suit brought by him and other resellers. The old Computerware stores are also involved along with others.

 

[wdlove]

I'd prefer to keep my personal information out of this thread. You'll have to take my word that I'm a student. The site is put up by Santos, but it is about a class action suit brought by him and other resellers. The old Computerware stores are also involved along with others.

I don't blame you Sayhey. I consider you to be the Mac Genius when it comes to this thread topic.

Our local Apple Store and University Store always asks for a student ID.

 

[Sayhey]

I don't blame you Sayhey. I consider you to be the Mac Genius when it comes to this thread topic.

Our local Apple Store and University Store always asks for a student ID.

Thank you, wdlove. That is very nice. You are, as always, a gentleman.

 

[letskeepitstr8]

I don't blame you Sayhey. I consider you to be the Mac Genius when it comes to this thread topic.

Our local Apple Store and University Store always asks for a student ID.

Well I see that today the class action was filed. That is different from the original suit you have refered to.
see the info:
<http://www.forbes.com/personaltech/2005/02/18/cz_el_0218apple.html?partner=yahoo&referrer=>

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

What class action lawsuit are you refering to?

https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1282974#post1282974

 

[Roose]

hello, i work for a apple authorized reseller in the south west (Devon). As an example of apple having no respect for their resellers . The other week we ordered 10 wireless apple keyboards. Next day apple reduced their price by £20 and we couldnt match it becasue of the price we bought them at. We lost £200 like that!! So im sure you all understand how hard it is to keep so much stock of apples products especially when they keep changing their products. Dont get me wrong i love apple without them i wouldnt be in business. But if we didnt do pc's as well as macs we would of closed down years ago. We are in out 10th year this year and if you can find a apple reseller around our area who have been open so long ill give u a chocolate bar lol!! It is a hard business to be in and i understand why these resellers are pointing their fingers in apples direction!! Cheers Guys!

 

[posim]

not the whole story

Thats not the whole story. I've known Tom for over 12 years, and he bleeds Mac colors. He is extremely knowlegeable and goes way overboard for all his customers. The real problem is THE WAY this happened. Tom has had a very close relationship with Apple for many years. He has consulted with them about Apples technology and retail direction and was lead to beleive that a new store would not be moving so close to him because of his long term loyality, at least in the short term. I completely understand Apples retail model and agree. That said they should have made some arangement to liquidate his store and hire him to run the S.F. store. They could not find a more knowlegeable or personable guy to continue to carry the Apple banner. I agree that he is the acception and most resellers could not carry his........Mac. Thx

 

[wdlove]

hello, i work for a apple authorized reseller in the south west (Devon). As an example of apple having no respect for their resellers . The other week we ordered 10 wireless apple keyboards. Next day apple reduced their price by £20 and we couldn't match it because of the price we bought them at. We lost £200 like that!! So im sure you all understand how hard it is to keep so much stock of apples products especially when they keep changing their products. Dont get me wrong i love apple without them i wouldn't be in business. But if we didn't do pc's as well as macs we would of closed down years ago. We are in out 10th year this year and if you can find a apple reseller around our area who have been open so long ill give u a chocolate bar lol!! It is a hard business to be in and i understand why these resellers are pointing their fingers in apples direction!! Cheers Guys!

I can certainly understand your situation. Apple should do more to assist their resellers. Loyalty should count for something. Congratulations on your 10th year in business. I admire anyone that has the ability that you have demonstrated. My hope is that your will continue to be a success.

Are you the Tom that posim is referring?