New Apple TV Obsolete - No 4K

[HobeSoundDarryl]

And? If you happen to have a 4K TV then the Apple box is not what you should be purchasing. Life goes on. When 4K sets and content become more mainstream, Apple will add it.

When you are otherwise deeply entrenched in the all-Apple ecosystem, the option to buy other company offerings is generally a no go. Sure, that may solve the problem of feeding a 4KTV native 4K but then it creates a bunch of other problems like playing Apple DRM content, easy access to many things that TV otherwise does so very well, and so on.

 

[citysnaps]

When you are otherwise deeply entrenched in the all-Apple ecosystem, the option to buy other company offerings is generally a no go. Sure, that may solve the problem of feeding a 4KTV native 4K but then it creates a bunch of other problems like playing Apple DRM content, easy access to many things that TV otherwise does so very well, and so on.

What brand of 4K TV do you own and how much 4K content do you watch?

 

[JimmyHook]

Why don't you start a website called OnlyPostiiveAppleComments.com for those "most people". I've never seen an all-praise forum on any website. It seems all praise (or all bashing) would get old fast. It's the variety of opinions that make things interesting. And I don't see anyone being "hyper critical" when they share they wish a product came with ONE feature available on just about everyone else's similar product and provides a complete all-Apple solution to: iPhone shoots 4K -> iMovie edits 4K -> Quicktime stores the rendered 4K file -> iMovie indexes the 4K file -> AppleTV4 -> 4K TV.

People here wishing for it may just be wanting that complete Apple solution instead of shooting 4K on their new Apple iPhone and then having to jump through hoops and/or use some competitors hardware to get that video to their new 4K TV. That's not "being hyper critical". That's wishing they could get everything they want from Apple.

You assume there won't be a 4K software update. Maybe there are things in the works. Who knows? Yeah, 4K is something I would neither jump for joy over or be opposed to. It simply is neutral to me due to the complete wasteland of content. Yes, the iPhone shoots 4K now, but not by default. Most likely over 90 percent of video shot on new iPhones is in the default resolution (yah, I made that stat up, but it's probably true). I can't see the benefit for consumers diving into settings to turn that on just to see their space fill up quickly seeing as how the phone itself doesn't have a 4K panel and most TVs aren't 4k. So all that combined makes it neutral to me. If it's a big deal to you, ok. I get it. Everyone wants stuff. I want Picture in Picture. But I assume stuff will eventually come and for now I'm happy with my new toy.

 

[Reds622]

And? If you happen to have a 4K TV then the Apple box is not what you should be purchasing. Life goes on. When 4K sets and content become more mainstream, Apple will add it.

Except that Apple probably held back on including 4K in order to save it for a later iteration of the set top box.. So instead of being an adopter of technology that is already rather mainstream, Apple has decided to wait until the "masses" in society catch up. It's not like the technology isn't ripe yet. It's mature. But for some odd reason, probably money related along with saving a "feature" for a later device, they held off. Usually I wouldn't really have a problem with this, but this seems to be a systematic approach the company is taking with all of their devices. Holding off features for future incremental upgrades instead of substantial innovation.

 

[dugbug]

oh jesus will you 4K people get a room

 

[JimmyHook]

oh jesus will you 4K people get a room

But I want 5k!!!!! More k's!!!!! Lol

Except that Apple probably held back on including 4K in order to save it for a later iteration of the set top box.. So instead of being an adopter of technology that is already rather mainstream, Apple has decided to wait until the "masses" in society catch up. It's not like the technology isn't ripe yet. It's mature. But for some odd reason, probably money related along with saving a "feature" for a later device, they held off. Usually I wouldn't really have a problem with this, but this seems to be a systematic approach the company is taking with all of their devices. Holding off features for future incremental upgrades instead of substantial innovation.

Mainstream... lol. What percentage of households do you think have 4K TVs and what percentage of content from Cable providers and streaming services is 4K? Find those answers and let us know how mainstream it is.

 

[TheMacApple]

Mainstream... lol. What percentage of households do you think have 4K TVs and what percentage of content from Cable providers and streaming services is 4K? Find those answers and let us know how mainstream it is.

Got 4 in my house. Incase some don't know.... It upscale a everything to look better

 

[fithian]

What brand of 4K TV do you own and how much 4K content do you watch?

I have a Seiki 4K 55" TV which is used only as a monitor for my MacPro and ATV4. I can play youtube videos though the MacPro as well as upscaling just about everything. Marantz processor feeds the Seiki.

 

[eoblaed]

IMO, almost no chance of that.

The update will be called the TV 5 "now with 4K" (but otherwise identical to this "4," much like the "3" was the "2" "now with 1080p").

You buy the update, not get it for free via a software update.

And again, like the "3" update, it probably doesn't arrive until either with or soon after next year's iPads inherit this year's iPhone 4K camera. My guess is October 2016-March 2017 for the "5".

Magically, once Apple rolls out a 4K TV, all the 4K bashing, all the "you can't see the difference", "the chart", etc arguments against 4K will just evaporate, replaced by "shut up and take my money". And apparently, the "whole internet will be upgraded to make 4K work for everyone" too. And so on. In other words (and again just like group sentiment before the "3") all this negativity putting down 4K will just cease as soon as Apple embraces it in this product. What you won't see is this crowd calling Apple stupid for embracing the "gimmick", "another version of 3D", "nobody can see the difference" and so on. Even now, Apple's embrace of 4K in just about every other product they offer doesn't get ripped by these same people. 4K is only "useless" here... in this ONE Apple product... because Apple chose to leave it out of this one thing.

I think most Apple fans would embrace 4K. The only reason I'm not crowing for it now is that there's still not yet a ton of 4K content out there. There will be, it's clear, and hopefully by the time Apple throws 4K into the AppleTV, there'll be a critical mass of content to enjoy on it.

And really, that's been Apple's approach for many years. They don't throw in new tech just for the sake of new tech. If there's not a preponderance of use for it, they hold off until such time as it's more than just a token addition.

 

[Tork]

4k will take off for sure since prices are falling like crazy. But seriously, has anyone ever watched something on a 1080p set that's not like 70" and that's not right up against their face and thought things looked particularly pixelated?

Never have thought that. Plus an incredible number of people don't have access to the bandwidth needed to stream 4k in the US -- either due to crazy high prices or no availability to the speeds needed at all. And no sign of that changing in the US, sadly.

 

[JDHiro]

For anyone who may be curious, the "4K" crowd here is not composed of Apple fans. It's competitor agitation and it's pretty sad at that.

Not sure if trolling...

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

There will be, it's clear, and hopefully by the time Apple throws 4K into the AppleTV, there'll be a critical mass of content to enjoy on it. And really, that's been Apple's approach for many years. They don't throw in new tech just for the sake of new tech. If there's not a preponderance of use for it, they hold off until such time as it's more than just a token addition.

How do you reconcile USB3C, Thunderbolt, Lightning, 5K iMac screens, etc. Was there much USB3C out there when they sprung that one on us? Is there much Thunderbolt quite a long time since they sprung that one on us? Lightning waited a good while for third party adoption. I believe Apple does embrace new tech when it serves Apple's interests.

Again, they did put 4K recording in new iPhones. They added 4K editing in iMovie. 4K is supported in Quicktime. It's natively editable on new 4K and 5K iMacs. iTunes will store those 4K files just fine. The new iPad Pro apparently can edit three 4K streams at the same time. That looks like "embracing" to me. It's only not embraced in this ONE product from Apple.

Curiously, if we hop over to threads of Apple's products where 4K is already embraced by Apple, all this anti-4K crowd does not show up there faulting Apple for embracing it in those products. Only fellow consumers desiring 4K in one other Apple product are wrong for wanting it. It seems if we can fault the desire for 4K among fellow Apple consumers, we could fault Apple themselves for embracing it in just about every other Apple product. But that never happens... which implies that our sentiment about 4K is not really our own. Instead it appears to adapt to align with the Apple product line being discussed.

 

[citysnaps]

How do you reconcile USB3C, Thunderbolt, Lightning, 5K iMac screens, etc. Was there much USB3C out there when they sprung that one on us? Is there much Thunderbolt quite a long time since they sprung that one on us? Lightning waited a good while for third party adoption. I believe Apple does embrace new tech when it serves Apple's interests.

Again, they did put 4K recording in new iPhones. They added 4K editing in iMovie. 4K is supported in Quicktime. It's natively editable on new 4K and 5K iMacs. iTunes will store those 4K files just fine. The new iPad Pro apparently can edit three 4K streams at the same time. That looks like "embracing" to me. It's only not embraced in this ONE product from Apple.

Curiously, if we hop over to threads of Apple's products where 4K is already embraced by Apple, all this anti-4K crowd does not show up there faulting Apple for embracing it in those products. Only fellow consumers desiring 4K in one other Apple product are wrong for wanting it. It seems if we can fault the desire for 4K among fellow Apple consumers, we could fault Apple themselves for embracing it in just about every other Apple product. But that never happens... which implies that our sentiment about 4K is not really our own. Instead it appears to adapt to align with the Apple product line being discussed.

"Curiously, if we hop over to threads of Apple's products where 4K is already embraced by Apple, all this anti-4K crowd does not show up there faulting Apple for embracing it in those products."

You misunderstand. The crowd is not anti-4K. Yes, my phone phone may record 4K. But I don't use that feature and it doesn't get in the way or worry me. Same thing with Thunderbolt. My iMac has it, and again, it doesn't get in the way. Why would I or others fault Apple for including those features?

The "crowd" is just wondering how many people who are complaining about the lack of 4K capability in the Apple TV, actually have 4K sets, and how much 4K content is out there that they're actually watching.

 

[JimmyHook]

How do you reconcile USB3C, Thunderbolt, Lightning, 5K iMac screens, etc. Was there much USB3C out there when they sprung that one on us? Is there much Thunderbolt quite a long time since they sprung that one on us? Lightning waited a good while for third party adoption. I believe Apple does embrace new tech when it serves Apple's interests.

Again, they did put 4K recording in new iPhones. They added 4K editing in iMovie. 4K is supported in Quicktime. It's natively editable on new 4K and 5K iMacs. iTunes will store those 4K files just fine. The new iPad Pro apparently can edit three 4K streams at the same time. That looks like "embracing" to me. It's only not embraced in this ONE product from Apple.

Curiously, if we hop over to threads of Apple's products where 4K is already embraced by Apple, all this anti-4K crowd does not show up there faulting Apple for embracing it in those products. Only fellow consumers desiring 4K in one other Apple product are wrong for wanting it. It seems if we can fault the desire for 4K among fellow Apple consumers, we could fault Apple themselves for embracing it in just about every other Apple product. But that never happens... which implies that our sentiment about 4K is not really our own. Instead it appears to adapt to align with the Apple product line being discussed.

Consumer content != professional needs

Also, it didn't happen. There's nothing left to say. You can keep typing, it won't make 4K appear. It may with a software update. Until then, there's nothing left you can say to change anything

Consumer content != professional needs

Also, it didn't happen. There's nothing left to say. You can keep typing, it won't make 4K appear. It may with a software update. Until then, there's nothing left you can say to change anything

Apparently people believe "upscaling" helps despite all evidence to the contrary.

 

[adamneer]

Apparently people believe "upscaling" helps despite all evidence to the contrary.

If anything, upscaling would decrease the quality of the picture, since it is up to the device's processor to produce what it *thinks* should be the missing pixels in between. I know watching SD non-digital content on a nice big 1080p screen looks like crap compared to watching it on the 27" tube tv it was meant for. I know this isn't a direct analogy, but it is still relevant. For some reason people think "upscaling" means it is magically creating higher resolution, when in all actuality, it's just providing "seat fillers" for the missing pixels.

 

[Norbs12]

IMO, almost no chance of that.

The update will be called the TV 5 "now with 4K" (but otherwise identical to this "4," much like the "3" was the "2" "now with 1080p").

You buy the update, not get it for free via a software update.

And again, like the "3" update, it probably doesn't arrive until either with or soon after next year's iPads inherit this year's iPhone 4K camera. My guess is October 2016-March 2017 for the "5".

Magically, once Apple rolls out a 4K TV, all the 4K bashing, all the "you can't see the difference", "the chart", etc arguments against 4K will just evaporate, replaced by "shut up and take my money". And apparently, the "whole internet will be upgraded to make 4K work for everyone" too. And so on. In other words (and again just like group sentiment before the "3") all this negativity putting down 4K will just cease as soon as Apple embraces it in this product. What you won't see is this crowd calling Apple stupid for embracing the "gimmick", "another version of 3D", "nobody can see the difference" and so on. Even now, Apple's embrace of 4K in just about every other product they offer doesn't get ripped by these same people. 4K is only "useless" here... in this ONE Apple product... because Apple chose to leave it out of this one thing.

Look, I get your frustration but you have to realize that the internet is a collective and just because there are people making excuses for Apple doesn't mean there isn't a group that just isn't buying it because it doesn't have 4K and they also have nothing to justify so they stay quiet. Expecting consensus from billions of individuals is your first mistake.

IMO Apple didn't go with 4k because the performance just isn't there yet in the chips they have. Believe me, even in 1080P I see some games start to stutter and lag on this ATV 4. Why did I buy it and why am I keeping it? Well I only have a 1080P tv with no plans to upgrade any time soon. I'm also keeping it because it's pretty damn nice for a $150 box with apps coming out daily and it's only going to get better.

 

[JDHiro]

The "crowd" is just wondering how many people who are complaining about the lack of 4K capability in the Apple TV, actually have 4K sets, and how much 4K content is out there that they're actually watching.

I don't know if you've been in a Best Buy or Costco recently, but you can't avoid 4K TVs. Almost every mid-range or higher TV sold from mid-2015 and after will be 4K.

Netflix, Amazon, and YouTube all have 4K content supported in SmartTV apps. Yes, there is still a larger distribution problem, but technology companies make money by solving technical problems and then selling them. Apple has been an innovator in high-resolution displays. It's unclear why Apple is choosing to be a follower in 4K TV, instead of leading the way like they did with Retina screens.

 

[TsMkLg068426]

Try it first

Trust me new Apple TV does look nice and the minor hardware changes are also nice but the fact it only support tvOS and ATV 3rd Gen iOS which likely will not get anymore updates or that ATV4 theonly way if I am not mistaken you can only update through USB-C or USB-A instead of through the Air like ATV3 is terrible since I have a iMac mid-2011.


Lets not for the lack of 4K, DTS-HD and 3D is another issue for a company like Apple that use to be so innovative putting out the best before any other competitors and I don't want to hear "well I don't have 4K so it's all good for me" just because you can not afford one does not mean other can't.

 

[Da-Aaron]

Trust me new Apple TV does look nice and the minor hardware changes are also nice but the fact it only support tvOS and ATV 3rd Gen iOS which likely will not get anymore updates or that ATV4 theonly way if I am not mistaken you can only update through USB-C or USB-A instead of through the Air like ATV3 is terrible since I have a iMac mid-2011.


Lets not for the lack of 4K, DTS-HD and 3D is another issue for a company like Apple that use to be so innovative putting out the best before any other competitors and I don't want to hear "well I don't have 4K so it's all good for me" just because you can not afford one does not mean other can't.

Oh no. There's already a pointless 4K war going on, please don't bring up 3D too...

 

[Karma*Police]

No one's against the ATV4 having 4K. For me it's just not a feature whose absence would stop me from getting the ATV4. There are plenty of other pluses to having the ATV4. Even with a few missing things, it's a vast improvement over ATV3 and a step in the right direction.

If you feel different and lack of 4K is a deal breaker, then don't get it. No biggie. I just don't see the point in continuing to complain about it. I highly doubt it was Apple being cheap or trying to extort money, which is what most of the complaints insist. One could argue they would have gotten a lot MORE money if they were able to implement it.

From my one day of using it, I can kind of see why they may not have put it in. tvOS looks like a practically ground up redesign from the software perspective. I would venture a guess that having 4K would add more (potential) problems to deal with than what they already have (lag, buffering, etc). Every feature they add leads to another possible failure point. So, leave it out for now and add it at a future date when they have a lot more users, a lot more apps, the OS is more stable, and more important features are implemented (eg true universal Siri support).

Not to mention, 4K presents storage issues. Some people are complaining about 32GB being too low... 4K apps and content would blow through that even faster.

 

[ErikGrim]

Cool story. On the consumer level it's a different story. And who says they won't update to 4K via software when they are ready?

The HDMI1 spec.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Look, I get your frustration but you have to realize that the internet is a collective and just because there are people making excuses for Apple doesn't mean there isn't a group that just isn't buying it because it doesn't have 4K and they also have nothing to justify so they stay quiet. Expecting consensus from billions of individuals is your first mistake.

I'm not seeking consensus. That's the other way (the anti-4K crowd wants everyone to like it exactly as Apple served it up; don't anyone dare have any counterpoint or wish it did anything more than it does). My view is simple: a 4KTV allows those who want 4K playback (last link in an entirely Apple product chain) to get what they want (too). AND, it would easily play 1080p or 720p or SD for those happy with those less-demanding standards... just like the TV3 could play 720p or SD for those happy with <1080p resolution. A 4KTV would play those less demanding standards at their fullest resolution. So the crowd happy with any of those would get their video exactly as they want it and as good as they could get it.

But that doesn't work the other way. Hard capping at 1080p means the 4K crowd is simply excluded or have to make do if they want an TV anyway.

Which way is better? My view is NOT to force 4K on anyone that doesn't want it. But it would be great for the group that does to get what they want too. The counterpoint is to EXCLUDE the 4K-hungry by offering weak options like "go buy someone else's box," which sounds fine, but doesn't work for anyone otherwise pretty locked into the Apple ecosystem... such as most of the people that hang out at an Apple-oriented forum like this one.

IMO Apple didn't go with 4k because the performance just isn't there yet in the chips they have.

Much harder (on chips) to dynamically capture 4K and render it into a file on the fly than to play it back. They have the chips.

Believe me, even in 1080P I see some games start to stutter and lag on this ATV 4.

That's the thing though. Just about everyone that goes counterpoint to the 4K wish imagines they have to deal with 4K in one way or another. They wouldn't. No new TV to buy as the box could downscale to whatever HDTV they have now. No 4K video files to download- they could keep choosing the <4K option just as they do now. No new internet pipes have to be laid if they are downloading the exact same file type they download now. Etc.

As to judder in games pushing the limits of the chips, gamemakers could target 1080p or 720p and those with 4K TVs would simply upscale them with the TV's upscaler tech... just like 4K TVs upscale 1080p of 720p movies. Sure upscaling is not the same as native but that wouldn't have to be an obstacle for bringing great games to the new TV. Next year or so, when Apple rolls out the "5" ("now with 4K"), many of this years app's and games targeting 1080p or 720p won't be "upgraded" for 4K. They'll just play exactly as they do now at 1080p or 720p or whatever target the game coders selected... and anyone's 4K TV will simply upscale them... just like it will do with movies or TV shows encoded for 1080p or 720p or even SD.

Why did I buy it and why am I keeping it? Well I only have a 1080P tv with no plans to upgrade any time soon. I'm also keeping it because it's pretty damn nice for a $150 box with apps coming out daily and it's only going to get better.

I agree. TV is a FANTASTIC product. I've owned multiple versions of every one of them. I think they are one of Apple's very best products, overlooked somewhat even by Apple themselves. I look forward to owning this one too. The lack of this one feature doesn't make it a terrible product. The extra consumer want from some of us was just that it also came with this feature too. That it lacks it is just a consumer annoyance of those that care... like when Apple phones lacked bigger screens or NFC or when TV still clung to 720p when some of us longed for 1080p 4+ years ago... all of which was also throughly bashed as "stupid", "no one needs" and so on UNTIL Apple adopted them.

 

[sofila]

For anyone who may be curious, the "4K" crowd here is not composed of Apple fans. It's competitor agitation and it's pretty sad at that.

Yep. Some people registered on this site more than 11 (eleven) 10+1 years ago to provide competitor's agitation now at the end of 2015.
Talking about sad things, you should point your finger the opposite way.
My 2 cents

 

[crashoverride77]

Me. Why? Because we've already seen this exact same story. When Apple clung to 720p while pretty much everyone else had embraced 1080p, people like you made the same argument against those of us wishing for a 1080p TV. Then, Apple rolls out a 1080p and people like you don't show up to call Apple stupid for embracing a gimmick, "stupid", "nobody can see", "the chart", etc. Only fellow Apple consumers are stupid when they wish Apple had included something in a new product... until Apple goes there and then it's "shut up and take my money".

Apple will go 4K with the TV5 which will pretty much be the TV4 "now with 4K". See TV3 "now with 1080p" for precedent.

4k is so far away from being standard. Also that's how Apple rolls, or why do you think the iPad pro doesn't have 3D Touch?

Except that Apple probably held back on including 4K in order to save it for a later iteration of the set top box.. So instead of being an adopter of technology that is already rather mainstream, Apple has decided to wait until the "masses" in society catch up. It's not like the technology isn't ripe yet. It's mature. But for some odd reason, probably money related along with saving a "feature" for a later device, they held off. Usually I wouldn't really have a problem with this, but this seems to be a systematic approach the company is taking with all of their devices. Holding off features for future incremental upgrades instead of substantial innovation.

which one is it ?
If the majority of people don't use 4K yet, which they don't, than its not mainstream. Most of the world doesn't even have Internet speeds anywhere near what you need for 4K. Lol

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

4k is so far away from being standard. Also that's how Apple rolls, or why do you think the iPad pro doesn't have 3D Touch?

USB3C is so far away from being a mainstream standard. Lightning is so far from being a standard. Thunderbolt was so far from being a standard. Apple Pay. Touch ID. FaceTime. FairPlay. iMessage. Etc. What got them going? Apple adopting them made them a standard (well, we're still waiting on mainstream USB3C).

4K is a standard because Apple adopted it in iPhone. What they chose there will dominate in terms of 4K standards. Had they implemented 4K in this one remaining Apple product that doesn't have it, they would have established it as a standard too. Studios would have targeted Apple's choice of a 4K standard. Games that could play at 4K would target Apple's 4K standard. And so on.

But let's go your way and let lots of competition establish a 4K standard and sell lots of 4K products including to us Apple people looking for an easy way to push the 4K we shoot on our new phones to our new TV at 4K native. Then Apple can come in late and play catch up. That's the way to do it. That's what we want for Apple. Why don't we feel the same about next year's A10 chip? Or new hardware in Macs? Or about just any hardware advancements in all other Apple products? You don't see much call for clinging to the status quo in anything else that Apple makes. Instead we whine when they roll out new Macs without the latest & greatest chipsets or graphics, etc.

Of course we don't put them down for embracing their 4K standard in just about everything else they sell. It's just stupid and non-standard in discussions about this ONE Apple product. Why? Because Apple didn't build this ONE thing with 4K (yet).