Well, more that I think Apple needs to make that move, and the A12X won't be sufficient. It *may* be for most of the current Apple Arcade games, certainly a big step up from the A10X.
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New Apple TV soon (Jon Prosser)
- Thread starter mjohansen
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Yup, balance of cost vs power.
Xbox and Playstation need to be powerful to maintain "best gaming console" competitive edge. Many are willing to spend more for power.
Apple TV is a streaming box first, gaming second.
For Apple to justify putting the latest and greatest processor, Apple needs to attract or acquire premier AAA gaming studios.
In the absence of Apple officially entering gaming console market, tvOS must be tuned for limited gaming hardware. On Apple TV 4K, games should run at 8-bit 1080p. On A12X Apple TV 6, perhaps games can run in 10-bit HDR, upscaled to 4K just like Xbox One S.
Thanks for bringing the cost thing up. I forgot to mention the difference in price between an ATV and an Xbox/PlayStation.
Well reasoned. TV 1st. Gaming 2nd. It should be 'excellent at the 1st' and 'decent at the 2nd.' A12X has it covered.
So you can really push the quality at Hi-Def. Smooth. High quality metal games. I quite like the innovative 'old school' concept based games on iOS. It's like having the C64 reborn in some ways.
It's not as if the current consoles are doing 'Hi-Def' at great FPS. Or doing Hi-Def at all. The next gen will match that and raise it '5' aiming squarely for 4k. The next gen won't arrive until about Dec' this year-ish. I'd expect the ATV to arrive for about then or sooner at WWDC.
I think for casual gaming, the A12X will have reach from Hi-Def to 4k. However, your point about doing running as standard for 1080p and upscaled to 4k is a sound one. ATV can 'set the standard' for causal hi-def gaming for a mainstream audience. The A12x IS the chip to do that with. Balancing cost vs performance. (With the A14X to chase down the PS5 et al care withan ATV update in another two years time....?)
Whilst we can't rule out Apple acquiring a premier gaming studio (Bungie maybe?) I think Apple Arcade, for now, is all about a premier gateway for gaming studios to make content for Mac/Pad/Phone/TV. This is a significant move by Apple. We can't possibly compare it to the Pippin.
So the standard of the service will rise over time. Still very early days. An A12X chip in the ATV with a £99 inc vat price to shift units will get more 'bums on seats' for gaming studios to target the ATV but if Apple are clever they can get the phone/ipad games targeted to the ATV platform with a minimum of effort re: developer efforts. Make it easy to port to ATV.Once the ATV streaming TV subs settles in, Arcade beds in...the hardware target improves the potential quality of both experiences and the mi-fi option becomes more settled then any one buying into the ATV eco system (including devs) will have a good experience that will 'grow' better with them over time.
Azrael.
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It needs more reasons to be successful. Gaming is one of those reasons. So an A12X is the least of what it needs. That should make it competitive with the current gen consoles give or take. As a Console-Lite option, £150 isn't so bad. £99 would be more compelling.
So price. Hardware. Then devs. Chicken and egg.
(Any benches on A12X vs PS4?)
Azrael.
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Just wish I knew when the new one was coming out! I have two Apple TV 2s in my house.
Want to watch what Apple tv + has on my big screen without airplay issues.
As for gaming...folks that want to game are not looking at Apple TV for that need.
You can get cheap Xbox ones and PS4s for what an Apple TV costs...they just don't do Apple tv+!!!
Want to watch what Apple tv + has on my big screen without airplay issues.
As for gaming...folks that want to game are not looking at Apple TV for that need.
You can get cheap Xbox ones and PS4s for what an Apple TV costs...they just don't do Apple tv+!!!
They are if they are me.
And? 1 billion others. eg. The iPhone is just a phone. Not a games machine. The iPad is just a 'pad' media device. The Mac is 'just' a creative workstation. Thing is. If you sell enough, they become defacto magnets for Devs, apps and money. And yes, GAMES!I hear what you're saying. But you could make the same argument to discount the ATV over it's pricey price...and buy a Roku or Amazon option instead.
The more choices for gaming platforms the better. It doesn't end with PS, XBox or PC Towers. The legendary C64 was £199 in the UK back 'when.' I had one. So having a great gaming box for £99-£199 should still be 'a thing.' Close to £199 and you get compared to the PS4. Closer to £150 and you're getting compared to the 'Cube' Amazon for TV. That's for Apple to weigh up and balance their target demographic which is TV streaming. But it doesn't want to be a one trick pony as cheaper options can do TV streaming far cheaper, just as good and some say, with better 'siri' style talk. So more strings to your bow is prudent.
£249 for a PS4. eg. Argos. (I bought the PS3 when it was £200 2nd hand.)
2nd hand. £180. Eg. Ebay.
2nd £220 with a clutch of games eg. Ebay.
Yes. Well established that the ATV's primary focus is TV.
To be 'very good' at casual gaming at a compelling price is a good strong 2ndary reason (not everyone is a hard core gamer or can devote the time to games of 'that' type. But may whilst away some time on 'Cooking Momma.') It can be it's own market as the Nintendo Switch has show vs PS4 or Xbox.
Each platform can bring it's own type of games.
Apple have to watch the price of ATV. When competitors are half the price and counting.
But to be console-lite at £99 with an A12X gives the ATV a couple of strings to it's bow...and can leverage the games that take advantage of iOS, iPhone and iPad's power. The ATV should be in relative lock step with that eco system. It would be madness not to take avantage of that App eco-system for games and other apps. iOS is 1 billion devices pervasive as are TVs. So it's perfect sense to beef up the ATV to able to be strong at TV, games and apps in general.
If I could pay £99 for an ATV with an A12X chip for gaming? I would. Compare that to the price of a new PS4 or the pending PS5. Not everybody is going to want the Epic Games Unreal 5 engine and exhaustive gameplay of the 'Lara Croft' style game demo as impressive as it was.
At £150 circa....Apple have to watch they aren't losing the the tv customers for the Amazon cube or the potential gaming crowd to the Switch/PS4.
They need to balance the price/spec pervasive. TV is prime. Games are an important 2ndary in my view and they can leverage the massive iOS eco system so it is something they should be doing. Apps in general and that means a chip that can handle the pressure.
We're right to note that ATV and PS4 are different audiences. Not everyone can afford a Switch, a PS4 or the pending PS5. So a £100 Cheaper price allows some to TV and Game. Both TV and Gaming in their broadest sense...are very casual markets but lucrative and pervasive. And the 'kind of games' some turn their noses up on iOS are more like the kind of games I like, perhaps less overblown.
When I sit down and play the PS3, I have to put my 'serious gamer' hat on. It's more exhausting.
A12x. The new ATV King? The best at ATV streaming and the best at Casual Gaming should be the twin pillars of it's business plan. Priced? £99-£150 for two models.
Azrael.
PS. I note you can register your 'interest' at Argos for the PS5. So I guess that is happening around Christmas, eh? It won't be £240, I'll vouch.
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Apple TV 4k is currently £179 for 32GB and £199 for 64GB.They are if they are me.
I hear what you're saying. But you could make the same argument to discount the ATV over it's pricey price...and buy a Roku or Amazon option instead.
The more choices for gaming platforms the better. It doesn't end with PS, XBox or PC Towers. The legendary C64 was £199 in the UK back 'when.' I had one. So having a great gaming box for £99-£199 should still be 'a thing.' Close to £199 and you get compared to the PS4. Closer to £150 and you're getting compared to the 'Cube' Amazon for TV. That's for Apple to weigh up and balance their target demographic which is TV streaming. But it doesn't want to be a one trick pony as cheaper options can do TV streaming far cheaper, just as good and some say, with better 'siri' style talk. So more strings to your bow is prudent.
£249 for a PS4. eg. Argos. (I bought the PS3 when it was £200 2nd hand.)
2nd hand. £180. Eg. Ebay.
2nd £220 with a clutch of games eg. Ebay.
Yes. Well established that the ATV's primary focus is TV.
To be 'very good' at casual gaming at a compelling price is a good strong 2ndary reason (not everyone is a hard core gamer or can devote the time to games of 'that' type. But may whilst away some time on 'Cooking Momma.') It can be it's own market as the Nintendo Switch has show vs PS4 or Xbox.
Each platform can bring it's own type of games.
Apple have to watch the price of ATV. When competitors are half the price and counting.
But to be console-lite at £99 with an A12X gives the ATV a couple of strings to it's bow...and can leverage the games that take advantage of iOS, iPhone and iPad's power. The ATV should be in relative lock step with that eco system. It would be madness not to take avantage of that App eco-system for games and other apps. iOS is 1 billion devices pervasive as are TVs. So it's perfect sense to beef up the ATV to able to be strong at TV, games and apps in general.
If I could pay £99 for an ATV with an A12X chip for gaming? I would. Compare that to the price of a new PS4 or the pending PS5. Not everybody is going to want the Epic Games Unreal 5 engine and exhaustive gameplay of the 'Lara Croft' style game demo as impressive as it was.
At £150 circa....Apple have to watch they aren't losing the the tv customers for the Amazon cube or the potential gaming crowd to the Switch/PS4.
They need to balance the price/spec pervasive. TV is prime. Games are an important 2ndary in my view and they can leverage the massive iOS eco system so it is something they should be doing. Apps in general and that means a chip that can handle the pressure.
We're right to note that ATV and PS4 are different audiences. Not everyone can afford a Switch, a PS4 or the pending PS5. So a £100 Cheaper price allows some to TV and Game. Both TV and Gaming in their broadest sense...are very casual markets but lucrative and pervasive. And the 'kind of games' some turn their noses up on iOS are more like the kind of games I like, perhaps less overblown.
When I sit down and play the PS3, I have to put my 'serious gamer' hat on. It's more exhausting.
A12x. The new ATV King? The best at ATV streaming and the best at Casual Gaming should be the twin pillars of it's business plan. Priced? £99-£150 for two models.
Azrael.
PS. I note you can register your 'interest' at Argos for the PS5. So I guess that is happening around Christmas, eh? It won't be £240, I'll vouch.
Isn't it more likely that those price points remain, but the spec improves? That seems to be their usual MO
If Apple would like to branch out into gaming, they should take a look at Nintendo. Nintendo does not strive to produce a graphical powerhouse each generation. Nintendo's focus is in developing games that are engaging and fun to play, placing an emphasis on the gaming experience rather than relying on graphical power. Take Animal Crossing for example. It is not the most graphically pleasing game to look at; however, it is fun to play. You can say that with most of Nintendo's gaming catalog (i.e.: Mario Odessey, Luigi's Mansion, MarioKart, Zelda, etc.). Apple can strive for something similar.
I would imagine Apple being Apple will keep the pricing the same even though they should be lowering it to be competitive IMO. The HomePod is one example I can think of where the device itself is 3 or 4 times more expensive than other options in the market and offers pretty much the same experience. Just how I see it.
Apple TV ship times have now slipped (in the UK at least) to the middle/end of next week. Could we see an announcement at the start of next week? Maybe tvOS 13.4.5 is mainly for new hardware and it’ll be released alongside it.
I recently got the new 12.9" ipad pro and have a Macbook Pro 13" coming in today. I was taking a look at the Apple TV but it seems that the release of a new model is now imminent.
I am itching to get a new AppleTV. With the news of a refreshed model, I will wait.
You're right there. Apple's 'MO'. (Don't I know it. $700 wheels, 6k towers, 1k stands...yeesh...or £1k for a mini biscuit tin that doesn't include dGPU...or $300 for 'stand' for the iPad.)
Apple should at least give the customer of courtesy of cutting prices when products haven't been updated between 2 and 6 years.
£179? Yeesh. That's gone up since I last checked. I wouldn't pay that.
£199. No screen. You can get the iPad 'low cost' for a bit more than that. And make that your 'ATV.'
ATV should be around £99 to £150. Tops.
But if people will pay it...Apple will charge it. Their pricing has gotten really out of whack of late.
Sheer creamery.
At least put a decent spec on it. It's way out of date.
Azrael.
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Yes. Wise move.
Azrael.
I will hold out for the end of June - will be very disappointed if they don't roll out something by then. With everyone home because of the pandemic, now would be the prime time to introduce a new box.
See they are playing in the console space pricing-wise. The current, and likely future, Apple TV already costs about the same as Xbox S. The Apple TV needs to up the appeal to break out of its shrinking niche or it will go the way of the AirPort basestations. The original raison d'être, watching your iTunes video content on a big screen, is largely moot with AirPlay and AppleTV (the app) showing up on more TV/devices. Games are a low-hanging fruit in keeping the hardware relevant.
Personally, I'd rather see it merge with the HomePod to function as more of soundbar/streamer and/or have a webcam accessory. But I'm very skeptical that Apple will push the hardware in that direction. Meanwhile, they already have a vested interest in games just no success bringing them into the living room.
True. Time to get serious about pushing volume with the ATV like they did with the iPod on the lower end models.
I think you've summed it up. They need to get serious to become pervasive in the tv market.
Make the money off the streaming subs. Price the box to go with a juicy spec for buck.
Azrael.
It would be nice to see, but more likely to be announced at WWDC with an Autumn release.
Yes, and no. Both of those items are offering tech that others are not at a premium. I'd argue that, while it may not be worth it to many/most people, the HomePod actually packs in a lot more tech than ANYONE else at or near it's original price point, let alone the regular discounted price. Eight drivers, including a very custom 4" sub, and a faster processor than what's in the Nintendo Switch (which sells for the same price)? Meanwhile, the Apple TV hardware, while currently sporting a faster processor than any streaming box, is not priced close to the outgoing Xbox and PS4 while being much slower and less capable. It is essentially a box with a SoC inside. I'm confident the Apple TV hardware has a much higher premium—unless the hardware update adds some new features like a near-field mic array, UWB, etc. without raising the price.
Well exactly. The HomePod which I acknowledge has better hardware than say an Amazon Echo, but this may not be needed or appealing to the wider audience, hence why it is less popular. I looked into it a couple of years ago and when I realised I could get 3 Echo's for the price of one HomePod, I felt like the Echo was worth the punt. It does the job and the sound quality is good enough for me. Amazon are also far far ahead of Apple in terms of voice recognition too so that influenced me.
The Apple TV may also be better in terms of hardware and power than the Amazon Cube, but again I think that gets largely lost when the experience is much the same. When I am streaming Netflix and Disney+ I am not too bothered how powerful the processor is as long as its doing the job. I'm sure a lot of this boasts a better gaming experience and that's great if you've bought it to play games. I ended up getting the Cube for £62 and when faced with that I really had to ask myself why i was considering paying £179 for the Apple 4k TV? It was a lot of money more for a slightly cleaner interface, a poor controller and no YouTube 4K. It simply fell short and the shortcomings of the Cube were a little easier to digest.
Different priorities. Sound quality was my top concern before I bought a HomePod and, without getting into the specifics and derailing this thread, there isn't anything like it available. We use HomePod for Siri a lot more than I expected and it works fairly well (def room for improvement). I don't regret what I spent even buying the HomePod on day one.
Same with the Apple TV. My first, 3rd gen., one got put away when I bought an LG OLED, but the apps choked on our poor internet. Don't regret spending the money on the 4K TV for the much, much better buffering; slightly better IQ; and access to Apple Photos slideshows.
However, I think unless Apple ups the ante there are far more people like you than me and they'll lose what little ground they've got.