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New Apple TV will be 4K

HobeSoundDarryl said:
OP I'll wish right with you but if you consider past evolutionary steps, before a new :apple:TV gets that kind of upgrade, at least the iPhone needs to be shooting 4K. That probably comes with storing such shoots as h.265. The hop to a 1080p :apple:TV (3/7/12) was preceded by iPhone 4s (10/14/11) going 1080p many months before. I would expect Apple to formally roll out a 4K iPhone first or, at best, simultaneously (though I expect the former).

As to the flash drive option, I'd much prefer normalizing the USB port so that just about any size of local storage (including fat hard drive or even raid storage) could be attached by those interested. Since the existing model already has a (not normalized) USB port, it seems like a more favorable scenario to accomplish what you (and I) want.

All these people talking about the lack of 4K (and 1080p) sets in place, etc are doing the same thing people were doing when some of us were wishing for a 1080p :apple:TV: "not enough bandwidth", "not enough storage", "until everyone has 1080p sets", etc. There's nothing wrong with a company like Apple taking a step ahead of the masses. Just as a 1080p :apple:TV could still flow 720p and SD to TV sets that couldn't play 1080p, a 4K :apple:TV could still flow 1080p, 720p and SD to TV sets not capable of 4K. Some part of the chain must step ahead to eventually motivate the masses to upgrade. We wish for "latest & greatest" in every other "coming soon" Apple release and then gripe if Apple didn't put the latest "wow!" into something... except this one thing, where we seem to take a view of waiting until everything else is completely in place and updated first and THEN it will make sense for Apple to go there too.
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H.265 was snuck into iPhone 6/plus for FaceTime. So hopefully this is enough for the next step.

http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/News/Online-Video-News/Apple-Supports-H.265-But-So-Far-Only-in-FaceTime-on-an-iPhone-6-100392.aspx
 
Snoopy4 said:
You and me both. I was hoping something would at least be announced this year but Nada.
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No announcements yet, but I just noticed at the bottom of this page, It says "Apple TV Starting at $99." When you click on that text, it takes you to the Apple store, where you can only buy a $99 Apple TV. The "starting at" language could be hinting that a more expensive, more advanced model is on the way.
 
I can certainly see the need to implement 4k sooner rather than later on Apple's behalf, especially since iTunes and everyone else are losing ground to Netflix. Plus Amazon could obliterate the competition by introducing free digital copies with all physical purchases (which are often cheaper anyway), and nobody on the market could match that. In other words, they need to have the edge elsewhere.

Big question here: where does Google stand on this? Are they looking at offering 4K content in the Play store?

If so you can be certain Apple will not want to lag behind even more, and one thing is for certain: if iTunes starts offering 4K titles, the new Apple TV box will have to be able to play it.

Just a question of time IMO, but with Netflix already heading in this direction I think it is a case of sooner rather than later for Apple.
 
4K w/ h265 support would be nice however the AppleTV will likely follow the content Apple provides for it.

As much as I'd like to see it I think we'll hear about 4K itunes content before we hear of the ATV supporting it. If nothing else it will be available at similar times. And we haven't heard any rumors of either.
 
cynics said:
4K w/ h265 support would be nice however the AppleTV will likely follow the content Apple provides for it.

As much as I'd like to see it I think we'll hear about 4K itunes content before we hear of the ATV supporting it. If nothing else it will be available at similar times. And we haven't heard any rumors of either.
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This. Apple won't supply a 4k set top box until they supply 4k content - what would be the point?

Given how far the Apple TV is behind most other streamers, I would say it'll be a good few years until we see 4k.
 
Brian Y said:
Given how far the Apple TV is behind most other streamers, I would say it'll be a good few years until we see 4k.
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On the other hand it might be a good opportunity to get back up to speed and send a powerful message across to its rivals.

I used to think that Full-HD was here to stay for at least a decade if not more, and that there would be little point in going beyond that, but 4K has rather caught me by surprise by how quickly it has entered the mainstream. Especially when it comes to new TVs and surprisingly competitive pricing.

To be be honest I was thrown off by the fact that Blu-ray hasn't really caught on to the extent I thought it would. So - by analogy - I believed the demand for even higher resolutions was next to non-existent. Yet here we are, with streaming overtaking traditional discs in terms of picture quality, and Full-HD at risk of becoming a relict of the past before this decade is over...
 
lke said:
Another thing that I would like to see in the new Apple TV is a ssd flash drive to store some movies or tv shows. They could sell 2 versions one with a flash drive and the other without it
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For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would want some sort of flash drive on an AppleTV. I believe this would cause far more problems vs. benefits.

Let me preface this statement by acknowledging I bought the AppleTV (3rd generation) the first week it went on sale and I have been using it as my main source of TV entertainment since (I have not had cable in 4 years). Since this purchase I have converted all of my DVD's and Blu-Rays to files and have imported them into iTunes. All these files live on my secondary drive inside my Mac Mini. Using iTunes, I can stream all these movies at home to my computer, AppleTV, iPad, and iPhone. All my media is networked, and available to me at home on any device I want to use. The brilliance of AppleTV is that it is small, versatile, and simple to use.

Here is a list of problems I foresee with adding some sort of user accessible storage to the AppleTV:

- It will cost much more (probably double the price or more)
- It would add additional complexity and confusion to the user experience because of the potential for duplication of files
- more parts = more parts that could potentially break

Whenever Apple releases a new AppleTV I will purchase it for another TV in my household. My hope is the new AppleTV will have additional RAM which will adaptively predict what our viewing habits are. For example, if me or another family member is binge watching "Game of Thrones" or "Orange is the New Black", it will start downloading the next episode with any bandwidth that is available beyond what is currently being utilized.

PS - sorry for this rant.
 
rjmurry said:
For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would want some sort of flash drive on an AppleTV. I believe this would cause far more problems vs. benefits.

Let me preface this statement by acknowledging I bought the AppleTV (3rd generation) the first week it went on sale and I have been using it as my main source of TV entertainment since (I have not had cable in 4 years). Since this purchase I have converted all of my DVD's and Blu-Rays to files and have imported them into iTunes. All these files live on my secondary drive inside my Mac Mini. Using iTunes, I can stream all these movies at home to my computer, AppleTV, iPad, and iPhone. All my media is networked, and available to me at home on any device I want to use. The brilliance of AppleTV is that it is small, versatile, and simple to use.

Here is a list of problems I foresee with adding some sort of user accessible storage to the AppleTV:

- It will cost much more (probably double the price or more)
- It would add additional complexity and confusion to the user experience because of the potential for duplication of files
- more parts = more parts that could potentially break

Whenever Apple releases a new AppleTV I will purchase it for another TV in my household. My hope is the new AppleTV will have additional RAM which will adaptively predict what our viewing habits are. For example, if me or another family member is binge watching "Game of Thrones" or "Orange is the New Black", it will start downloading the next episode with any bandwidth that is available beyond what is currently being utilized.

PS - sorry for this rant.
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Touching on the cost keep in mind you mentioned that your files live on a computer and are streamed via iTunes. Thats far from inexpensive. In my case its a 2200 dollar iMac sitting in my office. Plus its not portable especially for hotel life. Utilizing iTunes you'll need to have a Macbook of some sort or Airplay from an iOS device, still bulky for travel and expensive.

Also RAM is likely too volatile for cacheing. The non user accessible flash storage is what does the caching now and is actually what you are looking for (but don't want?). It just needs to be utilized in a smarter fashion to obtain what you are looking for.
 
Since this thread seems to be pretty well covered I have to ask how much experience with h265 people have?

I figured I'd mess with it a bit so I took a random TV show (MKV file) that was encoded with h264 and high profile presets with veryslow encoding.

The file size with h264 ended up at 200.2mb.

Using the similar preset (veryslow, RF, FPS same as source, etc) except with h265 the file ended up being 189.8mb. ~5% smaller. However took about 4x longer to encode (i5).

Using DivX HEVC to watch both videos they look identical with the h265 file using more CPU to decode albeit not enough to make much of a difference. CPU/GPU temps hovered around the same (40c) playing both.

So did I do something wrong? Is Handbrake not that good at h265 encode? The file size savings vs time to encode was certainly not worth it nor was there any noticeable difference in quality.
 
rjmurry said:
For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would want some sort of flash drive on an AppleTV. I believe this would cause far more problems vs. benefits.
Click to expand...

It would be useful for those with Apple TV but without a desktop/laptop.

I would simply like to see some slots for memory cards, not something internal.

OR... the possibility of matching up the ATV with Apple's Airport Time Capsule to be able to store one's purchases there and be able to stream directly from there as well (without the need for a PC).
 
cynics said:
So did I do something wrong? Is Handbrake not that good at h265 encode? The file size savings vs time to encode was certainly not worth it nor was there any noticeable difference in quality.
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HBs h265 support is still in the early stages.

H.265 encoder
is now available through x265 1.4. While this encoder is still fairly new, we have seen some promising results come out of it. It's still under heavy active development and is only going to improve over time!
Click to expand...
 
markyr17 said:
And if it's an actual TV, not only will it be 4k, it will also cost 4k.
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If they build a TV, they need to be taken out in a field and be shot for incompetence. Keep the little box separate, just make it better. (iPad side car for your TV). They'll never recover the investment in an actual AppleTV. The product churn rate is too fast.

People keep talking this might have wifi access point/router. I think that's too much to break at once. Maybe that's not it at all. Maybe they're thinking wireless HDMI. That would be something.

----------
sodapop1 said:
Roku is already planning to support 4K streaming in their line of branded TVs sold at Best Buy. No doubt the standalone Roku 4 player will also include the same technology whenever it comes it. Perhaps this is the kick in the butt Apple needs to start upgrading the ATV.

http://homemediamagazine.com/consumer-electronics/roku-bows-4k-plans-expands-branded-tvs-34906
Click to expand...

Roku really has things figured out. Apple needs to be paying attention.
 
cynics said:
So did I do something wrong? Is Handbrake not that good at h265 encode? The file size savings vs time to encode was certainly not worth it nor was there any noticeable difference in quality.
Click to expand...

Compress by changing the bitrate, not the quality setting. Try using half the bitrate under h265, there should be a very minimal difference in file size compared to image quality.

What is the duration of your movie? You stated that the size under h264 compression is 200.2mb
 
I hope you are right about a new Apple TV being 4K, HDMI 2 and for iTunes to get with the 4K program because right now the Apple TV is OLD technology, I have the Samsung 4K TV and the built in apps, Netflix etc blow away the Apple TV so I really hope Apple decide to catch up soon, they have been waiting far too long to do this, they need to get with 4K ASAP.
 
crzdcolombian said:
Not enough people have 1080p tvs haha you think they will have a 4k one :)

its not happening people. Just buy the 3rd one sell it for 1/2 the price when the new one comes out people here have been talking about ATV 4 for they past 2 years about the updated version.

Have gotten 4 of these things used on craigslist for $50-60 bucks from people positive they will update them every time Apple has a press show
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There is a lot more to this. More and more people are getting 4K TV's every day for one. That number will only increase substantially when 4K Blu-rays are released. Which should be by the end of 2015. The only thing holding back 4K Blurays is the next video Codec. Currently the most used codec for compression to blurry is H264. Soon H265 will be coming out which will allow for 4K Blurays. this is due to the fact that H265 will keep the same quality of video with half the file size. The file size issue is what is holding back 4K Blurays at this time as with most films if they were released on 4K right now they would need to take up two disks (kinda like when Titanic was released on 2 VHS tapes back in the 90s.

Once H265 is released we will start to see films released on 4K Blurays. The main reason 4K isn't taking off right now is a lack of content. this will change when the new 4K Blurays are released.

Myself I've been waiting to get another Apple TV to put in the living room where I have my 50in 4K TV for the nextgen model with 4K capabilities.
 
ziegenbagel said:
There is a lot more to this. More and more people are getting 4K TV's every day for one. That number will only increase substantially when 4K Blu-rays are released. Which should be by the end of 2015. The only thing holding back 4K Blurays is the next video Codec. ...
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4k Bluray what a joke...

Buying a 4k TV and being ripped off with physical media is not the way ahead, it needs to be streaming and on demand and plenty of it. It doesn't have to be films either, give me high quality nature and documentaries.
 
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