Apps New applications

[tanfan]

The difference is ^^^I only have a few movies in itunes but LOTS in UV because i didn't start doing digital till a few years ago after UV started and with disc to digital and the ability to purchase cheap codes for many movie I built a large library.....it just made sense to me. Unless something changes Apple is forcing me out of their ecosystem....unless I use itunes.

 

[derekshank]

I hear you. But again, Apple is not forcing you to do anything.

1) You don't have to buy an Apple TV. It might not be for everyone.

2) Other content providers that compete with Apple might not be interested in making Apple products more attractive.

For folks like you who have invested heavily in iTunes competitors, this sucks. For my part, I don't purchase things that I have to stream from other servers. I like products that I own to be on my personal hard drives (if there is an internet service outage, I should still be able to watch movies that I already own) - and those movies should be able to be played on various players (like iTunes or VLC).

I don't want my media catalog split between multiple apps. That is seriously annoying. If the studios won't offer DRM Free digital copies, then they should at the very least offer the digital format with DRM through multiple channels such as iTunes, Flixster, Google Play, whatever.

But right now companies like UV and Disney block this kind of functionality and are seriously flawed in my opinion. I won't give them a penny until that changes. (The irony here is that UV is being difficult in an attempt to keep people from using Apple products... but all they've done is forced me to buy exclusively through iTunes).

I've ripped most of my physical DVD and Blu-Ray collection that allows me to use them however I wish. Currently they are all in my iTunes library, and accessible on my Apple TV.

I use iTunes as my central hub for all of my media (although I'd also consider using a 3rd party service like Plex if I can be convinced that the benefits are worth the hassle of moving them over).

The main point is... I'm not interested in owning movies that exist at a variety of different locations. I want them all in one spot. Currently, that's iTunes... so the Apple TV works beautifully for me.

 

[tanfan]

I hear you. But again, Apple is not forcing you to do anything.

1) You don't have to buy an Apple TV. It might not be for everyone.

2) Other content providers that compete with Apple might not be interested in making Apple products more attractive.

For folks like you who have invested heavily in iTunes competitors, this sucks. For my part, I don't purchase things that I have to stream from other servers. I like products that I own to be on my personal hard drives (if there is an internet service outage, I should still be able to watch movies that I already own) - and those movies should be able to be played on various players (like iTunes or VLC).

Companies like UV and Disney who block this kind of functionality are flawed in my opinion, and I won't give them a penny.

Just the opposite for me. I don't care to download anything, unless it's a few for portability. Streaming works great and I don't have to worry about my hard drive full of movies crashing, that happened to me once before. The bottom line, like I said before, I won't let Apple or anybody dictate to me what services I use so Apple will lose this customer if they stay this restrictive.....no big deal.

 

[derekshank]

Just the opposite for me. I don't care to download anything, unless it's a few for portability. Streaming works great and I don't have to worry about my hard drive full of movies crashing, that happened to me once before. The bottom line, like I said before, I won't let Apple or anybody dictate to me what services I use so Apple will lose this customer if they stay this restrictive.....no big deal.

That's fine. But just remember who the real culprit is here. Apple isn't the one that sold you a bunch of UV movies that aren't available to be played in VLC. That's on UV. And when they refuse to make an app for the Apple TV... that's on UV too.

You can keep claiming that Apple is dictating to you what services to use... but that doesn't make it true. UV is the one doing the dictating here. I owned a couple of UV movies, until I realized what was happening. I quickly reversed course.

As I said in an edit that you might not have read... I don't want my media catalog split between multiple apps. That is seriously annoying. If the studios won't offer DRM Free digital copies, then they should at the very least offer the digital format with DRM through multiple channels such as iTunes, Flixster, Google Play, whatever.

Currently, they don't. You can't blame Apple for that.

As for hard drive crashes... I have a Time Capsule. I'm not worried.

By the way... I feel like the way UV (and iTunes for that matter) operates is illegal. If I buy something, I own it. As the owner, I should be entitled to use it however I wish.

The few movies that I purchased on UV, I ended up downloading with a torrent. I wasn't aware of how restrictive UV was until too late. If I am ever accused of illegal activity, I am prepared to show that I only downloaded movies that I had already paid for in good faith. I feel entitled to use my own property on whatever device I choose.

With iTunes, at least I have the file that I can remove the DRM from with the proper software. With UV, it's somewhere inaccessible to me - so I have to go download it illegally elsewhere to use my own damn property.

This conversation as a whole is a little off topic though.

So back on track... Amazon and UV aren't coming to Apple TV any time soon.

 

[tanfan]

That's fine. But just remember who the real culprit is here. Apple isn't the one that sold you a bunch of UV movies that aren't available to be played in VLC. That's on UV. And when they refuse to make an app for the Apple TV... that's on UV too.

You can keep claiming that Apple is dictating to you what services to use... but that doesn't make it true. UV is the one doing the dictating here. I owned a couple of UV movies, until I realized what was happening. I quickly reversed course.

As I said in an edit that you might not have read... I don't want my media catalog split between multiple apps. That is seriously annoying. If the studios won't offer DRM Free digital copies, then they should at the very least offer the digital format with DRM through multiple channels such as iTunes, Flixster, Google Play, whatever.

Currently, they don't. You can't blame Apple for that.

As for hard drive crashes... I have a Time Capsule. I'm not worried.

By the way... I feel like the way UV (and iTunes for that matter) operates is illegal. If I buy something, I own it. As the owner, I should be entitled to use it however I wish.

The few movies that I purchased on UV, I ended up downloading with a torrent. I wasn't aware of how restrictive UV was until too late. If I am ever accused of illegal activity, I am prepared to show that I only downloaded movies that I had already paid for in good faith. I feel entitled to use my own property on whatever device I choose.

With iTunes, at least I have the file that I can remove the DRM from with the proper software. With UV, it's somewhere inaccessible to me - so I have to go download it illegally elsewhere to use my own damn property.

This conversation as a whole is a little off topic though.

So back on track... Amazon and UV aren't coming to Apple TV any time soon.

Hey, I think we found some common ground!...."Amazon and UV aren't coming to Apple TV any time soon."

After that I'm afraid we see things differently but hey, that's ok, message boards would be pretty boring if we all had the same opinions, so let me share my opinion and maybe a fact or 2, what the hell I have a few minutes...

I really think the studios had the right idea I just think they may have been too late...Imagine with all the discs you have, some of them you bought at Walmart, some from best buy, a few from Amazon and so on....now imagine if you had to have a separate DVD player for each of the DVDs depending on where you bought them...what, 5-6 different players? That would suck but that is exactly what we have with the digital movies we buy today. If I buy a DVD it will play on any DVD player....because there is a standard. That is what is needed here. If I buy a digital movie I should be able to play it at any of the storefronts from itunes to M-Go...all of them.

So, they formed the D.E.C.E https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Entertainment_Content_Ecosystem to come up with a standard so we could have interlopy with digital movies, just like DVD. Just about every tech company, electronics manufacturers, and studios joined to vote on a standard. Ultraviolet was formed...Apple and Disney were the notable no shows.
Not pointing my finger at you but, many seem to think UV was brought to us to compete with itunes, but it's just the opposite, UV was brought here not to compete but simply as a standard. All Apple had to do was join. Then every code would work in itunes......you wouldn't need a split library, just use itunes...All your movies would also be available anyplace else too. Vudu has a nice disc to digital feature you could use to convert your discs, and then watch them on itunes. UV doesn't want you switch from itunes, they just want itunes to join so your movies can be viewed any place (the part Apple doesn't like) The ONLY thing UV does is register your purchases in a central data base so you can link your favorite storefront. Ultraviolet doesn't stream, it doesn't download and it doesn't do disc to digital. Those are all features that the storefronts can use to attract us. Make the storefronts compete with better, more features and better UI but, don't try to hold my movies hostage...they are mine, just like DVD.

So when you say UV is the one dictating here, In my opinion it's just the opposite.

 

[shandyman]

I wish Amazon was on the Apple TV, but it isn't - and when I understand the reasons I'm forced to shrug.

Well, it's not like Apple are stopping Amazon from doing so, it's purely on Amazon and the reason is purely because Amazon haven't made the app. Any argument about 'Apple taking a cut of the revenue' is a bit unfounded, as the iOS app doesn't have any IAP and you sign up via Amazon, not thru the app. Amazon purely have done it to try and boost their sales for the Amazon Fire TV app, along with them removing any competition from their site. That tactic, has mainly bit them in the rear though. The people I know that have Amazon Prime video, that wanted the Apple TV bought it anyway and just use AirPlay to stream from the iOS app.

If Amazon didn't have an iOS app, this might actually make more sense to argue and seem less petty by Amazon.

So back on track... Amazon and UV aren't coming to Apple TV any time soon.

The thing is, Amazon ARE working on an Apple TV app, after everyone heard the reason Amazon pulled Apple TVs and Google Chromecasts from sale. It's expected soon.

As for UV, biggest pile of turd ever. I had a few via that, before I realised how limited it was. Also, they've done something that iTunes ever has (despite the people who argue against digital downloads and hate on iTunes specifically use in arguments), which is I've had a couple films removed from my collection.

 

[derekshank]

Hey, I think we found some common ground!...."Amazon and UV aren't coming to Apple TV any time soon."

After that I'm afraid we see things differently but hey, that's ok, message boards would be pretty boring if we all had the same opinions, so let me share my opinion and maybe a fact or 2, what the hell I have a few minutes...

I really think the studios had the right idea I just think they may have been too late...Imagine with all the discs you have, some of them you bought at Walmart, some from best buy, a few from Amazon and so on....now imagine if you had to have a separate DVD player for each of the DVDs depending on where you bought them...what, 5-6 different players? That would suck but that is exactly what we have with the digital movies we buy today. If I buy a DVD it will play on any DVD player....because there is a standard. That is what is needed here. If I buy a digital movie I should be able to play it at any of the storefronts from itunes to M-Go...all of them.

So, they formed the D.E.C.E https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Entertainment_Content_Ecosystem to come up with a standard so we could have interlopy with digital movies, just like DVD. Just about every tech company, electronics manufacturers, and studios joined to vote on a standard. Ultraviolet was formed...Apple and Disney were the notable no shows.
Not pointing my finger at you but, many seem to think UV was brought to us to compete with itunes, but it's just the opposite, UV was brought here not to compete but simply as a standard. All Apple had to do was join. Then every code would work in itunes......you wouldn't need a split library, just use itunes...All your movies would also be available anyplace else too. Vudu has a nice disc to digital feature you could use to convert your discs, and then watch them on itunes. UV doesn't want you switch from itunes, they just want itunes to join so your movies can be viewed any place (the part Apple doesn't like) The ONLY thing UV does is register your purchases in a central data base so you can link your favorite storefront. Ultraviolet doesn't stream, it doesn't download and it doesn't do disc to digital. Those are all features that the storefronts can use to attract us. Make the storefronts compete with better, more features and better UI but, don't try to hold my movies hostage...they are mine, just like DVD.

So when you say UV is the one dictating here, In my opinion it's just the opposite.

You are right and wrong simultaneously. You are right that Apple and Disney were notably no-shows... but omit the reason. One of the primary reasons that UV even exists was an attempt from the movie studios to offer an alternative to iTunes because Apple's power and leverage was growing to a point that made the movie studios very nervous.

This was a direct attempt to weaken Apple's power. So, of course Apple was notably absent. But it is also the same reason that your Amazon movies aren't compatible with your UV library. They are competitors. To think about UV as anything but an iTunes competitor ignores the reason it exists.

All of that to say... this is not terribly unlike the arguments about VHS vs Betamax, or Bluray vs HDDVD. You seem to have chosen the UV side (and possibly a little bit of the Amazon side). I guess I find myself on the Apple side?... although, I think it is all stupid, and mostly just use iTunes because it is the easiest to use with all of my Apple hardware.

We are not talking about different technologies that aren't able to be played on different devices like the previous debates were. We are talking about digital media here and greedy companies who are fighting for leverage. The people who lose out are the consumers who actually spend their money thinking they will own something... which is a big part of why I choose (for the most part) to rip DVDs and Blurays, and mostly avoid all of the stupid DRM stuff in the first place.
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The thing is, Amazon ARE working on an Apple TV app, after everyone heard the reason Amazon pulled Apple TVs and Google Chromecasts from sale. It's expected soon.

I'll just say, I'll believe it when I see it.

I emailed Amazon directly about it, and nowhere in the response did they specifically say they were working on it. In fact, it seemed like they went out of their way to NOT say that thing. Mostly just that they were sorry for the hassle and are doing their best to give Amazon customers a good experience. (I put the full email in the other thread about Amazon Prime).

I don't believe for a second that they are working hard on it. The original rumors were that it would be out almost immediately after the Christmas hiatus. Here we are a month later, and not a peep. I think we can stop looking. It's not coming.

 

[shandyman]

You are right and wrong simultaneously. You are right that Apple and Disney were notably no-shows... but omit the reason. One of the primary reasons that UV even exists was an attempt from the movie studios to offer an alternative to iTunes because Apple's power and leverage was growing to a point that made the movie studios very nervous.

This was a direct attempt to weaken Apple's power. So, of course Apple was notably absent. But it is also the same reason that your Amazon movies aren't compatible with your UV library. They are competitors. To think about UV as anything but an iTunes competitor ignores the reason it exists.

All of that to say... this is not terribly unlike the arguments about VHS vs Betamax, or Bluray vs HDDVD. You seem to have chosen the UV side (and possibly a little bit of the Amazon side). I guess I find myself on the Apple side?... although, I think it is all stupid, and mostly just use iTunes because it is the easiest to use with all of my Apple hardware.

We are not talking about different technologies that aren't able to be played on different devices like the previous debates were. We are talking about digital media here and greedy companies who are fighting for leverage. The people who lose out are the consumers who actually spend their money thinking they will own something... which is a big part of why I choose (for the most part) to rip DVDs and Blurays, and mostly avoid all of the stupid DRM stuff in the first place.
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I'll just say, I'll believe it when I see it.

I emailed Amazon directly about it, and nowhere in the response did they specifically say they were working on it. In fact, it seemed like they went out of their way to NOT say that thing. Mostly just that they were sorry for the hassle and are doing their best to give Amazon customers a good experience. (I put the full email in the other thread about Amazon Prime).

I don't believe for a second that they are working hard on it. The original rumors were that it would be out almost immediately after the Christmas hiatus. Here we are a month later, and not a peep. I think we can stop looking. It's not coming.

It was confirmed by Amazon, to a TV engineer that emailed them. They said might see it in a few weeks, it wasn't definitive, but then it could be delayed by testing, etc. I reckon we will see it by end of March.

 

[derekshank]

If Amazon didn't have an iOS app, this might actually make more sense to argue and seem less petty by Amazon.

Meh. I think this mostly ignores the purpose of the iOS app. It is intended for you to have your library that you purchased on Amazon available when you leave the house. Amazon knows that they need to be compatible with an iPhone if they want a chance to compete with iTunes. 43+% of Americans have iPhones. You can't ignore them and hope to succeed.

The Apple TV? Not so much. The Apple TV has nowhere near the market penetration that the iPhone does. And since the ATV4 is so new, Amazon can really compete here with their new FireTV and hope to win some long term customers... which would benefit them far more than being available on the Apple TV.
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It was confirmed by Amazon, to a TV engineer that emailed them. They said might see it in a few weeks, it wasn't definitive, but then it could be delayed by testing, etc. I reckon we will see it by end of March.

Good if true. But again, I'll believe it when I see it.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I don't think Amazon wants to cooperate with Apple in your living room. They want to replace them.

This whole discussion got me doing a little bit of reading... and back in October of 2014, it was said that Amazon was in talks to allow you to merge your Amazon purchases with UV. 15 months later... and nothing.

Is it just me, or does Amazon put a lot of stuff out there (Amazon groceries, Drone delivery, UV integration, AppleTV support) that never really seems to materialize?
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Hey, I think we found some common ground!...."Amazon and UV aren't coming to Apple TV any time soon."

Yeah.

I did a little reading, and noticed that Amazon's FireTV lacks Google Play, Vudu, and Flixter. I wonder why?

There are not currently any devices that will allow you to access all of your libraries if you have them in UV, Amazon, and iTunes. So the biggest mistake you can make is getting into bed with all of them.

Right now, if you're invested in UV and Amazon, Roku is your best bet. But this can't be called an Apple problem alone... because these same issues exist among all of the devices, since almost all of them are content competitors too.

If Apple TV gets Amazon and Vudu... it will literally be the only device that can support all of your libraries - which is exactly why it will never happen.

 

[tanfan]

About what I expected, but I tried. You are right on one thing though, apple couldn't be allowed to have a monopoly on digital movies so that was part of the reason.....and Apple isn't the only walled garden just the most restrictive one. I like Apple but I don't love them enough to let them hold my movies ransom. My vote (for digital movies) goes with the intention of the D.E.C.E with Ultraviolet. Everybody else can be walled in, or go buy 5 or 6 DVD players if they want.. LOL

 

[derekshank]

About what I expected, but I tried. You are right on one thing though, apple couldn't be allowed to have a monopoly on digital movies so that was part of the reason.....and Apple isn't the only walled garden just the most restrictive one. I like Apple but I don't love them enough to let them hold my movies ransom. My vote (for digital movies) goes with the intention of the D.E.C.E with Ultraviolet. Everybody else can be walled in, or go buy 5 or 6 DVD players if they want.. LOL

I'll give you that Apple is the most restrictive... but that is mostly because they can afford to be. Amazon would love to be that restrictive... but they don't have the hardware penetration to pull it off. If they did, you can bet they would. Practically every move they make looks like an attempt to build an iTunes competitor that functions nearly identically.

Anyway, you seem to think that I'm defending Apple at every turn... when in reality I just understand the motivation for their decisions. The same way that I understand the motivation for Vudu, Amazon, and Sling to avoid the Apple TV. There is no innocent party here. They are all to blame.

We agree on one thing though... it's all bad. I don't have an Amazon or UV library, and I'm not a Sling customer... so I don't experience many of these negative experiences that others have... but we can agree it is bad.

Of course, that is is exactly why I make the decisions I do with my movies. I use iTunes almost exclusively because it is easy... but I'm not walled in. I only have 3 movies that have DRMs, and the moment I feel the need to play any of those 3 movies on a different device, I'll fix that.

You've mentioned that you have a large UV library, some iTunes, and I think you said you're an Amazon user. You may not feel walled in... but you are the guy who needs multiple DVD players. My Apple TV works just fine for my entire library. And all I'd have to do is switch to Plex (something I'm considering anyway) to have my entire library available on Chromecast, Roku, or Amazon Fire. So, I'm not walled in at all.

 

[tanfan]

Actually, you are walled in worse than I am, for whatever it's worth. itunes movies are locked into just itunes with DRM. You can rip your own but, that's illegal, officially. My entire Library (minus a handful in itunes) are registered with UV so I have a few options for playback with potentially more coming. Currently Vudu is the best storefront that is part of Ultraviolet, and it's not bad at all, and D2D is great. So, no I don't need multiple players at all. Using a Roku 3, I can view my library in Vudu, Flixster and M-Go, but I only use Vudu, it's the best one. And as an amazon prime member, I can view all of that on Roku also....
I have listened to many itunes users in other forums who use to do itunes but now have much larger UV collections in Vudu. My only regret is I can't do it on Apple TV but that's their decision, along with whomever, it doesn't matter. We haven't seen new market share numbers for a long time but I'm thinking Vudu with UV has grown a lot, at itunes expense.

 

[off_piste]

I hear you. But again, Apple is not forcing you to do anything.

(The irony here is that UV is being difficult in an attempt to keep people from using Apple products... but all they've done is forced me to buy exclusively through iTunes).

The irony here was too good not to highlight. Sorry.

 

[shandyman]

There are not currently any devices that will allow you to access all of your libraries if you have them in UV, Amazon, and iTunes. So the biggest mistake you can make is getting into bed with all of them.

Actually, the biggest mistake is UV, as I said, I've had a couple of films thru that, which have disappeared from my ownership, despite unlinking/relinking and all sorts. To name one, Green Lantern got pulled (though it's a crap film, my nephew enjoys it weirdly).

A lot of people go mad saying to not use ITunes and to use UV because this will happen to iTunes, not UV, which makes me laugh as the opposite seeks true.

 

[Rigby]

So, they formed the D.E.C.E https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Entertainment_Content_Ecosystem to come up with a standard so we could have interlopy with digital movies, just like DVD. Just about every tech company, electronics manufacturers, and studios joined to vote on a standard. Ultraviolet was formed...Apple and Disney were the notable no shows.

Amazon stayed away too, which means the two market leaders aren't supporting it. The only major storefront supporting it is Vudu (which is #3 far behind iTunes and Amazon). There is also very little support in consumer electronics. Originally it was planned that devices like Blu-ray players and streaming boxes should support the "common file format" for downloaded UV movies, but the format never materialized. At this point digital copies from DVDs and Blu-rays are the only thing that keeps UV alive (but they don't produce significant revenue for anyone). The idea behind UV was good, but the execution is pretty bad.
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Actually, you are walled in worse than I am, for whatever it's worth. itunes movies are locked into just itunes with DRM.

That is true, but personally I feel UV's DRM is much more restrictive than Apple's. You can't download and backup your movies. Some of the provider apps don't allow HD playback on some mobile devices. Travel a lot or want to move to another country? Kiss your UV collection good bye, since all existing UV streaming providers in the US block access from outside the country.

 

[tanfan]

Amazon stayed away too, which means the two market leaders aren't supporting it. The only major storefront supporting it is Vudu (which is #3 far behind iTunes and Amazon). There is also very little support in consumer electronics. Originally it was planned that devices like Blu-ray players and streaming boxes should support the "common file format" for downloaded UV movies, but the format never materialized. At this point digital copies from DVDs and Blu-rays are the only thing that keeps UV alive (but they don't produce significant revenue for anyone). The idea behind UV was good, but the execution is pretty bad.
[doublepost=1453852192][/doublepost]That is true, but personally I feel UV's DRM is much more restrictive than Apple's. You can't download and backup your movies. Some of the provider apps don't allow HD playback on some mobile devices. Travel a lot or want to move to another country? Kiss your UV collection good bye, since all existing UV streaming providers in the US block access from outside the country.

I don't follow the "common file format" as I have little interest in downloading but as I understand it, Vidity is just a wrapper for CFF files. I think you are undervaluing the success of Vudu/uv, but new #s haven't been made public for a long time...The biggest problem with execution was the walled gardens long holdout. On DRM...UV has none. That is part of the individual storefronts. If itunes was UV, you download exactly like you do today...no difference, those features are up to the storefronts. UV just registers your purchase for prosperity, use whatever storefront that has the features you like. People can't seem too figure it out but, all of the storefronts being part of UV would be a HUGE WIN FOR CONSUMERS...right now it's the walled gardens doing what's best for THEM.

 

[shandyman]

I think you are undervaluing the success of Vudu/uv, but new #s haven't been made public for a long time...

There's probably a glaring reason for that, they're probably low. Why else would they suddenly stop releasing them...

UV is flawed simply because it's overly complicated. Different storefronts with different rules. Messy.

 

[Rigby]

I don't follow the "common file format" as I have little interest in downloading but as I understand it, Vidity is just a wrapper for CFF files.

If that is the case, it wouldn't do anything for UV, since Vidity is not integrated with UV. If anything, it seems like a bad sign to me that major UV supporters like Warner are now backing Vidity instead of working on improving UV.

I think you are undervaluing the success of Vudu/uv, but new #s haven't been made public for a long time...The biggest problem with execution was the walled gardens long holdout. On DRM...UV has none. That is part of the individual storefronts.

Well, that's semantics, since there are no UV storefronts that use less restrictive DRM.

People can't seem too figure it out but, all of the storefronts being part of UV would be a HUGE WIN FOR CONSUMERS...

I agree, but it's not going to happen. Therefore UV is of little interest to me (even though I have quite a few titles in my library simply because of UV-only digital copies from Blu-rays that I bought).

 

[derekshank]

Actually, you are walled in worse than I am, for whatever it's worth. itunes movies are locked into just itunes with DRM. You can rip your own but, that's illegal, officially. My entire Library (minus a handful in itunes) are registered with UV so I have a few options for playback with potentially more coming. Currently Vudu is the best storefront that is part of Ultraviolet, and it's not bad at all, and D2D is great. So, no I don't need multiple players at all. Using a Roku 3, I can view my library in Vudu, Flixster and M-Go, but I only use Vudu, it's the best one. And as an amazon prime member, I can view all of that on Roku also....
I have listened to many itunes users in other forums who use to do itunes but now have much larger UV collections in Vudu. My only regret is I can't do it on Apple TV but that's their decision, along with whomever, it doesn't matter. We haven't seen new market share numbers for a long time but I'm thinking Vudu with UV has grown a lot, at itunes expense.

If you think I'm more walled in than you, you didn't read what I wrote.

I told you that I've removed DRM from my library. Illegal? Well, I've already argued that what iTunes and UV do is illegal, so one good turn deserves another.

I don't view it any differently than folks who choose to jailbreak their iPhones. It isn't what Apple intended for you to do, and they might make it difficult... but I'm of the crazy opinion that what I do what my own property is not the business of the person who sold it to me.

All of that to say, I can put my whole library on Plex and it would be available on any device I can think of. That's not being walled in.

As for Vudu, it's much the same as Amazon. That's Walmart's attempt to keep people from using iTunes. Which is the same reason why Vudu isn't available on Fire TV.

People can keep trying to blame Apple exclusively... but it's pretty obvious that all three of these companies are trying to make life difficult for the other. Which means there are only two options that can create a good experience for the end user:

1) Pick one of the three, and never look back... hoping that the one you picked wins; or
2) Disregard this DRM nonsense

I'd like to add that it is my understanding that removing DRM for the sake of exercising fair use is not illegal. What is illegal is sharing or selling it to others once the DRM is removed.

Removing the DRM so that I can back it up or play it on another device I own should in no way be illegal. If it is illegal, I am not aware of any lawsuit that has ever been filed regarding fair use. It has all been about piracy. I'm guessing fair use lawsuits have never happened either because it is clearly legal, or because DRM is on shaky legal ground in the first place, as place shifting of digital media that you own is technically legal.

The legal system has ruled pretty clearly in favor of the consumers with regard to digital books. I'm not sure if that applies across the board for movies or not... but it would stand to reason that it does.

 

[shandyman]

If you think I'm more walled in than you, you didn't read what I wrote.

I told you that I've removed DRM from my library. Illegal? Well, I've already argued that what iTunes and UV do is illegal, so one good turn deserves another.

I don't view it any differently than folks who choose to jailbreak their iPhones. It isn't what Apple intended for you to do, and they might make it difficult... but I'm of the crazy opinion that what I do what my own property is not the business of the person who sold it to me.

All of that to say, I can put my whole library on Plex and it would be available on any device I can think of. That's not being walled in.

As for Vudu, it's much the same as Amazon. That's Walmart's attempt to keep people from using iTunes. Which is the same reason why Vudu isn't available on Fire TV.

People can keep trying to blame Apple exclusively... but it's pretty obvious that all three of these companies are trying to make life difficult for the other. Which means there are only two options that can create a good experience for the end user:

1) Pick one of the three, and never look back... hoping that the one you picked wins; or
2) Disregard this DRM nonsense

I'd like to add that it is my understanding that removing DRM for the sake of exercising fair use is not illegal. What is illegal is sharing or selling it to others once the DRM is removed.

Removing the DRM so that I can back it up or play it on another device I own should in no way be illegal. If it is illegal, I am not aware of any lawsuit that has ever been filed regarding fair use. It has all been about piracy. I'm guessing fair use lawsuits have never happened either because it is clearly legal, or because DRM is on shaky legal ground in the first place, as place shifting of digital media that you own is technically legal.

The legal system has ruled pretty clearly in favor of the consumers with regard to digital books. I'm not sure if that applies across the board for movies or not... but it would stand to reason that it does.

For about 6 months to a year, rippling was made legal in the UK, before they backtracked. Shame.

 

[tanfan]

There's probably a glaring reason for that, they're probably low. Why else would they suddenly stop releasing them...

UV is flawed simply because it's overly complicated. Different storefronts with different rules. Messy.

Having used both enough to know, I can tell you they both work very simply.
[doublepost=1453909338][/doublepost]

If you think I'm more walled in than you, you didn't read what I wrote.

I told you that I've removed DRM from my library. Illegal? Well, I've already argued that what iTunes and UV do is illegal, so one good turn deserves another.

I don't view it any differently than folks who choose to jailbreak their iPhones. It isn't what Apple intended for you to do, and they might make it difficult... but I'm of the crazy opinion that what I do what my own property is not the business of the person who sold it to me.

All of that to say, I can put my whole library on Plex and it would be available on any device I can think of. That's not being walled in.

As for Vudu, it's much the same as Amazon. That's Walmart's attempt to keep people from using iTunes. Which is the same reason why Vudu isn't available on Fire TV.

People can keep trying to blame Apple exclusively... but it's pretty obvious that all three of these companies are trying to make life difficult for the other. Which means there are only two options that can create a good experience for the end user:

1) Pick one of the three, and never look back... hoping that the one you picked wins; or
2) Disregard this DRM nonsense

I'd like to add that it is my understanding that removing DRM for the sake of exercising fair use is not illegal. What is illegal is sharing or selling it to others once the DRM is removed.

Removing the DRM so that I can back it up or play it on another device I own should in no way be illegal. If it is illegal, I am not aware of any lawsuit that has ever been filed regarding fair use. It has all been about piracy. I'm guessing fair use lawsuits have never happened either because it is clearly legal, or because DRM is on shaky legal ground in the first place, as place shifting of digital media that you own is technically legal.

The legal system has ruled pretty clearly in favor of the consumers with regard to digital books. I'm not sure if that applies across the board for movies or not... but it would stand to reason that it does.

If you are using itunes you are more walled in, but it's one of those deals that if you never try to leave you wouldn't notice. Sounds to me like you don't really use itunes though, except as a place to access your rips. As I understand it, it's not illegal to back up your discs, but it is illegal to break the DRM. Don't worry though your secrets safe with me lol.
I've just never been interested in downloading or taking the time to rip discs....streaming works well, no reason to imo. Question, when your travelling do you have access to all your rips? Do you plan ahead and put some on a device? I guess what I like about how I do it is I can access all of mine from anyplace.

Also it's my understanding that chromecast and Amazon's fire box/stick have UV apps. I actually own both but never use them. Maybe I'll fire them up and check again sometime. I still think there is a chance this could all come together, Amazon was rumored to be thinking of joining UV last year, I'm sure if it ever happened Apple would be the last to join. What I'm always shaking my head about, and it seems to come from the "die hard" Apple fanatics (not you but you know the type) that seem to think Apple joining UV would be a bad thing? Perhaps when Ultraviolet started if we had heard "Join Apple Join", from that vocal crowd instead of "Die UV Die", it may have turned out different but that group backs whatever Apple says or does to the death lol.

 

[derekshank]

If you are using itunes you are more walled in, but it's one of those deals that if you never try to leave you wouldn't notice. Sounds to me like you don't really use itunes though, except as a place to access your rips. As I understand it, it's not illegal to back up your discs, but it is illegal to break the DRM. Don't worry though your secrets safe with me lol.

Actually, I think you have it backwards. At least with music and books, it has been deemed legal to remove DRMs for fair use purposes.

Ripping a DVD or Bluray might be ok under the "Space Shifting" argument. That's how it worked with people ripping music CDs - but this may be a different animal - so I'm open to being proven wrong. The real point is, I paid for these movies, so no one is being harmed. I own them, and I'm using them. No one is losing anything here. Perhaps more importantly, no one is coming after me for fair use of my own property.

Question, when your travelling do you have access to all your rips? Do you plan ahead and put some on a device? I guess what I like about how I do it is I can access all of mine from anyplace.

I put a handful of movies on my iPhone when I went to Ireland last year. Since I didn't have access to a good wifi connection over there, that was the only solution regardless.

If I put my library on Plex, I'll have it available for streaming any time anywhere on virtually any device.

Also it's my understanding that chromecast and Amazon's fire box/stick have UV apps.

I'm not sure what all of the UV apps are... but I know Vudu isn't available on FireTV. Which is my primary point.

Vudu(Walmart), Amazon, and Apple are are content competitors. iTunes is on the fewest devices, to be sure... but that is primarily because Apple has the luxury to behave that way. They have been doing this a long time, have a large, committed customer base, and most importantly, have a large enough hardware marketshare to afford to be entirely exclusive.

The behavior of Amazon and Vudu picking and choosing platforms merely proves that they look to behave the same way when they can afford to. So, people can be mad at Apple for the way they behave... and that's fine. But the truth is, everyone is working toward being in Apple's position. Folks are mad at Apple for currently doing what all of their competitors will do the moment they can afford to.

Right now, Amazon and Vudu need Roku as much as Roku needs them... and since they aren't direct competitors for content, it works well enough. If the Fire TV finds enough success, it shouldn't surprise anyone if Amazon content begins to be more exclusive.

So, while I think Apple joining UV would be a good thing... it's never going to happen. And while Amazon was once looking to join UV... I think that ship has sailed as well. Their Prime revenue is growing - so they are more and more capable of being exclusive. So, as Apple's competitors find more success, things will be more divided, not less.

 

[tanfan]

I have no problem with Apple wanting to be exclusive, with everything they do but, not my movies. If digital movies are going to replace the DVD as they are saying...we NEED Ultraviolet imo. If your not someone who collects movies, this doesn't mean anything but to those of us who do, we should absolutely NOT be forced to pick a walled garden to keep our movies in for the rest of our LIVES.....that's a long time...things change. I don't hold Apple on the same pedestal you do, which is probably one reason we see things differently. If I was the studios I would find a way to put pressure on the walled gardens to join. For right now everything works great for me, I have no complaints past not being able to continue using Apple gear.
I'm thinking Chromecast has Vudu and Fire has Flixster, I'll dig them out and check when I have more time.

 

[shandyman]

Having used both enough to know, I can tell you they both work very simply.

Having used both, I haven't had a movie removed from my iTunes collection, but have had a few removed from my UV collection...

I've just never been interested in downloading or taking the time to rip discs....streaming works well, no reason to imo. Question, when your travelling do you have access to all your rips? Do you plan ahead and put some on a device? I guess what I like about how I do it is I can access all of mine from anyplace.

Some UV apps don't do HD, and I've had it where I've gone abroad and I cannot access my collection due to being in another country. Don't have that issue with iTunes or Plex.[/QUOTE]

 

[tanfan]

Having used both, I haven't had a movie removed from my iTunes collection, but have had a few removed from my UV collection...




Some UV apps don't do HD, and I've had it where I've gone abroad and I cannot access my collection due to being in another country. Don't have that issue with iTunes or Plex.

[/QUOTE]

I see now your from the UK....I have talked with several from over there on message boards and the consensus is, Ultraviolet doesn't work well over there. You need better places to access than what's available. When Vudu gets over there....well a whole new ball game. On the movie removal.....UV is the only service that guarantees your permanent rights to a movie. I have heard of cases where there was a temporary glitch or something to get corrected, both in itunes and UV but in all cases movies were restored. I have over 1400 movies plus TV series that are all UV and can attest, it works very well and very easy past the initial setup, and I have never had to call tech support...it just works.